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fidel wrote:
Really Quick - I saw that one man posted on the MWG video that he has had countless things painted by BTP, and that he had videos. So me, being my curious self, decided to visit said videos and observe them for educational purposes.


Folks - I present to you what level 4 BTP painting can get you... I do feel sorry for this person because he thinks this is what constitutes a LvL 4 paint job - I wish he had gone with a more reputable one so that he can see the light.

Actually watched the video fully and wow those are terribly painted.

Wait - I am sorry it does continue....

If it is any consolation he called me a shill as well for pointing out the bad paint job and said he saw nothing wrong with it... I guess you can't remove the beam from the eyes?

Oh I was just joking around, I don't think the Shill comment was pointed at me.

I just know I am as pale white as this reply box though, so I felt like I should reply about the wonders of bridgeworks.

Also, I think a four year old could paint better than that. It's all drybrushing.

fidel wrote:
Wait - I am sorry it does continue....

If it is any consolation he called me a shill as well for pointing out the bad paint job and said he saw nothing wrong with it... I guess you can't remove the beam from the eyes?

Ah I don't care that he did, it was the irony of it that made me laugh.

Wow....

Beauty is in the eye of the blind beholder I guess....

It amazes me people actually pay money for "that" quality of drybrushing.

It certainly works for those particular models, but they're not particularly detailed models and frankly a level 2 is probably the highest paintjob you'd see any value out of on them.

There isn't much opportunity for freehand work, and I think anything lvl4 and above would basically mandate freehand work at the prices being asked.

 Grey Templar wrote:
There isn't much opportunity for freehand work, and I think anything lvl4 and above would basically mandate freehand work at the prices being asked.

Tenebre said earlier that BTP charged $17 minimum for infantry and much more for heroes... I assume that $17 was for a level 4.

At $17 I wouldn't expect much more than 1 to 2 hours work, so I wouldn't be expecting more than a basic "paint between the lines with a highlight and a wash" for $17. Of course a lot of Ten's models looked really shoddy like they were half an hour work

It's a shame BTP have taken down their level guide, we can rag on BTP's quality but it's not really relevant unless we know what they actually advertise they will do at each level.

Complaining about low quality in and of itself I see as largely without merit because we know BTP aren't targeting people who want competition winning models, they're targeting people who don't have the time and/or lack the skill to even paint we would consider "average table top quality".

The relevant thing is are they producing what was agreed with the client (and in this case, no they haven't) and are they producing a quality in keeping with their advertised quality which frankly isn't very high to begin with (in this case it looks like they haven't but we're lacking in recent reference material to know what actually constitutes a minimum to be considered "level 4".

There's little point in codifying levels of highlighting, etc. If I'm asked to paint red woolen hose (leggings) for a competition, I'll use exactly the same 3 mix drybrush/stipple and line work i do on tabletop stuff. I might be more careful with tidying up line highlights, but it works for th effect needed. If I'm asked to paint a red silk shirt, things get different, quickly.

At the end of the day it's time you're paying for and some things will work in that time frame and some won't.

As to that video of the puppets war stuff, it looks ok for what he'll have paid on first look. Yeah perhaps not as vibrant as some other place may have been, but (and it's 8am head here) it doesn't to me look as bad as to make it worth insulting whoever did it. Several cups of tea later, yeah, it's not great - but it looks more like unskilled or rushed work rather than doing anything different to what I might do. I mentioned drybrushing / stippling cloth - that does work but you need to do it properly. I dunno how BTP does their training, but perhaps that is something they need to look into.

The issue isn't the number of jobs BTP has done 'well' its how they handled their failures. Period. They clearly took on a job they didn't have the skill to do.

The puppetwars video clearly shows BTP market. Ugh everything looks dry brushed in craft paint

Jezus christ only one thing is coming to my head when i look at those minis....
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m3p_VuPIS2c

 YourWellPaintedArmyCom wrote:
Jezus christ only one thing is coming to my head when i look at those minis....
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m3p_VuPIS2c

Well that's scared me for life, thanks.

 YourWellPaintedArmyCom wrote:
Jezus christ only one thing is coming to my head when i look at those minis....
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m3p_VuPIS2c

that one IG with the crazy eyes is awesome! hahaha

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
There isn't much opportunity for freehand work, and I think anything lvl4 and above would basically mandate freehand work at the prices being asked.

Tenebre said earlier that BTP charged $17 minimum for infantry and much more for heroes... I assume that $17 was for a level 4.

At $17 I wouldn't expect much more than 1 to 2 hours work, so I wouldn't be expecting more than a basic "paint between the lines with a highlight and a wash" for $17. Of course a lot of Ten's models looked really shoddy like they were half an hour work

It's a shame BTP have taken down their level guide, we can rag on BTP's quality but it's not really relevant unless we know what they actually advertise they will do at each level.

Complaining about low quality in and of itself I see as largely without merit because we know BTP aren't targeting people who want competition winning models, they're targeting people who don't have the time and/or lack the skill to even paint we would consider "average table top quality".

The relevant thing is are they producing what was agreed with the client (and in this case, no they haven't) and are they producing a quality in keeping with their advertised quality which frankly isn't very high to begin with (in this case it looks like they haven't but we're lacking in recent reference material to know what actually constitutes a minimum to be considered "level 4".

So i asked them specifically what levels to get to have a showcase level army. they said 4/6. They set the price. But honestly 2 hours on a single chaos dwarf he should have some details. Their old guide stated "All detailed will be picked out". My models had no eyes, teeth, rivets, leather connections, belts, jewelery, or even beards. just "osl" sprayed over sloppy dry brush.

Here is one of my WiP touched up bull centaurs (which were the best work bt did in the army). on the left. Notice the details. I paid BTP $100 for the one of the right. (level 4). The one on the left was done with the exact same picture and description i gave BTP. The touched op one completely captures what i wanted combined with the tamurkhan artwork. I love the touched up one btw. And yes i really wanted that much blood.

And it looks way better.
gj m8

mmmm gibs!!

Wow, it really is some difference. I'd have easily believed the one on the right was a very early WIP, for the artist checking what the customer thought of a particular colour.

Yeah, shouldn't have gone out of the door, for sure. Embarrassing.

That does look a lot better and closer to what you outlined. I am horrified that's what they charged $100 to paint. The OSL does look a bit more out of place now though.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
That does look a lot better and closer to what you outlined. I am horrified that's what they charged $100 to paint. The OSL does look a bit more out of place now though.

yeah but i can ignore that since its a free touch up job and to remove it would require an entire repaint... and the blood draws me eye

Way more menacing. The miniature really benefits from the additional colour - while I PERSONALLY don't like the gore, if fits the miniature and the pose very well.
Can't say the OSL bothers me in the slightest since it's way more subtle now.
I've always wondered why the horns were glowing in the BTP version..

As a comparison, I just gave the shipping-ok to a Ravenwing Fire Raptor I gave to Den of Imagination. Thing looks absolutely awesome (expect a review on their services once it arrives). I'm tempted to ask BTP for a quote, just to see how much it would cost me to "BTP" Standard... would be interesting, no?

Wow...$100 for that after several re-tries??!

BTP deserves all the scorn this thread can muster.

The worst part for me is the gakky cork bases. Lava bases are so very passe at this point. Of course they fit the theme of the CDs but to do them so sloppily is just....bad. There needs to be way more rock than lava, preferably in some sort of layered effect not just cork glued to base then painted red "DURRR!"

I think BTP have fallen into the really bad habit I see people getting into of just using an airbrush for everything. Yes it's easy, yes it is fast, but without traditional brushwork you get this crap.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:


I think BTP have fallen into the really bad habit I see people getting into of just using an airbrush for everything. Yes it's easy, yes it is fast, but without traditional brushwork you get this crap.

Thats the problem BTP have. Airbrushing can be fast, but to do it well isn't easy.

To splash a bit of paint on, yes that is easy, but you get what you see in those pictures when you do that.

Someone like Giraldez can get stunning results from an airbrush, and he at times even makes it look easy, but its far from that.

NoggintheNog wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:


I think BTP have fallen into the really bad habit I see people getting into of just using an airbrush for everything. Yes it's easy, yes it is fast, but without traditional brushwork you get this crap.

Thats the problem BTP have. Airbrushing can be fast, but to do it well isn't easy.

To splash a bit of paint on, yes that is easy, but you get what you see in those pictures when you do that.

Someone like Giraldez can get stunning results from an airbrush, and he at times even makes it look easy, but its far from that.

Lets not get carried away, airbrush is an easy and time effective tool. It does not completely replace the brush, but it does most of its heavy lifting. Regarding the BTP minis, they might not be 9k work of work, but the airbrush application was fairly well done, like in those centaurs pictures. The problem is not that they used the AB, but that they left it at that with out finishing the fine detail with a regular brush.

xxvaderxx wrote:

NoggintheNog wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:


I think BTP have fallen into the really bad habit I see people getting into of just using an airbrush for everything. Yes it's easy, yes it is fast, but without traditional brushwork you get this crap.

Thats the problem BTP have. Airbrushing can be fast, but to do it well isn't easy.

To splash a bit of paint on, yes that is easy, but you get what you see in those pictures when you do that.

Someone like Giraldez can get stunning results from an airbrush, and he at times even makes it look easy, but its far from that.

Lets not get carried away, airbrush is an easy and time effective tool. It does not completely replace the brush, but it does most of its heavy lifting. Regarding the BTP minis, they might not be 9k work of work, but the airbrush application was fairly well done, like in those centaurs pictures. The problem is not that they used the AB, but that they left it at that with out finishing the fine detail with a regular brush.

That isn't even 40 dollars worth of work let alone 100. No details picked out, terrible ols, what the hell were they doing with the horns?

 Ustrello wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

NoggintheNog wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:


I think BTP have fallen into the really bad habit I see people getting into of just using an airbrush for everything. Yes it's easy, yes it is fast, but without traditional brushwork you get this crap.

Thats the problem BTP have. Airbrushing can be fast, but to do it well isn't easy.

To splash a bit of paint on, yes that is easy, but you get what you see in those pictures when you do that.

Someone like Giraldez can get stunning results from an airbrush, and he at times even makes it look easy, but its far from that.

Lets not get carried away, airbrush is an easy and time effective tool. It does not completely replace the brush, but it does most of its heavy lifting. Regarding the BTP minis, they might not be 9k work of work, but the airbrush application was fairly well done, like in those centaurs pictures. The problem is not that they used the AB, but that they left it at that with out finishing the fine detail with a regular brush.

That isn't even 40 dollars worth of work let alone 100. No details picked out, terrible ols, what the hell were they doing with the horns?

That is not the fault of the airbrush thou, that is an artistic call, a gakky one, but would have been just as gakky with a regular brush.

Tenebre did you like the BTP bull centaurs better than the hobgoblins and slave girls? Just curious because in the comparison post you said you thought those were the best BTP did. But I thought the slave girls and hobgoblins were better looking in the first vid.

On a side note, that new bull centaur looks really sweet, the gore looks really good on the model. But I'm not sure if the gore would fit the regular dwarves very well as they have a more static pose. But maybe your touch up artist can convince me otherwise.

Between the basing and the terrible OSL someone needs beaten with a hammer. That might be the worst OSL I've ever seen. What's going on with the axe? Is that OSL or is it supposed to be red? My god man.

I also can figure out why the skulls are the same color as the skin.

The one on the left is very solid not amazing but its lights out compared to the BTP one.

Seriously that basing is bad. If its supposed to be lava where is the shades of red, orange and yellow in it?

I'm glad you're suing them. They earned it.

I commented that I didn't think the models BTP churned out were too bad from the original videos (albeit not what you asked for, which was the big issue for me). But I hadn't gotten to those bull centaur guys. Wow. BTP didn't even bother painting the skulls in the beard at all. That's an embarrassing level of quality. Apparently, the only bad part I got to was the pink feet. They should be ashamed of quality like this.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/491663.page guess this guy some of the same problems blast from the past btw touch ups look alot better man

 tenebre wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
There isn't much opportunity for freehand work, and I think anything lvl4 and above would basically mandate freehand work at the prices being asked.

Tenebre said earlier that BTP charged $17 minimum for infantry and much more for heroes... I assume that $17 was for a level 4.

At $17 I wouldn't expect much more than 1 to 2 hours work, so I wouldn't be expecting more than a basic "paint between the lines with a highlight and a wash" for $17. Of course a lot of Ten's models looked really shoddy like they were half an hour work

It's a shame BTP have taken down their level guide, we can rag on BTP's quality but it's not really relevant unless we know what they actually advertise they will do at each level.

Complaining about low quality in and of itself I see as largely without merit because we know BTP aren't targeting people who want competition winning models, they're targeting people who don't have the time and/or lack the skill to even paint we would consider "average table top quality".

The relevant thing is are they producing what was agreed with the client (and in this case, no they haven't) and are they producing a quality in keeping with their advertised quality which frankly isn't very high to begin with (in this case it looks like they haven't but we're lacking in recent reference material to know what actually constitutes a minimum to be considered "level 4".

So i asked them specifically what levels to get to have a showcase level army. they said 4/6. They set the price. But honestly 2 hours on a single chaos dwarf he should have some details. Their old guide stated "All detailed will be picked out". My models had no eyes, teeth, rivets, leather connections, belts, jewelery, or even beards. just "osl" sprayed over sloppy dry brush.

Here is one of my WiP touched up bull centaurs (which were the best work bt did in the army). on the left. Notice the details. I paid BTP $100 for the one of the right. (level 4). The one on the left was done with the exact same picture and description i gave BTP. The touched op one completely captures what i wanted combined with the tamurkhan artwork. I love the touched up one btw. And yes i really wanted that much blood.

Wow, that is a huge difference in quality! Super excited to see what happens with the rest of your models!