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What's very curious is people really wanting to see the Drotts and/or Drottchins but won't pledge (even if it costs them nothing!) before they actually unlock.
I'm puzzled as to what you find 'curious' about that. If people want those kits specifically, and aren't interested in the rest of the campaign, what reason would they have to pledge before the thing they want is actually available? They would be pledging out of hope that the stretch goal they want will unlock, and run the risk of either having to drop their pledge at the end (which stuffs everyone involved around) or winding up paying for something they didn't actually want.
It's a bit of a catch-22 situation, certainly, but that's the nature of the beast.
Well, we'll see how it goes :-)
We still have something we are preparing behind the scenes that should be ready on Monday, it should move things a bit forward. Plus banners on BoW and other siters and forums going up, so we should get a good bump.
We are also experiencing a very unexpected issue with our newsletter, seems some russian hacker (or at least that's the IP the server provider tells us it's from) has messed up some things and the system automatically blocked us to the minimum system requirements or whatever, we are no technicians. We hope it will get resolved, till now only a few tenths of emails have got out. Not the best thing that could happen to us as we only send out 3-4 times a year, where it actually matters! :/
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: This, what @Gallahad said. We won't be showing anything that's not yet close to funding, we did the same mistake in a previous campaign, it's definitely not going to happen again.
What's very curious is people really wanting to see the Drotts and/or Drottchins but won't pledge (even if it costs them nothing!) before they actually unlock. Which, makes the whole effort, let's say not as easy as it could have been, lol! (thankfully there are those who think ahead and have already pledged, even if they don't keep their pledge in our opinion it's the smart thing to do and we appreciate it).
Take for example our Shieldmaidens project. We received like 20-25% in the last 48 hours. If we had received that earlier, we could have probably reached the 100K target at the end and rewarded all gold level pledge backers +2 free boxes of Warmaidens (that's an extra 40 miniatures!). Wouldn't that have been simply extremely awesome value for money? :-)
People don't like to drop an initial pledge for items they don't want. Once they've pledged, it's much easier to get them to up their pledge in advance of an announced stretch goal because they're already invested. Unfortunately, you've provided no draw to get that initial pledge from people who don't want fantasy models. This is a common thread in your Kickstarters. You would be much better served having something for everyone in the initial offering and then staggering stretch goals between the target markets. As is, you barely even mention sci-fi goblins in the Kickstarter and give no clues as to just what point they'd be available at.
As for the Shieldmaidens receiving 20-25% in the last 48 hours, that's just how Kickstarters work. People make an initial pledge or just star the project and then come back when they get the 48h email to see if they want to increase their pledge (or drop it). This fits perfectly with what I was saying in the previous paragraph. You're not offering a large portion of your potential audience anything initially, but are telling them there might be something for them later, so is it any wonder they wait till later to see if now there's something for them? But you guys want to run your Kickstarters the way you want to run them, and that's fine, but you shouldn't really be surprised at how people react to them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/21 16:17:36
@Skarsol
First of all, don't take this as an attack, we appreciate all constructive feedback, and yours certainly qualifies as such!
I will object to what you are saying however, you wrote "You're not offering a large portion of your potential audience anything initially".
We are offering
1. to fund 50%+ of the project,
2. a hard plastic kit of great quality with a)a lot of options and b)something that currently doesn't exist anywhere else worldwide
3. 5 wartoads (all unique sculpts)
4. 2 characters in pledge levels
5. 2 additional characters (one of which the Butcher, revealed today)
6. a huge beast + the option to have a howdah
All this professionaly (in our opinion, I believe yours too) painted and video presented. For 25.000 USD, because very simply we cannot ask for less, math won't add up. If that's not reasonable enough, then I don't know what is. Did we fund in the first 48 hours in order to start smashing SGs? No, but hey, it's a niche within a niche. We believe in it and we'll fight it till the end, we try creating armies that are unique and/or distinctive :-)
Also, you write "you [i.e. Shieldwolf] barely even mention sci-fi goblins in the Kickstarter". Well yes, that's definitely intentional. If we reveal more it's going to do more harm than good, we've been through that. Thanks, we won't be doing it again.
we simply shared some images in forums/FaceBook to show how much additional work has gone into this project. Perhaps we shouldn't have done even that, who knows?
When the community gives us the chance to create and offer great value, we will. That's how we feel anyway.
Just our sincere thoughts, we are all here working on Monday's, it's still 2 weeks in a 17 day campaign. :-)
Things are building up slowly, but they are certainly building up... let's do this!
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: @Skarsol
First of all, don't take this as an attack, we appreciate all constructive feedback, and yours certainly qualifies as such!
I will object to what you are saying however, you wrote "You're not offering a large portion of your potential audience anything initially".
We are offering
1. to fund 50%+ of the project,
2. a hard plastic kit of great quality with a)a lot of options and b)something that currently doesn't exist anywhere else worldwide
3. 5 wartoads (all unique sculpts)
4. 2 characters in pledge levels
5. 2 additional characters (one of which the Butcher, revealed today)
6. a huge beast + the option to have a howdah
To clarify, I'm saying you aren't offering people that want standard sci-fi or fantasy goblins anything. For people that want forest goblins, sure, this is a great offer. But it should be no surprise that the others aren't pledging yet.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: Hi @lord_blackfang!
Actually it comes less than $1 per goblin (not to mention the quality and variety of bits included for each and everyone of them). We honestly don't think anyone else can match value for money what we are offering, we would be interested to see what we may have missed?! :-)
If the concept doesn't appease you, fair enough, that's certainly a different matter :-D
Only because of the resin characters added as a bonus in the pledge levels, but you're literally selling the goblin boxes at US$25 with 25 models.
For me, the prices work out to be the same as buying the GW night goblins, which also have the ability to be built as either archers or melee weapons, with command options included on the sprues. These aren't bad , by any means. Maybe a bit expensive for a KS campaign, but they're essentially on a par with the GW product, price-wise, as the additional shipping costs brings them to the same price as GW.
While night goblin box as aged well I think it is pretty fair to say these forest goblins are of higher quality. More importantly, GW's are $35 for 20, so unless shipping brings it up to $43.75 for Shieldwolf's box they are cheaper.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: This, what @Gallahad said. We won't be showing anything that's not yet close to funding, we did the same mistake in a previous campaign, it's definitely not going to happen again.
What's very curious is people really wanting to see the Drotts and/or Drottchins but won't pledge (even if it costs them nothing!) before they actually unlock. Which, makes the whole effort, let's say not as easy as it could have been, lol! (thankfully there are those who think ahead and have already pledged, even if they don't keep their pledge in our opinion it's the smart thing to do and we appreciate it).
Not curious at all. I'm surprised that you'd even suggest this, as it's basically insane and guarantees that the campaign would end up another Shieldwolf Kickstarter dumpster fire as people pull their pledges in the final days. Do you not remember these?
Take for example our Shieldmaidens project. We received like 20-25% in the last 48 hours. If we had received that earlier, we could have probably reached the 100K target at the end and rewarded all gold level pledge backers +2 free boxes of Warmaidens (that's an extra 40 miniatures!). Wouldn't that have been simply extremely awesome value for money? :-)
Kickstarter isn't shiny and new anymore, but even so the two "spikes" are always at the beginning and end of a campaign - and it's been this way since KS took off in this space. You get the people who are enthusiastic or really want to see something funded at the start, and then you get the "wait and see" people at the end. I've pledged $50 based on what you're offering right now. If you have more stuff unlocked that I'm interested in later, I may raise my pledge. While you guys may prefer for people like me to bump my pledge to, say, $300 in anticipation for things that may or may not unlock, that's simply not going to happen because ultimately it's a stupid idea for me to do that - and as we know - chances are it'll result in a significant backslide on your overall campaign at the end, and even the possibility of you guys cancelling it a few days out.
The only smart way for consumers to back a KS campaign is based on what is on offer at the time. Speculative pledges are stupid.
Speaking for myself, I've backed for 2 boxes of forest goblins because I like the sculpts (lack of ball joints for heads and necks is a choice, but I'll live.) 50 of them is pretty safely more than I'll ever get around to painting. The KS price for the goblins isn't particularly amazing (especially pre-paying a year out), so I won't pledge for more just so I can have more, and I hate the toads (sorry), I do like the brutgoths but not enough to pay for at those prices. So my pledge sits at $50. If normal goblins, or gretchin become unlocked, I may bump up my pledge, but right now, I'm pledging only for what's actually on offer. Not what might be offered in the future. It's pretty straightforward and simple.
People don't like to drop an initial pledge for items they don't want. Once they've pledged, it's much easier to get them to up their pledge in advance of an announced stretch goal because they're already invested. Unfortunately, you've provided no draw to get that initial pledge from people who don't want fantasy models. This is a common thread in your Kickstarters. You would be much better served having something for everyone in the initial offering and then staggering stretch goals between the target markets. As is, you barely even mention sci-fi goblins in the Kickstarter and give no clues as to just what point they'd be available at.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: @Skarsol
I will object to what you are saying however, you wrote "You're not offering a large portion of your potential audience anything initially".
We are offering
1. to fund 50%+ of the project,
2. a hard plastic kit of great quality with a)a lot of options and b)something that currently doesn't exist anywhere else worldwide
3. 5 wartoads (all unique sculpts)
4. 2 characters in pledge levels
5. 2 additional characters (one of which the Butcher, revealed today)
6. a huge beast + the option to have a howdah
You guys just don't listen sometimes. It's very frustrating.
All of your points there are just the same sort of irrelevant, self-aggrandising hurfblurf that you responded to my post with a couple of weeks ago. They have nothing to do with what he was talking about.
He's clearly talking about the Space Goblins that you guys are wishing people would pledge for even though there's no actual sign of them in the campaign.
1. If someone is a 40k Ork player, they are part of your potential audience that you're not offering anything to.
2. Yet you're frustrated that the people in this category aren't pledging just in case, maybe, you fund some sci-fi grots.
3. A 40k Ork player probably gives no feths about how much of the project you're funding, hard plastic fantasy models for a game they don't play, wartoads, resin models for a game they don't play, more characters for a game they don't play and quite likely, a huge beast, with or without howdah for a game they don't play.
Basically, you guys have clearly worked very hard on the campaign, but being so close to and invested in the project has blinded you to a lot of stuff that's quite obvious to cooler heads. You're also over-protective of it and tend to over-react or do what you did above when it's irrelevant to the discussion point being made.
I think trying to add in sci-fi goblins is a mistake - and even moreso trying to encourage backers to make speculative pledges is a huge, because you (unfortunately) won't get there. It wasn't that long ago when you guys were shocked that one of the other campaigns didn't fund into the hundreds of thousands of $ compared to one of Mantic's campaigns because you were offering had plastic compared to their gakky PVC. The big difference is that while their quality is ...variable, Mantic's campaigns are also quite wide, and they often draw on a lot of their back catalogue to help offer that "something for everyone".
I'm actually not suggesting here that you offer the rest of your range at a discount (you guys can make those choices yourselves at this point), but stop being so surprised when a campaign offering a single nice HIPs kit, some nice enough resin characters, and some resin monsters of variable quality doesn't instantly go gangbusters.
One final thing to consider is GW. You guys are competing in the same market, and not in a different niche like Bolt Action or Flames of War. They're still in competition, but you're in direct competition for the Warhammer dollar. They're absolutely kicking arse right now with the rate and quality of their releases, and it takes something pretty special to draw funds away from them right now in the "Warhammer" niche.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: Hi @lord_blackfang!
Actually it comes less than $1 per goblin (not to mention the quality and variety of bits included for each and everyone of them). We honestly don't think anyone else can match value for money what we are offering, we would be interested to see what we may have missed?! :-)
If the concept doesn't appease you, fair enough, that's certainly a different matter :-D
Only because of the resin characters added as a bonus in the pledge levels, but you're literally selling the goblin boxes at US$25 with 25 models.
For me, the prices work out to be the same as buying the GW night goblins, which also have the ability to be built as either archers or melee weapons, with command options included on the sprues. These aren't bad , by any means. Maybe a bit expensive for a KS campaign, but they're essentially on a par with the GW product, price-wise, as the additional shipping costs brings them to the same price as GW.
While night goblin box as aged well I think it is pretty fair to say these forest goblins are of higher quality. More importantly, GW's are $35 for 20, so unless shipping brings it up to $43.75 for Shieldwolf's box they are cheaper.
Maybe for you, but not for me. In case you missed the AU flag or the "works out to" or "for me" in my post, I don't live anywhere near you. So my situation is quite different.
I can get the Night Goblin box for $35AU, shipped, for 20 Goblins (no, I'm not buying from GWAU at AU prices - hence the "FOR ME"). AU$1.75 per goblin.
These cost me US$25 each (AU$35.20) for 25, plus quoted shipping of US$15 (AU$21.10) (half that, since it's for 2 boxes) comes to AU$45.80 for 25 goblins. AU$1.84 per goblin.
So actually more expensive than GW, but close enough for me to say "about the same" and back for a couple of boxes.
Feel free to jump in and try to correct me again, though. I'm sure it'll work out just as well.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/22 00:55:08
Well you had no indication* you were buying from a separate source than GW, so my observation was valid given what you presented. And even then the implication that this is a flaw of the kickstarter for not beating the discounted price you personally get is silly.
*Unless I am meant to assume that "for me" followed by a generalized statement of the KS as a whole means you are saying "my specific case of discounts makes this KS expensive" in which case I apologise for interpreting the wording differently instead of assuming there was no logical process involved.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/22 03:20:33
@Azazelx, I think you misread Shieldwolf. The only person suggesting they offer sci-fi goblins initially is Skarsol. Anybody who has followed their last couple of Kickstarters understands this is the wrong approach.
I think Shieldwolf was just making a comment about the somewhat counter intuitive "I won't pledge for things that aren't unlocked even if it makes it possible to unlock the thing I want and costs me nothing" behavior they've observed in their previous Kickstarters, not proposing they follow the same path as previous Kickstarters.
Honestly, I think the real problem here is with Kickstarters offering things as stretch goals that aren't actually related to the original campaign. That's what creates this situation where people won't pledge until the stretch they want unlocks, and the stretch doesn't get unlocked because they don't pledge...
Running a campaign for Forest Goblins? Great! Make all the stretch goals additions or expansions to Forest Goblins, and keep the Space Goblins, or whatever else to their own campaign where the people who want then can actually pledge for them with some reasonable expectation of getting them.
insaniak wrote: Honestly, I think the real problem here is with Kickstarters offering things as stretch goals that aren't actually related to the original campaign. That's what creates this situation where people won't pledge until the stretch they want unlocks, and the stretch doesn't get unlocked because they don't pledge...
Running a campaign for Forest Goblins? Great! Make all the stretch goals additions or expansions to Forest Goblins, and keep the Space Goblins, or whatever else to their own campaign where the people who want then can actually pledge for them with some reasonable expectation of getting them.
Gallahad wrote: @Azazelx, I think you misread Shieldwolf. The only person suggesting they offer sci-fi goblins initially is Skarsol. Anybody who has followed their last couple of Kickstarters understands this is the wrong approach.
I think Shieldwolf was just making a comment about the somewhat counter intuitive "I won't pledge for things that aren't unlocked even if it makes it possible to unlock the thing I want and costs me nothing" behavior they've observed in their previous Kickstarters, not proposing they follow the same path as previous Kickstarters.
I only suggested that if they wanted to resolve the "curious" situation of people wanting sci-fi stuff not wanting to pledge, they needed to actually offer sci-fi stuff. I made no assertions about whether that would be a good choice or not.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/22 17:02:19
Interested in this KS. Mainly interested in the Forest Goblin troops but looking forward to your reveals Any intention of making any of your other products available as add ons?
A grudge never too old to settle with metal and ire on the funeral pyre of vanquished foe
NinthMusketeer wrote: Well you had no indication* you were buying from a separate source than GW, so my observation was valid given what you presented. And even then the implication that this is a flaw of the kickstarter for not beating the discounted price you personally get is silly.
*Unless I am meant to assume that "for me" followed by a generalized statement of the KS as a whole means you are saying "my specific case of discounts makes this KS expensive" in which case I apologise for interpreting the wording differently instead of assuming there was no logical process involved.
Just give it up, mate. I'm buying at UKGW retail prices rather than GWAU retail prices, but let's be bluntly honest - it's not like you knew where I was or took that into account. Still, even that means that the KS is going to be very close to the same kind price/goblin to people in the UK - and hence the value of the KS is pretty much the same to anyone in the UK as it is to me. If you have any awareness of the market, you'll know that the UK is a not-insubstantial market for toy soldiers. I know that thinking outside of their own bubble can be hard for some US-centric people, so I hope you're not amongst them and are able to consider that your situation ≠ the situations of many other people. Besides, both the UK and US are filled with places that offer a substantial discount on GW stock's RRP. And people DO take these things into consideration, especially when paying a year out.
Now please leave it, or just stop replying to me entirely. Either works.
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Gallahad wrote: @Azazelx, I think you misread Shieldwolf. The only person suggesting they offer sci-fi goblins initially is Skarsol. Anybody who has followed their last couple of Kickstarters understands this is the wrong approach.
I think Shieldwolf was just making a comment about the somewhat counter intuitive "I won't pledge for things that aren't unlocked even if it makes it possible to unlock the thing I want and costs me nothing" behavior they've observed in their previous Kickstarters, not proposing they follow the same path as previous Kickstarters.
The thing is, what are those things that aren't unlocked? Generic Fantasy Goblins and the aforementioned Gretchin. My argument is that asking or expecting people to pledge based on what might happen (with images or not - and not much in terms of images at this stage in this case) is not a smart way forward, and that kind of thinking is likely to result in a big backslide at the end (or halfway through the campaign). They need to come to the table with something that enough people will pay for to fund the campaign, and then worry about people funding for stretch goals which may or may not happen. And certainly not to complain that it isn't happening.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
insaniak wrote: Honestly, I think the real problem here is with Kickstarters offering things as stretch goals that aren't actually related to the original campaign. That's what creates this situation where people won't pledge until the stretch they want unlocks, and the stretch doesn't get unlocked because they don't pledge...
Thank you for comprehending my point.
Running a campaign for Forest Goblins? Great! Make all the stretch goals additions or expansions to Forest Goblins, and keep the Space Goblins, or whatever else to their own campaign where the people who want then can actually pledge for them with some reasonable expectation of getting them.
I think that attempting to mix the sci-fi and fantasy is a move that won't turn out well. Raging Heroes - who SW may be considering - managed to pull it off by having cheaper production (spincast resin as opposed to HIPS) and a million beautiful, unique sculpts. Not a single HIPS kit. Apples and Oranges.
It might work for Shieldwolf by having Forest Goblins and then Fantasy Goblins, as those have a lot more crossover.
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Donomar wrote: Interested in this KS. Mainly interested in the Forest Goblin troops but looking forward to your reveals Any intention of making any of your other products available as add ons?
Da Boss wrote: I will probably back this weekend, but it does look rather tight to reach the funding so far.
May as well go in now, guys. If you're after the Forest Goblins, there's no harm in backing for those, even if it doesn't fund!
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/02/23 23:12:04
My only real criticism of the offered items is the stagnant poses. There's nothing really exciting about the look of every figure standing exactly the same way minus the weapon swaps.
I’m sure glad GW is going to all plastic, so the ever-rising cost of white metal won’t impact the cost of their miniatures.
We have opened the doors up wide. 3 out f 5 army bundles made available, two more to follow (Ogres and Orcs). Plus a few new banner coming up as scheduled in the begining of the campaign; if the plastic forest goblins are to become a reality, this is their last shot.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: We have opened the doors up wide. 3 out f 5 army bundles made available, two more to follow (Ogres and Orcs). Plus a few new banner coming up as scheduled in the begining of the campaign; if the plastic forest goblins are to become a reality, this is their last shot.
Thank you for your consideration!
Hoping that it puts an accelerator on the campaign, but I feel like these would have been more useful had they been offered earlier, or even from the beginning. Unfortunately, there's not much for me there, as I have a ton of Shieldmaidens and Orcs already, and I'm not huge on those Ogres (though if I was, I'd have already grabbed a bunch). I'll have a closer look at the Sisters and see how the finished models appear.
Does anyone have links to the final, shipped HIPS models?
edited by ingtaer.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/02/26 07:23:46
To start I just want to say I hope this funds I’m in for 3 boxes of Forest Goblins that’s more than I’ll ever need and the other ranges don’t interest me so adding them wont increase my pledge but hopefully it will bring in more funds. Some other Goblin heroes might get more from me but I know that they have to be paid for as well and if you only scrape $25k that leaves things very tight. I never saw the previous campaigns for these.
Unfortunately the current trend isn’t looking good by day 8 the September campaign had reached $18,000 but ultimately didn’t fund this one is even further behind. It really is last chance for these there’s only so many times they can run the campaign before calling it a day so if you want em now is the time to get them.
I think the timing was off as much as anything with both Mantics Terrain crate and Shadows of Brimstone running at the same time funds only go so far, sometimes you just cant catch a break.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/26 09:40:25
Thank you guys! We are trying our best but as @DaveC says, sometimes it is what it is. We are doing our best regardless, throwing now out some of the aces we had kept up our sleeves; banners have gone up on Beasts of War (this was scheduled more than a month ago!), and we have now added the other 2 factions (Orcs and Ogres). The science fiction monster comes in the next update.
(...and the Russian hacker seems to have really messed up our newsletter list, we have it but we simply can't use it. Couldn't have been any worse timing than this...) :-(
Anyway...
9 days left, this is make it or break it! Fingers crossed! :-)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/26 12:03:11
Just send out the information to all of your previous backers through the KS Update system. That should reach most people without relying on internal lists.
Urusei Yatsura, Cerebus the Aardvark, Machiavelli, Plato and Happy Days. So, how was your childhood?
@Sacredroach
Hey, thanks for that tip! We hadn't thought of that. Yes, we'll put in together some better/smaller/round-up images and post an update. Perhaps these previous backers don't want plastic Goblins but could help the cause otherwise! :-)
seems odd not to mention it's available as an add on (subject to funding) just without a crew. I actually think this version looks better than the fantasy one and would work in a fantasy setting without the cannon.
and here's the shaman for reaching 200 backers (171 at present)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/27 17:31:37
DaveC wrote: I think the timing was off as much as anything with both Mantics Terrain crate and Shadows of Brimstone running at the same time funds only go so far, sometimes you just cant catch a break.
That definitely sucks for the goblins. But it seems that there's always a "big" tabletop campaign (or pledge manager about to close) at any given time these days, so I guess it's part of the inbuilt hurdles of a KS campaign these days. Along with GW Resurgent.
lord_blackfang wrote: I posted in the KoW group. Did anyone get word out to the T9A crowd?
I put it up on my blog on day 1 or 2, but I doubt that people who browsed it and went away will be back to see all the new stuff on offer. And as much as I like SW, I'm not going to post about the same KS twice in a week and turn people's perceptions of the blog into being an ad. I think for whatever the next campaign is, Shieldwolf needs to leverage all of the things from Day 1 to get the initial total nice and high/funded, since a lot of people will browse once and then not return - and the majority of the 48-hour crowd won't back if it's not already funded unless it's maybe on a knife-edge of funding.
Agreed with Dave as well - that sci-fi Sqiggoth/Dinobeast would work just as well for many fantasy armies, and the cannon can easily be repurposed by most players. I bumped my pledge from $50 to $100 for some sisters, but I unfortunately don't have an additional $80 for a Brutgoth right now. (Especially as those US$ amounts work out to a good chunk more in AU$!) So if the campaign funds, I'd have to get something like that in the PM.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/28 01:57:00
You've already done more than we could ask for @Azazelx, here's hoping it does go through at the end. Otherwise we'll be left with at least the piece of mind we gave it a pretty good shot of actually becoming real! :-)
7 days left on this 17 day campaign, 3/5 of the way there; make-it-or-break-it!
choice, but I'll live.) 50 of them is pretty safely more than I'll ever get around to painting. The 
Any intention of making any of your other products available as add ons?
