Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Cryogen wrote:
I know it isn't a popular opinion and most will disagree with me, but to me, the lamest faction is Orks. I've never liked them. To me they do not fit the setting at all. They are a joke race, and not a funny one at that. In a sci-fi universe, you have these primitive barbarians with no goals beyond just fighting. And they are actually considered a serious threat! To me, it feels like they only reason they are even in the game world is that they were grandfathered in from original editions, back when the game was less 'serious' in tone. Now, they no longer belong.

Even their physical appearance is out of place. When I look at any artwork, or even a game in progress on the tabletop, it looks like someone has accidentally placed a character from some other setting by mistake.

I can understand if someone dislikes the Orks, but by no means are they out of place in the setting.

Chaos Daemons as a stand a lone army. I absolutly hate this idea and wish it purged from all existance. I love them when rolled into the Chaos codex, but as a stand a lone they just have no place.

Second would be Newcrons. I hate the direction of their fluff.

And third. IG. In a setting of super men and aliens and this that and the other, just regular disposable joe is just not that interesting. The only time I ever even contemplated an IG army is if I could do an entire army (including tanks) using Valkyria Chronicles tanks and guys as proxies.

 Jayden63 wrote:
Chaos Daemons as a stand a lone army. I absolutly hate this idea and wish it purged from all existance. I love them when rolled into the Chaos codex, but as a stand a lone they just have no place.

Second would be Newcrons. I hate the direction of their fluff.

And third. IG. In a setting of super men and aliens and this that and the other, just regular disposable joe is just not that interesting. The only time I ever even contemplated an IG army is if I could do an entire army (including tanks) using Valkyria Chronicles tanks and guys as proxies.

Without the normal guys the "super heroes" would be normal. Personally i hate any army that isnt average joes because, well its utter crap really

IG only really annoys me when the hypocrisy train starts.

'What do you mean, my Guardsmen carving apart those Nobz in melee is unfluffy? It's very fluffy! No, Guardsmen should not be removed, they are the weak average joe guys that get stomped by everyone so they have a place in the setting oh wait no they don't get stomped they wreck everyone oh wait yes they are stomped-'

Ad nauseam.

Make up your minds...

You have a point there. My best take on the IG (whom I love) is "the Guard are the ordinary humans in a setting of superhumans who get stomped and stomped and keep on coming. Sometimes this means they steamroller the superhumans. Sometimes, not so much. But you've got to admire the cojones they have to even try."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Or the Sisters, who are, in their basis, a gimmick made into a faction.

As a huge fan of the Sisters, I gotta say you have a point. I think the Sisters have transcended this origin, but the way GW handles the Sisters has had Unfortunate Implications from the start.

As I recall, they first showed up in a single sentence in Rogue Trader -- before the Ecclesiarchy had been invented -- as a kind of genetic purity police, swooping down on people with no notice, testing their DNA, and arbitrarily executing them/dragging them away. So there's your "girls are scary," "girls are tattletales/scolds," and "any powerful woman must be an emasculating bitch" stereotypes right there.

Then they become "the girl army": hello, Smurfette Principle! In fact it's even central to their origin story, with the their very existence being to exploit a loophole in "no men under arms" wording of the Decree Passive demilitarizing the church. And they do this without losing the girls are scary/emasculating stuff. They even add a militarized Madonna/Whore Complex: most of them are virginal warrior-nuns, fully clad (albeit in sexualized armor), but those who "fall" are literally stripped nearly naked. BUT now the Sisters can actually fight -- and fight pretty darn well -- instead of just arrest helpless victims, they have powers derived from sheer force of pious will (whether it's "magic" or not is very much left open), and the Joan of Arc imagery bursts into full fleur-de-lis flower. And by now, they've arguably evolved into the best of humanity (at least in 40K military terms): the paradigm of what ordinary, genetically unmodified, non-cyborg humans can become with the best possible training, indoctrination, and equipment.

GW's still struggling with how to handle them, and it sure as hell needs to give them more units, but the Sisters have gone beyond a gimmick now.

Current fluff, Necrons. Terribly written.

If the fluff were tamed and made more sense, and a more understandable and non-mental baseline were created...I'd say Tau were the most out of place.

Actually, the SoB doesn't really correspond to the smurfette principle. That refers to there being one female character in a predominately male cast. The SoB are an all female force in a setting where it's not unheard of to have female fighters (Eldar, IG, Tau).

It is true that they are the "girl army", but you can't really say all of the armies are guys, which is necessary for the smurfette principle to work. Unless you limit the scope to the Imperium, and even then that's mainly because GW still hasn't worked out how to model female IG.

I think if I fielded a SOB army I would use quite a few spehse maurine models, my logic being that there is no real reason for form fitting power armor. The actual SOB figures I would use would be elites, becuase they have "master crafted" gear of course. This would also save a good deal of money.

I agree with the earlier poster on Orks, but it is not that they are out of place, its that they are not taken seriously enough. I think GW could make Orks much darker and more intimidating.

- J

 Jayden63 wrote:

And third. IG. In a setting of super men and aliens and this that and the other, just regular disposable joe is just not that interesting. The only time I ever even contemplated an IG army is if I could do an entire army (including tanks) using Valkyria Chronicles tanks and guys as proxies.

Yup, because in WH40K fluff you cant see mere human fighting aliens and...oh wait...

Sorry mate, but read the fluff better next time, those average joes are still important part of IoM military activities. And for some people they are veeeery interesting - mainly because of those super men and aliens - and fact they can die when you stab them thousand times with pointy toothpick

For me is sometimes irritating when gamers try to boost their homemade fluffy guardsmen "they are super-recon-shock-sniper specialist and they are famous for killing this daemon and that Exarch and my company commander wrote his name into Magnus' heart!" (and still, they die as easily as my poor footsloggers)

 necrondog99 wrote:
I think if I fielded a SOB army I would use quite a few spehse maurine models, my logic being that there is no real reason for form fitting power armor. The actual SOB figures I would use would be elites, becuase they have "master crafted" gear of course. This would also save a good deal of money.

I agree with the earlier poster on Orks, but it is not that they are out of place, its that they are not taken seriously enough. I think GW could make Orks much darker and more intimidating.

- J

The Orks technically could be a very intimidating race, but they aren't "serious" because that's what GW wants them to be. They've said time and time again that 40k isn't a competitive game (or at least implied as much), and making the Orks into a far more serious race would sort of ruin the image GW tries to put out of a game for kids.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Actually, the SoB doesn't really correspond to the smurfette principle. That refers to there being one female character in a predominately male cast. The SoB are an all female force in a setting where it's not unheard of to have female fighters (Eldar, IG, Tau).

It is true that they are the "girl army", but you can't really say all of the armies are guys, which is necessary for the smurfette principle to work. Unless you limit the scope to the Imperium, and even then that's mainly because GW still hasn't worked out how to model female IG.

It looks like a male IG with a slightly more streamlined face and hands.

Because flak armour makes you a flat chest whoever you are.

 Selym wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Actually, the SoB doesn't really correspond to the smurfette principle. That refers to there being one female character in a predominately male cast. The SoB are an all female force in a setting where it's not unheard of to have female fighters (Eldar, IG, Tau).

It is true that they are the "girl army", but you can't really say all of the armies are guys, which is necessary for the smurfette principle to work. Unless you limit the scope to the Imperium, and even then that's mainly because GW still hasn't worked out how to model female IG.

It looks like a male IG with a slightly more streamlined face and hands.

Because flak armour makes you a flat chest whoever you are.

Yep. Not sure if GW has made any cadians with those features though.

I guess you can say, however, that there are female Steel Legion soldier models. Sadly, GW decided that no one likes SL, and so has stopped selling them.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Actually, the SoB doesn't really correspond to the smurfette principle. That refers to there being one female character in a predominately male cast. The SoB are an all female force in a setting where it's not unheard of to have female fighters (Eldar, IG, Tau).

It is true that they are the "girl army", but you can't really say all of the armies are guys, which is necessary for the smurfette principle to work. Unless you limit the scope to the Imperium, and even then that's mainly because GW still hasn't worked out how to model female IG.

It looks like a male IG with a slightly more streamlined face and hands.

Because flak armour makes you a flat chest whoever you are.

Yep. Not sure if GW has made any cadians with those features though.

I guess you can say, however, that there are female Steel Legion soldier models. Sadly, GW decided that no one likes SL, and so has stopped selling them.

HQ:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440247a&prodId=prod1160040a
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440247a&prodId=prod1130430
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440247a&prodId=prod1140113

Troops:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440249a&prodId=prod1140104
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440249a&prodId=prod1130547
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440249a&prodId=prod1130548
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440249a&prodId=prod1140055

And then paint the tanks w/steel legion drab.

 SisterSydney wrote:

As a huge fan of the Sisters, I gotta say you have a point. I think the Sisters have transcended this origin, but the way GW handles the Sisters has had Unfortunate Implications from the start.

When will hotlinking to tvtropes become a banable offense? Please stop the madness! I had things to do today, you jerk.

 Selym wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Actually, the SoB doesn't really correspond to the smurfette principle. That refers to there being one female character in a predominately male cast. The SoB are an all female force in a setting where it's not unheard of to have female fighters (Eldar, IG, Tau).

It is true that they are the "girl army", but you can't really say all of the armies are guys, which is necessary for the smurfette principle to work. Unless you limit the scope to the Imperium, and even then that's mainly because GW still hasn't worked out how to model female IG.

It looks like a male IG with a slightly more streamlined face and hands.

Because flak armour makes you a flat chest whoever you are.

Yep. Not sure if GW has made any cadians with those features though.

I guess you can say, however, that there are female Steel Legion soldier models. Sadly, GW decided that no one likes SL, and so has stopped selling them.

HQ:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440247a&prodId=prod1160040a
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440247a&prodId=prod1130430
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440247a&prodId=prod1140113

Troops:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440249a&prodId=prod1140104
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440249a&prodId=prod1130547
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440249a&prodId=prod1130548
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440249a&prodId=prod1140055

And then paint the tanks w/steel legion drab.

Huh, thought they discontinued them. Hadn't seen them in GW stores since ~2006.

Huh, that's scary. 10 metal SL soldiers is almost en par with 10 plastic IG. There's only a $6 USD difference.

And 10 SL soldiers in metal is over half the price of 10 SoB soldiers in metal. 0_o

The Sisters have been a very expensive army to have for a very long time now.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Sisters have been a very expensive army to have for a very long time now.

I knew that, but I had always thought their price was consistent with the other metal armies.

But this...yikes

Back to OP, fluff wise, i'd have to say marines.

2 main reasons :
- Non coherent plot armor.
I get the emperor. He's always mighty and unkillable. Same for primarchs. But marines have a history of being dragged between supermen in tank armor being able to bring a whole system on their knees by just showing up (5 guys in a space canoe would suffice) and, at other times, Terminators get mauled like IG penal legion.
I'd like coherency, like a middle between canon fodder and super heroes.

- Poor writing
"And he of legendary bearing drew his ancient and mighty sword, inscripted with the deeds of a thousand heroes before him. Only this gesture was enough to fill the room with his aura of heroism and nobility." And that's a marine. When a captain or, Emperor forbid, a chapter master walks in the room, humans for miles just go drooling on their uniforms.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I guess you can say, however, that there are female Steel Legion soldier models...

Because there's no way to tell gender under the facemask and body armor? Or did GW actually market "female Steel Legionnaires" at some point?

And they are one of my favorite sets of IG models too. If only because GW is kinda meh at modeling human faces (and I can't paint them for gak).

Omegus wrote:When will hotlinking to tvtropes become a banable offense? Please stop the madness! I had things to do today, you jerk.

Yes, TvTropes Will Ruin Your Life. I should totally stop linking to pages like Zettai Ryouiki or Tank Goodness, but I can't help myself because of my Chronic Villainy.

As for the guard liken them to ants in a way. Highly effecient killing machine where they over whelm "big super bugs" with ease and move on to the next task.

And as for women in soldiers gear, they still have different hip shapes and facial features. Let alone the way the stand and run is a lot different. Its hard to find a real picture of a women in the military because from all the accounts i have read women in the army have short hair, cant find many pictures with that so no real photo comparrissons. But boobs arent all that makes a female look like a female. Its incredibly blatant that all the GW IG are male by stance and shape. Not that its a big deal anyways.

Anyways to the guy who was talking about the guard in a negative way , remember the most deadliest creatures are generally the smallest. The smallest often kill you in the most painful ways too. The guard are the same in my opinion.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
IG only really annoys me when the hypocrisy train starts.

'What do you mean, my Guardsmen carving apart those Nobz in melee is unfluffy? It's very fluffy! No, Guardsmen should not be removed, they are the weak average joe guys that get stomped by everyone so they have a place in the setting oh wait no they don't get stomped they wreck everyone oh wait yes they are stomped-'

Ad nauseam.

Make up your minds...

Sometimes they get lucky, more often than not, they don't.

 SisterSydney wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I guess you can say, however, that there are female Steel Legion soldier models...

Because there's no way to tell gender under the facemask and body armor? Or did GW actually market "female Steel Legionnaires" at some point?

And they are one of my favorite sets of IG models too. If only because GW is kinda meh at modeling human faces (and I can't paint them for gak).

Because you can't tell

Though knowing GW, they would probably try to market female Steel Legionaires. They would be $10 more, limited edition, and their chests would be approximately 0.5mm further out than usual

I too am terrible at painting human faces. The reason why all of my armies are non-human, really.

Do I need to make this terrible joke (again) about my Kriegs(wo)men

Yes. I don't know it.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I guess you can say, however, that there are female Steel Legion soldier models...

Because there's no way to tell gender under the facemask and body armor? Or did GW actually market "female Steel Legionnaires" at some point?

And they are one of my favorite sets of IG models too. If only because GW is kinda meh at modeling human faces (and I can't paint them for gak).

Because you can't tell

Though knowing GW, they would probably try to market female Steel Legionaires. They would be $10 more, limited edition, and their chests would be approximately 0.5mm further out than usual

I too am terribly at painting human faces. The reason why all of my armies are non-human, really.

I'm terrible at it, so my IG cadians all worship Be'lakor (who is black in colour), who by my fluff made them more like him. Blackened. So's I can just slap the basecoat on, paint the guns + armour, and then call it a day.

 Selym wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I guess you can say, however, that there are female Steel Legion soldier models...

Because there's no way to tell gender under the facemask and body armor? Or did GW actually market "female Steel Legionnaires" at some point?

And they are one of my favorite sets of IG models too. If only because GW is kinda meh at modeling human faces (and I can't paint them for gak).

Because you can't tell

Though knowing GW, they would probably try to market female Steel Legionaires. They would be $10 more, limited edition, and their chests would be approximately 0.5mm further out than usual

I too am terribly at painting human faces. The reason why all of my armies are non-human, really.

I'm terrible at it, so my IG cadians all worship Be'lakor (who is black in colour), who by my fluff made them more like him. Blackened. So's I can just slap the basecoat on, paint the guns + armour, and then call it a day.

I like your style

TVTropes is nowhere near as bad as this collection of Inquisitorial secrets, things Mankind was not meant to know. Things that must be secured and contained, for the protection of mankind.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Or the Sisters, who are, in their basis, a gimmick made into a faction.

What gimmick are you referring to? Is it that they're all women?

Actually, thinking about it, I'll edit that second part out.

Biker Nuns with Big Guns.

 Psienesis wrote:
Biker Nuns with Big Guns.

Bikers? Oh, are you referring to that old comic with biker nuns?