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 Cothonian wrote:
Thank you much for the quick reply!

I'll admit I'm leaning towards making it more of a cheaper fire support platform, so perhaps if the "Fast" aspect was removed the point cost could be reduced to somewhere around 40 to 45 points?

If it's an armoured car, speed should surely be a defining trait though...

mr. peasant wrote:Interesting idea. However, I'd change the option for free Pulse carbines a little. At the moment, the debate over 2 Pulse pistols vs a Pulse carbine would be +1 attack in close combat versus better range and pinning; in a unit that isn't that great at close combat anyway. Making it a no brainer which of the two is better. Instead, I'd either charge for the Pulse carbines or to instead offer free Pulse rifles instead. Here, the choice would be ability to assault after shooting and +1 attack in close combat versus better range. Incidentally, having Pulse rifles instead of Pulse carbines means that the remaining Pulse pistol still has a use.

Carbines are there because that is what Pathfinders use, and these are just more special, "veteran" Pathfinders. It is an interesting thought on the Pulse Rifles. I don't think anyone presented the concept at the time it was first being developed.

SisterSydney wrote:1) They should be able to Infiltrate.

I can see the point, but part of their situation is to be in Reserves, which Infiltrate won't help them much. Of course, Scout does the same thing, too. So, if I want the Outflank to be in there and they are meant to be in Reserves a lot, I can just put Outflank.

At one point, they were set to Deep Strike much like a couple other units, not scattering when Deep Striking next to Terrain (as if coming out of hiding), but I thought this was getting a little crazy, and those units have since lost this ability, so it was dropped.

SisterSydney wrote:2) The Reserve manipulation rule is too complex and open to interpretation. I'd just change it to the ability to impose a -1 on any enemy reserve roll.

How open to interpretation is it? What do you find complex about it?

If it goes to just a basic -1 to the Reserve Roll, I can see swapping the Scout for Infiltrate, though.

SisterSydney wrote:3) WS:3 I:3 Tau infantry?? At the very least the Initiative needs to drop to 2.

As I said above, these are veterans, used to working on their own. They are the equivalent of Pathfinders who qualify as Stealth Suit pilots, but just never got in to battlesuits. Plus, I think think they spend a little too much time with Kroot, if you know what I'm saying. If they go to I:2, though, I'd almost have to give them A: 2 base, but it would bear investigating.

Only commanders, ethereals and fireblades are I3, even as veterans the pilots of both crisis and stealth suits dont gain a higher initative than 2 so "veteran pathfinders" seem unlikely to gain it.

I'd agree that currently the two pistol option is always worse than the pulse carbine unless you intend to get into CC which shouldnt be a tau units focus (except auxiliaries), you could possibly add in the potential for experimental pistols as weapons which would add more appeal of running the pistol version rather than always taking carbines.

For balance reasons I3 is fine though, and considering they will be engaging in close quarters more often, it would make sense for them to have a higher I (they would take the time to train for it).

Melcavuk wrote:Only commanders, ethereals and fireblades are I3, even as veterans the pilots of both crisis and stealth suits dont gain a higher initative than 2 so "veteran pathfinders" seem unlikely to gain it.

To be fair, when it was first written up and last looked at, the Shas'vre were I3. One could also look at it as they are less encumbered and trained to a higher level.

But it can be switched so that only the team leader is I3, to make it more realistic. I will switch it to that for now.

Melcavuk wrote:I'd agree that currently the two pistol option is always worse than the pulse carbine unless you intend to get into CC which shouldnt be a tau units focus (except auxiliaries), you could possibly add in the potential for experimental pistols as weapons which would add more appeal of running the pistol version rather than always taking carbines.

New pistol options is an interesting idea. Ion, EMP, and/or Rail Pistols could be a little fun, even if it was just for the team leader, but could also be set as options for the Heavy Rifles.

Giving the team leader a "gun-fu" option ala Cypher could be fun as well, but should be reserved for a Unique Character.

Co'tor Shas wrote:For balance reasons I3 is fine though, and considering they will be engaging in close quarters more often, it would make sense for them to have a higher I (they would take the time to train for it).

One reason I don't think people complained about it at the time I first vetted them.

Another option to make these guys more of a close range support unit would be to look at different special weapons to the path finders who by all measures are long range support. You could look into fusion. Haywire, flame weapons as unique elements of these perhaps even with their own drone (hazard support drone with twinlinked flamers for example) as charge deterrents.

Astra Militarum:

Made up of local law enforcement, Imperial Guardsmen and battered PDF units, the Partisan Cells are the remnant of the defenders of an once-prouded Imperial world, banded together to survive and to cause as much damage as possible to the invaders. Operating behind enemy lines, the Partisans disrupt communications, seize posts or villages as forward-operating bases, ambush convoys, raid logistical stockpiles, forcing enemy forces to disperse and protect their base of operations. However, because of the lack of military equipments, the Partisans usually prove to be only a minor nuisance to the occupation force, though their knowledge of local terrain and asymmetrical warfare tactic allows them to sometimes cause heavy damage disproportionates to their size, significantly hamper xeno's or herectic's operations, as well as greatly aid the liberation campaign of Imperial commander- that is, if they arrive at all.

Partisan Cell - Troops
Composition: 1-3 Partisan Rifle Squads, 0-1 Partisan Tank Hunter Squad
Each Astra Militarum detachment may include up to one Partisan Cell for each of its Company Command Squad. They do not qualify as a mandatory Troops choice.

Partisan Rifle Squad - 40 points
Partisan WS:2 BS:3 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:3 A:1 LD:6 Sv6+
Partisan Leader WS:2 BS:3 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:3 A:2 LD:7 Sv6+

Unit Composition: 4 Partisans, 1 Partisan Leader
Unit Type: Infantry; The Partisan Leader is Infantry (Character)

Special Rules: Infiltrate, Scout, Hit & Run, Move Through Cover

Wargear: Partisan rifle, Sub-flak armour

Options:
- May include up to 5 additional Partisans..........8pts/model
- Any model may replace its partisan rifle with a shotgun..........free
- For every five models in the unit, one Partisan may replace his partisan rifle with one of the following:
+ Sniper rifle:..........2 pts/model
+ Home-made Flamer:..........5 pts/model
+ Heavy stubber..........5 pts/model
- The entire unit may take any of the following:
+ Flak armour..........1pt/model
+ Frag grenades..........1pt/model
- The Partisan Leader may take any of the following:
+ Krak grenades:..........2pts
+ Demolition charge:..........20pts



Partisan Tank Hunter Squad - 39 points
Partisan Tank Hunter WS:2 BS:3 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:3 A:1 LD:6 Sv6+
Tank Hunter Leader WS:2 BS:3 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:3 A:1 LD:7 Sv6+

Unit Composition: 2 Partisans Tank Hunters, 1 Tank Hunter Leader
Unit Type: Infantry; The Tank Hunter Leader is Infantry (Character)

Special Rules: Infiltrate, Scout, Tank Hunter, Move Through Cover

Wargear: Anti-tank rifle, Disposable rocket launcher, Sub-flak armour

Options:
- May include up to 7 additional Partisan Tank Hunters..........13pts/model
- One Partisan may replace his anti-tank rifle with a meltagun..........5pts
- The entire unit may take any of the following:
+ Flak armour..........1pt/model
+ Frag grenades..........1pt/model
- The Tank Hunter Leader may take any of the following:
+ Krak grenades:..........2pts
+ Melta bombs:..........5pts



Wargears:
Sub-flak armour: Confers a 6+ armour save

Partisan rifle: R30" S3 AP- Salvo 1/1, Semi-auto
Semi-auto: If a model equipped with partisan rifle did not move in the preceding Movement phase, he can choose to re-roll all failed To Hit rolls with it in the Shooting phase

Anti-tank rifle: R36" S5 AP4 Heavy 1, Rending

Disposable rocket launcher: R12" S7 AP4 Salvo 1/1, One Use only

Home-made Flamer:
Normal mode: R Template S4 AP5 Assault 1, Gets Hot
Long-range mode: R Template S3 AP5 Assault 1, Torrent, Gets Hot

Interesting unit, I like the concept.

I'm wondering if it would be worth giving them standard flak armor over the sub-flak armor? Or perhaps offering the flak armor as an upgrade? I know that they lean towards stealth, Guard type infantry are already easy to kill as is.

It's a great concept and I think the statline is just right, including the 6+ armor. The partisan rifle is probably too good, though. It shouldn't be superior to the lasgun...

No love for my crons?

 Kain wrote:
No love for my crons?

You have to be careful with Crons. A lot of their tech is subtle, but can be incredibly powerful, and so can go overboard quickly.

The thing I would like to see most is an actual MBT for them. The DDArk is basically artillery. The ABarge is more an AP Vehicle than anything else. The Monolith is its own beast and avoids any true generally classification other than "floating mini-fortress".

Charistoph wrote:

 Kain wrote:
No love for my crons?

You have to be careful with Crons. A lot of their tech is subtle, but can be incredibly powerful, and so can go overboard quickly.

The thing I would like to see most is an actual MBT for them. The DDArk is basically artillery. The ABarge is more an AP Vehicle than anything else. The Monolith is its own beast and avoids any true generally classification other than "floating mini-fortress".

Check the last page, I made just that.

Might give it more options like some kind of pie-plate gun though.

 Cothonian wrote:
Interesting unit, I like the concept.

I'm wondering if it would be worth giving them standard flak armor over the sub-flak armor? Or perhaps offering the flak armor as an upgrade? I know that they lean towards stealth, Guard type infantry are already easy to kill as is.

I've already given them the upgrade to flak armour But I think giving them flak as standard sounds...well, not very right. They are lacking in military equipments, and some of them are probably civilians, so...yeah
On a gameplay level, they are much more expensive than mere Guardsmen, and both 5+ and 6+ do not matter much in current meta, except maybe in CCW, but with WS2, being caught up in CCW is a death sentence for the Partisans anyway. Giving them a 6+ save keeps down the costs, and forces player to think more in how to use them, even more than regular Guardsmen

 SisterSydney wrote:
It's a great concept and I think the statline is just right, including the 6+ armor. The partisan rifle is probably too good, though. It shouldn't be superior to the lasgun...

The Partisan Rifle is Salvo 1/1, that means, if the Partisans move, their rifles will be WEAKER than a Lasgun, with 8" less range. And if the Partisans stay still, they still only have the same threat range as Guardsmen (Move 6", Lasgun 24" range), but with the re-rolling advantage. Within 12", they will be butchered. Alongside the higher cost (8ppm), less blings (no grenades standard, 6+ save), weaker stat (WS2), I think they should have something else to somewhat level the playing field, as the special rules alone cannot allow them to earn back their point cost

Also, on a side note, do you think I should increase the anti-tank rifle S to 6 ? Or is 5 enough ?

 Kain wrote:
No love for my crons?

While cool, your Crons seem WAY underpriced. The tank should be closer to 300 for all you've given it. Supperior in every way to the Land Raider, and much cheaper? I don't have stats for the Gaus Exterminator, but I am sure it is better than most MBT's main gun. The flyer I am not sure of, but the missles seem pretty bonkers. The Cannotek thing.... wow.... I like it, but so broken, it's like a metal carnifex on steroids. I think they all would need points increased to make them ballanced, but that may make them unusable. Again, I do think they are all cool, but powerful gak usually is.

 Lord Blackscale wrote:

 Kain wrote:
No love for my crons?

While cool, your Crons seem WAY underpriced. The tank should be closer to 300 for all you've given it. Supperior in every way to the Land Raider, and much cheaper? I don't have stats for the Gaus Exterminator, but I am sure it is better than most MBT's main gun. The flyer I am not sure of, but the missles seem pretty bonkers. The Cannotek thing.... wow.... I like it, but so broken, it's like a metal carnifex on steroids. I think they all would need points increased to make them ballanced, but that may make them unusable. Again, I do think they are all cool, but powerful gak usually is.

The Canoptek is priced according to the Tyranid Dimachaeron. Which it is essentially a near-carbon copy of. Only it doesn't get access to FNP like the Dimachaeron does and deep strikes instead of leaps.

The Gauss Exterminator is a two shot heavy gauss cannon with some added range.

Well, I guess I stand corrected on the Canoptek. I know nothing about the Dimachaeron.

I would price the tank at 300, at least. Using the updated vehicle disign rules I was at 262 without the Exterminator and living metal. I didn't attempt to price the flyer, but it looks strong, but not so bad when compared to the Eldar flyer. lol

 Lord Blackscale wrote:
Well, I guess I stand corrected on the Canoptek. I know nothing about the Dimachaeron.

I would price the tank at 300, at least. Using the updated vehicle disign rules I was at 262 without the Exterminator and living metal. I didn't attempt to price the flyer, but it looks strong, but not so bad when compared to the Eldar flyer. lol

Dimachaeron (Forge World): A brand-new unit in fast attack that looks like a horrid mix between a Carnifex, a Tyrant, and a Lictor, it acts like a pseudo Jump MC (Leaping in movement gives it a 6" range, leaping in assault gives it HoW with S+1 and Strikedown). It has a pair of S+1 AP2 Talons that, when it rolls 6 to-hit, gives an attack on an unwieldy S+4 AP1 ID claw that can kill anything smaller than Extremely Bulky. Then, for each wound the model has, it gains a token that gives it a 4+ FNP for the turn before burning it off. And just to add on to the horde-rape, it has an AP2 pair of claws with 4+ ID. However, it has some unbalanced stats with WS8 BS3, but S/T/W/I 6 and 5 Attacks (6 due to 2 pairs of weapons) and a 3+, but it's reliant on Synapse with IB Feed (At least it has some alleviation if it killed some goons before to feed it FNP), Rampage, and Adrenal Glands.

The great weakness of the Dimachaeron is that it's not tremendously great at getting into assault since the leap is measured from the center of its base.

It was meant to be something of a Necron Predator tank.

I'll look into it some more.

Lychguard Gatekeeper
Partisan WS:5 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:3 A:2 LD:10 Sv3+

A single model in a Lychguard unit can be upgraded to a Lychguard Gatekeeper for 20 points.

This model gains an additional special rule:
Gravitic Aura: A single unit within 12" may be nominated by a Lychguard Gatekeeper in the movement phase to be the target of this rule, lasting until the next round.
Units effected by Gravitic Aura must halve all movement rolls.

The Lychguard Gatekeeper is a title of reverence among Necron forces - those with enough sentience to recall the oaths and honors of old, anyway. This individuals would lead the Lord's chosen guards into battle in war, seeking out the most dangerous foe and forcing them into close-quarters engagement. There, they would earn their Phaeron's favor or die trying.

This is really just a way to deal with the Lychguard's most glaring weakness - mobility. Most of the enemeis you'd want them in combat with just need to run away and shoot them to death, and this is a way to get around that.

It's a cool concept, but needs more creepy weirdness (if only in the fluff) to be truly Necron. Also maybe a way for units to save against it, rather than an automatic effect?

Frankly, when I saw the name "Gatekeeper," I thought it'd be some kind of warp portal for the squad -- which would also be very fitting Necron archeotech that would solve the mobility problem in perhaps a simpler way.

^I'll work on it. I was a bit braindead but felt determined to get SOMETHING out.

Problem is if they move to fast or easily then they're pretty much better Praetorians. Yeah you're not getting a nice AP1 shot off before assault but the S7 and Armorbaneor S5 and invul will make up for it pretty quick.

I almost wish they'd have brought back the shields old reflection rule, though I feel that'd have made scytheguard even more hard to justify.

Really, if I could find a use for Lychguard, AB, and C'Tan shard I'd be a happy man. Just about everything else has a nice shiny reason to exist. Currently, of the three only the Lychguard is occassionally taken and that's just because an Orikan Star is damn hard to kill. But with all the super-high firepower formations and units being released lately, that singular use is dwindling quickly in efficiency.

 Ferros wrote:
^I'll work on it. I was a bit braindead but felt determined to get SOMETHING out.

Problem is if they move to fast or easily then they're pretty much better Praetorians. Yeah you're not getting a nice AP1 shot off before assault but the S7 and Armorbaneor S5 and invul will make up for it pretty quick.

I almost wish they'd have brought back the shields old reflection rule, though I feel that'd have made scytheguard even more hard to justify.

Really, if I could find a use for Lychguard, AB, and C'Tan shard I'd be a happy man. Just about everything else has a nice shiny reason to exist. Currently, of the three only the Lychguard is occassionally taken and that's just because an Orikan Star is damn hard to kill. But with all the super-high firepower formations and units being released lately, that singular use is dwindling quickly in efficiency.

I'd give him the option to pick his weaponry independantly of the rest of his squad, so essentialy you could have a scythe Gatekeeper in a Sword/Board squad or a Shield Gatekeeper tanking hits on his invul in a scythe squad.

You could also look at the idea of wargear similar to the monoliths portal that he deploys, essentially the squad acting as a fore runner for the army before deploying an Eternity Gate that from then on can either deploy necron forces from the tomb world or suck in foes.

Simir Fighting-Machine- Heavy Support, 75 pts

The foul xenos known as the Simir attack the edges of Imperial space, abducting all unfortunate enough to be caught in their sudden assaults. Emerging from metal cylinders filled with the parts required to build them, a Fighting-Machine is usually the most visible indicator of their presence- with few surviving to actually see the Simir themselves.

A Fighting-Machine is a incredibly tall three-legged walker, towering over even Imperial Knights. Clambering over any cover a foe may seek to protect themselves from the maddening metal monsters, it kills all who resist with a merciless discharge of it's terrifying weaponry while making the Simir's distinctive death-cry of "Uu-la".

Unit Type
Vehicle (Walker, Heavy)

Unit Composition
1 Fighting-Machine

Wargear

- Heat Ray

The so-called Heat Ray is mounted upon the carapace of each and every Fighting-Machine, and appears to be a rather common technology for the Simir. In a single sweep of the terrible weapon, combustible material bursts into flame and metal warps under the sheer amount of heat emitted.

Range 20''
S 4
AP 4
Heavy 3, Ignores Cover

-Combat Appendages

Thousands of foul metal tentacles stretch from the metal flesh of the Fighting-Machine, ripping apart all who come near them in a shower of ruddy gore.

Range -
S 3
AP 2
Melee, Shred

Special Rules
-Move Through Cover

Stats
WS 2
BS 4
S 6
F 11
S 10
R 10
I 3
A 1
HP 2

Options

-A Fighting-Machine may take up to 3 Black Canisters, 10 pts each.

Black Canisters

These canisters are carried by certain Fighting-Machines, and contain a noxious cock-tail of gases designed to bond with argon to become instantly toxic. The ink-like "black smoke" cannot be escaped, cannot be avoided. Even conventional protections from such weapons give out when exposed, making for a terrible weapon.

Range 10-30''
S 6
AP 5
Assault 3, One Use Only

Nice Tripod. With an S:4 AP:4 main gun and thin armor, it may be underpowered, though. And shouldn't the black smoke be some kind of template?

 RaptorusRex wrote:
Simir Fighting-Machine- Heavy Support, 75 pts

Good creation, I could see it fitting right at home with Ad Mech. A few things I'd change though (assuming you're making this in the likeness of a tripod from War of the Worlds).

Heat ray should be a high strength weapon. Lascannon stats with Armourbane would be appropriate. In addition it was depicted as sweeping across targets, so maybe a secondary firing mode, at lesser strngth and AP allow it to strike everything in a 6' line made in any direction from the point of targeting.

Some sort of invul save or energy shield to conpensate for the armour. I'd also make it AV11 all round.

The black smoke was used as a screen, I don't remember it being harmful. Template, Blind perhaps.

Actually black smoke killed the heck out of people -- but none of them were named characters, which may be why you don't recall it...

Here's my contribution to the tank fleet of the imperium, a forward observation tank based on the chimera hull:


Archer pattern Forward observer tank
May be taken as an elite choice by the following factions
Inquisition
Astra militarum
Death korp of krieg


BS 3
F 12
S 10
R 10
HP 3

Unit type: vehicle, tank, transport
Unit composition: 1 archer tank
Points cost: 120

Transport capacity: 6
Firing points: 2
Access points: one on the rear of the hull

Wargear:
Searchlight
Smoke launchers
Hull mounted Heavy bolter
FOB tower

Special rules:
Amphibious
Command tank
Lasgun array
Mark my target!

Options:
May exchange heavy bolter for heavy flamer ......free
May take items from the inquisitorial vehicle equipment list
May take camo netting .......15 points

FOB Tower
In each shooting phase the Archer may fire using one of the following profiles:
Griffon strike: RANGE: 36" S:6 AP:4 TYPE: Ordnance D3, large blast, barrage
Basilisk strike: RANGE: 180" S: 9 AP:3 TYPE: Ordnance 1, large blast, barrage
Orbital strike: RANGE: infinite S:10 AP:1 TYPE: Ordnance 1, large blast, barrage, one use only, orbital

Orbital:
The firerer's BS cannot be used to lower the scatter distance of the strike

Mark my target!
If the Archer didn't move on the turn it directed fired it also marks a target immediately after the shots have been fired as long as it had line of sight to the target. To mark a target place a small marker on the point where the barrage hit. On following turns as long as a new marker isn't placed and the Archer doesn't move the mark can be used to call in precision strikes. To call in a precision strike the Archer must fire it's FOB tower within either 6" or 12" of the marker. If the strike is called in within 6" the strike will not scatter and if called in within 12" the blast will only scatter D6". Normal rules for barrage weapons still apply.

I like it. Gives IG a little teeth.

Huntseer- HQ, 115 pts

Among the Exodites, those who have dedicated themselves to the arts of the wood are a unique brand of warriors- having devoted themselves to a dead god, Kurnous. Gifted with great psychic powers, they can channel this into either creative or destructive ends- with the latter being more and more common, as the Exodites find themselves under siege by Imperials more and more with every passing millennium.

The Huntseers are the most advanced students of this path, having attuned themselves to the wild. In battle, these Exodites disappear out of withering barrages of enemy fire- only to appear with their Chain-blades in the enemy's back.

Unit Type
Infantry (Character)


Unit Composition
1 Huntseer

Wargear

-Rune Armor

-2 Chain-Sabres

Essentially the Eldar version of a human Eviscerator, a Chain-Sabre offers crushing melee force in unison with a flurry of blows. A single strike rips through armor with ease, the ripping teeth flinging broken shards of armor aside in instants.

S +2
AP 3
Melee, Specialist Weapon, Shred

- Kurnite Cloak

Woven from both the hide and fur of a Wildgrinx, a Huntseer's cloak confers upon them the stealth of one- allowing them to step out of the forest without detection, and to strike with unparalleled speed.

A model with a Kurnite Cloak gains the Stealth special rule.

Special Rules
-Ancient Doom
-Battle Focus
-Independent Character
-Psyker (Master Level 2)

Psyker: A Huntseer generates their powers from the Runes of Battle and Biomancy disciplines.

Stats
WS 5
BS 4
S 4
T 3
W 3
I 5
A 2
LD 10
SV -

I would say you may have priced yourself too high here, at 15 points more than a farseer you:

Lose 1 Mastery Level
Lose 1 BS
No Ranged Weapon
Lost Ghost Helm
Lost runes of the Farseer
Highly Limited Choice of powers.

Have gained strength and toughness??? There are to my knowledge no T4 eldar in the codex (Not on bikes), except phoenix lords. Unless mounted Str3/T3 seems more appropriate

Gained Stealth
And switched the witchblade/pistol for a chainsabre.

Actually, not too bad. I'd go ahead and make that a pair of chainsabres, make them Specialist Weapon instead of Two-Handed and increase base attacks to 2 (or leave it at Two-Handed, go up to A3). They become melee-mainly (other than Smite, Life Leech and Destructor), so might as well make them good at it.

Melcavuk: Eldrad is T4, with the fluff justification of bone crystallization. Not sure if that applies here or not.

Personally I'd leave the Huntseer at T3 - with Biomancy, they've got good odds of getting powers to become T6, or EW and FNP 4+, both of which boost survivability a lot.