Canoness Awesomeness, Palatine Standard-Bearers, Alternative Acts of Faith, Choristers, & Relics

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**Ovion**

Ok, most of those are about rightly costed (not always for the right math in my brain, but it works out about right, so I cba to go through differences that work out the same).

Master Crafted is a 10pt upgrade.
I'll try and find out where it lists it for corroberation, but I distinctly remember it being priced at that.

That said, the Targetter of Arablla is still probably only worth 55-60pts.

Ruleswise, I'd honestly be tempted to say change all of those 'rules apply to specific squad' bubbles to 'Choose up to 2 units of X. So long as the model with this wargear remains on the table, the chosen units of X gain Y'.

Apart from the Targetter.
I'd make that'd be fine with 'all models within 6" gain Master Crafted on shooting attacks'. Call it 60pts, you'll be fine.

YAY vagueries!

Edit - Vagueries and rollover!

Edit, edit - And now this thread is actually subscribed to, maybe I'll remember it's here and make more coherent statements in the future.

Edit, edit, edit - Why is it 4am? O_o

**Lynata**

Since you requested an opinion on the fluffy side of things ...

Love the Palatine being back in. Still not a fan of the jump-pack Canoness.

I also have to say that I'm not much of a fan of the laud hailer idea, for it'd make the Dialogous redundant. But maybe that was your goal? Could just be a matter of interpretation, but I just cannot picture a Canoness preferring to spend time with an oversized megaphone instead of doing her job and commanding her troops via voxlink orders.
Or, in other words, I feel that inspiring speeces and litanies dispensed by battlefield leaders should be circumstancial rather than an ongoing action. If you want to have someone doing it all the time ... that's exactly why you have recorded messages, or a Sister Dialogous with a huge scroll of lyrics.

Furthermore, I'm still opposed to one-off Acts of Faith (this kind of breaks with multiple decades of tradition); if it were up to me I would look for ways to restore the Faith system present in the WD 'dex.

As for the relics, I really like the idea of Order-specific items, especially the focus on their founding saints. That being said, I feel they could be oriented more to how the sacred matriarchs were described in the WD Liber Sororitas, which did actually mention a few pieces of equipment:

Saint Dominica has the byname "Bearer of the Grail of Ages", and though this could be taken in a metaphorical sense, there's no reason it could not be an actual chalice, befitting the Order's name.

Saint Katherine is known as "The Shield Bearer" and carried Saint Dominica's Praesidium Protectiva, so this is what I would offer as a relic. Also, it seems the Iron Halo of her armour is already worn by Celestine.

Saint Silvana's relic should be her death shroud, as this has a critical meaning for the Sisters of her Order and is "one of the Sisterhood's most holy relics".
Also, I maintain that a jump-pack Canoness is unfluffy on the basis of her station and role as a leader on the ground, though this is arguably a matter of interpretation and something you ought to feel free to dismiss.

With Saint Lucia, it may be that you've been looking more towards the description of her Order rather than its founder, for whereas the nature of her Order's Sisters is focused on her martyrdom, Lucia's own description does not mention her to be any more pious or masochistic than her fellow matriarchs. Unfortunately, it also does not mention any specific item associated with her ... unless you wish to drag Vandire's flensed and polished head out of the Vault of Origins, as it had been recovered by her, and Lucia is often depicted holding it in her left hand, an upright sword in the other.

For Saint Mina, I feel it would be better if her relic was a weapon, given her description as "a dark and brooding Sister, quick to anger and deadly in combat". Her Order's very iconography is testament to her personality - a rose with prominent thorns.

Lastly, Arabella, "The Liberator" ... I think you had the right idea in regards to gun accuracy, but instead of a targeter (a weapon add-on) I would rather make it a specific ranged weapon. There are no ranged weapon relics so far in the armoury, so this might make a nice addition, and to me it just feels odd to keep a targeter but not the gun it was attached to.
This could be partially circumvented by saying the original weapon was destroyed and only the targeter could be saved, but this still doesn't change that it's just a weapon attachment, which somehow feels ... lesser.

Also, since we're talking relics, I feel that in addition to the Blade of Admonition available by RAW, someone ought to add the Axe of Retribution and the Flail of Chastisement as well. No reason why only one of the three most well-known Blessed Weapons should be represented, after all.

A personal pet peeve of mine is that I don't like how comparable equipment has different effects, though this is tradition for 40k. Personally, I'd rather see a "modular" system - in case of your relics, this means one bonus effect for the character's wargear, and one morale effect for the surrounding troops. The morale effect should be the same for every relic, because they're all equally valuable holy items, whereas the wargear bonus should obviously depend on the individual item itself.
But, as I said, that's not how 40k tends to work, so you are closer to the original rules here than I am.

MWHistorian wrote:I want a giant spear for a jump pack canoness.

Please, please, please ...

**SisterSydney**

Good points all. To address some of them specifically, be it with thanks, rebuttals, or questions:

From Ovion:

Ovion wrote:Master Crafted is a 10pt upgrade.

Huh. But if one re-roll is worth 10 points, what is Twin-Linked worth??

Ovion wrote:Ruleswise, I'd honestly be tempted to say change all of those 'rules apply to specific squad' bubbles to 'Choose up to 2 units of X. So long as the model with this wargear remains on the table, the chosen units of X gain Y'. Apart from the Targetter. I'd make that'd be fine with 'all models within 6" gain Master Crafted on shooting attacks'. Call it 60pts, you'll be fine.

I like 6" bubbles, since that requires more tactical maneuvering -- and requires your leaders to actually lead the specific group of units they're buffing -- but your way is simpler.

Also I'm trying to make each Relic buff a specific unit type rather than all units, so each of the six Sisters squad types is associated with one relic and its Order.

From Lynata:

Lynata wrote:Love the Palatine being back in. Still not a fan of the jump-pack Canoness.... I maintain that a jump-pack Canoness is unfluffy on the basis of her station and role as a leader on the ground, though this is arguably a matter of interpretation....

I know. Lots of people love her, though, and I can see her still acting as a leader, either jumping from crisis point to crisis point across the field or leading a formation of multiple Seraphim squads, e.g. in a massive Deep Strike.

Lynata wrote:I also have to say that I'm not much of a fan of the laud hailer idea, for it'd make the Dialogous redundant. But maybe that was your goal? Could just be a matter of interpretation, but I just cannot picture a Canoness preferring to spend time with an oversized megaphone instead of doing her job and commanding her troops via voxlink orders. Or, in other words, I feel that inspiring speeces and litanies dispensed by battlefield leaders should be circumstancial rather than an ongoing action. If you want to have someone doing it all the time ... that's exactly why you have recorded messages, or a Sister Dialogous with a huge scroll of lyrics.

Point taken. I hate, hate, hate the Dialogus model, but I see why combat leaders wouldn't have time to be reciting inspiring words continuously, so how about just giving the laud hailer to the Chorister (my priest replacement)?

Lynata wrote:Furthermore, I'm still opposed to one-off Acts of Faith (this kind of breaks with multiple decades of tradition)

I ain't thrilled either, and before the digital codex came out, I proposed something combining White Dwarf & Witch Hunters (on which you commented), but now the 6th ed 'dex is out, I'm resigned to working with it -- or at least around it by adding options -- instead of overwriting it.

Lynata wrote:As for the relics, I really like the idea of Order-specific items, especially the focus on their founding saints. That being said, I feel they could be oriented more to how the sacred matriarchs were described in the WD Liber Sororitas, which did actually mention a few pieces of equipment:

Aha, cool. Fluff you know that I have never seen.

Lynata wrote:Saint Dominica has the byname "Bearer of the Grail of Ages", and though this could be taken in a metaphorical sense, there's no reason it could not be an actual chalice, befitting the Order's name.

Cool. Not sure how this works as a combat buff, though. Well, I guess it could inspire everyone to do the same thing my Gauntlet does -- maybe they all drink from it before the battle in some kind of kung fu communion so they get super hand-to-hand skills, even (but really what's going on is psychological/subconscious psyker powers, not a miracle). Ideas, anyone?

Lynata wrote:Saint Katherine is known as "The Shield Bearer" and carried Saint Dominica's Praesidium Protectiva, so this is what I would offer as a relic. Also, it seems the Iron Halo of her armour is already worn by Celestine.

Weirdly, the new digidex says Celestine's armour was anointed with Katharine's blood, not actually worn by her. Anyway this isn't an Iron Halo attached to your armor, it's one that was ripped off some poor Marine Captain and used to beat people with....

....which seems more fitting Katharine's savage character than a defensive shield (unless you can bash people in the face with it). Anyway, if she carried Dominica's shield, wouldn't the Praesidum Protectiva be a relic of Dominica?

Lynata wrote:Saint Silvana's relic should be her death shroud, as this has a critical meaning for the Sisters of her Order and is "one of the Sisterhood's most holy relics".

I like the targeter idea, but good point. What would be the appropriate in-battle effect?

Lynata wrote:Lucia's own description does not mention her to be any more pious or masochistic than her fellow matriarchs. Unfortunately, it also does not mention any specific item associated with her ... unless you wish to drag Vandire's flensed and polished head out of the Vault of Origins, as it had been recovered by her, and Lucia is often depicted holding it in her left hand, an upright sword in the other.

Well, the new codex does say "“The Order’s founding saint, Lucia, was the most penitent of Dominica’s companions" -- but the idea of Vandire's skull as a Relic is absolutely fething awesome, let's totally do that.

Lynata wrote:For Saint Mina, I feel it would be better if her relic was a weapon, given her description as "a dark and brooding Sister, quick to anger and deadly in combat". Her Order's very iconography is testament to her personality - a rose with prominent thorns.

Again, good idea. Ideas for appropriate effects?

Lynata wrote:Lastly, Arabella, "The Liberator" ... I think you had the right idea in regards to gun accuracy, but instead of a targeter (a weapon add-on) I would rather make it a specific ranged weapon. There are no ranged weapon relics so far in the armoury, so this might make a nice addition, and to me it just feels odd to keep a targeter but not the gun it was attached to.
This could be partially circumvented by saying the original weapon was destroyed and only the targeter could be saved, but this still doesn't change that it's just a weapon attachment, which somehow feels ... lesser.

I didn't want to restrict either Arabella or her successors to a specific weapon,

Lynata wrote:Also, since we're talking relics, I feel that in addition to the Blade of Admonition available by RAW, someone ought to add the Axe of Retribution and the Flail of Chastisement as well. No reason why only one of the three most well-known Blessed Weapons should be represented, after all.

Oooh -- what are the Axe and Flail? Maybe they're Mina's and Lynata's Order Relics respectively....

**Ovion**

SisterSydney wrote:Good points all. To address some of them specifically, be it with thanks, rebuttals, or questions:
From Ovion:
Ovion wrote:Master Crafted is a 10pt upgrade.
Huh. But if one re-roll is worth 10 points, what is Twin-Linked worth??

Ovion wrote:Ruleswise, I'd honestly be tempted to say change all of those 'rules apply to specific squad' bubbles to 'Choose up to 2 units of X. So long as the model with this wargear remains on the table, the chosen units of X gain Y'. Apart from the Targetter. I'd make that'd be fine with 'all models within 6" gain Master Crafted on shooting attacks'. Call it 60pts, you'll be fine.
I like 6" bubbles, since that requires more tactical maneuvering -- and requires your leaders to actually lead the specific group of units they're buffing -- but your way is simpler.

Also I'm trying to make each Relic buff a specific unit type rather than all units, so each of the six Sisters squad types is associated with one relic and its Order.

~snip stuff from Lynata~

For Twin-Linked it's a tricky one... as a flat granted or upgrade to an unspecific weapon, it's 5-10pts depending where you look,
But then if you're looking at other things, it's either +1/2 or +1/3 of the weapons cost to Twin Link it... so it's very confusing.

But whenever I've seen Master Crafted, it's been a flat 10pts, so it's very strange.

As a general rule, I go +50% of the weapons cost for Twin-Linked though.

**Furyou Miko**

Lynata's Order?! I knew you liked her, Sister, but not that much :p

I have to admit, maybe it's just the headache, but I'm drawing a blank on the axe and the flail. ><

**SisterSydney**

That was perhaps a Freudian slip. Lynata should have her(?) own order, if only an Oder Minor.

**Lynata**

SisterSydney wrote:Point taken. I hate, hate, hate the Dialogus model, but I see why combat leaders wouldn't have time to be reciting inspiring words continuously, so how about just giving the laud hailer to the Chorister (my priest replacement)?

Much better!

SisterSydney wrote:Aha, cool. Fluff you know that I have never seen.

Actually, I didn't know that - let me fix that when I get back home from the office.

I thought the Liber was fairly widespread by now, at least amongst dakka's section of the Sisterhood!

SisterSydney wrote:Cool. Not sure how this works as a combat buff, though. Well, I guess it could inspire everyone to do the same thing my Gauntlet does -- maybe they all drink from it before the battle in some kind of kung fu communion so they get super hand-to-hand skills, even (but really what's going on is psychological/subconscious psyker powers, not a miracle). Ideas, anyone?

Love the drinking ritual! Not sure about the exact effect, tho.

Do an Indiana Jones reference and have it cure wounds?

It's really tough to think about what could actually fit without knowing more. I believe it has been said that the grail in the Order's iconography represents the knowledge imparted on Dominica by the Emperor Himself - perhaps this could somehow be applied to a relic by this name, meaning that anyone drinking from it would be affected on a mental level.

The Necromunda rulebook mentions a drug called "Spook" which is basically a psychic stimulant. Perhaps the Grail of Ages is repurposed and badly understood archaeotech converting water (humidity sucked out of the surrounding air, thus the chalice "miraculously" slowly refilling itself when left undisturbed for some time) into a substance with somewhat similar effects, lending the Sisters preternatural senses and even granting them an instinctive, subconscious mental connection where they truly fight as one, each Sister sensing what the other sees even when not looking into that direction etc.

I feel that it would be fitting to attach a downside to this, though - taking the bonus to Deny The Witch away from them as they unknowingly expose themselves to the latent psychic energies unleashed by the Grail.

SisterSydney wrote:Weirdly, the new digidex says Celestine's armour was anointed with Katharine's blood, not actually worn by her. Anyway this isn't an Iron Halo attached to your armor, it's one that was ripped off some poor Marine Captain and used to beat people with....

Huh, gonna need to read up on the new 'dex again (same thing about Lucia's penitence, I must've totally forgotten that) - but I know it is still called "Armour of St. Katherine", and the original background had Celestine take it from the matriarch's tomb.

Also not sure about Astartes gear being an SoB relic.

SisterSydney wrote:....which seems more fitting Katharine's savage character than a defensive shield (unless you can bash people in the face with it). Anyway, if she carried Dominica's shield, wouldn't the Praesidum Protectiva be a relic of Dominica?

You've got a point, but personally I'm focusing on Katherine's byname as what really identifies her amongst the six founding saints. Plus, the Praesidium is the only item officially associated with the character thus far - other than the stuff Celestine stole, that is.

SisterSydney wrote:I didn't want to restrict either Arabella or her successors to a specific weapon

*nod* I can see the reasoning behind that, though the other weapon relics such as the Blade of Admonition are proper weapons in their own right as well, instead of "just" attachments. Matter of preferences, I suppose; to me it just doesn't "feel as awesome" if Arabella's relic is a scope, compared to the others. Though in some grimdark way, perhaps it'd actually fit to 40k as a whole.
That being said, it's not like Arabella's successors (including those controlled by the player) would be forced to wield that weapon in battle. In the end, it's just another option from the armoury. Whether it's taken to the field depends on the individual Canoness, and its absence from a list could be fluffed with all manner of explanations ranging from "it's too important" to "I'm not worthy". None of the relics should be an automatic thing, after all.

But .. matter of opinions!

SisterSydney wrote:Oooh -- what are the Axe and Flail? Maybe they're Mina's and Lynata's Order Relics respectively....

I'm not sure they actually received any background aside from their names, though I will investigate! I know I *can* send you their artworks, if you want.

Also, lol @ Freudian slip. It's appreciated.

Speaking of Minor Orders - the Liber actually mentions that the Valorous Heart has its origins in a bodyguard detachment for the Ecclesiarch expanded into a full Major Order in M36, rather than being built from the ground up. It was a neat detail that I either didn't register or had forgotten until I just re-read the article last night.

**Mr Morden**

Lots of cool ideas - love the idea of Order specific Relics

The Grail idea - need to be careful not to stray into Blood Angel Vampire land I think.......The Spook idea is interesting but not sure Combat Drugs fit the proscribed lifestyle etc of the Sisterhood?

Prefer that perhaps the cup provides Holy Water to anoints Sister – giving a bonus to Deny the Witch Rolls or similar or if we are keeping the current Act of Faith rules (which I like) – perhaps a bonus to the roll? Or a straight LD bonus.

The Targeter – the obvious one is to Ignore Cover  Markerlight stylee

The Flail – +1 S, AP3 Power Weapon with Shred

The Mace – +2 St AP4 Power Weapon with Blind, Concussive,

The Axe - +1 S, AP2 Power Weapon with unwieldy, Soul Blaze

**Lynata**

Mr Morden wrote:The Spook idea is interesting but not sure Combat Drugs fit the proscribed lifestyle etc of the Sisterhood?

Oh, I'd say it would be super-super-proscribed - if anyone knew what that relic actually does. I'm not entirely sure the Sororitas would have a problem with combat drugs in general, but it's safe to say that anything psychic is taboo and heretical.

There are times where I feel it might be appropriate to debunk and undermine various factions in 40k, especially the Imperium, simply because it makes the setting more dystopic. Of course, this must be done in a way that doesn't change in-universe perception, so these ideas are pretty much limited to supposed truths behind veils of secrecy, or simply stuff that has been forgotten throughout the ages.
Kind of like machine spirits are hinted at really just being lobotomised brains or silly superstition, depending on the item in question.

I entertained similar ideas for Celestine just being a Thorian hoax, or the Emperor actually being long-dead and the Astronomican being maintained solely by the psyker tithe. Just a few little "what if" twists.

In short, as far as the Sisters are concerned, the Grail would be a miracle just like their Acts of Faith. In reality, however, it is an archaeotech device dating back to the Dark Age of Technology, recovered from Vandire's vaults at the end of the Age of Apostasy. It draws moisture from the air to slowly refill itself, but the insides of the chalice are laced with a strange fungus/bacteria/virus (intentional? coincidence? you be the judge) which, when the water is drunk, bestow certain abilities on the user.

... I still feel I should add an Indy reference, though.

Perhaps it could be a double-use item. Instead of the drug effect, it could act as a 3+ FNP (healing) you can use once every turn until you fail the test (representing the Grail being empty now ... or rather a one-use item with a 2+ FNP?), or its contents could be hurled at daemonic entities and corrupted beings to cause damage (rapid aging), all representing the "water" acting differently depending on whether it comes into contact with a pure human being or a body tainted by the Warp. The 2nd effect is kind of limited, but given that the first option would always come in handy, I don't feel it'd make the relic useless unless facing a specific army - it simply adds another option.
Outside the battlefield, the chalice's healing properties would mimic the effects of juvenat treatment, being able to take or give life, and literally being a Grail of Ages.

Just an idea off the top of my head, mind you!

**SisterSydney**

Indiana Jones is not a natural fit for 40K ... but then neither are Harry Potter and Firefly, and I borrow from them in my fanfics all the time....

**SkavenLord**

I agree with Lynata's idea for the grail as a double use item. Would it be overpowered if it worked like regeneration? (+1 W on a success, stops working if it fails).

As for using it as a weapon (well... if we're using the grail like this) maybe something like a grenade? If we limit to it only damaging daemons, it kind of removes this possibility. What if it's more like a damage bonus to daemons? (ex. S 3 for non-daemons, S 5 for daemons)

**Furyou Miko**

Indiana Jones is totally a natural fit for 40k.

An Indie expy would be an excellent base to build a Pronatus character from, for example.

Personally, I think that the Chalice could have a substance that increases the perceptions and reaction time of its drinkers - and because of the ritual effect of sharing its contents, the Sisters subconciously channel it into reading each others and the enemies' movements and moving to cover them all - which comes out as a universal +1 to hit in close combat, and -1 to hit from enemies, as long as there are three or more members of the squad remaining.

**Lynata**

SisterSydney wrote:Indiana Jones is not a natural fit for 40K ... but then neither are Harry Potter and Firefly, and I borrow from them in my fanfics all the time....

Pfshh, we are talking about a setting whose creators thought "Umberco Eto" would be a cool name for a Daemon Hunter...

Also, technically it is only referencing the Indiana Jones IP's interpretation of a "real" legend - that of Jesus Christ, which is already present in the form of the God-Emperor of Mankind and the whole "he suffered for your sins" schpiel that's part of the Imperial Creed.
Hm, thinking about it, maybe link the Grail of Ages to the Emperor, too, to complete the link. That is, if you are going with those effects.

Anyways, I now find it hard to decide between the options mentioned thus far, liking both the melee combat hivemind bonus, as well as the one about an alternate healing/damage effect. Both would work nicely, I think.

Regarding a potential use as a grenade, perhaps one could look to the old Tears from the 2E Codex:

Tears of the Emperor [15 pts]
There are many stories of statues of the Emperor and other icons of the faith weeping blood-like tears. These tears are collected in ornate crystal bottles, and they are a potent weapon against the forces of Chaos.
The phial can be thrown just like a grenade and uses a 2" blast marker. Any daemon affected takes a wound on a D6 roll of 4+ and receives no saving throw for its daemonic aura. One use only.

Speaking of old stuff, I dug up the newest descriptions and rules for the Axe and the Flail, too, from the Chapter Approved list shortly preceding the WH Codex. Turns out that they, just like the Blade of Admonition, are more or less "mass-produced" (or, well, not-unique) relics, which is probably why the 3E Codex grouped them all together under the Blessed Weapons term. For example, here you can see Saint Orlanda's Blade of Admonition (kinky grip!).

Axe of Retribution [20 pts]
An Axe of Retribution is modelled upon the Axe of Chalcydon that was carried by Saint Jason when he crushed the Eldar on Huale. It has a massive double-bladed head on which are etched the holy words of the Imperial Creed. An Axe of Retribution must be wielded in both hands, and so may not be combined with an additional close combat weapon for an extra attack. An Axe of Retribution counts as a power fist in all respects.

Flail of Chastisement [10 pts]
This lethal weapon is barbed with many hooks, which move continually around the wielder transcribing an arc into which opponents dare not advance. It must be used with both hands and so may not be combined with another weapon for an extra attack. A model with this flail attacks normally but reduces the number of attacks of each enemy in contact by -1 (to a minimum of 1).

Lastly, here is the picture I promised - this one is from the Inquisition Illustrated Guide, though I feel I've seen it in WD before:

Spoiler:

PS: also sent you a transcript of the Liber Sororitas, SisterSydney

**SisterSydney**

Thanks, lots of good stuff that I must stop myself from reading because I have to go to bed.....

So the "Blade of Admonition" was originally a generic Blessed Weapon that became a unique Relic in 6th, much like the Book of Saint Lucius?

**Lynata**

Not quite - it was a named weapon in the 2E Codex and the CA list, together with the Axe of Retribution and the Flail of Chastisement (with at least the axe being described as being a copy, see above).

Then, when the 3E Codex hit, they were all grouped together into "Blessed Weapon", basically becoming examples of how a player could apply this term to a semi-custom piece of wargear.

Now, we have the Blade of Admonition back as a named relic, but the Axe and the Flail have gone missing...

**SisterSydney**

Lots of neat ideas and information. I almost certainly can't work in every cool "magic item" into this set of relics, but I am keeping notes for Cool Sisters Stuff more generally.

**Troike**

SisterSydney wrote:
The six Major Orders Militant of the Adepta Sororitas don't get the equivalent of Space Marine Chapter Traits, but they should.

Apologies for OT, but that likely won't happen. See, the Marines getting chapter tactics meant that their supplements had to focus on individual Companies within Chapters, since the rules and fluff for whole Chapters had already been done in the main Marine codex. That's how GW justified it, anyway. So without Chapter Tactics equivalents, any supplements that will hopefully exist someday would focus on whole Major Orders rather than just small parts of Major Orders. Which would be better, as the Major Orders are really in need of more fluff.

But yes, individual relics for each Major Order is the ideal mid-point between chapter tactics equivalents and zero distinction between Orders.

**SisterSydney**

Yeah, that's my call too. Furyou Miko had some great ideas for (effectively) Order Tactics, but I just don't see any but the most accommodating opponents agreeing to let you have that for free.... hence the Relics as a compromise.

Also GW seems to be big on turning things that were generic wargear in earlier editions into Relics in this one.

**SisterSydney**

I've revised some of the Order Relics based on everyone's excellent suggestions -- sometimes just changing names and fluff, sometimes rewriting rules.

[EDITED after a night's sleep to simplify the rules...and edited AGAIN to make sure each Relic gives the wearer the signature ability of that Order's favored unit's Act Of Faith, eg Mina is associated with Dominions so her relic grants Ignores Cover, Arabella with Retributors so hers grants Rending, etc.]

In brief:

Ebon Chalice (St. Dominica): The Grail of Ages (60 points). Furious Charge & Rage on Canoness & her SCS, Rage on Celestians within 6". (Same rules, new fluff).

Valorous Heart (St. Lucia): The Skull of Vandire (55 points). Fearless Canoness with FNP(3+); FNP(5+) on her squad & all Repentia within 6". (New fluff and new rules).

Argent Shroud (St. Silvana): The Shroud of Silvana (60 points). The flashing silver gives the Canoness a Blind attack in melee and her shooting gains Shred. She and all Seraphim withn 6" may failed Ld tests, including AOF. (New fluff and new rules -- I am really uncertain about costing...)

Bloody Rose (St. Mina): The Pillar of Fire (60 points). A melta with Ignores Cover and Gets Hot. Canoness may Scout. Canoness, her unit, and all Dominions within 6" gain, in effect, Eldar Battle Focus (shoot & run in same phase). (New fluff and new rules).

Sacred Rose (St. Arabella): The Light Infallible (60 points). Canoness's shooting weapon counts as Rending and Twin-Linked; her squad and all Retributors within 6" count shooting attacks as twin-linked if they fire at the same target as the Canoness (the targeter projects a visible beam of light) and may reroll Ld tests EXCEPT Acts of Faith. (New fluff and rules -- again I'm very unsure about costing).

Detailed fluff & rules for the five relics that have changed follow below, in spoilers as before to prevent Wall Of Text.

Spoiler:

**SisterSydney**

Okay, I ended up editing the above post a LOT and fixed Saint Katherine's relic to make her a super-Battle Sister with preferred enemy:

*

The Broken Halo: 55 points
The fiercest of the Sisterhood's founders, Katharine ripped the iron halo from a Space Marine champion she slew in the battle for the Ecclesiarchal palace and slew several of his comrades with its spikes. Even after the Sisters made peace, Katharine refused to return her bloody trophy. Her Order of Our Martyred Lady and its offshoots are infamous even among Sisters for the determined fury of even their rank and file. While the halo's force field has never functioned since Katharine tore it loose as her trophy, its spikes inflict gaping wounds, and its mere presence on the battlefield makes the Battle Sisters more unyielding than ever.
The Broken Halo of Saint Katharine counts as a power axe. Its wielder gains the Preferred Enemy (everything) special rule; she and all Battle Sister Squads within 6" gain And They Shall Know No Fear.

[Design notes: I love this bit of backstory I made up for Katharine.... She's such a raging bitch, and all of us deserve her wrath. The fluff for her Order speaks of their determination but, unlike any of the other Big Six, doesn't suggest a buff for any particular unit type - so Furyou Miko suggested the rank-and-file Battle Sisters.
Costing: Power axe: 15 points. Preferred Enemy for Canoness: 10 pts. ATSKNF for the Canoness (which gives it to her squad too) and (on average) two BSS within 6": 30 points. Total: 55 points.]

**Lynata**

Well, my opinion on the targeter and the halo still stand, but I have to say that I like the idea of the shroud as a tabard a lot, in spite of how creepy it is. Also, kudos to the names of the melta and the targeter relics; I'd say you do have a good hand for coming up with appropriate/suitable designations. The descriptions themselves likewise follow the right style.

I won't comment on the specific rules as I don't have sufficient practical experience with 6E yet, though I will say that the Gets Hot melta is a nifty idea.

**SisterSydney**

Thanks. I still love the halo though. I think Saint Katherine taking it as a trophy from a dead Marine and using it to spike his comrades in the face captures the "feth you, Astartes, you think you're such hot sh*t" mentality of many Sisters -- and many Sisters players.

**AtoMaki**

Well, I can't really comment these changes other than saying that S4 T4 Sv2+ Sisters are pretty darn wicked (obviously

) and I seriously hope that GW will never turn the SoB into an elite high-tech strike force.

And to contribute something, here is a cool unit idea:

Furia / 90 points / HQ choice

WS 5 / BS 4 / S 3 / T 3 / W 2 / I 4 / A 2 / Ld 10/ Sv 3+ / infantry (Character)

Wargear:
- Power armour
- Bolt pistol
- Chainsword
- Frag and krak greandes
- Rosarius

Special rules:
- Act of Faith (The Spirit of the Martyr)
- Independent Character
- Martyrdom
- Powerful Orator (12" Ld bubble)
- Shield of Faith
- Zealot

Can take a jump pack - 20 points
Can take melta bombs - 5 points
May take items from the Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons and Ecclesiarchy Relics sections of the wargear list.

She is basically a Sororitas Chaplain, a slightly more reliable melee support than the Ministorium Priest. Also, the look on your opponent's face is priceless when you kick in a 3+ FnP for your 20 strong Sister blob in melee

.

**SisterSydney**

Yes, she does sound brutal.... probably more than 90 points of brutality, honestly. But I'm not the costing meister. Ovion, white courtesy phone please!

Also, I take it Furia is a Special Character, not a generic title for a SoB chaplain-equivalent?

Finally

S4 T4 Sv2+ Sisters are pretty darn wicked

Wait, nothing I wrote up would give them T4, would it? S4 you do get from Furious Charge, Sv2+ from artificer armour (which only the Canoness can get), but I thought I'd carefully stayed away from a toughness boost.... Is there a special rule I'm misreading?

**AtoMaki**

SisterSydney wrote:

Wait, nothing I wrote up would give them T4, would it? S4 you do get from Furious Charge, Sv2+ from artificer armour (which only the Canoness can get), but I thought I'd carefully stayed away from a toughness boost.... Is there a special rule I'm misreading?

Some three-four months ago we had a huge "Goodbye 40k" campaign in my gaming club. In that campaign, we had a random event where the Special Snowflakes Order appears to purge some heretic/xeno. When this event kicked in the Imperial player could exchange his army for the Special Snowflakes Order armylist. Now, this army list was absolutely brutal like every Sister (yep, even the bog standard Battle Sister) had S4/T4/Sv2+. They made my decked-out Tau bend over twice (out of the two occasions when I had to fight with them) in the course of the campaign.

So yeah, my note on the S4/T4/sv2+ Sisters was purely anecdotal, sorry for the confusion

.

The Furia is not a special character. In their fluff, Furias are stop-gap solutions for Orders without priestly support (the Order "promotes" its most charismatic and most zealous Sisters to act as priests) or Sisters who have spent some time outside of the Order Militant and their experiences kind of pushed them a little bit too far.

**SisterSydney**

Aha. I remember you mentioning those uber-Sisters now.

**SisterSydney**

Looks like this thread is about done, but here's one last thing: the Seraphic Bodyguard. I realize just giving the standard Sororitas Command Squad jump packs doesn't work that well because it requires so many fiddly changes, so instead a Jump Pack Canoness can choose super-Seraphim with 2 attacks, because awesome:

Seraphic Bodyguard Squad: 100 points
For each Canoness with a jump pack, you may take a Seraphic Bodyguard Squad instead of a Sororitas Command Squad. Like a Command Squad, a Bodyguard does not use a Force Organization Slot.
Seraphic Bodyguard: WS:4 BS:3 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:3 A:2 Ld:9

Spoiler:

**Psienesis**

Hmmm...

The Canoness-with-Pack gives me an idea. A relic Jump Pack that provides for the Canoness (and this does make her a beatstick.... sometimes, you gotta lead from the front!)

"Upon Wings of Fire" : On the turn she arrives via Deep Strike, the Canoness gains +1 S and +1 A, and gains the Smash SR.

.. in fact, you could have a couple different fancy Jump Packs. One that doesn't permit scattering, one that jets down with such force before you place the model you place a small blast template and deliver a S-something hit to any model under the template... some JSJ packs for her and the SCS...

**SisterSydney**

Those are neat ideas... I need to start a whole "awesome Sororitas wargear ideas" thread for this and other things people have suggested.

**Psienesis**

I'm still trying to come up with a "Crosius of Command" item that acts as a Power Maul and, also, a Power Ruler that adds +Move (or something similar) to nearby units....
.... or maybe make it an alternate bit of Wargear for the Repentia Mistress, costing 1A, or just not letting her get her Charge bonus.

Really, I'm just trying to come up with an in-universe Power Ruler for my Nuns with Guns.