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Tried looking to see if someone has already hit this issue (I'm sure someone has), but search wouldn't work.

Been thinking about scratch building a titan for my tau forces, modifying the warhound scout titan as a template. I want it to be approximately the same size as a warhound, but more closely resembling a cross between a riptide and a devilfish. I want to keep with the suit theme that Tau is fond of (xv8s, xv88s, xv9s, xv 104s, etc...) and have something that can bring some fun hurt to the enemy, but I don't want to buy and field space marines or IG to get these awesome titans. This is what I had in mind.

Visually something similar to this, but more Tau-esque.


Reduce front armor to 13, HP to 8, and BS to 3. Tau is generally more frail than imperial equivalents, and I want to represent this in line w/ Tau stats.

Remove the void shield and replace it w/ a 5++ from a shield generator. Tau tech is more reliable than imperial equivalents, but usually at the cost of strength.

Instead of different guns for each hand, both arms will be the same twin linked, and one weapon system on the back also twin linked.
Arms will be variants of vulcan mega-bolter. Instead the tau titan will fire 6 TL S8 ap 3 missiles that ignore cover.
The back will have two twin linked heavy railguns with no submunitions.
Also playing with the idea of making it a drone carrier/transport, being able to drop 6-8 drones off on the field for extra points

Suggested point cost will be somewhere around the 750-800 ballpark, as it has more firepower than a tigershark and warhound, but is slightly weaker than a warhound to counter the extra firepower.

Strengths
Heavy single target damage
TL to counter BS3, common stats and tech for tau units
5++ more long term consistent than void shields
Can benefit from buildings and terrain for cover, rather than fly over them
Possibly carrying drones makes extra protection when enemy models get close

Weaknesses
Being a walker makes model open to more shots and wounds than a tigershark
No void shields means that every shot has a chance to penetrate the model
No templates means no real anti-infantry ability against large groups
Not as fast or maneuverable as a flyer
Weaker av and hp than a warhound will make it the weakest titan on the battlefield

Well, ignoring the fact that a titan is completely opposite to how the Tau wages war... (the Riptide gets a pass since it can actually be one of the fastest non-flyer things on the tabletop, and it could most likely do an orbital insertion by its loansom from the look of the thing)...

I would totally call it an "XV888"

The fluff behind it might be something along the lines of a heavy gun command barge type deal. An experimental weapon system for crisis commanders to lead apocalypse size forces across a global battlefield. Even the great Puretide would get messed up by a salvo of shots from warlord titan; this is the Tau's answer to keeping their more esteemed and battle proven commanders alive on the front lines, bringing the hurt to the non-believers of the Greater Good.

 dementedwombat wrote:
Well, ignoring the fact that a titan is completely opposite to how the Tau wages war... (the Riptide gets a pass since it can actually be one of the fastest non-flyer things on the tabletop, and it could most likely do an orbital insertion by its loansom from the look of the thing)...

I would totally call it an "XV888"

Actually you might hypothetically end up with something a little more like a Revenant in terms of being big, shooty, and equipped with a Titan-scale jump pack as far as Tau Titans go. Take the Revenant as a baseline, pump the armour, get rid of the holofields, and give it Manta/Tiger Shark super-railguns instead of pulsars and you wouldn't be too far off.

Don't take a revenant as a base line. It's broken.

So, this one has no S: D? Just 6 ignore cover s8 ap3 shots and 2 TL Railgunz + Drones? No super mobility and exceptional defence? Give it 6 structure points and 500 pts is a good price for it even in regular games. Even in friendly ones.

 koooaei wrote:
Don't take a revenant as a base line. It's broken.

So, this one has no S: D? Just 6 ignore cover s8 ap3 shots and 2 TL Railgunz + Drones? No super mobility and exceptional defence? Give it 6 structure points and 500 pts is a good price for it even in regular games. Even in friendly ones.

The Revenant is broken in the wrong environment, it's a symptom of Escalation, not a fundamental issue with the model itself, which is fine in Apocalypse games (two Lynxes get the same guns, the same defenses, better maneouvrability, and a lower profile to avoid getting shot for over a hundred points cheaper than the Revenant).

I do have to ask, are we planning a Tau Titan assuming it's a contemporary of the Knight Titans designed to be at least semi-playable in standard sized games or are we designing it assuming it's a Scout Titan on par with the Revenant and the Warhound built for Apocalypse?

Besides, it'd be logical to add a variant of riptide's Nova reactor. But don't make it as op as on a riptide.

For example, on a roll of 3+ 6 s8 ap3 become 6 s8 ap2 and railgunz become ordnance. But on a roll of 1-2 your weapons don't get any benefits but "Gets Hot!" and you'll have to make a 4+ save not to loose a structure point if a 1 on to-hit is rolled.

The upcoming Robotech: Tactics game should have a fairly sizable MAC-II style mini . . .

 AnomanderRake wrote:

The Revenant is broken in the wrong environment

Serpent spam is also not broken when you play vs other cheezy armies. But it's broken in any other case. Does it make a serpent spam non-broken?

Depends on what you want to get. If you want a highly competitive force that's gona face revenant titans and warhound titans - you got to do more. S: D ranged weapons, and voidshields. If you want to use it in friendly games and in games with restriction: "No super-cheeze" - current rules are exactly what you want.

 koooaei wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

The Revenant is broken in the wrong environment

Serpent spam is also not broken when you play vs other cheezy armies. But it's broken in any other case. Does it make a serpent spam non-broken?

Depends on what you want to get. If you want a highly competitive force that's gona face revenant titans and warhound titans - you got to do more. S: D ranged weapons, and voidshields. If you want to use it in friendly games and in games with restriction: "No super-cheeze" - current rules are exactly what you want.

The "wrong environment" is standard-sized games as opposed to Apocalypse games. I don't need a super-heavy to have Destroyer-strength weapons in Apocalypse, I don't need Tactical Squads to run fifty Hammernators, et cetera. So. Are we designing this assuming it's going to be played with Escalation in standard-sized games or assuming it's only going to be played in Apocalypse games?

The railguns are the heavy variants carried by tigersharks and mantas, but without the blast template option. This is strictly for apoc games, we try to avoid all superheavies in regular games in my area. It should also be mentioned that we allow invuln saves against d weapons here too, so that shield isn't completely useless

I'd recommend hijacking the Revenant's Titan jetpack concept, if only to keep this in character with other Tau battlesuits.

I think you'd have to consider what would motivate the tau to make such a titan. namely, fighting on a planet of giants, such as squiggoths or giant tyranid monsters. I'd give it decent manoeuvrability, like a giant jump-pack. I'd give it a pair of giiant plasma-guns, which would give it some effective pew-pew small blast attacks, but with a reasonable amount of shots. I'd then give it a bigger gun on the back, which is designed for destroying one thing. move or fire, a single shot that causes D3 SD hits on the model it hits. ineffective against infantry, can't fire the arm weapons too, making it a versatile piece of kit but not an overpowered destroy an entire army in one turn kinda superheavy. I have an image of the back guns being vertical, like the broadsides in dawn of war: dark crusade. imagine the thing darting around, harrassing the monsters and then suddenly it stops, the gun flips down and BOOM! as the smoke clears & the monster falls, it's already darting around again.

 some bloke wrote:
I think you'd have to consider what would motivate the tau to make such a titan. namely, fighting on a planet of giants, such as squiggoths or giant tyranid monsters.

I'd actually think they'd develop something like this to take on heavy armour somewhere they can't easily deploy Tiger Sharks or Mantas for some reason, likely inclement weather, anti-aircraft defenses, or magnetic-field-technobabble-whatnot, if you think about what they'd need a ground-based heavy railgun for. I do like the alternate-fire-modes system, maybe as a Scout Titan-scale thing it's got two backpack Heavy Railguns it can't fire if it moves and arm-mounted missile, burst, or plasma weapons it can fire after moving.

The dual-mode weapon is a cool idea. And I think it's entirely fitting that the faction heavily inspired by Japanese anime should have a giant fighty robot thing....

Revenant Titan probably IS a better baseline for a Tau Titan than the brute-force-over-finesse approach of the Imperium. Costing is very, very tricky. I got some good help on costing homebrewed superheavies in this thread, including one based on the Warhound, and then there's a homebrewed jump-jet Knight Titan you might find inspiringly anime.

 koooaei wrote:
Don't take a revenant as a base line. It's broken.

So, this one has no S: D? Just 6 ignore cover s8 ap3 shots and 2 TL Railgunz + Drones? No super mobility and exceptional defence? Give it 6 structure points and 500 pts is a good price for it even in regular games. Even in friendly ones.

Heavy railguns (not heavy railrifles which are what broadsides have) are strength D; the same weapons as are mounted on the tigershark and manta.
110" range, S: D AP1, Ordnance 1, Destroyer (Solid Shot)
110" range, S:7 AP3, Ordnance 1, Apocalyptic Blast 10" (Submunition)

The OP specifically mentions no submunition though.

Love the idea of jetpack maneuverability with the option of heavy shots when not moving and dual mode weaponry. Fits fluff across the board and would be loads of fun to play w/o creating something broken. This model is really designed to tackle opposing superheavy walkers and the tyranid monstrosities stomping across the battlefield.

As for the reasoning behind it, how can you field a manta or a fleet of tigersharks in the lower levels of a hive city, or in the depths of an underground necron tomb-city? AnomanderRake hit the nail on the head w/ his reasoning. I think its logical that the Ethereal Caste would eventually call for something like this from the Earth Caste, and I'm sure they already have ideas and prototypes just waiting for large scale deployment.

Tell me this doesn't scream Tau