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 Asherian Command wrote:

The plasma "bolts" fired by these weapons explode on impact and generate the destructive heat of a small sun,

Thats from the space marine codex.

This probably says alot about how thick space marine and leman russ armor is in general as it is able to withstand a sun. As apparently melta weapons are even stronger. But the trade off being a melta weapon runs out of ammo quite quickly compared to a plasma weapon, and a plasma weapon is meant as an anti-infantry weapon.

That mainly says a lot about your understanding of physics.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Mark of Calth is techincally noncanon and not taking place in the world of 40k. Its an interpretation. When in parts of the lore mostly the Horus Heresy book supplied by GW ie. the Collected visions says this is not true and has space marines fighting on the surface of Calth.

This is a contradiction and one that means that the mark of Calth is non-canon.

Ahh it doesn’t support your prefect image of space marines, so you discard the entire novel as non-canon. That’s rich.

Sorry Ash, but nothing I quoted contradicts the Collected version. I have that book as well, so don’t try and lie again to get yourself out of this. I’ll notice it immediately if you try it.

Combat does indeed take place on Calth's surface, but it happens during the night time and only for a limited time, as prolonged exposure to the surface erodes the power armor’s protective qualities.

 Asherian Command wrote:

Watching Morgoth trash talk others, when he himself is notorious for getting everything wrong on so many treads.

I have seen that several times. He has already made several wrong statements.

However, in this case his comment about you is 100% correct.
Instead of getting offended, maybe you should take this opportunity to reflect upon your behavior and find a way to improve it.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

The plasma "bolts" fired by these weapons explode on impact and generate the destructive heat of a small sun,

Thats from the space marine codex.

This probably says alot about how thick space marine and leman russ armor is in general as it is able to withstand a sun. As apparently melta weapons are even stronger. But the trade off being a melta weapon runs out of ammo quite quickly compared to a plasma weapon, and a plasma weapon is meant as an anti-infantry weapon.

That mainly says a lot about your understanding of physics.

Not really. ITs more their understanding of physics.

Not my own.

I am using their physics not real world physics. 40ks is very unique as it ignores certain rules and things. But think of the plasma bolt as basically being incased in a solid projectile but once it reachs the target their is a chemical reaction that helps spread the actual star. Its a miniature explosion that has the heat of the sun, but big as a star.

We have not seen this weapon in action for all we know this weapon also causes severe graviational pulls from the creations of objects. Its fed constantly from the plasma. As Plasma in 40k explodes.

Which either means their plasma is extremely advanced or beyond our understanding. The only drawback is it gets hot.

Ahh it doesn’t support your prefect image of space marines, so you discard the entire novel as non-canon. That’s rich.

Sorry Ash, but nothing I quoted contradicts the Collected version. I have that book as well, so don’t try and lie again to get yourself out of this. I’ll notice it immediately if you try it.

Combat does indeed take place on surface on Calth, but it happens during the night time and only for a limited time, as prolonged exposure to the surface erodes the power armor’s protective qualities.

Read Lyantas Comment. Anything made by the black library or TFG are techincally non-canon or proganda.

Yes it does many of the things you have quoted contradict it. The book does not say anything about the radiation, as there was fighting on the surface of calth as well even after the explosion.

^Last time you said it was impossible for space marines to fight on there.

Now you are saying they can only at night!

However, in this case his comment about you is 100% correct.
Instead of getting offended, maybe you should take this opportunity to reflect upon your behavior and find a way to improve it.

Hmm? How am I doing that? Maybe you are quoting the wrong bit.

This is me agreeing with someone that Morgoth has said some incorrect things.

 Redcruisair wrote:
I have that book as well, so don’t try and lie again to get yourself out of this.

Sun, do not rise in the east and set in the west!

 Asherian Command wrote:
I am using their physics not real world physics.

You are using your own version of physics .

 Asherian Command wrote:
We have not seen this weapon in action for all we know this weapon also causes severe graviational pulls from the creations of objects. Its fed constantly from the plasma. As Plasma in 40k explodes.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Which either means their plasma is extremely advanced or beyond our understanding.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Read Lyantas Comment. Anything made by the black library or TFG are techincally non-canon or proganda.

I am unsure of what is going on ITT.

Half the thread seems to compare game mechanics to fluff and vice versa.

Besides, Prophet would kill them all anyway.

The Doom marine too.

I think the best matchup is clone troopers vs Halo Spartans.

You are using your own version of physics .

According to 40k humans can survive in space, their ships are able to turn in space even though you need a engine to push you to that direction to turn you need an engine to push it in space.

According to 40k there is a thing called a pysker.

According to 40k the most powerful creatures in existence are created from emotions and thoughts.

Please tell me how you can think that 40k can have any reasonable grasp of physics if it has alot of things that are impossible in real life?

I am unsure of what is going on ITT.

Half the thread seems to compare game mechanics to fluff and vice versa.

Besides, Prophet would kill them all anyway.

The Doom marine too.

Prophet?

I think the best matchup is clone troopers vs Halo Spartans.

I don't think so.

Spartans and Starcraft Marines would be quite interesting match up though.

I think the starcraft marines might have a chance as long as they are smart.

 Asherian Command wrote:

You are using your own version of physics .

According to 40k humans can survive in space, their ships are able to turn in space even though you need a engine to push you to that direction to turn you need an engine to push it in space.

According to 40k there is a thing called a pysker.

According to 40k the most powerful creatures in existence are created from emotions and thoughts.

Please tell me how you can think that 40k can have any reasonable grasp of physics if it has alot of things that are impossible in real life?

Remember that this is an alternate universe. It can have totally different physics

 Dalek Sec wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

You are using your own version of physics .

According to 40k humans can survive in space, their ships are able to turn in space even though you need a engine to push you to that direction to turn you need an engine to push it in space.

According to 40k there is a thing called a pysker.

According to 40k the most powerful creatures in existence are created from emotions and thoughts.

Please tell me how you can think that 40k can have any reasonable grasp of physics if it has alot of things that are impossible in real life?

Remember that this is an alternate universe. It can have totally different physics

Yes everytime I raise a point people just ignore it and start poking fun.

Different universes could have different rules in terms of physics.

 Asherian Command wrote:
According to 40k humans can survive in space, their ships are able to turn in space even though you need a engine to push you to that direction to turn you need an engine to push it in space.

Have you heard? We sent some people on the moon. This implies them surviving in space (well, inside the ship, of course, but I doubt 40k has human surviving in space without any kind of suit), and their ship was able to turn in space, just like most satellites actually!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
According to 40k humans can survive in space, their ships are able to turn in space even though you need a engine to push you to that direction to turn you need an engine to push it in space.

Have you heard? We sent some people on the moon. This implies them surviving in space (well, inside the ship, of course, but I doubt 40k has human surviving in space without any kind of suit), and their ship was able to turn in space, just like most satellites actually!

Your just acting stupid.

ACcording to 40k there are humans who survive without their helmets. (IE Imperial guard)

It doesn't imply your just being extremely rude and constantly trying to close this thread and trolling

You have not helped in this discussion and have only caused strife hybrid.

 Asherian Command wrote:
ACcording to 40k there are humans who survive without their helmets. (IE Imperial guard)

Outside of some plant with a compatible atmosphere? Source? Because inside some earth-like atmosphere… yeah, this happens a lot.

 Asherian Command wrote:
You have not helped in this discussion and have only caused strife hybrid.

Sure. I did, while you were exemplar. That is what everyone seems to be agreeing upon.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
ACcording to 40k there are humans who survive without their helmets. (IE Imperial guard)

Outside of some plant with a compatible atmosphere? Source? Because inside some earth-like atmosphere… yeah, this happens a lot.

 Asherian Command wrote:
You have not helped in this discussion and have only caused strife hybrid.

Sure. I did, while you were exemplar. That is what everyone seems to be agreeing upon.

There are certain guardsmen that do not wear helmets and fight without their helmets in space. IE CAdia some of the pictures have guardsmen without their helmets and breathers on.

You have been?

I am telling you to stop being a jerk to people.

 Asherian Command wrote:
There are certain guardsmen that do not wear helmets and fight without their helmets in space. IE CAdia some of the pictures have guardsmen without their helmets and breathers on.

Source.

 Asherian Command wrote:
I am telling you to stop being a jerk to people.

And I am telling you, try to look at your own behavior.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Read Lyantas Comment. Anything made by the black library or TFG are techincally non-canon or proganda.

I respect Lyanta as I would any other human being, but I’m not in any way obliged to adopt her interpretation GW’s products. BL has GW’s mark upon it, that’s all that is needed for it to be cannon.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Yes it does many of the things you have quoted contradict it. The book does not say anything about the radiation, as there was fighting on the surface of calth as well even after the explosion.

If the Collected Vision stated the following “Space Marines can operate without peril on the radiated surface of Calth” then you would have a point. However, it doesn’t say anything of the sort, so there's no contradiction.

 Asherian Command wrote:
^Last time you said it was impossible for space marines to fight on there.

NO Ash. This is what I said. Please stop lying.

 Redcruisair wrote:
They also die from radiation on Calth, even while being fully equipped with power armor.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Now you are saying they can only at night!

Yes, at night they can operate on the surface for limited time. It all fits in with what is said about the war of Calth in general. Word Bears attacks Calth. The ultramarines strike back. Both factions are forced below underground. Word Bears loses the underground war and are forced to take shelter in abandoned ruins on the surface. Ultramarines carry out nightly raids on the Word Bears’ few remaining surface-strongholds.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Hmm? How am I doing that? Maybe you are quoting the wrong bit.

This is me agreeing with someone that Morgoth has said some incorrect things.

I referred to the part where he comments on your attitude in this thread. Feel free to go back and re-read his post if you’re unsure of what I mean.

 Asherian Command wrote:


There are certain guardsmen that do not wear helmets and fight without their helmets in space. IE CAdia some of the pictures have guardsmen without their helmets and breathers on.

Using google I can't find any images of guardsmen fighting out of an atmosphere (ie in the vacuum of space) at all.

It is possible for them to fight in an atmosphere which is unbreathable to humans by using breathing equipment. It's no different to the marines in Avatar, or scuba divers. If the atmosphere also had high or low pressure or temperature then they would need more equipment to prevent problems but assuming an atmosphere of earth-like temperature and pressure it is entirely possible to walk around with just an oxygen supply.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:
I have that book as well, so don’t try and lie again to get yourself out of this.

Sun, do not rise in the east and set in the west!

I don’t get the connection here.

 Redcruisair wrote:
I respect Lyanta as I would any other human being, but I’m not in any way obliged to adopt her interpretation GW’s products.

His. Anyhow, Ash is completely misrepresenting what he said.

 Redcruisair wrote:
I don’t get the connection here.

What you were asking of Ash was about as likely to happen as the sun not rising in the east and setting in the west.

Source.

Counterpoint: Read Eye of Terror Campagin booklet. Or play Dawn of War

It happens due to people forgetting about it. Tears in holes of ships look great on artwork, but that would techincally kill everyone on board.

You are only arguing over small details now and only trying to seem like the intelligent party here.

WHich you are quite famous for here for.

NO Ash. This is what I said. Please stop lying.

Shesh I am not lying I just misremembered.

His. Anyhow, Ash is completely misrepresenting what he said.

Not really I agree with the point that there is a common ground. We should use the common ground, but we should always use it with a grain of salt. The other sources outside of it are interpretations you just misunderstood what Lyanta said.

It is possible for them to fight in an atmosphere which is unbreathable to humans by using breathing equipment. It's no different to the marines in Avatar, or scuba divers. If the atmosphere also had high or low pressure or temperature then they would need more equipment to prevent problems but assuming an atmosphere of earth-like temperature and pressure it is entirely possible to walk around with just an oxygen supply.

They need suits to help protect the whole body any human having any hand or skin exposed in space will instantly be.... well. I have no idea because I don't think there are any cases of humans dying in space in real life.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Counterpoint: Read Eye of Terror Campagin booklet. Or play Dawn of War

I do not remember anything like it in them. Dawn of war happens on some goddamn planet, not in space.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Tears in holes of ships look great on artwork, but that would techincally kill everyone on board.

Unless they master the strange, arcane technology known as walls, and sealing doors.

 Asherian Command wrote:
You are only arguing over small details now and only trying to seem like the intelligent party here.

WHich you are quite famous for here for.

Everyone is having a problem with your behavior on this thread, Ash. Nobody is having any with mine. You got your own thread in Off Topic closed by a mod that told you how your behavior was making good discussions impossible.

 Asherian Command wrote:
The other sources outside of it are interpretations you just misunderstood what Lyanta said.

Let us ask him.

Let us ask him.

Thats what it says Hybrid. This isn't the first time there has been an argument over Starcraft Marines vs Space Marines.

This isn't the first time this thread has come up. You have only brought up the same points that others have already brought up. Time and time again this has been asked.

And everytime the answer is overwhelmingly Space Marines win everytime.

Against other races such as the protoss maybe. But we have no idea how to compare the two as we don't have any numbers or anything like that to compare and contrast the two. Unlike Starwars and Star Trek which do.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/240/497426.page#5149236
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/405040.page#3466909
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/270/388574.page#3287670
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/329976.page#2154638
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/324945.page#2146020
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/294632.page#1574266
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/315415.page#1920793
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/180/299523.page#1662012
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/810/263450.page#1586359
http://www.warcamel.com/forums/40k-general/warhammer-vs-starcraft-whos-better-space-marine
http://www.gamespot.com/forums/offtopic-discussion-314159273/deadliest-warrior-terran-marines-vs-space-marines-26905021/
http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/starcraft-marine-vs-40k-space-marine.170093/
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/space-marine-warhammer-40000-runs-the-halostarcraf-623215/
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=438922
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/921969-Space-Marines-vs-Anything-and-everything-from-Starcraft


And thats only the first results.

May I continue while you helpless try to prove me wrong over and over on STarcraft vs Space Marines?

Face it you lost this debate.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Tears in holes of ships look great on artwork, but that would techincally kill everyone on board.

Unless they master the strange, arcane technology known as walls, and sealing doors.

Indeed, in one of the Ciaphas Cain books there is a hull breach on one of the troopships. They just close pressure doors leading to intact areas of the ship, just like you would do in a modern seafaring warship (and with less complications, you don't have to worry about your spaceship sinking if too much of it fills with water). Anybody on the wrong side of the pressure door who doesn't get to an escape pod dies.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Tears in holes of ships look great on artwork, but that would techincally kill everyone on board.

Unless they master the strange, arcane technology known as walls, and sealing doors.

Indeed, in one of the Ciaphas Cain books there is a hull breach on one of the troopships. They just close pressure doors leading to intact areas of the ship, just like you would do in a modern seafaring warship (and with less complications, you don't have to worry about your spaceship sinking if too much of it fills with water). Anybody on the wrong side of the pressure door who doesn't get to an escape pod dies.

While true there have also been cases where the imperium has pulled off insanely physically impossible stunts.

The rules of 40k's universe are unknown to us for all we know their version of plasma is either stupid or impossible.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Thats what it says Hybrid. This isn't the first time there has been an argument over Starcraft Marines vs Space Marines.

Let us ask Lynata if you misrepresented what he said when you summarized it as “Only GW studio fluff is cannon, the rest is not cannon”.

 Asherian Command wrote:
May I continue while you helpless try to prove me wrong over and over on STarcraft vs Space Marines?

Face it you lost this debate.

See? That is part of your attitude problem.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Tears in holes of ships look great on artwork, but that would techincally kill everyone on board.

Unless they master the strange, arcane technology known as walls, and sealing doors.

Indeed, in one of the Ciaphas Cain books there is a hull breach on one of the troopships. They just close pressure doors leading to intact areas of the ship, just like you would do in a modern seafaring warship (and with less complications, you don't have to worry about your spaceship sinking if too much of it fills with water). Anybody on the wrong side of the pressure door who doesn't get to an escape pod dies.

While true there have also been cases where the imperium has pulled off insanely physically impossible stunts.

The rules of 40k's universe are unknown to us for all we know their version of plasma is either stupid or impossible.

But how many of them are guardsmen surviving exposure to the vacuum of space, which is what you originally claimed?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Tears in holes of ships look great on artwork, but that would techincally kill everyone on board.

Unless they master the strange, arcane technology known as walls, and sealing doors.

Indeed, in one of the Ciaphas Cain books there is a hull breach on one of the troopships. They just close pressure doors leading to intact areas of the ship, just like you would do in a modern seafaring warship (and with less complications, you don't have to worry about your spaceship sinking if too much of it fills with water). Anybody on the wrong side of the pressure door who doesn't get to an escape pod dies.

While true there have also been cases where the imperium has pulled off insanely physically impossible stunts.

The rules of 40k's universe are unknown to us for all we know their version of plasma is either stupid or impossible.

But how many of them are guardsmen surviving exposure to the vacuum of space, which is what you originally claimed?

I was quite wrong in that regard. I forgot that was in Old Mans War. :/ Which does. My bad.

 Asherian Command wrote:
I was quite wrong in that regard. I forgot that was in Old Mans War. :/ Which does. My bad.

See? That is winning an argument. Just saying “I win this debate” is not.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
I was quite wrong in that regard. I forgot that was in Old Mans War. :/ Which does. My bad.

See? That is winning an argument. Just saying “I win this debate” is not.

Stop gloating, gloating leads to quite a bad complexion of ideas.

Ash, do you also admit to be wrong about space marines being immune to the radiation of Calth?

You seem to be in an honest mood right now so… perhaps we can finally have you concede that point.

 Redcruisair wrote:
Ash, do you also admit to be wrong about space marines being immune to the radiation of Calth?

You seem to be in an honest mood right now so… perhaps we can finally have you concede that point.

I did already. There are many sources that say Calth's surface is unlivable but the space marines armor in later marks can deal with it. Different marks have different versions of protection against different threats, the mark 3 and mark 1 being notorious for being inadequate protection in space.. It really matters on which legion it is. The Deathguard more than likely being more immune.

It would be quite stupid that Calth is still unable to be fought on the surface. Even though Telion and his Scouts apparently did fight on its surface when fighting old one eye. Which either means they fought underground, or..... They were fighting in the trench network. AS it states specifically a cavern.

But who knows 40k lore has been known to contradict itself