Captain America: Civil War - actual movie discussion starts page 10

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**hotsauceman1**

I still need to watch that.

**Soladrin**

Isn't Lee about 50 years too old for black bolt?

**hotsauceman1**

And isn't Stan Lee not an actor?

**Paradigm**

I don't know. I figured it would be a less physical role, so voice and presence would be more important than looking like he could win a brawl.

Back to CW, though, anyone else wondering if we'll see The Watchers turn up? The whole MCU has been getting more and more cosmic building towards Infinity, and the Watcher does appear at several major events in the CW comic, on the eve of the war, at Foster's death (which I yhink might not translate to the film) and before the final battle.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

hotsauceman1 wrote:
And isn't Stan Lee not an actor?

Christopher Lee (Saruman), not Stan.

**reds8n**

http://marvel.com/news/movies/24586/marvel_studios_begins_production_on_marvels_captain_america_civil_war

quite a cast list eh ?

Marvel Studios has commenced principal photography at Pinewood Studios in Atlanta, Georgia on “Captain America: Civil War,” the third installment of its Super Hero franchise. The production will shoot on location in Atlanta, Georgia, which serves as the base for the film’s production, as well as locations in Germany, Puerto Rico and Iceland.

Set for release in the United States on May 6, 2016, “Captain America: Civil War” is directed by Anthony and Joe Russo (Marvel’s “Captain America: The Winter Soldier,” “Community”) from a screenplay by Christopher Markus & Stephen McFeely (“Captain America: The Winter Solider,” Marvel’s “Captain America: The First Avenger”). The film returns Chris Evans (“Captain America: The Winter Soldier,” Marvel’s “Avengers: Age of Ultron”) as the iconic Super Hero character Steve Rogers/Captain America along with Robert Downey Jr. (“Avengers: Age of Ultron,” Marvel’s “Iron Man 3”) as Tony Stark/Iron Man, Scarlett Johansson (“Avengers: Age of Ultron,” “Captain America: The Winter Soldier”) as Natasha Romanoff/Black Widow, Sebastian Stan (“Captain America: The Winter Soldier,” “Captain America: The First Avenger”) as Bucky Barnes/Winter Soldier, Anthony Mackie (“Avengers: Age of Ultron,” “Captain America: The Winter Soldier”) as Sam Wilson/Falcon, Paul Bettany (“Avengers: Age of Ultron,” “Iron Man 3”) as The Vision, Jeremy Renner (“Avengers: Age of Ultron,” Marvel’s “The Avengers”) as Clint Barton/Hawkeye, Don Cheadle (“Avengers: Age of Ultron,” “Iron Man 3”) as Jim Rhodes/War Machine and Elizabeth Olsen (“Avengers: Age of Ultron,” “Godzilla”) as Wanda Maximoff/Scarlet Witch.

After his debut in Marvel’s “Ant-Man” on July 17, 2015, Paul Rudd (“Ant-Man,” ”Anchorman 2: The Legend Continues”) will make his first appearance alongside the Avengers as Scott Lang/Ant-Man in “Captain America: Civil War.”

The film also includes outstanding additional cast, including Chadwick Boseman (“42,” “Get on Up”) as T’Challa/Black Panther, Emily VanCamp (“Captain America: The Winter Soldier,” “Revenge”) as Sharon Carter/Agent 13, Daniel Brühl (“Inglourious Basterds,” “Bourne Ultimatum”), Frank Grillo (“Captain America: The Winter Soldier,” “Warrior”) as Brock Rumlow/Crossbones, William Hurt (“A History of Violence,” Marvel’s “The Incredible Hulk”) as General Thaddeus “Thunderbolt” Ross and Martin Freeman (“The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey,” “The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies”).

“Captain America: Civil War” picks up where “Avengers: Age of Ultron” left off, as Steve Rogers leads the new team of Avengers in their continued efforts to safeguard humanity. After another international incident involving the Avengers results in collateral damage, political pressure mounts to install a system of accountability and a governing body to determine when to enlist the services of the team. The new status quo fractures the Avengers while they try to protect the world from a new and nefarious villain.

Marvel’s “Captain America: Civil War” is produced by Marvel Studios’ president, Kevin Feige, with Louis D’Esposito, Alan Fine, Victoria Alonso, Patricia Whitcher, Nate Moore and Stan Lee serving as executive producers.

Directors Joe and Anthony Russo’s creative team also includes director of photography Trent Opaloch (“Captain America: The Winter Soldier,” “Elysium”), production designer Owen Paterson (“Godzilla,” “Matrix”), and three time Oscar®-nominated costume designer Judianna Makovsky (“Captain America: The Winter Soldier,” “Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone”).

Based on the Marvel comic character first published in 1941, “Captain America: Civil War ” continues the lineage of epic big-screen adventures chronicled in “Iron Man,” “The Incredible Hulk,” “Iron Man 2,” “Thor,” “Captain America: The First Avenger,” “Marvel's The Avengers,” “Iron Man 3,” “Thor: The Dark World,” “Captain America: The Winter Soldier,” “Guardians of the Galaxy,” “Avengers: Age of Ultron” and the upcoming release schedule, which includes Marvel’s “Ant-Man” on July 17, 2015, Marvel’s “Doctor Strange,” on November 4, 2016, Marvel’s “Guardians of the Galaxy 2,” on May 5, 2017, and Marvel’s “Thor: Ragnarok,” on November 3, 2017.

Marvel Studios most recently continued its unprecedented success with the release of “Avengers: Age of Ultron” on May 1, 2015. The film recorded the second biggest opening weekend of all time with a $191.3 million box office. It has also been the #1 release in every country where it has been released.

**hotsauceman1**

Well, I guess I have to pull a cart men and freeze myself.

**Paradigm**

Glad to see Crossbones and Agent 13 coming back, I felt Cap2 left open a lot of potential for both of them. More surprised to see Ross, though, especially as Hulk isn't featuring (presumably)

Looks like the Stamford equivalent will be an actual Avengers incident as well, so hopefully it'll open with the same kind of epic battle as AoU, and we'll get to see this awesome new lineup in action at least once before they all start killing each other.

**Soladrin**

So... nothing new in that article, all of that was on IMDB ages ago.

**Alpharius**

That's a lot of characters to try and cram into a 2 hour (give or take) movie.

The comic series had too many characters and dragged on to long - this movie sounds like a mess before it even starts!

Of course I'll give them the benefit of the doubt - and Cap 2 was one of the best MU movies to date, so...

...maybe this one will be OK?

**Kanluwen**

Whedon isn't involved, so I don't think we'll have too much of an issue with the characters present.

The Russo brothers gave us "Captain America: The Winter Soldier", so I'm willing to hold any doubts I might have at bay with a certain shield...

**kronk**

Winter Soldier was decent.

**WrentheFaceless**

Pretty much Avengers 2.5

**gorgon**

Alpharius wrote:
That's a lot of characters to try and cram into a 2 hour (give or take) movie.

The comic series had too many characters and dragged on to long - this movie sounds like a mess before it even starts!

Of course I'll give them the benefit of the doubt - and Cap 2 was one of the best MU movies to date, so...

...maybe this one will be OK?

I feel like Marvel likes the source material more than anyone else does. The only way this works in a 2-hour film is if it's more of a "Civil Dust-Up" than a "Civil War."

**H.B.M.C.**

Soladrin wrote:
... could this actually be a catalyst for Civil war?

No. Never.

Agents of SHIELD is a show written after the fact to fit around the MCU. It is neither integral nor influencing.

**Alpharius**

gorgon wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
That's a lot of characters to try and cram into a 2 hour (give or take) movie.

The comic series had too many characters and dragged on to long - this movie sounds like a mess before it even starts!

Of course I'll give them the benefit of the doubt - and Cap 2 was one of the best MU movies to date, so...

...maybe this one will be OK?

I feel like Marvel likes the source material more than anyone else does. The only way this works in a 2-hour film is if it's more of a "Civil Dust-Up" than a "Civil War."

Fair point - and probably pretty much what we're going to get!

**Easy E**

I've heard some movie insiders say that Cap is eclipse Thor's popularity at the moment and that could impact some studio decisions.

**Yodhrin**

Easy E wrote:
I've heard some movie insiders say that Cap is eclipse Thor's popularity at the moment and that could impact some studio decisions.

They're going to have to start flashing "buy your own Caribbean island" money if they want to keep Evans around, given he's apparently almost as sick of maintaining his superhero physique as Hemsworth and wants to be done with Cap in 2017 so he can work on directing. I suppose if they pull it off they might be able to transition to BuckyCap or FalconCap in a way that maintains the popularity, but Evans nailed the role pretty comprehensively so any replacement will have a hard time.

**Haight**

Alpharius wrote:
Haight wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
When I seen civil war in the title, I honestly thought this be an origin film, like Captain America fighting the confederates in 1861 or something

Instead, we get some super-hero punch up. Again! Boo

Eh, this storyline happened in Avengers comics, and it's one of the better modern storylines IMHO (actually, it's probably top 3 total timeline stories for me where Avengers are concerned). It has potential to be an amazing movie, though feth me, I am not sure how they'll do it justice in one installment.

I disagree - I think it was one of the worst, most overwrought and drawn out storylines in recent comics history and ended with one of the dumbest deaths and resurrections ever.

On top of that, given the VERY limited slate of heroes in the Marvel Movie Universe, a movie version of CIVIL WAR is going to be really hard to pull off.

Which is fine, but that doesn't keep it from being a commercial success.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_War_%28comics%29

An excerpt below, all of which is true (and by proxy, does not counteract your point, but reinforces it ; you are on one side of the polar opinions on the series, i'm on the other).

The series received polarizing reviews but was a commercial success, spawning many media adaptations, including the upcoming 2016 film Captain America: Civil War.

The wiki only hints (and unfortunately, only negatively at that) that it's a delivery mechanism of Erich Fromm's theory on the desires for freedom and security. That was the point of the book during a time in American politics where a few years past 9/11 (2006-2007), people started asking questions about stuff like the Patriot act and other post 9/11 legislation. Was it the hardest hitting commentary ? Nope. Did it do pretty good for a comic book and still manage to sell a good number of books, spawn a whole bunch of other titles and media related for even more sales ? Yup.

Is it the basis of what is undoubtedly going to be another huge grossing Marvel film ? Yup.

It did something right even if you personally didn't like it and found it's plot overwrought.

I will agree with you, the resurrection was stupid. They should have kept Cap dead if they really wanted the series to have an impact, and then reboot Captain America with a new super soldier, etc. if they wanted to continue with him. I'm with you on that !

About the "lot of characters" thing... not all of them ahve to play integral parts. You can flash and pan to other things pointing out which basically means you just need a talented costumeer and bodies to put them in to show "Hey, there's other gak going on in this conflict too, but this film focuses through the lens of these 10-15 characters (or whatever number)." There's cinematography tricks that can be employed to give the viewer a much larger sense of vastness while really only tacking on the number of extras in the film and focusing on the integral storyline of a smaller primary cast.

**MWHistorian**

I'm hoping for bucky/cap. I think they made a clue of that in the first Captain America story where, just before Bucky "dies" he picks up Cap's shield and fires a 1911, a trademark bucky/cap move.

But Civil War was my favorite Marvel Story line ever...right until the very end. I don't know how they're supposed to do that with 90% of the cast missing and only one movie.

And shameless plug, they really need a Thunderbolts movie with Songbird in it.

**Alpharius**

Haight wrote:

It did something right even if you personally didn't like it and found it's plot overwrought.

So...it's OK if I have an opinion on it? Whew!

**Platuan4th**

Haight wrote:
Which is fine, but that doesn't keep it from being a commercial success.

Y'mean like how Transformers 4 was the highest grossing movie of 2014?

Commercial success =/= good.

**Alpharius**

Platuan4th wrote:
Haight wrote:
Which is fine, but that doesn't keep it from being a commercial success.

Y'mean like how Transformers 4 was the highest grossing movie of 2014?

Commercial success =/= good.

I didn't want to be the one to bring it up, but...

Look, I'll be there to watch it (almost) no matter what, but I still wish they would have avoided the whole CIVIL WAR storyline entirely.

**Platuan4th**

Alpharius wrote:
Platuan4th wrote:
Haight wrote:
Which is fine, but that doesn't keep it from being a commercial success.

Y'mean like how Transformers 4 was the highest grossing movie of 2014?

Commercial success =/= good.

I didn't want to be the one to bring it up, but...

Look, I'll be there to watch it (almost) no matter what, but I still wish they would have avoided the whole CIVIL WAR storyline entirely.

Agreed.

**H.B.M.C.**

Yodhrin wrote:
They're going to have to start flashing "buy your own Caribbean island" money if they want to keep Evans around, given he's apparently almost as sick of maintaining his superhero physique as Hemsworth and wants to be done with Cap in 2017 so he can work on directing. I suppose if they pull it off they might be able to transition to BuckyCap or FalconCap in a way that maintains the popularity, but Evans nailed the role pretty comprehensively so any replacement will have a hard time.

He said he wants to take a break from acting for a while to do some directing, not that he's sick of playing Cap.

**Paradigm**

MWHistorian wrote:

And shameless plug, they really need a Thunderbolts movie with Songbird in it.

I'd love Zemo's Thunderbolts as a film; I really liked their arc in Civil War and Zemo is just awesome.

I think the 'villain' movie is a card Marvel is saving, though (perhaps for Loki at some point?). DC have Suicide Squad coming, and Sony were doing Sinister 6 (sadly I think that's dead in the water now), so they were probably going to let those test the waters before committing to the risk of a film based on the baddies.

**Mr Morden**

So far the MCU movies have been very very good and I hope this continues the theme - the large cast did not (IMO) hurt either Avengers 1 or 2 - not so great with Gof the G but that might well be not enjoying some of the specific characters as much......

Not really a big fan of most of the Marvel "events" - of them I really only enjoyed "Inferno" and "House of M" - which obviousy not relevant here......

Shame no Hulk or Thor......

The only down side I can see of the big "hero" cast is less likely get much from their indivudal suport teams/girlffirends which is a shame. For me its of the many things that MCU does better than the DC films - its not "just" an action film - actually have some good character interactions....../human moments - Hawkeye elements were standout for this in AOU

**Haight**

Alpharius wrote:
Haight wrote:

It did something right even if you personally didn't like it and found it's plot overwrought.

So...it's OK if I have an opinion on it? Whew!

You know exactly what i was driving at, it's not necessary to resort to this old trope ; "Ermagerd, we disagree, THANK GOD ITS OK WITH YOU I CAN HAVE AN OPINION". Rather than acknowledge each others points and counter points.

I was reinforcing several things you said, while bringing up other points. That's called normal discourse, point and counter point.

**Paradigm**

Mr Morden wrote:

The only down side I can see of the big "hero" cast is less likely get much from their indivudal suport teams/girlffirends which is a shame. For me its of the many things that MCU does better than the DC films - its not "just" an action film - actually have some good character interactions....../human moments - Hawkeye elements were standout for this in AOU

To be honest, I don't see this as a loss. Those characters are needed when it comes to the solo films just flesh out the cast, but in the team movies (and this is Avengers 2.5, really, rather than Cap 3) they are really a tad superfluous, especially as the dynamics and relationships between the characters in the team are so well handled. Hawkeye in AoU was the exception since up to that point he hasn't had any kind of character building done, but I'm very glad Jane/Pepper ect were left out of it.

I think this is another reason why Cap 2 was so good; the 'supporting cast' of Widow and Falcon were interesting, unique and cool characters in their own right, whereas the supporting casts of IM/Thor are basically the same set of 'lead's girlfriend/lead's friend/lead's other friend' and not the most interesting characters.

Thor 2 again did it better with the Asgardian characters (well, Loki for the most part), but at this point I'd be happy if we never saw Jane/Darcy/Selvig/Pepper/Happy on screen again. They've done their part in getting the Heroes to where they are, but what more can you do with them? It's not that they are inherently dull, just that now everything is connected, they just compete for screen time with the people we watch these films to see, the Avengers and other heroes.

**Alpharius**

Agreed on what made CAP2 so good - and why I'm worried that CAP3 won't be so good.

Still, they might manage to surprise us all AND make Haight super happy too!

**Haight**

Platuan4th wrote:
Haight wrote:
Which is fine, but that doesn't keep it from being a commercial success.

Y'mean like how Transformers 4 was the highest grossing movie of 2014?

Commercial success =/= good.

I didn't see Trans4, I stopped after Trans1 which i thought was terrible and decided my money was better spent than to see further installments. You didn't like Trans4, but it made a gak ton of money.

Would it be fair to state then that lots of people liked it, and liked Trans 1-3 enough to go see 4 ? Seeing as it was the highest grossing movie of 2014 and all.

Just because you and I don't like it doesn't mean its not good and that a multitude of people didn't like it, and therefore it was a success. Same thing with Civil War. If Trans was the highest grossing film of 2014, a lot of people did like it. Even if the majority on Dakka didn't.

This is the epitome of opinion.

Someone who likes Trans4 could bring up good points about it. I think it would be a HUGE overstatement, even if one didn't like Trans4 (or by proxy, anything else) to 100% write it off that every iota of it was terrible, nothing salvageable.

What i was pointing out about Civil War is that it's a polarizing storyline, but it was a commercial success - people seem to love it or hate, with little common ground. I think the story has good things / bad things in it. I liked its overall premise (The nod to Erich Fromm was really nice), but it had some stuff not done so well (the ending was... rushed. The resurrection was stupid, amongst other things).

Wholesale traffic in absolutes without point / counterpoint and open consideration of points we don't necessarily immediately 100% agree with makes discussion pointless. At that point we're basically throwing words at one another, and what's the point ?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alpharius wrote:
Agreed on what made CAP2 so good - and why I'm worried that CAP3 won't be so good.

Still, they might manage to surprise us all AND make Haight super happy too!