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 Dinamarth wrote:
This is my unfortunate BTP experience from years ago. I had an entire space marine battle company so I had them do some test figs; needless to say I am glad I did...

 Dinamarth wrote:
This is my unfortunate BTP experience from years ago. I had an entire space marine battle company so I had them do some test figs; needless to say I am glad I did...

I have seen children to better paint jobs than that.

please tell me thats a joke......

No joke guys. Two BNIB 3-pack Marines were sent in as a test, it was not a salvage project or anything like that. I had a full battle company BNIB that I was looking at getting painted. This was many years ago.

 Dinamarth wrote:
No joke guys. Two BNIB 3-pack Marines were sent in as a test, it was not a salvage project or anything like that. I had a full battle company BNIB that I was looking at getting painted. This was many years ago.

Three colors, flocked and based. What more do you want?

 zlayer77 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

So the entire endorsement video was actually a subliminal criticism of Blue Table rather than an endorsement...? Despite the wide open amount of 'favors' Blue Table does for MWG and the backscratching and the previous endorsement video...?

Sorry mate, that reads like the lunar landings conspiracies I get told by smelly people on the bus. MWG are totally guilty of cynical favored endorsements with timing that was entirely prompted and cronyism, much as some of their fans don't want to hear it.

No. I am saying Matt could have done a much better job if he really wanted to make the case BTP is a great service. He chose not to, and this is what people should take away from it.

It still was a bad move on his part, would have been better to sit this one out.. Most of the other Table-top news media on youtube have stayed clear of picking any side in this... Better to stay neutral then advocate or trash something.. "stay out of it" would have been the smart move here..

And for him sending subtle message by showing "crappy painted stuff" that is kinda far fetched and would go over most peoples heads..

What he could do now to "save face" is to publicy say that he was wrong... but the smart thing to do is just let it fade away.. Hopefully people will just remember how badly BTP screwed up and not that MWG was involved hehe..

Sit out? why? do you ever listen to the Radio or Watch TV? what do you think happens there? do you watch sports? its common practice to endorse products. what I don't understand is why the critics are so infuriated and offended that he would make an endorsement video. listen to the radio. watch as radio hosts claim they use the same product that they are advertising. its been going on for years. you can't dispute the fact that there are a lot of BTP customers who have enjoyed and promoted their commissions. yes, there are those who also have questionable work done. but Matt is a business owner. If he gets free commissions or a trip to Valhalla and all he has to do is advertise a painting service on a video, mind you its a video that you have to click on. you don't even have to watch it. you are a critic of BTP and you see this video on MWGs list, you know its an endorsement or advertisement…you don't have to watch it. its not force fed to you on your favorite battle report videos. He has an obligation to pay his employees, his employees get paid because MWG produces battle reports that we all watch. its a benefit to MWG to have the models in these battle reports painted so its a no brainer. BTP paints them free models they can use on their website and we get battle reports. I can't tell from the battle reports if the models have eyes or drilled bolt guns. I can't tell the difference in the battle report if the model is painted by BTP or DoI. Do people get upset if they use Frontline gaming mats? they plug FLG every time. So, because some people don't like BTP…MWG is a sell out? Matt would be a sell out if he put a video out of GW and all the great stuff they do, all the great decisions. Matt would be a sell out if one day he filmed a video where he boasts about GW tactics and how it was a great idea to nearly bankrupt his business and that GW is the best company is a world and they treat their distributors with distinction. people need to get over Matts decision to plug BTP. they took a dump on this guys dwarves but I've seen good work from them before.

There's nothing out of the norm with a clearly marked "paid advertisement", but I think the issue was how MWG went about it... not simply the fact that they were advertising something (which they often do).

Mwg advertising them doesn't bug me. They received a service for compensation and they are following through.

The only thing that I think made people weary was when Matt asked for peoples positive reviews. And honestly, thats not a big deal. when your favorite author puts out a new book, would you use the negative quotes on your blurb?

How good is an endorsement/advertisement if there are negative remarks associated with it. The dude makes videos for us to watch and we would rather see painted models. who cares who paints them and who really cares that they got a trip to Valhalla for it. If I played 40K for a living, you know damn right I would do whats necessary to advance my company. only problem is that 40K unfortunately has a base of players with Socialization problems and an unfounded hatred for anything that doesn't go 150% their way. I find it as silly to get mad at this as the guys who play Flames of War and get pissed off that your german army coats don't have the same distinct markings from the ones the actual germans used in the winter of '44.

Johnnytorrance wrote:
The only thing that I think made people weary was when Matt asked for peoples positive reviews. And honestly, thats not a big deal. when your favorite author puts out a new book, would you use the negative quotes on your blurb?

How good is an endorsement/advertisement if there are negative remarks associated with it. The dude makes videos for us to watch and we would rather see painted models. who cares who paints them and who really cares that they got a trip to Valhalla for it. If I played 40K for a living, you know damn right I would do whats necessary to advance my company. only problem is that 40K unfortunately has a base of players with Socialization problems and an unfounded hatred for anything that doesn't go 150% their way. I find it as silly to get mad at this as the guys who play Flames of War and get pissed off that your german army coats don't have the same distinct markings from the ones the actual germans used in the winter of '44.

So FoW players have had a problem with you in the past, ergo all consumers should just shut up and not comment on how MWG conducts themselves on social media?

I think you've lost the thread a bit.

People weren't concerned when MWG touted Blue Table before this incident. They were concerned when MWG asked for only positive reviews for BTP AFTER they massively dropped the ball with Tenebre's army. They were concerned when Matt brushed off any mention of Tenebre's case. We expect more from the people we get our information from. The backlash was well earned.

It's fine to support another company with your own company, it's fine to receive kickbacks from a company that you are supporting.

But when you put your own name behind another company and that company feths up, it's your name behind it that's getting fethed up too. Especially when they feth up publicly and then you go on AFTER they fethed up to endorse them.

That's how endorsements work... you put your name behind someone else and when that someone else feths up, your name gets dragged through the mud as well... that's why you don't endorse people unless you actually have confidence in them.

The problem with the MWG endorsement was the manner and timing of it; to specifically ask for 'only positive reviews' at a time when the Tenebre affair had really gained visibility, and for Matt to act very dismissively towards the problem (seemingly painting Tenebre as some kind of troublemaker, and Blue Table Painting as the victim), was very suspicious - it gave the impression that MWG was prepared to side with their business partner (a miniature painting service) over the players they supposedly represent.

Plus, people have mentioned that Matt's apparently not very enthusiastic performance, and poor choice of BTP painted models to showcase in the video, suggests that he doesn't even believe his own hype.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Plus, people have mentioned that Matt's apparently not very enthusiastic performance, and poor choice of BTP painted models to showcase in the video, suggests that he doesn't even believe his own hype.

Having seen plenty of MWG videos, I doubt it. He's got an overall bland personality, and given their inability to learn even basic game rules correctly I wouldn't be surprised if they couldn't tell a good paintjob from a poor one.

 Dinamarth wrote:
This is my unfortunate BTP experience from years ago. I had an entire space marine battle company so I had them do some test figs; needless to say I am glad I did...

Seriously excellent drybrushing on the base though!

I think this video might be in order again. Repost is justified.

 Reality-Torrent wrote:
I think this video might be in order again. Repost is justified.

Who molested that poor model?

 Dinamarth wrote:
This is my unfortunate BTP experience from years ago. I had an entire space marine battle company so I had them do some test figs; needless to say I am glad I did...

What "level" was this? Zero?

As in zero F's were given by the painter??

 Reality-Torrent wrote:
I think this video might be in order again. Repost is justified.

snip...

Thank you! I didn't get to watching this when it was first posted and didn't really feel like sorting through a bajillion pages to find it.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Plus, people have mentioned that Matt's apparently not very enthusiastic performance, and poor choice of BTP painted models to showcase in the video, suggests that he doesn't even believe his own hype.

If you want to understand the relationship between MWG and BTP a little better, take a look at this batrep.

Dave is playing Shawn and they are talking. Lots of small details that paint a picture of the love / hate that goes on. Pay attention to when Shawn is talking, and listen for when Dave says "Yeah, yeah", "That's right" or anything else to move things along. There's a very nuanced impatience underlying the exchange, at odds with everything else going on in the room, that stands out when you listen for it.

Without trying to assign a greater significance to the conversation than what it deserves, one of the players views the other as his lesser.

Oh, and listen to Shawn describe his strategy for the game. Starts at around 26 minutes, he lays out all all these plans for how he's going to use the board then he ignores what he just said.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Plus, people have mentioned that Matt's apparently not very enthusiastic performance, and poor choice of BTP painted models to showcase in the video, suggests that he doesn't even believe his own hype.

If you want to understand the relationship between MWG and BTP a little better, take a look at this batrep.

Dave is playing Shawn and they are talking. Lots of small details that paint a picture of the love / hate that goes on. Pay attention to when Shawn is talking, and listen for when Dave says "Yeah, yeah", "That's right" or anything else to move things along. There's a very nuanced impatience underlying the exchange, at odds with everything else going on in the room, that stands out when you listen for it.

Without trying to assign a greater significance to the conversation than what it deserves, one of the players views the other as his lesser.

Oh, and listen to Shawn describe his strategy for the game. Starts at around 26 minutes, he lays out all all these plans for how he's going to use the board then he ignores what he just said.

If you were trying to paint a picture of Dave not likeing Shawn and making a stand against him I think you were wrong in reffering to that video. Dave says several times that he loves Shawn and so on, hugs him and what have you. Either way it has nothing to do with this thread..

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Plus, people have mentioned that Matt's apparently not very enthusiastic performance, and poor choice of BTP painted models to showcase in the video, suggests that he doesn't even believe his own hype.

If you want to understand the relationship between MWG and BTP a little better, take a look at this batrep.

Whatever it is that you're seeing... I'm not seeing it.

Johnnytorrance wrote:

 zlayer77 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

So the entire endorsement video was actually a subliminal criticism of Blue Table rather than an endorsement...? Despite the wide open amount of 'favors' Blue Table does for MWG and the backscratching and the previous endorsement video...?

Sorry mate, that reads like the lunar landings conspiracies I get told by smelly people on the bus. MWG are totally guilty of cynical favored endorsements with timing that was entirely prompted and cronyism, much as some of their fans don't want to hear it.

No. I am saying Matt could have done a much better job if he really wanted to make the case BTP is a great service. He chose not to, and this is what people should take away from it.

It still was a bad move on his part, would have been better to sit this one out.. Most of the other Table-top news media on youtube have stayed clear of picking any side in this... Better to stay neutral then advocate or trash something.. "stay out of it" would have been the smart move here..

And for him sending subtle message by showing "crappy painted stuff" that is kinda far fetched and would go over most peoples heads..

What he could do now to "save face" is to publicy say that he was wrong... but the smart thing to do is just let it fade away.. Hopefully people will just remember how badly BTP screwed up and not that MWG was involved hehe..

Sit out? why? do you ever listen to the Radio or Watch TV? what do you think happens there? do you watch sports? its common practice to endorse products. what I don't understand is why the critics are so infuriated and offended that he would make an endorsement video. listen to the radio. watch as radio hosts claim they use the same product that they are advertising. its been going on for years. you can't dispute the fact that there are a lot of BTP customers who have enjoyed and promoted their commissions. yes, there are those who also have questionable work done. but Matt is a business owner. If he gets free commissions or a trip to Valhalla and all he has to do is advertise a painting service on a video, mind you its a video that you have to click on. you don't even have to watch it. you are a critic of BTP and you see this video on MWGs list, you know its an endorsement or advertisement…you don't have to watch it. its not force fed to you on your favorite battle report videos. He has an obligation to pay his employees, his employees get paid because MWG produces battle reports that we all watch. its a benefit to MWG to have the models in these battle reports painted so its a no brainer. BTP paints them free models they can use on their website and we get battle reports. I can't tell from the battle reports if the models have eyes or drilled bolt guns. I can't tell the difference in the battle report if the model is painted by BTP or DoI. Do people get upset if they use Frontline gaming mats? they plug FLG every time. So, because some people don't like BTP…MWG is a sell out? Matt would be a sell out if he put a video out of GW and all the great stuff they do, all the great decisions. Matt would be a sell out if one day he filmed a video where he boasts about GW tactics and how it was a great idea to nearly bankrupt his business and that GW is the best company is a world and they treat their distributors with distinction. people need to get over Matts decision to plug BTP. they took a dump on this guys dwarves but I've seen good work from them before.

If you really wanted to help Matt out, you should have taken my advice and let it Fade away. But instead you wrote a wall of Text, that was mostly ramblings...

Facts are BTP messed up, Matt should have stayed out of it, but now he Bet on the wrong horse.. I dont really think his ramblings on GW tactics is that good either to be honest, they come off mostly as a long whine about why he no longer can afford to sell their products. I'm not a GW fan and if Matt really disliked them so much he should stop Making Battle reports about their games... But Battle Reports about GW games get more hits, so Matt keeps making them.. In the End Matt is in it for Matt and nobody ells.. He was mad that he could not afford and make a decent profit on GWs miniatures, but then again GW Bat Reps gets more views so he keeps making them.. BTP gives him free painting so he endorse thier products! Why? so Matt can get more Minitures painted for Free or at a disscount.. He is a typical "Sell Out" if you ask me...

I personaly have never followed BTP or MWG on youtube etc.. Mini wargaming really suck at playing games if you ask me and their reports give me zero.. As a competetive, Tournament playing gamer i like to listen to people I know "Win tournaments", and have something cunstructive and instructively to tell me.. MWG is pure amateur hour if you ask me.. And the Fact that Matt cant keep his nose out of things and endorse a company like BTP really makes the "amateur" aspect shine through.. As I said before all the other "Internet table top News media" has stayed clear of this.. He should have done the same "if he was smart".. And you should have let the whole thing Fade away as I sugested, but you just had to comment dident you hehe.. You are not helping Matt and MWG here when you keep reminding people about what he has done? now do you?

Take my advice "LET IT FADE AWAY", and hopfully all anyone will remember in 6months time is that BTP screwed up...

To be fair to MWG, they(and every other third party retailer) have been screwed by GW's pricing and availability changes. The move to having half of their products be Webstore exclusives and treating their retailers as competitors is a real screwy situation.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Plus, people have mentioned that Matt's apparently not very enthusiastic performance, and poor choice of BTP painted models to showcase in the video, suggests that he doesn't even believe his own hype.

If you want to understand the relationship between MWG and BTP a little better, take a look at this batrep.

Whatever it is that you're seeing... I'm not seeing it.

Despite the other things they both said: whenever Shawn starts talking about something complicated, Dave starts talking over him to move the conversation along. It's subtle, but it keeps happening.

Impatience =/= dislike.

even in the event that matt was being cryptic no one should have too read between lines too get truth about a company they endorse or review .that imo is a bad review/endorsement and i will find my info elsewhere .that
being said i don't hate on mwg i just dont pay any mind too any review /endorsements or content they do . i have for about a year now watched front line gaming videos and followed there podcasts for all my bat reps news info and reviews by that company stepping up to help tenebre out shows me that care about the people they sell stuff and pass info to and that too me is worth supporting company's like there's

People are reading to much into the body language, to create this wmg and bt narrative.

You can tell in throws videos they are bassicly friends and somehow mwg got involved. It's hard to tell if bt pressured them or if they jumped in trying to cover a friend's back in the middle of social media back lash.

Trying to create a narrative and a story explaining what happened doesn't help.

Just judge the actions on their own merit.

 Lockark wrote:
People are reading to much into the body language, to create this wmg and bt narrative.

You can tell in throws videos they are bassicly friends and somehow mwg got involved. It's hard to tell if bt pressured them or if they jumped in trying to cover a friend's back in the middle of social media back lash.

Trying to create a narrative and a story explaining what happened doesn't help.

Just judge the actions on their own merit.

its tinfoil hat stuff. reading between the lines is one thing but when you start over analyzing every little thing someone does and attribute hidden meaning to it you're headed for crazy town.
when you stare at something long enough you still start to see what you want to see in it.
I watched matt's btp review videos and i didn't see what theblacklegion was seeing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oIVA9DKIJM

According to this video the client and artist had a lot of contact about the minatures. They are keeping me updated with WIP and samples aswell, even tho I didnt ask for it. Maybe they learned from their mistakes here, which still sucks for Tenebre, and I cant imagine why they didnt do it for him if he asked for it...