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WS and BS 4 instead of 3?

 Talys wrote:

 ashikenshin wrote:
I like the scouts boost, now my assault scouts inside a land speeder storm will get some use

Does anyone know what the scouts boost is?

He said same statline so WS/BS 4?

Scouts are back to their original stats from two or three editions ago, when they were cheapo marines with a 4+ save. This may actually make them even more viable than before now.

 Talys wrote:

-Grav Cannon with amp is NOT 7 but 4 melta bombs.

Hola. Now that is awesome. No reason not to take it in the Tactical squad now. Crap, gotta buy more devastator boxes :X

-Scout HAVE MARINE STATLINE without point modification. Yes, you read that right.

OMG. What Changed?! Don't leave us hanging. So cruel!!!

-Command squads are elite now, -2 melta bombs

Sweet!

-I confirm that Dreads have 4 attacks. Cannot take multiple drop pods for units of dread. They have chapter tactics, ninja boost for the UM.

Whoa, that's very nice

-Stormtalon now comes with a bonus 6" if zooming. Keeps the strafing run. Weapon upgrades cost vastly reduced.

Hmmm....
Thank you!!!!
Did I miss a post about the tank squad bonuses (other than Land Raider)?

Scouts used to have full marine statlines, barring the armor save. The 3 WS/BS is new from the 5th? ed codex. I’d have to check the shelf.

IIRC from either upthread here, over on Warseer a/o B&C:
All vehicles can squadron you get bonus if you take 3. Whirlwinds get shred and pinning. Preds get monster and tank hunter.
Vindis get a apoc pie plate of doom
Stalkers get interceptor and ignore cover

@DarkStarSabre

Nope. Ive never read an Aliens rip off, re-hash completely devoid of science fiction. Honestly ive never wanted to read The Life of Pi in a buncker. There hasnt been a day where a friend of mine said "Theres a great book where 1 Lictor kills 300 terrified, lowly PDF guardsmen over 400 pages and it was good.".

Much more to the point, that went ROCKETING over your head, was not that "my bolter porn is better than yours" is the idea that this new codex doesnt do anything the fans want. Im sure xenos players love the idea of gobbling up piles of marines every turn, but its 2 codexes and multiple years of SM being the mid-tier army every bases thier performance on. If I have to hear/read "My flyrant can kill twice as many marines per game as your Phoenix Lord!", again I want it to MEAN something. I want to enjoy all the games where decurions & overpowered MCs roll up my army. The way to do that is make marines hard to kill. Make'em 30 points a piece. Hell, 40! We dont care. We just want marines. Real Adeptus Astartes.

Also if you cant reasonably join me in a meaningful conversation about the shortfalls of the new SM codex, please dont sink to critiquing the pulp fiction I choose to read.

-grav cannon and amp for just under a blackjack.
Whoa...that's lower than expected. Best Devastator gun by a mile then.

-scouts with full marine profile
Hawt. Wish that happened in the BA dex. Maybe I'll run counts as red "black Templar" scout spam or something. Rage for losing a guy last turn or to overwatch seems nifty.

-dreads with A 4
If they make it to combat, cool.

Relics:

 
Warlord Traits:

BakAG wrote:
Ok, got the book in hand.

So, in no particuliar order :

-Gauntlet of Ultramar lost Unwieldy. Still not specialist. So that's base 5A at I5 S8. Calgar loses his grenades if taking the Armor of Antilochus though.

Daang. Well, I guess as a LoW that makes sense. That sound you hear is Imotekh crying in comparison, btw.

-Grav Cannon with amp is NOT 7 but 4 melta bombs.

Solid, gonna sell them units too.

-Telion no longer an upgrade, but IC. Gained one HP, costs 10 melta bombs

Interesting. Combined with below, Scouts are quite cool.

-Chronus gained one hp, treated as a passenger if tank goes kaboom. Otherwise unchanged. Upgrade vehicule to character smile.png

Warlord tank would be cool if vehicles weren't so easy to blow up.

-Shrike unchanged

-Scout HAVE MARINE STATLINE without point modification. Yes, you read that right.

BS4 Scouts? For the same price? Whooooaaah, that's pretty huge. Scout armies are a pretty big deal now.

-Vanguard Veterans : power weapon and lightning claw upgrade now ONLY COSTS ONE MELTA BOMB PER LEVEL. Heroïc intervention let reroll one or two dice when charging, not taking malus for multiple charges.

Quite interesting. Vanguards being better means that there could be some cool builds now. Still, Jump isn't quite awesome.

-Sternguards went down by 2 melta bomb (as it should have been in the previous dex)

One of the best units in the book got better. Are we still crying?

-I confirm that Dreads have 4 attacks. Cannot take multiple drop pods for units of dread. They have chapter tactics, ninja boost for the UM.

Sucks for Raven Guard. Good for Ultramarines and maybe Imperial Fists (if you take Bolter type guns)

-Contrary to what was said, the Legion of the Damned deep striking is not buffed. Completely unchanged.

boo

-Stormtalon now comes with a bonus 6" if zooming. Keeps the strafing run. Weapon upgrades cost vastly reduced.

Possibly quite good. SM flyers could use a boost, rarely see them, at least in my experience.

-Dev squads can now take a cherub. Give them the silly look special rules, as well as rerool to hit. For one model. One use only. Yay. Auspex now decreases the cover save by one (12" range).

Interesting change... how much is the Cherub?

AAAAAAAAAAAAND that's all folks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dariokan

 BrookM wrote:
Scouts are back to their original stats from two or three editions ago, when they were cheapo marines with a 4+ save. This may actually make them even more viable than before now.

I am an idiot, sorry. I misread the leak as a NEW statline, I understand now DUH.

lols cheap grav

3 Demi Companies:
Chaplain x2 - 180
Captain - 90
9 Tac Squads with Melta/combi-Melta - 810
3 Dev Squads with 4 Grav and Cherub - 465
3 Assault Squads with 2 Flamers - 240
15 Free Drop Pods - 0
6 Deathwinds - 60
1845

Whats really to cry about. not much significant changed.

And things most people considered trash at least got a slight cost reduction.

niv-mizzet wrote:
-grav cannon and amp for just under a blackjack.
Whoa...that's lower than expected. Best Devastator gun by a mile then.

-scouts with full marine profile
Hawt. Wish that happened in the BA dex. Maybe I'll run counts as red "black Templar" scout spam or something. Rage for losing a guy last turn or to overwatch seems nifty.

Grav: Yeah, no kidding, huh?

Black Templars ---> Crimson Templars!

It's funny. The sculpted BA parts from the Tactical box -- mostly legs and shoulders -- plus all the sculpted jump packs from the Deathstorm boxes convinced me to remodel my entire Blood Angels army, which had been pretty much untouched for nearly 15 years -- though I (mostly) play them as vanilla successors.

Requizen wrote:
Raven Guard is seriously pretty weak...

I guess if you're making just a lot of Assault Marines and Vanguard they're decent, and giving your Scouts or other Infiltrating units Shrouded and possible Stealth on Turn 1 is nice... but is it better than giving them UM Doctrines, Bolter Drill, or even 6+ FNP? I dunno.

Maybe it's useful as an "anti alpha strike" list, where you load up on Camo Cloak Scouts for a turn 1 4+ guaranteed even outside of cover, guaranteed 2+ in any cover (even 5+), which makes you much more able to weather things like Drop Pods, Nemesis Strike Force or Dark Eldar Turn 1 DS, or Skitarii scout forward lists (if Night Fight, Camo Cloak Raven Guard has a 2+ in any cover and a 4+ outside of cover even against a Omnispex).

doesnt shrouded confer. IE you take a raven guard character and put him in a unit for +2 cover first turn. Not that bad. Particularly if techmarines are still cheap.


Also bikes can Jink for 2+

Seems that grav cannons are 35pts, which puts the rest of what the guy said into question...

Chaplain x2 - 180
Captain - 90
9 Tac Squads in 9 Razorbacks with Las/Plas - 810
3 Dev Squads with 4 Grav and Cherubs in Drop Pods with Deathwind - 495
3 Assault Squads with 2 Flamers in Drop Pods - 270
1845

 pretre wrote:
lols cheap grav

3 Demi Companies:
Chaplain x2 - 180
Captain - 90
9 Tac Squads with Melta/combi-Melta - 810
3 Dev Squads with 4 Grav and Cherub - 465
3 Assault Squads with 2 Flamers - 240
15 Free Drop Pods - 0
6 Deathwinds - 60
1845

That's a lot of drop pods. I'm sure Games Workshop would be very happy

 pretre wrote:
Chaplain x2 - 180
Captain - 90
9 Tac Squads in 9 Razorbacks with Las/Plas - 810
3 Dev Squads with 4 Grav and Cherubs in Drop Pods with Deathwind - 495
3 Assault Squads with 2 Flamers in Drop Pods - 270
1845

I like this much better!

 Crazyterran wrote:
Seems that grav cannons are 35pts, which puts the rest of what the guy said into question...

Grav cannons were rumored at 35 when someone said they were almost double a lascannon. This guy is reading straight out of the book.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Seems that grav cannons are 35pts, which puts the rest of what the guy said into question...

Well we have conflicting information for sure.

Cant wait to just get the book in my hands.

Edit: Slightly old but just noticed the Dev kits come with 2 of each. i can buy two boxes and out fit my entire Devastator lust!

 Talys wrote:

 pretre wrote:
lols cheap grav

3 Demi Companies:
Chaplain x2 - 180
Captain - 90
9 Tac Squads with Melta/combi-Melta - 810
3 Dev Squads with 4 Grav and Cherub - 465
3 Assault Squads with 2 Flamers - 240
15 Free Drop Pods - 0
6 Deathwinds - 60
1845

That's a lot of drop pods. I'm sure Games Workshop would be very happy

18 Freaking ob-sec units.  That's crazy.

 pretre wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Seems that grav cannons are 35pts, which puts the rest of what the guy said into question...

Grav cannons were rumored at 35 when someone said they were almost double a lascannon. This guy is reading straight out of the book.

They could both be right. Lascannons could be 10! Wouldn't that be something, huh? Imagine if a 5-man devastator squad with 4 lascannons was 110 points. That would be some value.

Scout Stats confirmation:


Strike Force Ultra:


1st Company:


Demi Company:


Sorry for the german again.

Automatically Appended Next Post:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grav is 35 points.

 Timotheus wrote:
Scout Stats confirmation:

edit: Ah derp i cant brain atm.

Gravs are 35

 pretre wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Seems that grav cannons are 35pts, which puts the rest of what the guy said into question...

Grav cannons were rumored at 35 when someone said they were almost double a lascannon. This guy is reading straight out of the book.

20 and 35 both sound wrong.
If a gravcannon and gravamp are worth 20 points more than a heavy bolter and equal to a twinlinked lascannon, they should be more than a regular lascannon

but they shouldnt be more than 30.

 Exergy wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Seems that grav cannons are 35pts, which puts the rest of what the guy said into question...

Grav cannons were rumored at 35 when someone said they were almost double a lascannon. This guy is reading straight out of the book.

20 and 35 both sound wrong.
If a gravcannon and gravamp are worth 20 points more than a heavy bolter and equal to a twinlinked lascannon, they should be more than a regular lascannon

but they shouldnt be more than 30.

35 is right. check the german screenshots. It's the last thing in the heavy weapon list under Lazerkannen.


Gravkanone and Gravstalker or whatever.

Awww, well, sad panda. 20 was fun while it lasted.

But anyways, that's not a bad thing, since 20 was too cheap anyhow

Happy panda.

At least I don't have to go out and buy a stupid number of devastator kits!

 Crazyterran wrote:

Gravs are 35

Spoiler:

Well so it is. Think they are overcosted by 5 points

Desubot wrote:Whats really to cry about. not much significant changed.

And things most people considered trash at least got a slight cost reduction.

Honestly, this book is a lot like the Necron book in my eyes. Chapter Tactics (the book defining thing, like Reanimation) got buffed. Most things got cheaper. Small boosts all around, very few (if any) nerfs.

Seems pretty similar to me. I'm sure SM players will really enjoy this book

Exergy wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Raven Guard is seriously pretty weak...

I guess if you're making just a lot of Assault Marines and Vanguard they're decent, and giving your Scouts or other Infiltrating units Shrouded and possible Stealth on Turn 1 is nice... but is it better than giving them UM Doctrines, Bolter Drill, or even 6+ FNP? I dunno.

Maybe it's useful as an "anti alpha strike" list, where you load up on Camo Cloak Scouts for a turn 1 4+ guaranteed even outside of cover, guaranteed 2+ in any cover (even 5+), which makes you much more able to weather things like Drop Pods, Nemesis Strike Force or Dark Eldar Turn 1 DS, or Skitarii scout forward lists (if Night Fight, Camo Cloak Raven Guard has a 2+ in any cover and a 4+ outside of cover even against a Omnispex).

doesnt shrouded confer. IE you take a raven guard character and put him in a unit for +2 cover first turn. Not that bad. Particularly if techmarines are still cheap.


Also bikes can Jink for 2+

It does make them decent allies, that's true. Giving Shrouded to some allied Skitarii or IG could be quite cool. And yeah, makes bikes good... but then again, Scars bikes get 3+ jink on every turn, not just the first. So, a nice boost, but I wouldn't build an army around it.

I think Scout-focused Raven Guard might be interesting, as I said before. Camo Cloak Scouts are now much shootier and with Shrouded are quite hard to kill on Turn 1. Not tourney topping, but quite interesting.

 Talys wrote:

 pretre wrote:
lols cheap grav

3 Demi Companies:
Chaplain x2 - 180
Captain - 90
9 Tac Squads with Melta/combi-Melta - 810
3 Dev Squads with 4 Grav and Cherub - 465
3 Assault Squads with 2 Flamers - 240
15 Free Drop Pods - 0
6 Deathwinds - 60
1845

That's a lot of drop pods. I'm sure Games Workshop would be very happy

 pretre wrote:
Chaplain x2 - 180
Captain - 90
9 Tac Squads in 9 Razorbacks with Las/Plas - 810
3 Dev Squads with 4 Grav and Cherubs in Drop Pods with Deathwind - 495
3 Assault Squads with 2 Flamers in Drop Pods - 270
1845

I like this much better!

Both are wrong now. :(