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 Yonan wrote:

 milkboy wrote:
Do you have facts for this? If not, it's just an opinion.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/180/603109.page

The very last thread locked on 40k general, and I quote the mod statement when closing it:

Another thread that could have been a forum for genuine discussion spoilt by complaints about people complaining.

Emphasis mine.

A sample size of 1 does not prove that "Stop crying haters" closes more threads.

 milkboy wrote:
A sample size of 1 does not prove that "Stop crying haters" closes more threads.

It does until you can provide for the existence of one of those because as is, we have 100% evidence for insults/complainers about complainers.

 Yonan wrote:

 milkboy wrote:
A sample size of 1 does not prove that "Stop crying haters" closes more threads.

It does until you can provide for the existence of one of those because as is, we have 100% evidence for insults/complainers about complainers.

This is called the burden of proof fallacy.

It's amazing how the burden of proof only falls on me here, despite having provided some to your none.

Here are the most recent.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/603070.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/603109.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/602120.page

That's three where GW apologist get the thread locked because they don't like differing opinions. Show us one where a GW critic insulted someone that liked GW and got the thread locked.

I don't know about closing threads exactly, but in my reasonably extensive experience of online forums there's not much more destructive than people trying to shut down discussion. The most common instance of that I see is people trying to silence criticism of whatever game is being discussed. I'm sure that somewhere on the net there's the opposite - somewhere that people are trying to shut down people saying positive things about a game - but I don't know that I've seen it on dakka.

I think maybe that's because a lot of the impetus for trying to stop discussions is defensiveness stemming from people feeling attacked by criticism of things they like. People who dislike something maybe don't have that same problem - and that aside, people who dislike something tend not to hang around forums about it.

In any event, the super most important thing is to not try to shut down discussion on a discussion forum!

3 and a half pages of the same handful of people going round and round and round...

The most important skill that a forumite should possess is to know when to walk away from pointless arguments.

Lord Castellan wrote:
I myself would prefer a "No Toxicity Week", not a "Silence the Dissenters Week".

Why not a "Ban the Dissenters" week? Why not introduce a new legally binding contract system to user registrations that require ceaseless loyalty to Games Workshop. Why not make membership contingent on continued acts of reverence towards GW's board of directors?

Or why don't we agree to never, ever refer to those critical of GW as "dissenters" that somehow require "silencing".

Jesus...

How would a positive thinking week work, exactly? Instead of saying "Oh man, $63 dollars for three stupid models? What the frick, GW?" we say, "$63 dollars for three great models? Not in my price range but I could just convert from the plastic nob box". I mean, sure, it's nice but it ignores GW's horrible horrible pricing policy.

Seriously, 63 fething dollars for three Meganobz? I have no words. GW is taking the piss now.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
How would a positive thinking week work, exactly? Instead of saying "Oh man, $63 dollars for three stupid models? What the frick, GW?" we say, "$63 dollars for three great models? Not in my price range but I could just convert from the plastic nob box". I mean, sure, it's nice but it ignores GW's horrible horrible pricing policy.

Seriously, 63 fething dollars for three Meganobz? I have no words. GW is taking the piss now.

Well you could always go for the Kromlech Juggernauts.

http://bitsofwar.com/home/203-juggernaut-kill-squad.html

$20 per model instead of $30 per model, and looking so much better.

And I think the line of thought would be more of "Look at these far superior models that are spectacularly cast, for cheaper (per model)"

Positive thinking? OK....
• I am Positive that I will not buy another GW model until I finish painting all of their figures I already have.
• I am positive that when I do purchase another GW model I will look to find the biggest discount I can get on said model.
• I am positive that many others on these forums feel the same way I do about GW prices.

Wow, hard to believe my little comment started the discussion that followed. However, I want to point something out.

No where in that comment did I say "GW stinks" or "I hate GW". All I said was I sold 22 years worth of GW stuff and bought heavily into Infinity, which I am enjoying immensely from all levels (game play, painting, terrain building, etc.)

What's ironic, is that after that, most could figure out WHY I did what I did, even though I didn't complain about GW at all in my post.

The thread was about positives. I didn't read it as - only positive things to say about GW. So I went there. GW, for a lot of various reasons, was killing enjoyment of the hobby for me. I thought maybe because I was getting too old. Getting into Infinity helped show me how much I still do enjoy the wargaming hobby, but needed something "non-GW" to rekindle that interest. And that was a positive thing for me.

Why does positive ONLY have to revolve around GW? Can someone not enjoying another game, like I am enjoying Infinity, be a positive as well? Or is it because I enjoy Infinity, instead of GW, that it is now a negative for not lapping up the GW kool-aid?

On that same note I found the move from 1.1 Dystopian Wars to 2.0 a MASSIVELY positive thing.

They cleaned up the rulebook a lot, they streamlined the game and cleared up a lot of the rules issues.

They also did extensive play testing and redid every single profile in the game, resulting in a MUCH more balanced system.

My interest was wavering, then this happened and I dove right back in, throwing money at them left right and center. I have had nothing but positive things to say about Spartan Games since because while they didn't make it perfect, they saw what was wrong and put in a lot of effort to fix those things.

But Wayshuba you sold your GW stuff so effectively ended the HHHobby for you, how dare you!

It seems the OP has to write a specific guideline on what exactly counts as positive thinking comments because of opinions

 Wayshuba wrote:
Okay, a positive thought.

Last Monday I shipped my last GW army in my possession after spending two months clearing out 22 years of GW stuff. All told, I made a little over $9,000.

Of that, I helped increase Corvus Belli's coffers by $6,500 and have been having a ball playing a real wargame made by a company that gives a s***.

How's that for positive thoughts?

That's a huge amount of money!

In clearing out my collection (not all GW - Wargames Foundry stuff sells pretty well too), I think I only made about $2,000, of which I re-invested the whole lot into other games, totally rejuvinating my hobby.

In terms of current good stuff; Wyrd have released a plastic Gremlins box I'm looking forward to picking up even if it's got some duplicate characters. I just love painting Gremlins. The War & Empire range is nearing completion too, so soon I get to decide which armies I want (I'm set on Spartans/Greeks, but who do I want to pit them against? Late Persians so I can recreate 300? Romans? Macedonains? More Greeks? )

It's an interesting situation. If you go into other subforums for smaller games, there is a lot more positivity. If you take a look at say, the x wing forum, or infinity or whatever, there is much, much less in the way of negative posts. There is still criticism for the games/models etc, but it's not generally written in such a vitriolic fashion.

My own opinion on the reasons why is that GW have developed somewhat of an abusive relationship with its customers. The ever increasing prices become a cross for gw customers to bear. In contrast, x wing prices have stayed the same since release, and infinity have had I think one small increase in the time I've been collecting - and this is partly due to the costs of white metal.

The smaller companies out there seem to listen to their customers, and to an extent, give them what they want, whereas gw seem to have a genuine disregard for their customers, and their money extracting strategies get more and more pitiful. The reason people get angry at this instead of just giving up the game, is that they genuinely give a gak about the game systems. Gw used to be like Corvus belli, or fantasy flight, or whatever. They used to care about the customer, and deliver fun products for a reasonable price, and their fans are disillusioned with the Microsoft style management they now have.

Positivity can not be forced onto people. If they have an axe to grind, they'll get on and grind it. With each passing month, and each new way to fleece punters, more and more axes will be getting ground.

 Eggs wrote:
It's an interesting situation. If you go into other subforums for smaller games, there is a lot more positivity. If you take a look at say, the x wing forum, or infinity or whatever, there is much, much less in the way of negative posts. There is still criticism for the games/models etc, but it's not generally written in such a vitriolic fashion.

My own opinion on the reasons why is that GW have developed somewhat of an abusive relationship with its customers. The ever increasing prices become a cross for gw customers to bear. In contrast, x wing prices have stayed the same since release, and infinity have had I think one small increase in the time I've been collecting - and this is partly due to the costs of white metal.

The smaller companies out there seem to listen to their customers, and to an extent, give them what they want, whereas gw seem to have a genuine disregard for their customers, and their money extracting strategies get more and more pitiful. The reason people get angry at this instead of just giving up the game, is that they genuinely give a gak about the game systems. Gw used to be like Corvus belli, or fantasy flight, or whatever. They used to care about the customer, and deliver fun products for a reasonable price, and their fans are disillusioned with the Microsoft style management they now have.

Positivity can not be forced onto people. If they have an axe to grind, they'll get on and grind it. With each passing month, and each new way to fleece punters, more and more axes will be getting ground.

This pretty much sums it up. People aren't being negative for the sake of being negative, they're negative because GW deserves it for what they've done and continue to do, and the fact there is no official channel to communicate just frustrates people more because it makes it look like the customer isn't valued (which seems like that really is the case). The reason other companies don't get this level of negativity is because they don't have this "Just shut up and do what we tell you, peon" type of mentality.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why not introduce a new legally binding contract system to user registrations that require ceaseless loyalty to Games Workshop. Why not make membership contingent on continued acts of reverence towards GW's board of directors?

I thought that those were already invented and were called the Warseer forums?

Badum-tish! Thank you, I'll be here all week!

 Eggs wrote:
It's an interesting situation. If you go into other subforums for smaller games, there is a lot more positivity. If you take a look at say, the x wing forum, or infinity or whatever, there is much, much less in the way of negative posts. There is still criticism for the games/models etc, but it's not generally written in such a vitriolic fashion.

/thread

 Bullockist wrote:
/thread

I'm now imagining Dr. Cox saying the above whilst doing what you're avatar is doing.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Bullockist wrote:
/thread

I'm not imagining Dr. Cox saying the above whilst doing what you're avatar is doing.

I had a post all ready to go and then I read this, dammit man, I've been laughing for the past two minutes.

What were you saying about people understanding why people are leaving GW? When you get posts like this, it's clear that that's not the case.

 lobbywatson wrote:
Amen to GrayHamster and calamarialldayerrday!!

Side note as I see where this hate fest is going. I have never played war machine hordes. I know nothing about it. Zero. I've seen the models in stores. You know what else I've never done.
Gone to a war machine forum/thread and said a word. Wanna know why? Because its ok they like it. I'm cool with it. My game is better for ME. I don't know if its better for them. I don't care. I'm not here to recruit them or bash their game. Totally their prerogative. Enjoy your game. Now please follow this advice.
I like my war games like I like my religion. It's totally fine for you to worship whatever you want. If I want to know about I'll invite you over. Until that day keep it to yourself. I'll stick with my atheism.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Bullockist wrote:
/thread

I'm not imagining Dr. Cox saying the above whilst doing what you're avatar is doing.

I thought the avatar suited the rubbish I serve up. Looks like i was right

Sorry, I meant to write "I'm now imagining..." not "I'm not imagining". It's a weird thing I do when typing that always completely changes the meaning of a sentence.

Posi thoughts for the day y'all: my primer disaster is fixed, the clay trees I made are looking rad, and that stupid Imperial Bastion I painted for my LGS just scored me some sweet store credit!

Also, I love you bickering nerds.

Just realised what this whole thread reminds me of. The "new truth" sketch from Monkey Dust. It is available on youtube, but I won't link it as it's a little NSFW.

"By reclassifying things that are not entirely bad as things that a very nearly very good, you can achieve a significant re-emphasis of the good/bad ratio!"

I would broaden the concept of positive think not to just GW, but to basically everything else hobby related.

For those who want to say something positive, structure a thread per major hobby game and use it for positive stories and experiences about the game in question.

For those who want to say something negative, bring a critique of the game, then a solution. Much like modeling and painting where you present a model for showcasing, you get feedback. If you feel something is wrong, give a solution or way of improvement to offer.

At least then you're on par with those sharing a positive experience by the bad being reflecting on what can be done to fix something bad.

 WarOne wrote:
I would broaden the concept of positive think not to just GW, but to basically everything else hobby related.

For those who want to say something positive, structure a thread per major hobby game and use it for positive stories and experiences about the game in question.

For those who want to say something negative, bring a critique of the game, then a solution. Much like modeling and painting where you present a model for showcasing, you get feedback. If you feel something is wrong, give a solution or way of improvement to offer.

At least then you're on par with those sharing a positive experience by the bad being reflecting on what can be done to fix something bad.

Exhalted. Very true. Condescension, belittlement and any other way to slight others usually end up in a sling fest so that's best avoided. I have seen a 85 page thread with none (or minimal as I could have missed it) in Dakka so I think that is very possible.

 WarOne wrote:
I would broaden the concept of positive think not to just GW, but to basically everything else hobby related.

For those who want to say something positive, structure a thread per major hobby game and use it for positive stories and experiences about the game in question.

For those who want to say something negative, bring a critique of the game, then a solution. Much like modeling and painting where you present a model for showcasing, you get feedback. If you feel something is wrong, give a solution or way of improvement to offer.

At least then you're on par with those sharing a positive experience by the bad being reflecting on what can be done to fix something bad.

Okay, GW need to cultivate vets, lower prices, make it less prohibitively priced for new people, kick corporate out of the design studio and rebuild the game through balance and consistent FAQs. Publically accept they were going down a wrong path and open up communication.

It's not terribly hard to get us excited about playing the game, what kills the love is when GW step in with palms out and start telling you what to do and cutting off avenues to actually enjoy the hobby.

 milkboy wrote:
Exhalted. Very true. Condescension, belittlement and any other way to slight others usually end up in a sling fest so that's best avoided. I have seen a 85 page thread with none (or minimal as I could have missed it) in Dakka so I think that is very possible.

You may have missed it, but we provided the proof you were after above. Anything to say on that?