From the Void- Dark Eldar Tactica for 7th Codex

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**Frozocrone**

There's a new FAQ out for Dark Eldar and the rules.

Immobilised Skimmers no longer get Jink

Shadowfield goes away when you make a successful FnP

Shadowfield is the big one I feel, since DE vehicles are more than likely going to be wrecked/explode before they get immobilised

**vipoid**

Frozocrone wrote:
There's a new FAQ out for Dark Eldar and the rules.

Could you link it, please, I can only see the old ones.

Frozocrone wrote:

Immobilised Skimmers no longer get Jink

That makes far too much sense.

Frozocrone wrote:

Shadowfield goes away when you make a successful FnP

Of course it does. I'm glad we're paying 40pts for this piece of crap.

As if I needed another reason to never use an Archon.

**Solar Shock**

Frozocrone wrote:
There's a new FAQ out for Dark Eldar and the rules.

Immobilised Skimmers no longer get Jink

Shadowfield goes away when you make a successful FnP

Shadowfield is the big one I feel, since DE vehicles are more than likely going to be wrecked/explode before they get immobilised

both of these make sense in terms of logic.
your skimmer is immobilised.... yet your performing evassive maneuvers? what by swinging on it? pushing it out of the way of those lascannon shots?

Your shadowfield which dissapates once it lets a shot through... yet because you ignored the wound though feeling no pain it decides to have another go? I can see how people took it RAW, but RAI they seem majorly obvious. I'll go take a look at the rest later thanks for informing us it was out.

**Frozocrone**

vipoid wrote:
Frozocrone wrote:
There's a new FAQ out for Dark Eldar and the rules.

Could you link it, please, I can only see the old ones.

Frozocrone wrote:

Immobilised Skimmers no longer get Jink

That makes far too much sense.

Frozocrone wrote:

Shadowfield goes away when you make a successful FnP

Of course it does. I'm glad we're paying 40pts for this piece of crap.

As if I needed another reason to never use an Archon.

Certainly, they are on the GW site as opposed to Black Libary. More regular updates? One can only hope.

Click on the rules errata and a list should pop up. Updates to BRB, DE, Orks and SW.

**vipoid**

Frozocrone wrote:

Certainly, they are on the GW site as opposed to Black Libary. More regular updates? One can only hope.

Click on the rules errata and a list should pop up. Updates to BRB, DE, Orks and SW.

Thanks.

Solar Shock wrote:

both of these make sense in terms of logic.
your skimmer is immobilised.... yet your performing evassive maneuvers? what by swinging on it? pushing it out of the way of those lascannon shots?

Your shadowfield which dissapates once it lets a shot through... yet because you ignored the wound though feeling no pain it decides to have another go? I can see how people took it RAW, but RAI they seem majorly obvious. I'll go take a look at the rest later thanks for informing us it was out.

The reason why people took the Shadowfield to do that is that that's exactly what the rules said. If a model makes its FNP, then it hasn't suffered an unsaved wound.

Logical or not, it feels an entirely unnecessary slap for an HQ who already got beaten bloody with the nerf bat.

**Sinful Hero**

Frozocrone wrote:
There's a new FAQ out for Dark Eldar and the rules.

Immobilised Skimmers no longer get Jink

Shadowfield goes away when you make a successful FnP

Shadowfield is the big one I feel, since DE vehicles are more than likely going to be wrecked/explode before they get immobilised

Weird how no one made a thread in News and Rumors.

**Solar Shock**

vipoid wrote:

The reason why people took the Shadowfield to do that is that that's exactly what the rules said. If a model makes its FNP, then it hasn't suffered an unsaved wound.

Logical or not, it feels an entirely unnecessary slap for an HQ who already got beaten bloody with the nerf bat.

Yeh I can see where it comes from;

FNP is taken against an unsaved wound, but it specifically states to 'discount' it, however I feel it is clearly written to make obvious that making a FNP roll means you simply do not remove a wound. 'You treat it as having been saved' - doesn't mean it was saved; because it wasn't. But yeh could be taken that way RAW. It doesn't feel like an unnecessary slap considering the slap had already been dealt, you were simply disagreeing you'd been slapped

so GW kindly reminded you you had

Other than the two already mentioned not much else applies.
For an FAQ, they answered about 4 questions spanning like 3 dex's and the BRB, surely we had more questions than that. If this is a new line of FAQing, I simply hope its more frequent

**Frozocrone**

Sinful Hero wrote:
Frozocrone wrote:
There's a new FAQ out for Dark Eldar and the rules.

Immobilised Skimmers no longer get Jink

Shadowfield goes away when you make a successful FnP

Shadowfield is the big one I feel, since DE vehicles are more than likely going to be wrecked/explode before they get immobilised

Weird how no one made a thread in News and Rumors.

Maybe - it was posted in YMDC

**vipoid**

Solar Shock wrote:

FNP is taken against an unsaved wound, but it specifically states to 'discount' it, however I feel it is clearly written to make obvious that making a FNP roll means you simply do not remove a wound. 'You treat it as having been saved' - doesn't mean it was saved; because it wasn't.

Except that you're then not treating the wound as if it had been saved.

Solar Shock wrote:
It doesn't feel like an unnecessary slap considering the slap had already been dealt, you were simply disagreeing you'd been slapped so GW kindly reminded you you had

Oh, there was no disagreement from me that a slap had occurred. As it stands, the only combat my Archon sees these days is when he fights my wyches for shelf space.

**blaktoof**

Yeah poor Archons, they used to be all hopped up on combat drugs and riding jetbikes...

If I take an archon these days it usually has blast pistol/huskblade/wwp/clone field/haywire for 160pts.

I then put it in an unit of trueborn with 4 blasters and a dracon with blast pistol/haywire for 6 blaster shots.

Then I debate with myself most of the game if the points are worth it to up the trueborn squad to 6 blaster shots.

Unrelated to the above, the Shadowfield ruling is interesting as most people tend to think that if FnP is rolled there was never an unsaved wound. The shadowfield is only lost if the bearer suffers 1 or more unsaved wounds, if the bearer makes its FnP roll the wound is treated as saved so there is not an unsaved wound suffered...

On the bonus, this means if a model makes FnP or RP against soultrap the model with soultrap in a challenge -should- still get +1 str for each wound suffered, because apparentally they were suffered.

also would mean the animus vitae can trigger even if a model makes RP or FnP.

Unless this is just a ruling only for SF, which would kinda be a big slap in the face to DE players for no apparent reason.

honestly though it seems like a really poorly done ruling, like something the e-mail response team would give and would later be contradicted by the same e-mail response team a week later when someone else asked, but thats the errata now I guess.

**vipoid**

blaktoof wrote:
Yeah poor Archons, they used to be all hopped up on combat drugs and riding jetbikes...

I find this really depressing. Where are our options for Bike-HQs and Jump HQs?

blaktoof wrote:

If I take an archon these days it usually has blast pistol/huskblade/wwp/clone field/haywire for 160pts.

I then put it in an unit of trueborn with 4 blasters and a dracon with blast pistol/haywire for 6 blaster shots.

Then I debate with myself most of the game if the points are worth it to up the trueborn squad to 6 blaster shots.

If you don't mind me saying so, that seems like an odd loadout:

- Is the extra shot really worth it? I mean, if you removed the Dracon and replaced the Archon's Blast Pistol with a Blaster, you could save yourself 25pts. Plus, you'd be firing to full effect at 18" - rather than needing to get within just 6" of your target.

- Is the Huskblade doing anything useful? I mean, it doesn't strike me as the sort of squad you'd want in combat. And, if you do end up charging something, I'd have thought an Agoniser would be more useful (since you're likely to be finishing off a wounded character/MC, rather than trying to kill one on full wounds).

If you removed both the Dracon and the Huskblade, then for 10pts more you could give the squad a Raider - which would give you another darklight shot (one with 6x the range and the option of shooting a different target), give the squad some protection, give them mobility when they land, and allow you a trick against Imperial Knights.

However, if some or all of that stuff is for fun or fluff purposes, feel free to disregard my suggestions. Personally, I've sometimes considered running a 'gunslinger' Archon for a bit of fun. One with a Blast Pistol and Parasite's Kiss. I generally go off the idea when I remember that, for some stupid reason, the Blast Pistol only has a 6" range.

blaktoof wrote:

On the bonus, this means if a model makes FnP or RP against soultrap the model with soultrap in a challenge -should- still get +1 str for each wound suffered, because apparentally they were suffered.

also would mean the animus vitae can trigger even if a model makes RP or FnP..

I wouldn't count on that sticking.

**Solar Shock**

vipoid wrote:
the only combat my Archon sees these days is when he fights my wyches for shelf space.

Exalted

**Solosam47**

Thanks GW! Yes! I love the fact my sweet archon already lost his left nut and now lost his right!

Maybe there will be a supplement this year that gives us back some named HQs and GW realizes it made a little mistake and fixes that FAQ

**vipoid**

Solosam47 wrote:
Thanks GW! Yes! I love the fact my sweet archon already lost his left nut and now lost his right!

**Lord Blackscale**

Wow.... as much as I like them I am losing enthusiasm for starting a DE army. The Archon and Drahzar(sp) are the only HQ units I like.

**mercury14**

Lord Blackscale wrote:
Wow.... as much as I like them I am losing enthusiasm for starting a DE army. The Archon and Drahzar(sp) are the only HQ units I like.

Archons are just fine for their points. I wish they could do a few more things and maybe provide army-wide buffs but then they'd cost more. I've been running mine with four Sslyths recently and he does great in assault. Alternately I run a naked Archon with blaster in a Venom and run him with maybe a Lhamaean or two for LOS needs (and maybe other needs...). Dark Eldar usually work best with a large number of small, hard-hitting units so as much as we often wish Archons were beefier, it's to our advantage that they're really cheap.

Armor of Misery isn't bad either, especially when you stack its -Ld mod with a Coven formation or two.

The cheapie way works great too: Archon naked or almost naked with four Grotesques in a Raider. That way he's safely encased in slabs of angry beef. Make it the Grotesquerie Coven formation and you have super-grotesques that get fearless on turn two. And the unit dishes out -2 Ld so the Archon can sweep with his I7.

**blaktoof**

vipoid wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

If I take an archon these days it usually has blast pistol/huskblade/wwp/clone field/haywire for 160pts.

I then put it in an unit of trueborn with 4 blasters and a dracon with blast pistol/haywire for 6 blaster shots.

Then I debate with myself most of the game if the points are worth it to up the trueborn squad to 6 blaster shots.

If you don't mind me saying so, that seems like an odd loadout:

- Is the extra shot really worth it? I mean, if you removed the Dracon and replaced the Archon's Blast Pistol with a Blaster, you could save yourself 25pts. Plus, you'd be firing to full effect at 18" - rather than needing to get within just 6" of your target.

- Is the Huskblade doing anything useful? I mean, it doesn't strike me as the sort of squad you'd want in combat. And, if you do end up charging something, I'd have thought an Agoniser would be more useful (since you're likely to be finishing off a wounded character/MC, rather than trying to kill one on full wounds).

If you removed both the Dracon and the Huskblade, then for 10pts more you could give the squad a Raider - which would give you another darklight shot (one with 6x the range and the option of shooting a different target), give the squad some protection, give them mobility when they land, and allow you a trick against Imperial Knights.

However, if some or all of that stuff is for fun or fluff purposes, feel free to disregard my suggestions. Personally, I've sometimes considered running a 'gunslinger' Archon for a bit of fun. One with a Blast Pistol and Parasite's Kiss. I generally go off the idea when I remember that, for some stupid reason, the Blast Pistol only has a 6" range.

blaktoof wrote:

On the bonus, this means if a model makes FnP or RP against soultrap the model with soultrap in a challenge -should- still get +1 str for each wound suffered, because apparentally they were suffered.

also would mean the animus vitae can trigger even if a model makes RP or FnP..

I wouldn't count on that sticking.

regarding the archon.

If you drop the huskblade, dracon upgrade, dracon blast pistol and dracon haywire grenades you have 55 pts, which is enough to buy a Raider and scrounging up a few more points will give you a dark lance. You gain a 6" disembark from the raider, or sitting in the raider for jink saves, the amount of darklight shots is the same but one is now longer range and can target something else(raider dark lance gain from blast pistol dracon gone)

Against knights if you opt to deepstrike in with the raider I don't find the raider of much greater use in actual game play, although I have only fought knights about 3 times now. You can either sit in the raider for the jink save, and hope something doesn't hit the raider with a template weapon, or the raider doesn't get blown up..or disembark with the raider between the knight and the squad and spread the squad out so maybe some of the models won't have the shield faicing them if the knight moves it to try and block the squad. This still leaves you with the knight able to shout the squad or raider and will probably be able to assault you if it can blow the raider up.

with the -arguably good- load out I suggest I usually also run 2 units of haywire scourges, some reavers with blasters/caltrops etc. I usually try and setup so scourges come down at max range from knight target, and archon drops in a different firing arc. Knight now has to pick to put the shield on the scourges with 4 haywire blasters, or the squad with 6 darklight shots. The 6 darklight shots averages 5 hits, which with rear armor averages about 2 affects, usually 1 glance 1 pen, pen is probably not going to cause on explode (I always throughout every game roll statistically 1 order lower than average

) Most players don't do that math in their head and think 6 shots is more than 4, so block the 6 blasters, resulting in me getting 1 affect through on average, 2 if I am lucky with the squad, then the scourges get usually 3 affects from their arc. Knight is left with 1 hp usually(if I happen to roll slightly above average or well knight is dead in 1 go) and has the option to shoot at things. It will hurt things with its shooting, and I am sad, but if it opts to assault the blastersquad, I make sure it has very little chance of succeeding in a charge roll versus the scourges, it has a good chance to die to overwatch, if not there are 2 models with haywire that strike before it and only need 1 hp to drop it to 0.

The unit is also quite good at fragging non flying things that cause me problems- bastions with VSG, land raiders, wyvern squads, AV13+ vehicles with 3+ Hps, and my opponent usually has to dedicate a decent amount of shooting to remove it, which can be problematic if I drop it in their backfield or on a flank. They can't tie it up easily with walkers, as I will probably hit once with an overwatch blaster shot, and then have 2 haywire grenades that will strike before the walker does. A backfield MC has to worry about the huskblade gibbing it at I7. Usually decent assault units are not in the opponents backfield, so although its not a great assault unit it has enough assault deterrent to stop most backfield units from actually assaulting it to tie up its shooting. Is it an utterly amazing unit? Nope.

But it works at certain things quite well and forces an opponent to have to commit certain resources to get rid of it without risking losing other types of models.

**Sinful Hero**

If the archon has a Webway Portal wouldn't it be better to have the blast pistol for the extra CC attack, as much of a corner case it might be? I've thought about sticking an archon in a heatlance Scourge squad(upgrade the solarite to a blast pistol too), and have 4 Melta shots and 2 lance shots for maximum damage. And on the off chance it gets assaulted or assaults the squad has two extra CC attacks.

**Frozocrone**

Sinful Hero wrote:
If the archon has a Webway Portal wouldn't it be better to have the blast pistol for the extra CC attack, as much of a corner case it might be? I've thought about sticking an archon in a heatlance Scourge squad(upgrade the solarite to a blast pistol too), and have 4 Melta shots and 2 lance shots for maximum damage. And on the off chance it gets assaulted or assaults the squad has two extra CC attacks.

I like this. I want to try this out

**vipoid**

Lord Blackscale wrote:
Wow.... as much as I like them I am losing enthusiasm for starting a DE army. The Archon and Drahzar(sp) are the only HQ units I like.

You poor soul.

mercury14 wrote:

Archons are just fine for their points.

They're fine as a shooty HQ with a blaster and/or as a cheap WWP caddy. As a combat HQ, I'd leave them on the shelf.

blaktoof wrote:

Against knights if you opt to deepstrike in with the raider I don't find the raider of much greater use in actual game play, although I have only fought knights about 3 times now. You can either sit in the raider for the jink save, and hope something doesn't hit the raider with a template weapon, or the raider doesn't get blown up..or disembark with the raider between the knight and the squad and spread the squad out so maybe some of the models won't have the shield faicing them if the knight moves it to try and block the squad. This still leaves you with the knight able to shout the squad or raider and will probably be able to assault you if it can blow the raider up.

Against knights, you position the raider so that it's in 2 of the knight's arcs. Then, whichever arc it elects to shield, you shoot the other one.

**SisterSydney**

So the Archon is our shooty HQ and the Succubus is our choppy choice?

**Sinful Hero**

SisterSydney wrote:
So the Archon is our shooty HQ and the Succubus is our choppy choice?

Pretty much. Haemonculus is our Jack of all Trades.

**vipoid**

SisterSydney wrote:
So the Archon is our shooty HQ and the Succubus is our choppy choice?

Yep, that about sums it up.

**Lord Blackscale**

Is there any use for Drahzar at all?

**Sinful Hero**

Lord Blackscale wrote:
Is there any use for Drahzar at all?

The metal version makes a decent paperweight, if a little top-heavy.

**Hollismason**

Drahzar has legit good rules, he however has a legit terrible fething unit price.

**vipoid**

Hollismason wrote:
Drahzar has legit good rules, he however has a legit terrible fething unit price.

It's not just his price (though he is horrendously overcosted).

- He can only join Incubi, and serves basically the same purpose as a Kalivex (whilst costing over 6 times as much). If you're using Incubi, you might as well just buy a second Incubi squad - complete with transport - and leave Drazhar at home.

- His melee weapon is nothing spectacular. S5 AP2... and? A Wolf Lord can get S6 AP2 attacks, and is a damn sight more durable. Which leads to...

- His durability is laughable.

The thing is, he costs as much as the beatstick HQs of other armies, but will lose to virtually all them in combat. Hell, he loses to our 95pt Succubus with Glaive.

**blaktoof**

Yeah Drazhar is pretty, subpar for his cost.

The best version of drazhar was the first full DE codex.

I still find it appalling he does not have assault grenades.

His artefact is an item that gives a 2+ armor save, which yeah DE can't get easily but that's pretty crap.

The WS bonus, is okay. Against many assault units, you are already higher WS at WS 5. (6 for klaivex) so its of questionable utility.

Muderous assault only affects him, so with charge and rampage you might get to roll 8 attack dice, but if you are charging anything in cover its at I1...also 8 attack dice although it could give you 8 6's (very unlikely) you are most likely to roll around 1-2. Given the attacks will probably hit on a 3+ and wound on a 3+ you are not even on average generating an additional wound on a model/unit with it.

He's just not worth the points, for possibly being the 'father of scorpions' hes pretty subpar compared to the other phoenix lords.

**Hollismason**

Yeah he doesn't have assault grenades does he. Had forgotten that.

Just a terrible unit, in fact I can't think of a single named Dark Eldar character except for Urien that's worth playing with.

**Lord Blackscale**

I suppose he is best used as a counts-as klaivex.