Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It's absolutely fine.
In local tournaments however we don't allow superheavies and D weapons.

Forge World?

Love it. Rounds out my Sisters nicely, and lets me field the Guard (aircav) army I want.

 Pyeatt wrote:

I don't really want to live in a world where my opponent writes my list.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/624238.page

I don't see the relevance of the link. Looks like a listbuilding competition

Lost at why this is even a question in the current edition. They are nicer looking models and at this point more balanced rules than what GW is putting out. Just have to treat the lists as you would any other codex and change your tactics accordingly. Against HH stuff a general take all comers list will serve far better than something tailored due to the massive list opportunities given to the HH guy, ie. there is not one list you are going to see unless you know what the guy is bringing in advance.

You guys must be lucky then, because my forgeworld experiences have been nothing but bad. 5 people in the area here own forgeworld, and they are not helping its name. None of them run fluffy, side grade units. They are all over the top crap. A 400 point stompa. a land raider immune to melta way better than the old crusader. Sabre platforms that I JUST found out have been updated, of course the grognard running them would never tell you. New more annoying flavors of riptides which already are cheese to begin with.

Now I have looked at forgeworld, and many things have good balance compared to standard stuff. But this isn't what people are buying and playing here. Our store banned forgeworld a few years ago from any official tournaments, and nobody cared except 2 people who people generally dident like playing against anyway, for the previously mentioned reasons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Col. Dash wrote:
Lost at why this is even a question in the current edition. They are nicer looking models and at this point more balanced rules than what GW is putting out. Just have to treat the lists as you would any other codex and change your tactics accordingly. Against HH stuff a general take all comers list will serve far better than something tailored due to the massive list opportunities given to the HH guy, ie. there is not one list you are going to see unless you know what the guy is bringing in advance.

I disagree. They can be more balanced than some of the 6th ed stuff that came out, but the 7th ed codex have been so bland and underpowered compared to say the tau or elder dex, that forgeworld has power creeped past much of the current codex, so that argument dosent hold water anymore.

I don't mind playing against them casually. I'll play against anything at least once.

I've only played in 3 local tournaments, and Forgeworld units were dissallowed in all 3 (2 tourneys also banned Lords of War).

There's a time and place for everything, I suppose.

I'm happy to play anything that introduces new stuff and more variety to the game, so FW, Supplement or home-made, go for it.

I don't like FW. Then again, I've only ever seen people use FW to attempt to break the game in their favor and proceed to whine about its legality when the local GW disallows their use.

lustigjh wrote:
I don't like FW. Then again, I've only ever seen people use FW to attempt to break the game in their favor and proceed to whine about its legality when the local GW disallows their use.

Damn..even GW stores ban Forgeworld? I wouldn't have thought that was the case.

In my experience, people who don´t want to play against FW are usually inexperienced, prejudice, or both. Some think Forgeworld units are overpowered by default ( some are, but so are some Codex units. ) I haven´t played a FW model I couldn´t deal with.

Common argument I hear is that superheavies are overpowered. Couldn´t be further from the truth. The only point effective super heavy in the game is an Imperial Knight. There´s a reason you don´t see superheavy tanks dominating the high end tournaments ( the ones they are allowed in to begin with. )

Personally, I have nothing against fielding them. They bring cool variety and nice looking additions to any army. And in the end, rules-wise they are completely legal aslong as you abide the different classifications for game types.

I use a Typhon Heavy Siege Tank and Chaos Hellblade myself.

 Orock wrote:
A 400 point stompa....

What's wrong with the Klaw Stompa ?

 Orock wrote:
You guys must be lucky then, because my forgeworld experiences have been nothing but bad. 5 people in the area here own forgeworld, and they are not helping its name. None of them run fluffy, side grade units. They are all over the top crap. A 400 point stompa. a land raider immune to melta way better than the old crusader. Sabre platforms that I JUST found out have been updated, of course the grognard running them would never tell you. New more annoying flavors of riptides which already are cheese to begin with.

Your problem isn't with FW, it's with TFG's.

Also, any SM Land Raider type vehicle with Armored Ceramite cost roughly as much as two kitted Leman Russ Punishers/Exterminators/Vanquishers/etc.

Now I have looked at forgeworld, and many things have good balance compared to standard stuff. But this isn't what people are buying and playing here. Our store banned forgeworld a few years ago from any official tournaments, and nobody cared except 2 people who people generally dident like playing against anyway, for the previously mentioned reasons.

Again, seems you've got a TFG problem, not an FW problem. I'm guessing these guys aren't exactly running fluffy and friendly lists when FW isn't involved?

I disagree. They can be more balanced than some of the 6th ed stuff that came out, but the 7th ed codex have been so bland and underpowered compared to say the tau or elder dex, that forgeworld has power creeped past much of the current codex, so that argument dosent hold water anymore.

FW hasn't powercreeped passed anything anymore than the 6E stuff has, FW hasn't come out with much stuff in 7E yet, and once you start bringing in formations, dataslates, multiple detachments, allies, etc then FW still isn't anything spectacular. The most abuseable things in the game are still not anything wrought from FW.

 cvtuttle wrote:
three years ago I predicted that in 5 years we would all wonder why people were so bent out of shape about including Forge World models/rules in their games.

I think we are getting there a lot quicker than I originally expected.

We have played with FW rules and models for at least the last 6 years and have never looked back.

Or maybe people that didn't like FW, but were forced to use it , left the game. The group in my city went from 100+ playing tournaments +double that of new people to around 40 in this christmas tournament and no new people in sight.

No one liked the fact that the anwser to playing IG in 6th was , buy 6-9 saber weapon platforms. Or that FW brings units that are the same, but better then codex ones. The D madness at the end of 6th turned of more people then I can think of. Shops closing didn't drive as many people away as ~800pts quad D templates.

7th didn't change it. chaos suddenly got BB wyverns. The anwser to eldar is runing 3 FW predators. It is stupid considering how hard it is to track the rules and how easy it is for people buy recasts, making all people who bought normal armies feel like fools.

The most abuseable things in the game are still not anything wrought from

So we should be thankful that FW doesn't make as much eldar or necron stuff as it does marines?

I f they have never looked in a fw rule book they associate fw with titans and there for every things op.

If you take issue with FW then you have to take issue with GW too. FW just builds on what GW has already established in a lot of cases.

I personally hater very very bad conversions of FW models, especially the really good ones(Like Sabres that are just ADL cannons on a large base)
Other then that, have at it.

I will admit feeling a certain amount of smugness in 5th edition when I put down my Hydras and LR Extermaintors against the guy who endlessly gave me gak for wanting to use them in 4th edition because they didn't have "official" rules. Of course, he still took issue that I wanted to use Salamander command tanks.

Makumba wrote:

Or maybe people that didn't like FW, but were forced to use it , left the game. The group in my city went from 100+ playing tournaments +double that of new people to around 40 in this christmas tournament and no new people in sight.

And is that the fault of FW or of GW for making an absurd ruleset?

No one liked the fact that the anwser to playing IG in 6th was , buy 6-9 saber weapon platforms.

Which lasted for a little over a year. One of the shortest lifespans of any "cheese" build in the history of 40k.

Or that FW brings units that are the same, but better then codex ones.

Such as?

The D madness at the end of 6th turned of more people then I can think of. Shops closing didn't drive as many people away as ~800pts quad D templates.

And guess who wrote the rules for D weapons, wrote the rules for the titans, and wrote the rules for allowing the titans in normal games? GW, not FW. FW just casts the resin at this point.

7th didn't change it. chaos suddenly got BB wyverns.

That's an issue with GW making silly rules for the Wyvern, not FW for making a fluffy chaos IG list that can ally with Chaos Space Marines (who are hardly overpowered in the first place).

The anwser to eldar is runing 3 FW predators. It is stupid considering how hard it is to track the rules and how easy it is for people buy recasts, making all people who bought normal armies feel like fools.

So...since when are recasts unique to FW, and what FW predator is going to hardcounter Eldar more than normal Predators?

Vaktathi wrote:]The most abuseable things in the game are still not anything wrought from FW

So we should be thankful that FW doesn't make as much eldar or necron stuff as it does marines?

Which has nothing to do with the point I was making there. Furthermore, why is that an issue for FW but not for GW's primary studio that currently has 11 different Space Marine books of various types out?

FW has released a good deal of Necron stuff, a new Necron army list complete with warlord table and unique characters, likewise FW has also come out with lots of great Eldar stuff and an Eldar corairs list, more new stuff than they've gotten from GW in quite some time.

 jasper76 wrote:
Damn..even GW stores ban Forgeworld? I wouldn't have thought that was the case.

A lot of GW's have chosen to not allow them over the years, yes... Due to the models not being sold in store.

 insaniak wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Damn..even GW stores ban Forgeworld? I wouldn't have thought that was the case.

A lot of GW's have chosen to not allow them over the years, yes... Due to the models not being sold in store.

Thankfully the GW store I go to doesn't have them banned. Quite the opposits in fact, the store manager likes to recommend FW models and bits.

As long as you have a copy of the rules, and either actual models or suitable conversions, most of my group has no problem with it.

One of the guys who games at my LFGS has a Wraithseer and had the old rules for it. I was ncie enough to give him up-to-date rules so people would be willing to play against it.

 insaniak wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Damn..even GW stores ban Forgeworld? I wouldn't have thought that was the case.

A lot of GW's have chosen to not allow them over the years, yes... Due to the models not being sold in store.

Where does that leave anyone who doesn't have a LOW made by GW then ?

I would take a FW book over a supplement any day.

Tell me supplements are banned before you tell me FW does not belong there. One has fluff, the other has rules.

Forgeworld stuff is just little army toys..on a table with other little army toys..all with made up rules to justify grown ups (and some not so grown ups) playing with them and socializing with a purpose.

FW is better at writing rules than any of the 40k Codex writers, that's for sure.

Some use FW to extend the army and the possibilities.
Some use FW to gain access to more broken stuff.

Luckily all the FW I play with or against falls in the first category.

 Vaktathi wrote:

The anwser to eldar is runing 3 FW predators. It is stupid considering how hard it is to track the rules and how easy it is for people buy recasts, making all people who bought normal armies feel like fools.

So...since when are recasts unique to FW, and what FW predator is going to hardcounter Eldar more than normal Predators?

I think he's talking about the Sicarian. It's got a similar statline but it fires six autocannon shots that ignore Jink.

I guess that's what he was referring to, but it's very much not a Predator

The Imperial Answer wrote:
Where does that leave anyone who doesn't have a LOW made by GW then ?

Screwed, but you think a GW store cares? It's just an opportunity for you to buy a plastic Baneblade kit from them. And really, this isn't surprising at all. It's the inevitable result of GW's obsession with individual store performance, where spending $X from home and picking it up at the local GW store doesn't count as a sale for that store and the store's facebook page is full of posts from the employee begging you to come into the store to use their computer to make your online purchases. The fact that you're still spending $X on GW products doesn't matter, the employee needs to meet their personal sales quota and anything that threatens their quota needs to be banned.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
And guess who wrote the rules for D weapons, wrote the rules for the titans, and wrote the rules for allowing the titans in normal games? GW, not FW. FW just casts the resin at this point.

Yeah, this needs to be emphasized: all of the current Apocalypse/LoW rules were written by "main" GW. The original FW rules for those units were much weaker, and you'd have virtually no chance of winning if you used them in the current game. No 7"/10" blasts, no D-weapons, superheavies had to move and pivot like flyers, etc. For example, the Warhound's double turbolaser (STR D, 5" blast in the current rules) was STR 9 AP 2 with only a 3" blast and a Warhound with two of them would cost almost 150 points more than the current one. The Baneblade had only a 5" blast for its main gun (same stats otherwise) and cost about 200 points more.