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 MWHistorian wrote:
Wow! This sounds horrible. My brother and his wife have nice fantasy armies. Now I get to tell them their armies are pretty much invalidated. Sure, they can continue to play the old unsupported dexes, but how long can that last?

Until some details are confirmed there are a lot of rumours and not much fact, so what would you tell them?

Perhaps if GW weren't so secretive and a bit more aware of what is discussed on social media they could head off panic causing rumours. It won't be long until people are asking shop staff what the deal is going to be this summer.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:


Perhaps if GW weren't so secretive and a bit more aware of what is discussed on social media they could head off panic causing rumours. It won't be long until people are asking shop staff what the deal is going to be this summer.

Except... well... store staff don't know anything.

unmercifulconker wrote:Its so hard not to get worked up, im refreshing like mad in hopes to read from a source saying this is bull

Pocket realities maaan.....pocket realitiiiiiiieeeesss.

It's been done already.

Mysterious Pants wrote:It just doesn't make sense that they'd drop that much and do such a risky move, potentially alienating all the current Warhammer fans.

Seems more likely that we'll have a 9th edition with the End Times modifications to the core rules mixed in, and they'll leave things floating in the air to focus on the (more-profitable) 40k line. Think about it: why spend effort trying to develop a bunch of books that would be obsolete in months, why cut their army count in half, why frustrate more of their playerbase, why get rid of their current sculpts, and why waste money reinventing the wheel?

I'm not saying that these rumors aren't true, but I'm just saying that it's a good idea to take them with a grain of salt.

And maybe all the people who are panicking and up in arms about the changes will look back after summer and say...

Spoiler:

I agree that its still just a rumour. But gw has a pretty clear track record at this point, and this seems like something they would do. Don't forget this is the company that destroyed it's surplus dreadfleet stock rather than sell it at a discount to try and move it. Sprues for pennies, why not?

AlexHolker wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Interesting post DD.

Interesting, but wrong-headed. This is not "just business", it is self-destructive cowardice. Refusing to contest the lower price brackets, the name "Imperial Guard", space games, skirmish games and generic fantasy races doesn't make these things go away, it just creates room for their competitors to take root and grow. Games Workshop has a ton of kits which are currently in the "sprues for pennies" stage of development - it would have been better to take advantage of that to deny these markets to the competition, to salt the earth so that their competitors could not grow there, and generate goodwill at the same time.

In other words, another day at gw hq.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
So old players are being respected by letting them switch to round bases thus invalidating every single model they own and allowing them to continue playing with the old editions, yet with the round bases and less unit selection makes collecting for old edition games near impossible?

I call "SALT!" on the round bases. I believe everything else, though.

Why? The best way to make WFB unique is to move to round bases. It reduces their SKUs as they can use the same both systems. I wonder if they'll make the unit sizes 8? So they can use the WoTR trays. (edit just realized this will not work as they will not fit the new 32mm rounds)

I am pulling out my WoTR to see how that may go. It was one of their best systems no matter the popularity.

 Kosake wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
What if they aren't talking about short runs that sell out in pre-orders in 5 minutes, but kits that are available for a year or so until the next yearly game update? There's a LOT of middle ground between "instant sell-out" and "available forever."

Just wanted to interject that into the conversation. Carry on with the panic.

Technically yes, but since GW managed to botch everything they put their mind to for quite a while now and have an explicit history of having stuff sell out during pre-orders or shortly after, a bit of mistrust is pretty much to be expected.

I've had to do some product scavenger hunts myself in recent months, so I understand. But I hazard to guess that between the stuff that sits on the shelves of retailers and the secondary market, that availability won't be a major issue for a decent period of time.

I realize that the rumors suggest that there will be core units that are always available. But especially when they're launching this thing, it'd be a pretty big buzzkill if the first wave of non-core kits disappeared in a few months. The fact that they're rebooting the game means that they want it to succeed. They could have just left it alone and let it continue on its current path to irrelevance.

Plus, given the collections that people already own, I suspect we'll see lots of proxying when possible. Not everyone is going to buy the new not-Rat Ogres Skaven monstrous infantry unit, right? And we'll probably see plenty of Warriors of Nice with poofy sleeves or fleur-de-lis.

There's nothing I dislike about any of these rumours. I've never played Warhammer Fantasy, only 40k, but pretty much everything they've released for Fantasy in the last five years has been brilliant. The recent Dark Elves and Undead stuff (as well as the Nurgle End Times stuff), particularly. Unless something bizarre happens and the quality suddenly drops between now and summer, I imagine the models for the "new" fantasy will be excellent. So I'm looking forward to it.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Wow! This sounds horrible. My brother and his wife have nice fantasy armies. Now I get to tell them their armies are pretty much invalidated. Sure, they can continue to play the old unsupported dexes, but how long can that last?

8th edition is in a good spot. It wouldn't be terrible to continue using it. There aren't any glaring flaws or mega imbalances in the base game.

A simple third part FAQ/Errata would be sufficient to make it a great game.

Has anyone guessed at how the current 15 armies would be broken down to 6?
1: Demons, Warriors, Beastmen
2: Tombkings, VC
3: Empire, Brettonia
4: All The Elves!
5: Skaven
6: Lizardmen

That still leaves Ogres, O+G, and Dwarves.
Maybe they'll break it down Good/Neutral/Evil lines? With new magical names of course.

So Lawful Good (Humans and Dwarve), Chaotic Good (Elves), Lawful Neutral (Lizardmen), Chaotic Neutral (Ogres and O+G), Lawful Evil (Undead), Chaotic Evil (Chaos and Skaven)

That's still super sloppy. It's hard to imagine several armies sticking around if 6 really is the number.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Interesting post DD.

Interesting, but wrong-headed. This is not "just business", it is self-destructive cowardice. Refusing to contest the lower price brackets, the name "Imperial Guard", space games, skirmish games and generic fantasy races doesn't make these things go away, it just creates room for their competitors to take root and grow. Games Workshop has a ton of kits which are currently in the "sprues for pennies" stage of development - it would have been better to take advantage of that to deny these markets to the competition, to salt the earth so that their competitors could not grow there, and generate goodwill at the same time.

Better for GW, you assume. Worse for all the other players in the industry who are only viable because of the price point that GW have established.
I'm not sure how radically revising one of your core games is 'cowardice'. I'm also not saying it's smart though. The cowardly part comes if they don't really revise things but just shuffle stock around inside a 'new setting' that uses the same game.

Confess I've read this thread with mixed emotions. Always loved the Warhammer Fantasy background and setting, but found the armies very time consuming and clunky to put together and the current rule system is junk IMHO

Put me in the wait and see camp, but can't see myself investing in something new on a massive scale. I can't see GW getting it right either.

I could see Ogres going into the Chaos group, Lizzies getting dropped altogether and Orcs taking their slot in the 6.

 plastictrees wrote:
Has anyone guessed at how the current 15 armies would be broken down to 6?
1: Demons, Warriors, Beastmen
2: Tombkings, VC
3: Empire, Brettonia, Dwarfs
4: All The Elves!
5: Skaven
6: O&G, OK

If I were a Lizardman player, I would be extremely concerned about the 'the Exodus has begun' line in ET:Nagash.

There are a couple armies like Lizards and OK that I could see being some kind of merc, ally force, but not officially viable as a full force.

Surely darves would still be around? Lumped into another grouping, likely.

I'm hopeful chaos dwarfs are still usable in some fashion, I get the impression they sell well for FW. I'm guessing a pdf / dataslate-like document for using/adding them, and their being considered part of the chaos grouping.

 plastictrees wrote:
Has anyone guessed at how the current 15 armies would be broken down to 6?

It's already been stated:
1. Chaos (Daemons & Warriors & Beasts)
2. Skaven
3. Orcs & Goblins
4. Elves (High & Wood & Dark)
5. Men (Empire & Brets, +Dwarves + Ogres)
6. Undead (Tomb Kings & Vampires)

Lizardmen get Squatted.

Lizardmen shall not become extinct. This is my decree.

Then again you could tinfoil hat but adopt the line GW is going to go IP nutty.
Anything that has significant rivals via other companies goes bye bye.
So Dwarfs, Orcs both go.
Elves might go, leaving possibly Dark Elves.
Undead go too leaving some iteration of them.

So you're left with the more unique IPs
Empire/Brets
Chaos + Daemons
Lizzies
Ogres
Some version of undead
Skaven

Dont care! I have an 8th O&G army to finish with or without GW support. Its my Hobby not GW's or anyone else.

The Bubble reality sounds like finecast is back with a vengeance, creating bigger holes in GW finances.

Lotr bubble, finecast bubble and now wfb bubble. Scary pattern.

 Flashman wrote:
Confess I've read this thread with mixed emotions. Always loved the Warhammer Fantasy background and setting, but found the armies very time consuming and clunky to put together and the current rule system is junk IMHO

Same here, which is why I'd approve fundamental revamping the rules and armybooks, but butchering the setting this extent is completely unnecessary. It is also most bizarre aspect in this, I really don't understand what they hope to gain by that.

GW not officially squatting SoB but presumably squatting Lizardmen?

Yeah...I'm...going to check that truck full of salt in my backyard.

The thing that's annoyed me most about this rumour, is that it's basically hearsay still. Look at like 3rd edition Infinity, we knew about that AT LEAST 6 months before, and that was just a new edition, this is a lot bigger than that. I'd find it easier to swallow if GW actually spelled out exactly what was happening, giving us time to adjust. But know we won't know til the week before and someone gets a dodgy whiet dwarf photo.

Feels a lot like 'we'll keep them in the dark to squeeze every penny we can, then pull the rug from under them'.

Pretty sure O&G are one of WFB's consistently better selling ranges. Seems easy enough to squish them and ogres together (which fills some gameplay gaps).

If it's down to 6, the races will be:
1.) Chaos
2.) Undead
3.) Elves
4.) Something including Greenskins
5.) Skaven
6.) Something including humans (may include other good races)

Torga_DW wrote:

unmercifulconker wrote:Its so hard not to get worked up, im refreshing like mad in hopes to read from a source saying this is bull

Pocket realities maaan.....pocket realitiiiiiiieeeesss.

It's been done already.

Man, who remembers the amiga? Or Betty Boo? Anyone? Anyone...?

Sheck2 wrote:Why? The best way to make WFB unique is to move to round bases.

I...

Wait, what?

It was one of their best systems no matter the popularity.

I'm going to guess this was because half of the others were Warhammer and 40K.

Necros wrote:Lizardmen shall not become extinct. This is my decree.

They'll live on... in our hearts.

 Vermis wrote:

Torga_DW wrote:

unmercifulconker wrote:Its so hard not to get worked up, im refreshing like mad in hopes to read from a source saying this is bull

Pocket realities maaan.....pocket realitiiiiiiieeeesss.

It's been done already.

Man, who remembers the amiga? Or Betty Boo? Anyone? Anyone...?

Sheck2 wrote:Why? The best way to make WFB unique is to move to round bases.

I...

Wait, what?

It was one of their best systems no matter the popularity.

I'm going to guess this was because half of the others were Warhammer and 40K.

Necros wrote:Lizardmen shall not become extinct. This is my decree.

They'll live on... in our hearts.

Betty Boo doing the doo?

Dwarves too will be gone. Squatted just like their 40k brothers..

 Necros wrote:
Lizardmen shall not become extinct. This is my decree.

Tell that to my Dogs of War.



Yeah, that's a full-on Army Book for an army with a then-current full range of models and continued releases in the subsequent edition.

decker_cky wrote:
Pretty sure O&G are one of WFB's consistently better selling ranges. Seems easy enough to squish them and ogres together (which fills some gameplay gaps).

If it's down to 6, the races will be:
1.) Chaos
2.) Undead
3.) Elves
4.) Something including Greenskins
5.) Skaven
6.) Something including humans (may include other good races)

Yeah, I think that's pretty obviously it. The End Times are setting it all up already. And of course the rumors suggest that all these factions will be getting a facelift.

It's also highly possible that they add a faction or two down the road.

I'm fairly neutral towards the fluff /army-organisation stuff -- change is good, if they don't mess it up -- but the new buisness modell, should it be implemented as the rumors state, has me a bit worried.


In a "limited run time" release modell I see way too much temptation for a company too follow a "newer is better" approach, to boost sales.
From a buisness perspective there just is little need to keep "out of print" modells competetive, when all the money comes from new modells.

And let's be honest: GW is a company. The Goal of any company is to make money. When whoever is in charge thinks, that they can get away with charging more, they will do so.

DrunkPhilisoph wrote:
I'm fairly neutral towards the fluff /army-organisation stuff -- change is good, if they don't mess it up -- but the new buisness modell, should it be implemented as the rumors state, has me a bit worried.

In a "limited run time" release modell I see way too much temptation for a company too follow a "newer is better" approach, to boost sales.
From a buisness perspective there just is little need to keep "out of print" modells competetive, when all the money comes from new modells.

And let's be honest: GW is a company. The Goal of any company is to make money. When whoever is in charge thinks, that they can get away with charging more, they will do so.

This is GW, so you have nothing to be worried about.

The idea that they would use limited releases, "newer is better" to boost sales? Ludicrous.

Or that GW would think to get away with charging more? Never gonna happen.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
Has anyone guessed at how the current 15 armies would be broken down to 6?

It's already been stated:
1. Chaos (Daemons & Warriors & Beasts)
2. Skaven
3. Orcs & Goblins
4. Elves (High & Wood & Dark)
5. Men (Empire & Brets, +Dwarves + Ogres)
6. Undead (Tomb Kings & Vampires)

Lizardmen get Squatted.

Lizardmen are too popular. I'd expect them to get rolled in with the Orks & Goblins before getting squatted. I'd also think the Ogres would be rolled into O&G because of the Knoblars.

Maybe the best time to take a closer look on Kings of War.

(and make a petition to get a Kings of War army list for every Warhammer army as soon as the 2. edi is available)

My guess:

1. Chaos (including beastmen, chaos followers, demons and maybe chaos dwarves or somesuch). Skaven may or may not end up here.

2. The fantasy marines with humans, halflings, dwarves and elven auxilliaries

3. Orks, goblins and Ogres

4. Lizzardmen with maybe some other part of the "good" or "neutral" races. A part of the Elves may or may not end up here.

5. Undead of all sorts

6. I assume another evil but not chaos-y or neutral faction. Dark elves + Skaven? Some sort of other habitants of these reality bubbles (think Draenei)?

This sounds exactly like what GW would do to me. Change everything around at the expense of those who have already invested tons o cash, and are probaby all wringed out, hopefully make it less model intensive so you can actually get some new blood interested in buying (remember rules and fluff are not important) and even combine armies together so that anyone that does stay that is invested in say orcs and goblins, now has to invest in ogre kingdoms too to stay competative/make up for their lost units.

Honestly Ill be more suprised if this DOSENT happen.