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 Furyou Miko wrote:
So the Dracosan's basically like a double-capacity Repressor?

No fire points on this one, and it also can drop 10 model capacity for a Battle Cannon.

Just needs an Organ on top.

Darn, looked like it had some firing slits.

I probably wouldn't use it, personally, without fire points.

The Dracosan is neat, but it's not an assault vehicle (I think), which means it doesn't solve the Sisters' main problem. It does let you transport a 20-girl BSS blob without resorting to superheavies (e.g. Storm Lord/Queen), which is nice, but they can't assault or even shoot from it, so tactically it doesn't add a lot.

Lore-wise, as well, the Sisters having Dracosans 10 millennia after the Heresy raises the question of why the Imperial Guard doesn't have them, when the IG is the direct heir of the old Imperial Army. You could argue that this kind of relic tech is Too Good For Guard and Vandire or someone stole them all for the Sisters, but as with the crunch, the fluff is not a great fit.

It's not impossible that FW could give them to the IG but they're honestly probably pretty rare in 40k vs 30k, and like the difference between Volkite and Las or Bolters, much more expensive to produce.

Here's a simpler way to solve the "blob transport" problem: let a battle sister squad with more than 10 models take a Frateris Hussite as a dedicated transport. It's a ramshackle beast (rukes based on Ork war wagon) with no Shield of Faith, but it's got 20 seats and it's open-topped, letting all the sisters shoot/charge out as required. Fluff justification is some Superior saw the Frateris militia rolling along in their big transport, saved them down, and commandeered the vehicle with a combination of rank, prayer, and blood-curdling threats.

I'd restrict it as a DT for larger squads only or else people might spam the version of the Hussite that swaps all the passenger capacity for (crappy) guns.

Even if you want the Sisters to ride in a vehicle provided for the monks, and the monks are a mob like force, the vehicles they'd normally ride in aren't going to be Ramshackle. It's the friggin' Ecclesiarchy, show some class.

My solution for a 20 Sister blob transport is the Rhino Advancer.
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Rhino_Advancer
The Sisters of Battle probably bought most of the Rhino Advancers in the Imperium from the Space Marine equivalent of the Army Surplus.

From my Codex:


And here's what a scratch built one looks like: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/390/267859.page, not mine

Your Rhino Advancer looks much better than the artwork I've seen, J3f. Nice. I'm still not entirely sold on the vehicle, though. A stretch Rhino seems a little bland, I guess.

As for the Frateris Hussite being ramshackle, Clockwork, remember it's jury-rigged out of mining vehicles by Frateris Militia, who aren't monks but more like IG Conscripts with a death wish. I gave most of their weapons Gets Hot; I don't think quality control is their thing. They'll absolutely decorate the hell out of their ride, but it's going to look more like a Third World bus -- say a Haitian tap-tap covered in colorful Bible scenes -- than like a properly blinged-out Ecclesiarchy vehicle.

Small correction, I didn't model that Rhino Advancer, Heliodore did.

Not everything has to be over the top, it's a transport.

I recently added some new HQ units a Celestian Elohim, a new Special Character Canoness, and 2 returning Characters Cardinal Armandus Helfire, and Inquisitor Lorr.

Right now I'm working out the details for a Sisters of Battle Walker.

It's going to fill the niche between IG Sentinels and Dreadnoughts.

I'm thinking 2 Heavy Bolters with the option to upgrade to Multi-meltas, and Autocannons

*cough*

Ecclesiarchal CAAT.

Combined Anti-Armor Team? Captive Air Amphibious Transporter? Children's Air Ambulance Trust? Probably that second one....

Not quite.

Ah, I love the Crassus and almost included a Sister-ized version -- but I don't have the current rules to start from. (And no, my budget does not extend to Imperial Armour books).

Love what you're doing Sister, great stuff!
You ever consider deviating from canon a little bit and creating an actual martyr Lord of War unit? Something like a 200-300 point uber unit, maybe even MC, that stays in reserve until a character dies and then arrives on the field at that model's location?

Thanks. And the idea of a martyr rising in glory from the dead is a fascinating one, and very Sisterly. I'd love to figure out how to do it, but I'm struggling with a fundamental problem: if the Risen Martyr is more powerful than the HQ character it replaces (which is rather the point), then you end up with the Sisters played desperately trying to get his/her own character killed and the opponent desperately trying not to kill her -- which seems less Sisterly and more just silly.

Perhaps if the Risen Martyr could replace any slain Sister, even a regular BSS model, whose death met certain conditions? Then it's just coming in from Reserves by the usual rules with the added wrinkle that at least one Sister has to have died somewhat gloriously on the preceding turn, which shouldn't be a hard condition to meet.

Good thinking; your way would allow the Risen Martyr to pop up turn 2 or 3, provided a decent reserve roll, where if you had to wait on a character to be slain, it may take quite a bit longer.
I'd imagine the look on the opponent's face when he realizes that Sister Squad he laid into on turn 1 has come back with a vengeance would be spectacular.

Thanks. You really needn't have any conditions except "However, this unit may not come in from Reserves until at least one model with the Act of Faith special rule has been removed from play," come to think of it. Trying to keep track of how well a given Sisters model died would add enormous book-keeping, and it's necessary for fluff. Even if your only casualties are from a squad that died ignominiously while routing, perhaps one Sister was bravely covering her cowardly comrades' retreat and died nobly. Or perhaps that one Sister you lost to long-range shooting had just moved herself to shield a wounded friend with her own body, or was trying to drag a casualty to cover.

I've added Principalities (developed in this thread) to the Elites section of the 'dex: jump troops with a Celestian statline, power weapons, storm shields, and an Act of Faith that lets them jump out of the way of charges (sometimes) because they are real glass hammers.

Alright, this is some awesome stuff right here. Distilled, grade-A winsauce.

It covers everything that Sororitas currently lack without using allies - that is, an assault transport and anti-air. It patches all my complaints about the Canoness and Command Squad, gives me a Jump Infantry option with Zealot and War Hymns (so I can actually use Seraphim as Assault Marine workalikes but with their own flavor), and, one of the big items on my "wouldn't it be nice" list - an IC Hospitaller. Heck yes.

It even has things I didn't think of but that are insanely awesome, namely, Vigils. What an awesome take on the "vow of silence" idea, I love it!

However, Vigils are the only unit I really have any crunch suggestions for - namely, two things: the act of faith, and some concession to the "sniper" idea.

Here's my concept: The act of faith confers one of three benefits. A) All melta, plasma and krak grenades gain Monster Hunter and Tank Hunter, B) all flame weapons gain Pinning or C) all bolt pistols, bolters, storm bolters and heavy bolters gain Sniper.
Here's my reasoning - having both Hunters rules for one phase matters not a bit. You're shooting at one, or the other. Plasma and krak aren't in the Holy Trinity of weapons, but they do fit the theme (they all have krak grenades, you could have a combi-plasma, and a priest could have a full plasmagun)... take or leave as makes sense. Precision Shots is actually fairly weak, but if coupled with Sniper, it becomes much nastier. If that's for bolt weapons only, it removes the weirdness with Sniper-meltas and Sniper-flamers. Pinning on Flamers seems the most logical thing other than Soul Blaze, and when's the last time you ever had Soul Blaze do one sand-cursed thing?

The other part would be this - for the extended range of a "sniper bolter", there's a pre-made answer: Kraken rounds from Sternguard. Vigils could come with them, or they could be bought as an upgrade, maybe only if you pass up the special weapons and keep your boltguns. My only worry would be how tempting it would be to take a Simulacrum and Uriah Jacobus just to allow 30" range TL Sniper shooting for three turns. Then again, Kroot can do worse things, so I'm not sure how bad that really is.

Thanks for both compliments and suggestions. The Vigils' Act of Faith is one of the things I'm not fully satisfied with, so I'll ponder your idea. It does seem even more complicated than the current "pick one of three" AOF, though, and that makes me hesitate.

That's a good point, actually, and I was kind of rambly in explaining it. Let's see. They're sneaky, disciplined and coldly, unflinchingly competent... Hm. I like the idea of "pick a target and bring it down". How to reflect that without being OP or stepping on the toes of Dominions or Retributors?

I like the idea of having Sniper, but as you said, that gets weird on meltas (they usually wound on a 2 and pierce armor anyway, what difference would it make?), and it makes no earthly sense on flamers. I mean, I'd never *give* them flamers, for the same reason that I'd never give Dominions flamers, but the option technically does exist. As a thought here - the other two "take four weapons" squads tend to be a little pigeonholed in their weapon choices - Dominions because Ignores Cover is pointless on flamers and marginal on storm bolters, and Retributors because Rending is mostly useless on multi-meltas. They can do well with heavy flamers but I can't say I've ever seen anyone do that. Would it be awful if Vigils had the same sort of thing going? Like, say, an AoF that's mostly only useful on bolters? Like so, perhaps:

Unerring Vengeance: One Use Only. This Act of Faith can be used in your Shooting phase. If successful, all bolt weapons (bolt pistols, boltguns, storm bolters, heavy bolters and combi-weapons firing as bolters) in the squad gain the Sniper special rule until the end of the current phase.

I really like the idea of Sniper, because it gives the Sisters something they don't already have, and, importantly, it gives them a way to bring down high-toughness beasties without just spamming meltaguns or hoping to get lucky with an unwieldy meltabomb attack. Importantly, gargantuan creatures are only wounded on a 6+ by poison, but Sniper and Fleshbane work normally, so this would be outstanding for forcing a bunch of saves on a Wraithknight or Heirodule. As a beneficial side effect, you also get a squad that can easily pick the special weapons out of an enemy unit. This all comes with a unit that would have enough volume of fire to still be a threat even after their AoF is spent.

One other thought - Stealth doesn't add all that much to a unit that has a 6++ already. You mention camo cloaks in the fluff block - why not give them camo cloaks just like Astartes Scouts? Those are +1 to cover saves, but they stack with other sources of Stealth (notably, Night Fighting), which would mean at least a 5+ cover save even if you wind up in a stinky spot where you can't claim any other cover. Purely crunch-wise I'd like to say Shrouded (especially since 25 ppm is getting up there in the same league as Tau Stealth Suits), but it feels unfluffy, so... Hm.

The whole idea has really captured my imagination and I immediately started thinking of things I'd use them for. Yeah, I'm overanalyzing, probably, but to me half the fun of the hobby is geeking over unit synergy and such

 SisterSydney wrote:
Thanks for both compliments and suggestions. The Vigils' Act of Faith is one of the things I'm not fully satisfied with, so I'll ponder your idea. It does seem even more complicated than the current "pick one of three" AOF, though, and that makes me hesitate.

Looking at your Vigil squad, along with its AOF, I feel that it has something of an identity crisis. On the one hand, it presents itself as a marksman unit and consequently tries to fulfill the roles of sniper, anti-monstrous-creature, and anti-vehicle all at the same time. Personally, I think you should just pick one and hone in on it rather than aim for all and making things needlessly complicated. And in that respect, I'd go with the first role - since the army has other options that already fill the latter two. As such, I propose the following:

- Wargear-wise, give them all Sniper rifles, in place of Boltguns
- Special rules: Infiltrate, Precision shots, Cognis weapons (fires Snap shots at BS: 2, 6 auto-hits on Wall of death).
- AOF: +1 to To hit rolls (meaning Precision shots at 5+ or Snap shots at BS: 3) and -2 to opponent's "Look out sir" roles (4+ for ICs and 6 for regular characters).
- Options: Up to 3 Vigils may take items from the Heavy weapon list.

Put together, you get a unit that can bring a fair amount of firepower - more than your average Battle Sister/Celestian squad - while remaining a touch more mobile than your Heavy weapon teams. Gameplay-wise, they make for good campers who're there to take out enemy characters and leaders; though Cognis Heavy flamers would make them really scary at counter-assault. I removed stealth because hiding their presence doesn't seem to be in line with how Sisters operate.

Some great suggestions. I'm on deadline for work now, but I will contemplate.

Would you mind overmuch if I made a stab at drawing up a LibreOffice document version of this and some Battlescribe data files? I'd like to playtest the heck out of this (and, y'know, do some cool conversions and kitbashes and have an excuse to field some cool-looking third party models), and Battlescribe or LibreOffice versions would make this a lot easier. I'll make them available if you want too, once I find a decent place to do so.

Also, a minor aside - was thinking about the cost of purity seals. It seems to me they're actually less than half as useful as a Psyker level, since that Psyker level gives you powers to cast. Also, every source for a Psyker level except on an Inquisitor is 25 points versus 30. (Reference - C:CSM, C:Chaos Daemons, C:Harlequins, C:SM, C:AM, C:BA, C:SW, C:GK) Therefore I'd propose making them 5 points, but in the interest of erring on the high side, maybe 7 is reasonable. At 7, I'd take them on Superiors sometimes (especially Retributors, Vigils and backfield gunline units), while at 15 I'd pretty much only take them on a Canoness or maybe a Palatine because anyone else dies too easily.

Would I mind? I'd be delighted -- especially by the playtesting. Let me clean up that first post and email you a .doc or .txt file of it, though, before you put in the effort of formatting/inputting it.

And you make a good point about Purity Seals. I think 5 is too low, but I can see dividing the utility of a 25-point Mastery level between, say, 15 point' worth of offense and 10 points of defense. How about 10 ppm for Purity Seals?

10 makes good sense, actually. Combined with AW, those extra dice are rather more valuable (at least against Maledictions and Witchfires - denying Blessings at all is kind of a crapshoot without mass numbers of dice.)

I'll PM you my email address.

I've updated the first post with a thoroughly revised and reformatted version. Besides cleaning things up, Vigils now get Sniper through their Act of Faith and Sororitas tanks can squadron -- including Exorcists -- because if the Marines can do it, c'mon. (I didn't have the chutzpah to give special perks for a full 3-vehicle squadron, though). I've also put all the new options for existing units into one section towards the top, rather than having them scattered among the new units, and I've put all the design notes together in one set of spoiler tags at the bottom, where they can be safely ignored.

Looking good Sydney!

Hey guys, I finished my 7th edition fan dex for the Sisters of battle AKA Adepta Sororitas.

So this is the first draft, taken some community ideas and added a lot of my own.
It contains a few historical special characters, including the Sisters of silence.

New unit options, a new flame tank, upgrades to Seraphim, Redepmtionist, ect

Rules for the big Orders Militant (Ala Chapter tactics) new formations and a detachment.

Still needs some work so I'd appreciate the help.

It's set up like the new 7th edition codexes but with a few blank pages so I can shift stuff
around. My photoshop fu is weak so it's set up on a spread sheet but its a viewable PDF.

Let me know what you think

http://anjetto.deviantart.com/art/codex-Adepta-Sororitas-540830046?ga_submit_new=10%253A1434776202

Downloaded. I'm about to pack my kids into a car and drive for three hours on vacation, but on arrival I'll find a chance to read. I already see that you've got some cool art -- yours or friends' or found?

Also, Celtic, please post a link in this thread to your own thread where people can comment on your stuff. If people comment on your stuff in this thread, we will all get very confused very fast....