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[Post New] 2015/04/28 22:42:46
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
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Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

I don't care. This is just brainstorming anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another note:

Battlefield purpose: Virtues are intended to be shock troops that charge an enemy center unit to either shatter it or tie it up, or in a defensive purpose, hold the most important point of the army.

Lore: Virtues are intended to be the most "pure" of the Sisters, whom have kept themselves to the code they live by the most faithfully out of all the Sisters of Battle, and thus are trusted with advanced, and expensive, suits of blessed armor and sacred weapons-- and are also given the honor of being the vanguard of the Sororitas infantry force.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/28 22:48:16

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
[Post New] 2015/04/28 23:20:09
    Subject: Re:Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator





Alright lets do a comparison with math (whoop! whoop!) Using sword as a 10pt upgrade and axes as a 20pt upgrade.
Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield Termies in Land Raider Redeemer vs Virtues with either Blade of Admonition or Axe of Retribution with Crusade Shield Combo in Deliverer Assault Ark( no upgrades)

First a cost comparison:
TH/SS Termies= 225pts.
Land Raider Redeemer= 240pts
GRAND TOTAL:.465pts

BA/CS Virtues= 225pts
Deliverer Assault Ark= 150pts
GRAND TOTAL: 375pts

AR/CS Virtues= 275pts
Deliverer Assault Ark= 150pts
GRAND TOTAL: 425pts.

So as far as points go Virtues(both)> Terminators

Percentages of hitting will be the same in both as both have Ws4 and have an equal # of attacks.
Spoiler:
The statistics of WS4: vs 1-3= 66% 4-8 = 50% 9-10 33%

Comparison of the units in combat (assuming no casualties):
For calculating wounds I assume WS4

Spoiler:
(at initiative 1)
TH/SS Termies vs.
T3 Hammer of Wrath wounds on 3+(allows armor saves). Thunder Hammer Wounds on 2+, Instant Death, ignores armor saves. On the charge 5 HoW attacks generates 3.3 wounds.Thunder Hammer deals 8 hits and 6.7 ap 2 ID wounds .Without the charge it deals 5.5 hits and 4.6 ap 2 ID wounds .
T4 Hammer of Wrath wounds on 4+.(allows armor saves) Thunder Hammer Wounds on 2+, Instant Death, ignores armor saves. On the charge 5 HoW attacks generates 2.5 wounds.Thunder Hammer deals 8 hits and 6.7 ap 2 ID wounds .Without the charge it deals 5.5 hits and 4.6 ap 2 IDwounds
T5 Hammer of Wrath wounds on 5+.(allows armor saves) Thunder Hammer Wounds on 2+ ignores armor saves. On the charge 5 HoW attacks generates 1.7 wounds. Thunder Hammer deals 8 hits and 6.7 ap 2 wounds .Without the charge it deals 5.5 hits and 4.6 ap 2wounds .
T6 Hammer of Wrath wounds on 6+.(allows armor saves) Thunder Hammer Wounds on 2+ ignores armor saves. On the charge 5 HoW attacks generates 0.8 wounds. Thunder Hammer deals 8 hits and 6.7 ap 2 wounds .Without the charge it deals 5.5 hits and 4.6 ap 2wounds .
T7 Hammer of Wrath wounds on 6+.(allows armor saves) Thunder Hammer Wounds on 3+ ignores armor saves. On the charge 5 HoW attacks generates 0.8 wounds. Thunder Hammer deals 8 hits and 5.3 ap2 wounds . Without the charge it deals 5.5 hits and 3.6 ap2.wounds
T8 Hammer of Wrath cannot wound. Thunder Hammer Wounds on 4+ ignores armor saves. On the charge Thunder Hammer deals 8 hits and 4 ap2 wounds. Without the charge it deals 5.5 jots and 2.3 ap2 wounds.


Spoiler:
(at initiative 4)
BA/CS Sisters vs
T3 Hammer of Wrath wounds on 2+ ignores armor saves. Blade wounds on 2+, Instant Death, ignores armor saves. On the charge creates 5 HoW attacks generates 4.2 ap2 wounds. Blade deals 8 hits and 6.7 ap 2 ID wounds .Without the charge it deals 5.5 hits and 4.6 ap 2 ID wounds .
T4 Hammer of Wrath wounds on 2+ ignores armor saves. Blade Wounds on 2+ ignores armor saves. On the charge 5 HoW attacks generates 4.2 ap2 wounds. Blade deals 8 hits and 6.7 ap 2 wounds .Without the charge it deals 5.5 hits and 4.6 ap 2 Iwounds
T5 Hammer of Wrath wounds on 3+ ignores armor saves. Blade Wounds on 3+ ignores armor saves. On the charge 5 HoW attacks generates 3.3 ap2 wounds. Blade deals 8 hits and 5.3 ap2 wounds . Without the charge it deals 5.5 hits and 3.6 ap2.wounds .
T6 Hammer of Wrath wounds on 4+ ignores armor saves. Blade Wounds on 4+ ignores armor saves. On the charge 5 HoW attacks generates 2.5 ap2 wounds. Blade deals 8 hits and 4 ap2 wounds. Without the charge it deals 5.5 hits and 2.3 ap2 wounds
T7 Hammer of Wrath wounds on 5+.ignores armor saves. Blade Wounds on 5+ ignores armor saves. On the charge 5 HoW attacks generates 1.7 ap2wounds. Blade deals 8 hits and 2.6 ap2 wounds . Without the charge it deals 5.5 hits and 1.8 ap2.wounds
T8 Hammer of Wrath wounds on 6+ ignores armor saves. Blade Wounds on 6+ ignores armor saves. On the charge 5 HoW attacks generates 0.8 ap2 wounds. Blade deals 8 hits and 1.3 ap2 wounds. Without the charge it deals 5.5 jots and 0.9 ap2 wounds.


Spoiler:
(at initiative 1)
AR/CS Sisters vs
T3 Hammer of Wrath wounds on 2+ ignores armor saves .Axe Wounds on 2+, ignores armor saves. On the charge 5 HoW attacks generates3.3 ap2 wounds and 0.8 ap2 ID wounds. Axe deals 8 hits and 5.3 ap2 wounds and 1.3 ap2 ID wounds. Without the charge it deals 5.5 hits and 3.6 ap2.wounds and 0.9 ap2 ID wounds.
T4 Hammer of Wrath wounds on 2+ ignores armor saves. Axe Wounds on 2+ ignores armor saves. On the charge 5 HoW attacks generates3.3 ap2 wounds and 0.8 ap2 ID wounds. Axe deals 8 hits and 5.3 ap2 wounds and 1.3 ap2 ID wounds. Without the charge it deals 5.5 hits and 3.6 ap2.wounds and 0.9 ap2 ID wounds.
T5 Hammer of Wrath wounds on 2+ ignores armor saves. Axe Wounds on 2+ ignores armor saves. On the charge 5 HoW attacks generates 3.3 ap2 wounds and 0.8 ap2 ID wounds.Axe deals 8 hits and 5.3 ap2 wounds and 1.3 ap2 ID wounds. Without the charge it deals 5.5 hits and 3.6 ap2.wounds and 0.9 ap2 ID wounds.
T6 Hammer of Wrath wounds on 2+ ignores armor saves. Axe Wounds on 2+ ignores armor saves. On the charge 5 HoW attacks generates 3.3 ap2 wounds and 0.8 ap2 ID wounds. Axe deals 8 hits and 5.3 ap2 wounds and 1.3 ap2 ID wounds. Without the charge it deals 5.5 hits and 3.6 ap2.wounds and 0.9 ap2 ID wounds.
T7 Hammer of Wrath wounds on 2+.ignores armor saves. Axe Wounds on 2+ ignores armor saves. On the charge 5 HoW attacks generates 3.3 ap2 wounds and 0.8 ap2 ID wounds. Axe deals 8 hits and 5.3 ap2 wounds and 1.3 ap2 ID wounds . Without the charge it deals 5.5 hits and 3.6 ap2.wounds and 0.9 ap2 ID wounds.
T8 Hammer of Wrath wounds on 2+ ignores armor saves. Axe Wounds on 2+ ignores armor saves. On the charge 5 HoW attacks generates 3.3 ap2 wounds and 0.8 ap2 ID wounds Axe deals 8 hits and 5.3 ap2 wounds and 1.3 ap2 ID wounds. Without the charge it deals 5.5 hits and 3.6 ap2.wounds and 0.9 ap2 ID wounds.



Remarks: TH/SS Terminators put out more damage then BA/CS sisters at a lower initiative making them about equal. The AR/CS sisters are such beasts in combat that they can destroy nearly any unit they engage. Say bye bye Wraith Knight!

As far as damage output goes: AR/CS Viirtues> TH/SS Termies> BA/CS Virtues.


Survibability-
TH/SS
For everything except ap2 weapons Terminators have a 83% chance to make a save. On anything ap2 or lower they have a 66% chance to make the save. T4 1W

Both Virtues:
For everything except ap3 weapons Virtues have a 83% chance to make a save. Anything ap3 or lower they have a 50% chance to make the save. T3 1W.

Although not by much the TH/SS > Virtues(both) in the survivability department.

Comparing transports:
Land Raider- Bs4 AV 14 14 14 HP4
Has 2 side-sponson S6 ap3 flamers, and assault cannon.

Deliverer Assault Ark- Bs4 AV 14 13 12 HP4
Has 2 side-sponson S6 ap3 flamers and twin-linked multimelta.

Results:
Land Raider>Deliverer Assault Ark both in focus (2 anti-infantry choices vs 1 anti-armor and 1 anti-infantry) and in survivability. The area where the Deliverer Assault Ark succeeeds is in that it is 100 pts less and basically fulfills the same duty. For cost Deliverer Assault Ark>Land Raider as a better deal for the points.


I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/29 01:14:00


Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page
It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.

‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson 
   
[Post New] 2015/04/29 01:12:30
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
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Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Deliverer is also open-topped, which is another minus to survivability. Good point about the TL multi-melta being less than compatible with the two firestorm cannons; but there is a TL heavy flamer option.
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
[Post New] 2015/04/29 02:36:51
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator





If there is an option for another flamer that's how I'd run it.
BTW, does it have Power of the Machine Spirit?

Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page
It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.

‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson 
   
[Post New] 2015/04/29 02:43:35
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
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Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

What would y'all say about an upgrade to a Repressor that gives up firing ports and adds some points to make it something you can assault out of?
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
[Post New] 2015/04/29 02:52:07
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator





The current one is 75pts with 10 model carrying capacity.

Its 10 points to give it the assault vehicle rule from the V.D.R thats on this thread.

So 85pts for a 13 11 10 assault vehicle.

Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page
It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.

‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson 
   
[Post New] 2015/04/29 02:54:09
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
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Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Keep in mind it'd also give up firing ports for that, too, by my idea.

85 points for 13/11/10 vehicle with a flamer but reduced other firepower, that gains the ability to deposit a unit of infantry in to assault range seems fairly good. Is it too good?
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
[Post New] 2015/04/29 02:55:43
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator





Nope. I think its just right.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fact, since your getting rid of the fire points you should twin-link the heavy flamer to compensate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/29 03:00:36


Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page
It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.

‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson 
   
[Post New] 2015/04/29 03:04:47
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

It keeps changing every edition.. what does twin-linking a flamer template weapon do?
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
[Post New] 2015/04/29 03:09:30
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator





Re-rolls failed to wound rolls


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I know it makes no sense, but thats what it is

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/29 03:10:37


Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page
It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.

‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson 
   
[Post New] 2015/04/29 03:14:51
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Well, that's useful, at least.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
[Post New] 2015/04/30 13:17:56
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






SisterSydney wrote:Deliverer is also open-topped, which is another minus to survivability. Good point about the TL multi-melta being less than compatible with the two firestorm cannons; but there is a TL heavy flamer option.


DoomShakaLaka wrote:If there is an option for another flamer that's how I'd run it.
BTW, does it have Power of the Machine Spirit?


Power of the Machine Spirit? Are you some kind of jarhead or coghead? Here in the Adepta Sororitas we use honest, simple tech, like the God-Emperor intended. If we want something that can sort of think for itself, we hack a prisoner's brain out of their skull and hardwire it in as a servitor in eternal torment, like decent God-Emperor-fearing folks.
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
[Post New] 2015/04/30 13:52:16
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator





 SisterSydney wrote:
SisterSydney wrote:Deliverer is also open-topped, which is another minus to survivability. Good point about the TL multi-melta being less than compatible with the two firestorm cannons; but there is a TL heavy flamer option.


DoomShakaLaka wrote:If there is an option for another flamer that's how I'd run it.
BTW, does it have Power of the Machine Spirit?


Power of the Machine Spirit? Are you some kind of jarhead or coghead? Here in the Adepta Sororitas we use honest, simple tech, like the God-Emperor intended. If we want something that can sort of think for itself, we hack a prisoner's brain out of their skull and hardwire it in as a servitor in eternal torment, like decent God-Emperor-fearing folks.


But of course, this was simply a test of faith and loyalty to the Emperor. The Inquisition is giving you a pass..... for now.

BLAM!

Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page
It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.

‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson 
   
[Post New] 2015/05/01 21:36:04
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
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Made in us
Gimlet-Eyed Inquisitorial Acolyte




Calixis Sector

I'm a bit leery of all these SoB super elites I've been seeing recently.

Terminators should be last word in tough, Hard-hitting Imperial agents. The only thing that should outclass them are near abominations like Eversor Assassins, or maybe another Space Marine Honor Guard.

I'm willing to accept Sisters in Artificer Armour carrying storm shields, but not that they can re-roll their invulnerable and or armor saves.

The Adepta Sororitas has never been about having individual Sisters that could go toe toe with a Terminator. They make up for lack of being super humans with more bodies. They shouldn't cost as much as a Terminator squad until you've doubled the squad size. More models means more wounds.

Also why do they all get relics, the Blade of Admonition is a relic, the Axe of Retribution outclasses the Mace of Valaan, and by all accounts should be a relic.

Relics are limited to 1 per army for a reason.

Just about everything on your Virtues should be toned down. I'm not a big fan of Always Strikes First, especially if it ignores unwieldy and other always strikes last rules. In Witch Hunters The Passion increased a units Initiative by 2, unless they had an unwieldy weapon.

As for an assault vehicle, I statted out the Rhino Advancer in my own Codex Sisters of Battle: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/609583.page#7102148

I also made the Crucifier if you need something more analogous to the Land Raider.

Warhammer 40,000 Custom Redux 
   
[Post New] 2015/05/02 00:10:04
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

 J3f wrote:
Terminators
Don't care, they're space marines so they can go suck a lemon.

This is not a terminator unit, regardless. They are a melee assault unit that is intended to make sustained melee assaults with a human statline plausible-- without simply throwing more bodies at it.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/05/02 00:11:10

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
[Post New] 2015/05/02 00:53:24
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






I don't think Terminators are the hardest of the hard even in their own Codex anymore: We have Assault Centurions. And I have no problem about having one Sisters unit that can go toe-to-toe with Termies. They're sufficiently different (T:3 vs T:4, for example) that I don't see this unit as merely "Female Terminators."
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
[Post New] 2015/05/02 03:10:45
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator





I actually see nothing wrong with the unit. Although they have some fancy tricks they are in no way op, and suffer from the same drawbacks as all cc oriented troops.

They're fluffy, look awesome, and hit really hard, but cost alot of points to run. What's not to like?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, as I've said earlier they are elite and monstrous creature hunters, and do those two jobs very well, but they can still EASILY be shot of the board.

Had a random thought. If you felt the need to change them, make it so they can't re-roll their saves against instant death wounds.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/02 03:13:27


Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page
It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.

‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson 
   
[Post New] 2015/05/02 03:24:47
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

I am probably going to get jumped on for saying this, but...

 Melissia wrote:
Don't care, they're space marines so they can go suck a lemon.


It' s very relevant when you design a custom unit, because units do not exist in a vacuum.

In addition, when you design a custom unit, you must also be able to convince your fellow players that you have put thought and care into the rules, and that you do not take them just for advantages (which in itself also returns to above point.) Arrogant dismissal does not really result in the right kind of impression, the one that convinces the other player to give your homebrew a go.

Not comparing to and accounting for the most played army and therefore the army your custom unit is most likely to encounter is a significant hole in its design.

Of course, if the notion of someone mentioning Space Marines in your thread inconveniences you, you can always look at the very similar Necron Warriors and Necron Immortals, compare to Meganobs instead of Terminators and so on, though I am not sure of why this detour would be necessary instead of just looking at the source.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2015/05/02 03:34:58

Currently ongoing projects:
Horus Heresy Alpha Legion
Tyranids  
   
[Post New] 2015/05/02 03:47:43
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

 Ashiraya wrote:
It' s very irrelevant
FTFY

What matters most, the first and foremost thought in a designer's mind, is how the unit fits within the army it is built for.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
[Post New] 2015/05/02 03:49:36
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

But it's far from the only thing that's important, unless the army is designed to only fight itself.

The mindset of focusing on internal consistency but ignoring external comparisons is likely what made Codex: Eldar into a nicely fluffy codex that's absurdly broken in actual play,

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/02 03:51:44

Currently ongoing projects:
Horus Heresy Alpha Legion
Tyranids  
   
[Post New] 2015/05/02 03:50:22
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

 Ashiraya wrote:
Only if the army is designed to only fight itself.
Nope.

If you aren't designing the units within your army to fit the theme and style of the army in question, you're a failure as a unit designer. Other concerns are secondary to this one.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
[Post New] 2015/05/02 03:52:03
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator





 Melissia wrote:
 Ashiraya wrote:
Only if the army is designed to only fight itself.
Nope.

If you aren't designing the units within your army to fit the theme and style of the army in question, you're a failure as a unit designer. Other concerns are secondary to this one.


Well, thats at least how the Eldar codex writers felt .


But seriously, I like the unit. Tweak it as you see fit, but I'm all for forging the narrative if you want.

Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page
It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.

‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson 
   
[Post New] 2015/05/02 03:52:42
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

 Melissia wrote:
 Ashiraya wrote:
Only if the army is designed to only fight itself.
Nope.

If you aren't designing the units within your army to fit the theme and style of the army in question, you're a failure as a unit designer. Other concerns are secondary to this one.


Designing the units of your army to fit the theme and style of the army does not prevent also designing them to interact well with other codices, believe it or not.

Analogy: a car without an intact chassis is obviously going to be a failure of a car, but functioning brakes is also necessary to make it viable for use.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/02 03:57:30

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[Post New] 2015/05/02 03:52:43
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
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USA

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
 Ashiraya wrote:
Only if the army is designed to only fight itself.
Nope.

If you aren't designing the units within your army to fit the theme and style of the army in question, you're a failure as a unit designer. Other concerns are secondary to this one.


Well, thats at least how the Eldar codex writers felt .
The Eldar codex has its own problems with internal balance that make it wonky and questionably designed.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
[Post New] 2015/05/02 03:57:00
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
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Ruthless Interrogator





I was mostly joking.

Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page
It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.

‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson 
   
[Post New] 2015/05/02 03:59:17
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
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USA

 Ashiraya wrote:
Designing the units of your army to fit the theme and style of the army does not prevent also designing them to interact well with other codices, believe it or not.
The post I responded to, which basically came across as "marines are the only ones who deserve nice things", is not one you are going to convince me to take seriously. That argument is contemptible and unworthy of my time and consideration.

It's one thing to have an overpowered unit, it's another thing to try to lay claim to a very broad archetype and demand no one else have that, no matter what, like some kind of patent troll.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/02 03:59:41

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
[Post New] 2015/05/02 04:02:52
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

 Melissia wrote:
The post I responded to, which basically came across as "marines are the only ones who deserve nice things", is not one you are going to convince me to take seriously. That argument is contemptible and unworthy of my time and consideration.

It's one thing to have an overpowered unit, it's another thing to try to lay claim to a very broad archetype and demand no one else have that, no matter what, like some kind of patent troll.


Trying to demonise J3f does not make him wrong.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/02 04:03:55

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[Post New] 2015/05/02 04:03:51
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
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USA

 Ashiraya wrote:
Trying to demonise J3f does not make him wrong.
Accusing me of demonizing another poster does not make that poster suddenly right.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
[Post New] 2015/05/02 04:06:12
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
[Up]
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

 Melissia wrote:
 Ashiraya wrote:
Trying to demonise J3f does not make him wrong.
Accusing me of demonizing another poster does not make that poster suddenly right.



You misrepresented his argument as 'only Marines should have nice things' which again suggests an axe to grind (especially as I don't get what is so bad about having one faction have significantly stronger and accordingly more expensive troops than others.)

You also compared it to troll behaviour.

Do Imperial Knights need to be weaker and cheaper too, because they are better than SoB? Or is that perfectly fine, since they are not Space Marines, and everything is fine as long as it is not Space Marines?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/05/02 04:08:19

Currently ongoing projects:
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[Post New] 2015/05/02 04:07:45
    Subject: Sisters of Battle: Virtues
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USA

 Ashiraya wrote:
You misrepresented
No I did not. That is exactly how the argument came across to me, and how it STILL comes across to me.
 Ashiraya wrote:
You also compared it to troll behaviour.
Your ignorance of the term "patent troll" doesn't change the actual meaning of the term.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
 
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