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Hello people, i love Sisters of Battle, but some little points in the fluff dont suit me very well. Their ruleset is very bad, but easily avoided with "count as space marines".

So what i want to know (specially from older fans of the Sisters) is how "customizable" a order can be... How much its "acceptable" to them to avoid the classical Eclersiarchy ways, worshiping the Emperor in some other forms?

I have this fluff ideia about an order who praise bees (or wasps, maybe in an evolved shape) as an example of organization and dedication to a cause, and so they "honour" this social insect with Iconography and stuff like that (like many astartes chapters do with other animals). The order would also incorporate some additional stuff from certain "nature worshiping religious" (specially the "struggle for balance") and stuff like that (i want them to be as far from the chatolic paradigm as possible). The problem is i dont want them to be corrupted by chaos, they are loyal to the Emperor, and humanity.

How strange would that be?

Also, i like the ideia of "fleet based" military forces. Do the Adeptar Sororitas have such forces?

(PS: this is an evolution of an old ideia about "female space marines", im just trying to avoid those "non acceptable fluff")

Very cool visuals. As for whether the background: There is no canon, and the Imperium of Man is an insanely diverse place, so you can justify almost anything -- though people you play may not like it. That said, the established material (as I've learned from folks much better versed in it than I) does make clear
- The Ecclesiarchy adopts local religious practices, iconography, and even mythology all the time. (Like Catholicism in Latin America). A Sororitas Order that reveres social insects -- who, by the way, almost all female -- seems just fine.
- The Sisters depicted in the fluff so far have been much less diverse than the Marines, and their codex has way fewer options, but that doesn't mean other kinds of Sisters aren't out there. (Hence my obsessive homebrewing).
- The Ecclesiarchy has some kind of fleet, albeit much less powerful than the Navy, so a ship-based Minor Order Militant is entirely plausible.

Eh...

Well, it's your army, do what you like, but if you're looking for published-fluff support on a non-Space Catholic version of the Sisterhood... it doesn't exist.

The Sisters train at one of only 2 places in the entire galaxy, San Leor and Ophelia IV (or VI, depending on who's writing you read, but one is noted as a typo). This leads to their orders all being basically the same, as having only two training Convents means that training style, combat doctrine, methods of observance, etc, etc, simply cannot deviate all that much. They aren't raised locally. For example, The Order of the Sisters Fabulous (on Planet AnyHive, IOM) will not collect local girls into their order, teach and train them, and then raise them to be Sisters of the Order of the Sisters Fabulous. It's just not how the faction works.

And while the Imperium *is* a staggeringly diverse place... that doesn't mean anything when the way the SIsters get members is so uniform and regimented. Regardless of the kinds of cultures or planets they come from, the girls who go onto become Sisters of Battle are all raised by the Schola Progenium, and are marked at a young age for development and training into the Sisterhood, and are taken at, like, 12, by a Sister Superior for their final training, being inducted into an Order (in a ceremony on Holy Terra, no less!) at the age of 17.

So while having a non-Space Catholic SoB army is certainly possible, there's no studio fluff to support doing so. We've never been introduce (or even had a mention) of a Sororitas order that doesn't do things "by the book". It's just not what the fluff behind the army supports.

I like your ideas but it may interest you to look into the Steel Cobras, Astartes who fell foul of a Cardinal because they worshipped the Emperor as an animal totem. That's not quite the same as an insect but certainly close enough that it could draw suspicion; even more so would be a link to Genestealers where cults they have formed often use the imagery of insects and 'the hive', often supposedly as veneration of the Emperor but in reality a siren call to the Tyranid Fleets. I guess so long as you have no bald Sisters you should be okay!!

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence! The (very few) examples we have of Sisters' bios have them training as Novices on Ophelia or Terra, then being inducted into the Sisterhood on Terra, but the descriptions of the SIsterhood as a whole in the codex and the BRB don't seem to mention this at all, so we have no idea if there are Minor Orders that do something different.

And even if you're trained on Terra, you're trained to shut up and salute when you're inducted into an oddball Minor Order.

CANONESS: Welcome to the Order of the Busy Bee! Here's your black-and-yellow power armour, your power stinger, and your beekeeper's hat.
NEW SISTER: What.
CANONESS: Shut up and eat your honey.
NEW SISTER: Yes'm.

Firstly, thank for the awsers...

Secondly: well, the order would pretty much follow the pattern suggested by Sister Sydney, and i dont really discard the possibility for them to be corrupted.

The point here is: they dont accept themselves as corrupted, and do what they do for the Emperor.

So, they dont worship bees, they just honour the animal and use it as a focal point of their teachings: "thou shall be servant and humble as the worker bee".

Their iconography would be most a local stuff (just like other orders would use roses, chalices or wings in their banners and icons). I do imagine to go as far as replacing the =][= with something else (but not the Fleur'de'lis, that is just to fun).

And if this ideia is really strange, i will have to end up corrupting my girls to the chaos forces (as i alredy plan to use codex space marines anyway, it would be a small step for codex chaos space marines). I just dont want to...

Don't do corrupted Sisters. Just... don't.

That's as bad as Fem-Marines.

 Psienesis wrote:
Don't do corrupted Sisters. Just... don't.

That's as bad as Fem-Marines.

It's not because it's canon.

Psienesis: i have this feeling too...

But i dont know exactly why. As ThePrimordial pointed out, it is even canon, but just dont sound right...

No, it isn't "canon". There are no Fallen Sisters in studio publications. None.

There are the reanimated corpses of dead Sisters being used by Daemons, yes.

 Psienesis wrote:
No, it isn't "canon". There are no Fallen Sisters in studio publications. None.

There are the reanimated corpses of dead Sisters being used by Daemons, yes.

Wasn't there that one group of sisters who venerated Slaanesh?
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Miriael_Sabathiel
Boom shaka laka.
The only faction to never fall to Chaos are Grey Knights.
And at least they have the excuse of being talented controlled psykers. I'll take that over faith as a shield.

Well, i really think that GK "incorruptible will" is a marketing stuff... even in fluff.

Lets face it: maybe no GK have ever been declared "corrupted", but half of their Special Characters are very possibly corrupted guys who disguise themselves very well...

Wait!

You are saying that it is an actual official material with a Slanesh corrupted order of Adeptas Sororitas?

 The Dwarf Wolf wrote:
You are saying that it is an actual official material with a Slanesh corrupted order of Adeptas Sororitas?

Dark Millennium Warhammer 40,000 Collectible Card Game and some short story based on the card.

And with no one caring which material takes precedence anything you read can be 100% true, brazen propaganda or outright falsehoods prepared by the writer for whatever reason.

So, its better to dont touch that subject.

Damn, i like SoB for their models, practically only. Their fluff is kinda boring to me, i just wanted a funny way to use the models, something who dont remember me of saint inquisition, misogeny and catholic nonsense...

But them, slanesh corrupted SoB are worse...

And i actually conviced myself that Female Astartes are even worse (yep, took some time).

Was hopefull that maybe "rogue orders" could be found around more troubled parts of the Imperium, but regular order are rare enough.

Maybe i should stick with an old ideia, and just make a female skitari guard who borrow to much from Astartes and Sororitas armoury... Well, for those, the concept of "social insect behavior" could be very plausible, as all the hexagons, and the lack o =][= iconography...

Don't touch corrupt Sisters with a stick, a very long stick. There is...regrettable fluff about a single Sister turning to Slaanesh. As for Primodial, Isn't Draigo insinuated to be Slaanesh's bitch when he looked upon his face and hasn't the Changling instilled a seed of doubt into a Grey Knights heart? Never fallen to chaos, maybe, but they can certainly be corrupted.

Fem-Marines are...questionable. Just run pure Sisters if you like the models, and run whatever fluff you want. You don't need to justify your army to the opponent, only yourself. I for one would love to hear about the exciting adventures of the Order of the Busy Bee.

I'll point out that Miriael, "that one Chaos Sister", originated from a third-party card game and subsequently a short story by Dan Abnett. Never appeared in studio fluff either.

Anyway, as for the main topic... Yeah, deviant SoB Orders don't really exist, given they all come from the same places, go through the same brainwashing and mostly have the same cultures. I'm pretty sure that this has always been the case across all examples of canon, including non-studio sources. As far as I'm, aware, never been an SoB Order that's deviated so wildly as what's suggested in the OP.

"Deviated widely" seems a bit harsh. All the OP has said is
- they use the bee as a metaphor for humble, selfless service and employ it extensively in their iconography. There are real-world examples of Catholics doing the same thing.
- they're fleet-based. No precedent in fluff, but we know the Adeptus Ministorum has naval assets, so there's no reason some local authority somewhere in the galaxy wouldn't decide to space-base a Minor Order as a rapid-reaction force.
- he's using Codex:Space Marines and the entire army counts-as Astartes. Sisters with T:4, access to Land Raiders & psykers, and with no Faith are actually the biggest fluff issue here.

 The Dwarf Wolf wrote:
So what i want to know (specially from older fans of the Sisters) is how "customizable" a order can be... How much its "acceptable" to them to avoid the classical Eclersiarchy ways, worshiping the Emperor in some other forms?

I have this fluff ideia about an order who praise bees (or wasps, maybe in an evolved shape) as an example of organization and dedication to a cause, and so they "honour" this social insect with Iconography and stuff like that (like many astartes chapters do with other animals). The order would also incorporate some additional stuff from certain "nature worshiping religious" (specially the "struggle for balance") and stuff like that (i want them to be as far from the chatolic paradigm as possible). The problem is i dont want them to be corrupted by chaos, they are loyal to the Emperor, and humanity.

Incorporate bees into your iconography? No problem whatsoever. Changing the religious practice of your Sisters to bee veneration? That is very, very strange.

I don't really have a problem with the fleet-based (might just be possible) and poxying (that's just a personal choice in how one wants to play the game). But I still view the use of bees in worship and other similar things as deviating from the fluff. Again, Sisters do all come from the same harsh regime, so are all going to have the same mode of worship. Combined with their fanatical devotion to staying faithful and their own isolationist tendancies, they're unlikely to stray all that much from their usual culture of worship. They might come to revere new saints and such, but I'm fairly certain that their main ways of worship would stay pretty consistent.

Also, I find using real-life Catholicism a bit shaky in these scenarious, given that the Imperial Creed is not an an exact duplicate of Catholicism and is, of course, itself fictional.

As an addendum, that's not to say that one cannot do a bee-based Order. If your heart is set on it, then go for it! You make the best bee-based Battle Sisters that you can make. Though if your question is if such an Order fits in with 40K canon, then the answer is, unfortunately, no, not really.

ThePrimordial wrote:
Wasn't there that one group of sisters who venerated Slaanesh?
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Miriael_Sabathiel
Boom shaka laka.
The only faction to never fall to Chaos are Grey Knights.
And at least they have the excuse of being talented controlled psykers. I'll take that over faith as a shield.

Sabathiel is a character from a third-party product, not published in studio fluff. If you want to bring in all the RPGs and stuff, then, sure... but then we get into the wild blue yonder of fan-fiction, and that's when you get really scary.

Troike wrote:
As an addendum, that's not to say that one cannot do a bee-based Order. If your heart is set on it, then go for it! You make the best bee-based Battle Sisters that you can make. Though if your question is if such an Order fits in with 40K canon, then the answer is, unfortunately, no, not really.

That's basically my view on it. It's the OP's army, s/he can do what they like with it. It's just not supported in published material.

About the codex: i have a hard time accepting that i must pay 1 less point for a Space Marine with S3 and T3, with weaker special rules (whose i have to pass a test to use).

Also, i think that Sister should have access to land raiders (at least the reedemer pattern, that scream Sororitas).

And finally, i dont want to field psykers...

Im starting to give up. I think i will just box the few Sister Models i have around, and wait for the future.

Well, the good news on that front is that we're coming to the end of the round of comprehensive revamps. After Orks, the only remaining factions that haven't gotten a new codex are BA, SW, DE, SoB, and debatably GK and Necrons (they were obviously designed with elements of 6th edition in mind). Within a year or so we should get their long-awaited complete rework with plastic models. Of course, by that point, we'll probably be on 9th edition, where the gameplay consists of totaling up all your GW receipts (official retail or online store only, FLGS is cheating), rolling a d6 while shouting "FORGE THE NARRATIVE" as loud as you can, and then comparing your total outlay + d6 to your opponent.

 Bludbaff wrote:
After Orks, the only remaining factions that haven't gotten a new codex are BA, SW, DE, SoB, and debatably GK and Necrons (they were obviously designed with elements of 6th edition in mind).

Sisters have received a new codex. It was only a stupid digital leaflet, but still.

 The Dwarf Wolf wrote:
About the codex: i have a hard time accepting that i must pay 1 less point for a Space Marine with S3 and T3, with weaker special rules (whose i have to pass a test to use).

Also, i think that Sister should have access to land raiders (at least the reedemer pattern, that scream Sororitas).

And finally, i dont want to field psykers...

Im starting to give up. I think i will just box the few Sister Models i have around, and wait for the future.

Well, if it helps... don't think of them as Space Marines, because they aren't. Lots of people in the background wear power armor, it's not unique to Space Marines. That they (the Sisters) are the combat equal to Space Marines does not make them Space Marines... that same thing can be said about many various kinds of Xenos, and no one tries to play them as Space Marines.

Sisters don't field psykers, either. So you're good there.

I understand that Psienesis, its just that their cost dont make sense at all.

If you get a Banshee, they have a reason to cost 25% more tham a Space Marine (this, back in 5th, as i dont remeber their cost in this edition), it is, they get -1 S and T, but are armed with power weapons (who back them costed 10 points for S3 models), and have 2 USRs for assault, added to a nice "unique" special rules.

I dont understand why a Sister with Pistol, Bolter, PA, S3, T3, and Stubborn (if they pass a test, at max 3 times per game). Cost only one point less tham a guy with Pistol, Bolter, PA, S4, T4 and They Shall Know no Fear...

But i alredy made my research, and see that it is not a recent problem for Sisters.

Actually, i was happy thinking a bit about sisters in 7th, like they would only get advantages with the rule changes. Them i saw that we dont even got a FAQ...

Lets face it, Sisters have been squated... :/

It sounds interesting. The biggest issue I would have with it is why a fleet based order would have such strong nature based beliefs. Otherwise it sounds pretty cool to me.

Lets face it, Sisters have been squated... :/

Considering they had a Codex published, what, six months ago? Hardly.

 The Dwarf Wolf wrote:
I dont understand why a Sister with Pistol, Bolter, PA, S3, T3, and Stubborn (if they pass a test, at max 3 times per game). Cost only one point less tham a guy with Pistol, Bolter, PA, S4, T4 and They Shall Know no Fear...

6++ and AW.

And Acts of Faith are actually better than that now.

Ok gals, you convinced me...

It will not be my "main force", but i will build something with sisters, real sisters, neglected codex and all... Lets see if i can play Warhammer (40k) in hard mode

Fluff is taking form, and will be soon posted around