New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby

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**Crazyterran**

I don't think upgrades on the transports are going to be free. We'll have to wait to see the exact wording, but a free heavy bolter razorback isn't exactly terror inducing.

**optometris**

what are the black templar rumours, Ive been at work all day, ive gone through about 30 pages and seemed to have missed any mention of them

**pretre**

Talys wrote:
@Orrock -- I don't think the 1480 company is the scary one.

Take just the bare minimum - captain, chaplain, 30 tacticals, 10 assault and 10 devastator, and you're clocking in at much lower than that. If the upgrades are free on the razorbacks, that's 750 points of transports, not to mention 10 heavy weapon vehicle models not easy to remove. Still 550 points worth at minimum.

Bare Minimum two Demis is 880

Captain 90
Chaplain 90
6 Tacs - 420
2 Assault - 140
2 Dev - 140

10 Free Razorbacks.
Even with 10 Upgrades, that's what 200, so 1080 without weapons.

**Talys**

MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Especially as an Attack Bike counts as a full assault sqaud. Hopefully it requires full squads!

That's no good, though, because you get no DT. You're much better off paying 70 points to get 5 assault Marines and grab a free razorback.

**Requizen**

I'm laughing my butt off at people complaining that SM didn't get buffed into the freaking moon like Eldar. The bonuses and changes we've seen so far have been nothing but buffs, and getting free transports in an army known for stocking up on Drop Pods, Rhinos, and Razorbacks already is insane. What I've seen so far easily puts them on par with Necrons imo.

Not being as good as the army with spammable D weapons, GCs, and the most powerful Jetbikes in the game doesn't mean it sucks, lol.

Though I do with Raven Guard were better =\ I think my hypothetical new Space Marine army will be using Ultramarine tactics.

**Talys**

@pretre -- yeah, exactly. Who wouldn't take 1080 (or 880) with a free 550?

**rkempey002**

Orock wrote:
rkempey002 wrote:
ashikenshin wrote:
Iuchiban from warseer:

Ok, let's go:
The basic "Decurión" is the Demi battle company:
- 1 Captain or Chaplain
- 0-1 Command squad
- 3 Tactical squads
- 1 Assault squad, Bike squad, Attack bike squad, Land speeder squad or Assault Cents.
- 1 Devastator squad or Dev Cent squad.
- 0-1 Dreadnought of any type.

This formation may use any battle doctrines once per battle

If you take 2 Demi-Companies, you get a full Company. (First company with a Captain and the second with a Chaplain). If done so, any unit that is able to purchase a Rhino, Razorback or Drop Pod, may do so without any additional cost.

Termins are now 175 points (Both types), altough hammer and shied cost +10 points

Devastator, for +5 points, may once per game, reroll to hit. Grav cannons + amp cost 35 points.

Chapter master upgrade is not one per army.

No Land Raider Squadrons, but one Formation (3 Land Raiders of any type). They reroll to wound vs Gargantuan Creatures and to penétrate vs Superhevies. If they are at 6" of any other Raider of the formation, they ignore any result on the damage chart but destroyed.

To get the benefit of the tank squadrons you need 3 of them. You lose the benefit if you lose a tank.

Let's go with the formations:

Demi-Company (See above)

Anti-Air Defence Force
- 1 unit of Hunters
- 1 unit of Stalkers
Benefits:
- If one Hunter hits a flyer with the main weapon, all Stalkers in the unit get +1BS when firing at this flyer.
Restrictions:
- Unit of Stalkers: Mínimum 2

1st Company Task Force
- 3-5 Units from:
Termis
Assault Termis
Sternguard Veterans
Vanguard Veterans
Benefits:
- Fear
- Fearless
- At the beginning of the game, pick an enemy unit. Units in this formation have Preferred Enemy against the picked unit
- Enemy units get -2 to L, if they are a 12" of a mínimum of 3 units of this formation
Restrictions: None

Strilke Force Ultra
- 1 Captain
- 2 Termi squads
- 2 Assault Termi squads
- 1 Venerable Dreadnoght
- 1 Stormraven
- 1 LR Crusader or Redeemer
Benefits:
- All units stay in Reserve. Start rolling on your turn 1.
- After coming from reserves, or disembarking, shooting weapons of the Termi squads get +1 shoot (For Example, Assault Cannon becomes Heavy 5)
- When disembarking from a transport, assault Termi units get +1A.
Restrictions:
Captain must have Terminator Armour
All units must enter via DS, unless embarked in a Transport.

Reclusiam Command Squad
- 1 Chaplain
- 1 Command Squad
Benefits:
- All units at 6" benefit from the Fanatic SR, not only the Chaplain unit
Restrictions:
- Unit must purchase a Razorback. Chaplain may not leave the command squad.

10th Company Task Force
- 3-5 units of:
Scout Squad
Scout Bike
0-1 Telion
Benefits:
- Precisión shots during first turn
- If the unit has not the Stealth SR, they get it until the move, shoot, charge, etc.
Restrictions:
- Scout bikes must purchase the mines.

Storm Wing
- 1 Stormraven
- 2 Stormtalons
Benefits:
- Make only a reserve roll for the whole unit
- Stormraven gets the Strafin Run SR, if at least a Talon is alive.
Restrictions:
None

Centurión Siege Breaker Cohort
- 2-4 Assault Cent squads
- 1 Ironclad
Benefits:
- If they destroy a Transport, unit inside the 2D6 S6 AP4 hits, Ignore cover.
- Reroll to penétrate vs buildings
Restrictions:
None

Land Raider Spearhead
- 3 Raiders of any type.
Benefits:
- See previous posts
Restrictions:
None

Librarius Conclave
3-5 Librarians
Benefits:
- Pick one Librarian, This guy knows all the powers of any Lib of the formation at 12". Those Libs may not cast powers this turn. Picked Lib harness warp charges with 3+ if one Lib is at 12" or less. If 2 Libs at 12" or less, harnessing is with 2+.
Restrictions:
None

Armoure Task Force
- 1 Techmarine
- 0-3 TFC
- 3-5 Units of
Vindicators
Predators
Whirlwinds
- 0-1 Chronus
Benefits:
- Ignore crew shaken and stunned if at 6" of a Techmarine or a Techmarine gunner
- Thechmarine and Techmarine gunner get +1 to Ominissiah rolls (repair vehicles)

Suppression Force
- 1 Whirlwind unit
- 1 Landspeeder unit
Benefits:
- One landspeeder may pick an enemy unit at 12". Whirlwinds reroll to hit vs this unit. If the picked unit is out of range of the whirlwinds, the may fire ignoring it.
Restrictions:
None

Buff, that was a big one ....

thought there was something better, oh well

Assuming that these are true, they are pretty lackluster in my opinion. Not sure if these will be used from a competitive standpoint.

You really think the full company, clocking in at around 1480 without gear, with objective secured and free transports adding up to 700+ points is lackluster? Are we playing the same game?

You are absolutely right. That is the only one that really stands out.

**Talys**

@Requizen - the people who are upset want an easily spammable, low model count formation.

Like say, razorbacks getting holo shields, jink, and 60" shooting range

or tacticals getting rending bolters, and terminators getting FNP and 5 heavy weapons per squad!

**casvalremdeikun**

Talys wrote:
@pretre -- yeah, exactly. Who wouldn't take 1080 (or 880) with a free 550?

As of right now, I probably wouldn't since the bars minimum is kinda bland, and I also don't own that many Razorbacks.

**Desubot**

Requizen wrote:
I'm laughing my butt off at people complaining that SM didn't get buffed into the freaking moon like Eldar. The bonuses and changes we've seen so far have been nothing but buffs, and getting free transports in an army known for stocking up on Drop Pods, Rhinos, and Razorbacks already is insane. What I've seen so far easily puts them on par with Necrons imo.

Not being as good as the army with spammable D weapons, GCs, and the most powerful Jetbikes in the game doesn't mean it sucks, lol.

Though I do with Raven Guard were better =\ I think my hypothetical new Space Marine army will be using Ultramarine tactics.

To bad Marines still wont be able to flat out kill off Crons.

Eldar is just a fethin mess and it makes me sad pandas.

Personally liking the Demi Company Assuming dev combat doctrens will be copy pastaed.

4 Multi melta kill all tanks Dev squads, extreme alpha strike Grav devs.

Its gona be fun on the bun.

**niv-mizzet**

jakejackjake wrote:
niv-mizzet wrote:
jakejackjake wrote:
Nocturnus wrote:
While not as bad as the Dark Eldar update, this is a lazy, half-assed codex. If the rumors are to be believed. Total cash grab to boost those quarter final sales. I see no reason to use the new book over the current one. I had hopes that Marines would at least be similar to Eldar in terms of power, but alas, it is not to be.

They buffed quite a bit. The few changes they made did make marines a gak load more powerful. Anyone who doesn't see it is nuts.

I guess I must be nuts then. As a tourney player, I would still consider a game against these 7e marine rumors much easier than a matchup against taxi'd admech or eldar/crons.
We have triple vehicle sets that lose their special ability by knocking one out. A land raider formation that takes up most of an army, a bunch of very "meh" subformations for the gladius. The full company getting a bunch of free razorbacks or pods can make a run at tournaments. Bikers still look good, cents (assuming no change) still look good. Their actual competitive armies that abuse the best units didn't change much, but what they did NOT get, which is what I was hoping for, is a book where you can take whatever you want and have it be at least viable, similar to eldar/crons.

Even if I did play against a ton of free transports, it's still just a bunch of foot marines. Not exactly the most broken model in the game.

They opened up so many more combinations than is reasonable. Necrons are by no ways overpowered compared to this new books rumors. Eldar are if you face just maxed wind riders with scatter and wraithknights. Those are the only really overpowered units. The rest is comparable and if you don't think so Id assume it's rose colored glasses. the new rules are strong. You may just be upset it wasn't chamged the way you wanted but it got beefed a lot. I'd face necron over marines if the generals are of equal level as is

You absolutely can not take anything with eldar. Play a game against a good list and opponent with no win drifters or wraithknights and it's easy unless your list sucks, and again this isn't true as a necron player either

Lolno. Everything in the eldar dex is good. I've been rocking people out with shining spears, dark reapers, striking scorpions, you name it. Most of them ended with 11-0 wins for the eldar in ITC missions.

And if I were running a decurion against myself running this marine book, the decurion wins unless the marine "me" is running one of the already powerful marine builds like cent stars, bikers, or pod spam. (In which case an actual game happens!) Like I said, it's POSSIBLE that the full company might get added to that list as tourney-capable, especially in objective-focused ITC missions, but it's just another msu spam tactic with playing to the mission. You may win, but you aren't ever going to dominate the board against the real supermen of the game. It's the same way I win with blood angels now.

**Talys**

@niv-mizzet -- isn't the whole point of the competitive game to win though?

It hardly matters which force would win in 12 turns when the game ends in 6, and one side has more victory points. In the fluff, Imperium technology is far inferior to Necron and Eldar, so being able to win on points (and lose ultimately, in a table-or-nothing game) would be good design, I think.

That being said, you can still DraigoStar, bikespam and all the other fun stuff that you could before. I mean, it looks like you can even get a DraigoStar AND 10 free razorbacks...

**Red Corsair**

Desubot wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
pretre wrote:
Hulksmash wrote:
1450 gets you the following:

Captain & Chappy
6x5 Tacticals w/Combi-Grav & Grav Cannon
2x5 Assault Marines w/2 Flamers
2x5 Devs w/4 Grav Cannons

All in pods.....

I could see myself taking Deathwind pods if they were free.

Deathwinds are so underrated it's crazy. Even I turn my nose at them usually until I play this one guy that ends up clogging the middle of the table with 5 by turn 2 every game. 5 s 5 large blasts is a massive PITA especially once you start killing pods leaving your unit in a ring with no consolidation for the next round.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I wait every update for when drop pods get ceramite plating since they drop from orbit

To be Fair the ceramite parts are on the bottom and on the doors that are now facing the floors.
perhaps auto pass on lava terrain

Well in game there is no requirement for the doors to be open like any other transport. Who says they don't blow open then close back up

**pretre**

Talys wrote:
@pretre -- yeah, exactly. Who wouldn't take 1080 (or 880) with a free 550?

I'm thinking a drop Company or Razor Company will be pretty damn effective.

**casvalremdeikun**

Desubot wrote:
Requizen wrote:
I'm laughing my butt off at people complaining that SM didn't get buffed into the freaking moon like Eldar. The bonuses and changes we've seen so far have been nothing but buffs, and getting free transports in an army known for stocking up on Drop Pods, Rhinos, and Razorbacks already is insane. What I've seen so far easily puts them on par with Necrons imo.

Not being as good as the army with spammable D weapons, GCs, and the most powerful Jetbikes in the game doesn't mean it sucks, lol.

Though I do with Raven Guard were better =\ I think my hypothetical new Space Marine army will be using Ultramarine tactics.

To bad Marines still wont be able to flat out kill off Crons.

Eldar is just a fethin mess and it makes me sad pandas.

Personally liking the Demi Company Assuming dev combat doctrens will be copy pastaed.

4 Multi melta kill all tanks Dev squads, extreme alpha strike Grav devs.

Its gona be fun on the bun.

Wouldn't the Vindicator apocalyptic blast wipe Crons off the map due to bypassing RA?

**Desubot**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Desubot wrote:
Requizen wrote:
I'm laughing my butt off at people complaining that SM didn't get buffed into the freaking moon like Eldar. The bonuses and changes we've seen so far have been nothing but buffs, and getting free transports in an army known for stocking up on Drop Pods, Rhinos, and Razorbacks already is insane. What I've seen so far easily puts them on par with Necrons imo.

Not being as good as the army with spammable D weapons, GCs, and the most powerful Jetbikes in the game doesn't mean it sucks, lol.

Though I do with Raven Guard were better =\ I think my hypothetical new Space Marine army will be using Ultramarine tactics.

To bad Marines still wont be able to flat out kill off Crons.

Eldar is just a fethin mess and it makes me sad pandas.

Personally liking the Demi Company Assuming dev combat doctrens will be copy pastaed.

4 Multi melta kill all tanks Dev squads, extreme alpha strike Grav devs.

Its gona be fun on the bun.

Wouldn't the Vindicator apocalyptic blast wipe Crons off the map due to bypassing RA?

Noting fully bypasses RP which is the slowed thing.

And the thing that worries me the most being harvest wraiths still get there invul (though this would be one of the best chances at dealing with them.)

Edit: Oh wait the D does bypass doesnt it.

**Talys**

pretre wrote:
Talys wrote:
@pretre -- yeah, exactly. Who wouldn't take 1080 (or 880) with a free 550?

I'm thinking a drop Company or Razor Company will be pretty damn effective.

Yeah, I think so -- you can do a mix too. Without mixing models painted for different chapters, I have 5 razorbacks, 7 drop pods and 3 rhinos. Which means I will probably buy more razorbacks...O.o

If the upgrades are free, DWML on the pods would be pretty awesome too.

**Experiment 626**

Just saw over on Warseer's rumor thread, according to a poster who apparently has the codex, Termies are still 1 heavy weapon per 5 models sadly.

**kronk**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Talys wrote:
@pretre -- yeah, exactly. Who wouldn't take 1080 (or 880) with a free 550?
As of right now, I probably wouldn't since the bars minimum is kinda bland, and I also don't own that many Razorbacks.

No problem! Bitspudlo has you covered!

Spoiler:

**pretre**

Talys wrote:
pretre wrote:
Talys wrote:
@pretre -- yeah, exactly. Who wouldn't take 1080 (or 880) with a free 550?

I'm thinking a drop Company or Razor Company will be pretty damn effective.

Yeah, I think so -- you can do a mix too. Without mixing models painted for different chapters, I have 5 razorbacks, 7 drop pods and 3 rhinos. Which means I will probably buy more razorbacks...O.o

If the upgrades are free, DWML on the pods would be pretty awesome too.

Even without free upgrades, 20 points per lasplas and 10 points per Deathwind is money in the bank.

I posted my 1850 with 12 Drop Pods (with 12 Deathwind), 18 Grav Cannons, 6 Grav Guns, 4 Flamers, Comm Relay and 2 Dreads Already.

And that isn't even terribly optimised. And that's 12 Obsec units too.

**Exergy**

Talys wrote:
pretre wrote:
Talys wrote:
@pretre -- yeah, exactly. Who wouldn't take 1080 (or 880) with a free 550?

I'm thinking a drop Company or Razor Company will be pretty damn effective.

Yeah, I think so -- you can do a mix too. Without mixing models painted for different chapters, I have 5 razorbacks, 7 drop pods and 3 rhinos. Which means I will probably buy more razorbacks...O.o

Razorspam is back after 1 edition hiatus

**CrashGordon94**

Exergy wrote:
CrashGordon94 wrote:
Crimson wrote:People looking for information on the new codex should check out this B&C thread.

So they still can do Bikes as Troops? Well, hopefully this implies that the Dark Angels will keep their X as Troops rules too...

They will lose it. Instead they will have a formation that does not require any troops.

All the slot moving is being removed.

Well, I still hope not but as long as the change doesn't screw my planned army I'll be cool with it.
If it does, I'm sticking to the previous codex.

**Requizen**

Desubot wrote:
Requizen wrote:
I'm laughing my butt off at people complaining that SM didn't get buffed into the freaking moon like Eldar. The bonuses and changes we've seen so far have been nothing but buffs, and getting free transports in an army known for stocking up on Drop Pods, Rhinos, and Razorbacks already is insane. What I've seen so far easily puts them on par with Necrons imo.

Not being as good as the army with spammable D weapons, GCs, and the most powerful Jetbikes in the game doesn't mean it sucks, lol.

Though I do with Raven Guard were better =\ I think my hypothetical new Space Marine army will be using Ultramarine tactics.

To bad Marines still wont be able to flat out kill off Crons.

And that's fine. Necrons are supposed to be the most durable army in the game, that's their shtick. Their shooting is pretty good but not top tier, their Assault is pretty good but outside Wraiths not top tier, their vehicles are all durable but Open Topped, etc. The defining trait of Necrons is durability, so no army should really be able to just "flat out kill them".

Marines will kick their ass in terms of tactical flexibility and vehicle spam. They win in terms of special and heavy weapon output as well, and artillery.

Exergy wrote:
Talys wrote:
pretre wrote:
Talys wrote:
@pretre -- yeah, exactly. Who wouldn't take 1080 (or 880) with a free 550?

I'm thinking a drop Company or Razor Company will be pretty damn effective.

Yeah, I think so -- you can do a mix too. Without mixing models painted for different chapters, I have 5 razorbacks, 7 drop pods and 3 rhinos. Which means I will probably buy more razorbacks...O.o

Razorspam is back after 1 edition hiatus

This is actually what I'm thinking for my hypothetical SM. Razorspam with a Company. Sure, you can kill off a Razorback pretty easily. But what about a whole buttload of them?

**Red Corsair**

Requizen wrote:
I'm laughing my butt off at people complaining that SM didn't get buffed into the freaking moon like Eldar. The bonuses and changes we've seen so far have been nothing but buffs, and getting free transports in an army known for stocking up on Drop Pods, Rhinos, and Razorbacks already is insane. What I've seen so far easily puts them on par with Necrons imo.

Not being as good as the army with spammable D weapons, GCs, and the most powerful Jetbikes in the game doesn't mean it sucks, lol.

Though I do with Raven Guard were better =\ I think my hypothetical new Space Marine army will be using Ultramarine tactics.

^agree
I don't understand why people hate on D weapons yet give grav a fething pass. It's the same gun almost when you break it down, it can hurt ANYTHING in the game and the more elite and expensive the target, the better it gets. I don't get why ITC felt the need to jump the shark and newter D when now the last two books in a row have so much cheap spammable grav it is stupid.

I watched the last frontline stream and the neutered version of D scythe guard came in and literally only killed one kataphron thanks to their asinine D tweak. The irony was the unit had heavy grav canons and deleted the whole scytheguard unit in return. 315 point unit creamed by a 165 stock unit + dominus. Same thing with the wraith knight, he did jack because his heavy D canons were terrible.

There is probably 3-4 times as much grav in a marine list then any list from eldar with D, it is amazing how massive a boost devastators just got with grav canons/amps. You take them in 10 man units and your getting 2 squads with 2 canons each plus a combi in one and a free fething pod!

**AlmightyWalrus**

I'm just hoping GW derped and somehow worded it so that you're allowed to substitute Crusader Squads for Tactical Squads in the Demi-Company. Why yes, I would like 6 free Land Raiders, thankyouverymuch!

**Red Corsair**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I'm just hoping GW derped and somehow worded it so that you're allowed to substitute Crusader Squads for Tactical Squads in the Demi-Company. Why yes, I would like 6 free Land Raiders, thankyouverymuch!

Either way templars appear to have gotten some very nice buffs.

**DaddyWarcrimes**

Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Hey look, a Forge World Devastator Squad is cheaper (not including postage) in Australia and gives you 5 of the heavy weapon of your choice. Unfortunately there's no Grav Cannons.

Even the Assault Squad from FW is cheaper by ~$2, though it lacks some of the options (all of which except for the Eviscerator is probably in your bitz box anyway)

When in doubt, use Volkites as Counts-As Gravcannons.

**Redemption**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I'm just hoping GW derped and somehow worded it so that you're allowed to substitute Crusader Squads for Tactical Squads in the Demi-Company. Why yes, I would like 6 free Land Raiders, thankyouverymuch!

If you take 2 Demi-Companies, you get a full Company. (First company with a Captain and the second with a Chaplain). If done so, any unit that is able to purchase a Rhino, Razorback or Drop Pod, may do so without any additional cost.

If that's a properly reported rule, no free Land Raiders.

**Nvs**

Well per the leak above, it sounded like the free transport was limited to rhinos, razorbacks, and drop pods anyway, didn't it?

And did they mention if the dread was the same price with 4 attacks now? Will that bring them more in line with wraithlords?

**Experiment 626**

Red Corsair wrote:
Requizen wrote:
I'm laughing my butt off at people complaining that SM didn't get buffed into the freaking moon like Eldar. The bonuses and changes we've seen so far have been nothing but buffs, and getting free transports in an army known for stocking up on Drop Pods, Rhinos, and Razorbacks already is insane. What I've seen so far easily puts them on par with Necrons imo.

Not being as good as the army with spammable D weapons, GCs, and the most powerful Jetbikes in the game doesn't mean it sucks, lol.

Though I do with Raven Guard were better =\ I think my hypothetical new Space Marine army will be using Ultramarine tactics.

^agree
I don't understand why people hate on D weapons yet give grav a fething pass. It's the same gun almost when you break it down, it can hurt ANYTHING in the game and the more elite and expensive the target, the better it gets. I don't get why ITC felt the need to jump the shark and newter D when now the last two books in a row have so much cheap spammable grav it is stupid.

I watched the last frontline stream and the neutered version of D scythe guard came in and literally only killed one kataphron thanks to their asinine D tweak. The irony was the unit had heavy grav canons and deleted the whole scytheguard unit in return. 315 point unit creamed by a 165 stock unit + dominus. Same thing with the wraith knight, he did jack because his heavy D canons were terrible.

There is probably 3-4 times as much grav in a marine list then any list from eldar with D, it is amazing how massive a boost devastators just got with grav canons/amps. You take them in 10 man units and your getting 2 squads with 2 canons each plus a combi in one and a free fething pod!

Stop talking sense man! Haven't you drunk the Kool-Aid yet - the new codex is absolute trash and does nothing for those poor, downtrodden Loyalists. Marines are still the worst army in the game!