Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2016/03/27 19:14:53
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
Da Boss wrote: I did, and that scene also disgusted and annoyed me, and I've never re-watched it.
Nicholson's Joker is also massively over-rated. He's nothing more than Nicholson in white face paint.
I find Nicholson's performance great, but overshadowed by Ledgers portrayal.
As for gun-using Batman, the only instance I have ever accepted that is under Thomas Wayne in Flashpoint Paradox. Bruce using guns is a no-go for me(unless it's non-lethal, but even then I've never seen Batman use non-lethal guns to my knowledge).
I'll probably see it next Saturday when I make a train journey to see a mate, but I don't have high expectations.
YMDC = nightmare
2016/03/27 19:27:48
Subject: Re:Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
Da Boss wrote: The one I remember most clearly is the machine gunning scene.
The scene where he blows up the goon is hysterical. You should watch it again. The only thing is that the explosion doesn't follow up with a red mist coming down.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
generalgrog wrote: Doomsday was fantastic, good thing I didn't know it was going to be in the movie, I was surprised to see it.
Really? Doomsday was clearly shown in the spoilers. The problem is that he looks more like a Ninja Turtle than comics Doomsday.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/27 19:31:08
What is also interesting is that a lot of the things they show Batman doing are taken almost straight from the comics.
Spoiler:
When Batman busts through a wall, grabs the machine gun from the goon, proceeds then shoot the chemical tank one of Lex's henchmen is wearing making it explode and kill the henchmen that is from the comic. Of course in the comic Batman just outright shoots the guy after responding to "I swear I'll kill her" with "I believe you". Batman (often) doesn't overtly murder people like The Punisher but he sure has killed a lot in his time.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/27 21:47:01
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2016/03/27 22:24:17
Subject: Re:Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
I will admit that I was biased against Gal Gadot Wonder Woman before going to see the movie, and watching it did nothing to change that. For what little she was featured in it, she just kinda looked like she was in/from a Maybelline commercial. She was a total bore, and didn't remind me of anything Amazonian.
Spoiler:
The wife thinks they digitally thickened her legs, and I'm inclined to agree with her...
Affleck did a lot better than I expected, and I liked Cavill from Man of Steel already. Overall I felt the movie itself was okay, not great but okay. A lot of it was quite entertaining, with a few meh parts. I agree with the opinion that it was too much story for one movie.
I saw the movie today, and I really enjoyed it. Of course, with Gal Gadot and Amy Adams in it, what's not to enjoy?
Spoiler:
I thought the action was great, although I didn't especially care for the end, when Superman gets gored by Doomsday and "dies". Of course most of us knew when it happened that it wouldn't be permanent, but to me it was unnecessary. Having heard (from my brother) about that basically happening in the comics did make me feel better about it though. I did enjoy the cameos of Aquaman, Cyborg, and the Flash. Very cool previews of those characters.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 25 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
2016/03/28 05:48:43
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
Choppy. Poorly edited. Too slow and too fast. Morose. Relentlessly dour. Most of the characters - especially Lex - had no or poor motivations. Lex in general was bad and detracted from the film. Lois just kinda floated around almost because she had to be.
Sounds like I hated it, right?
Not at all. I think this is a deeply flawed movie, but I walked away entertained. The best part was sadly the opening sequence with Bruce in Metropolis, and nothing quite managed to rise to that level throughout the rest of the movie's runtime.
An easy 7/10 - well above average, but not great.
All in all this movie was failed (as opposed to failed) by its marketing. That second main trailer ruined the ending, and WB's 'damage control' trailer that switched the focus back to Batman vs Superman only deepened the wound because that trailer's big Batman action sequence takes place towards the end of the film, so you know that A). it's coming, B). so is Doomsday and C). they will all team up.
If Doomsday had been kept a secret, and the moment where WW showed up a complete unknown to audiences, this movie would have been fantastic.
Affleck was great and the best Batman/Wayne..bar none.
yup
So I have a question, not being someone who is totally up to speed with the DC universe...
Spoiler:
Who is Luthor referring to at the end? Darkseid?)
GG
Does seem the most likely option.
especially given the huge symbol carved on the planet in the dream/future vision and those flying guys.
also ;
Spoiler:
The bit where you see Cyborg being "made"... that looked like it might be a Mother Box there that fixes him perhaps ?
Given the identity of the Russian "miniboss" I wouldn't be too surprised if he's not dead perhaps ?
Spoiler:
In the comics KGBeast lost/cut off his hand, wouldn't be too surprised if he turns up again, allbeit somewhat crispy now.
Aquaman looked cool in his little cameo.
One wondered if he might in fact turn up at the end-- perhaps to help retrieve a certain thing from the water. Alas....
8 out of 10 for me.
WW was very good, much better than I'd thought. When she's fighting the beastie there's a bit when she's knocked down , and then has this big ol' grin on her face as if she's really relishing a chance to actually be a in fight.
Bodes well for her movie.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2016/03/28 09:29:55
Subject: Re:Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
Let's be real here, Aquaman has never looked cool:
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2016/03/28 11:49:42
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
Aquaman is hardcore. Loses his hand to pirahnas after his ability to talk with aquatic life is removed and what does he do? He doesn't complain, he sticks a harpoon on it, then gets revenge on the guy that took his arm away.
He will also throw a bear at you. That's way more badass than Supes will ever be.
YMDC = nightmare
2016/03/28 11:58:15
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
And in Injustice, he was one of the better characters. Plus being an angry drunk in the Throne of Atlantis movie. Aquaman hasn't been a wuss/joke for years. He's actually kinda badass now. Mamoa will be cementing his role as a badass from here on out, I think.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
2016/03/28 13:35:21
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
Saw it this weekend and really liked it. Loved Affleck's performance of not just Batman, but Bruce Wayne. He is the definitive Batman as far as I am concerned, and hope he does 20 movies in the role.
Keaton was okay for his time as Batman, but terrible as Bruce Wayne, and Bale was ok as Bruce Wayne, but terrible as Batman. Actually, I am not really a huge fan of Nolan's movies even though I agree they are better than the previous ones, but to me, the best thing that came out of the trilogy was Heath's Joker, even know I have the feeling Leto's is going to surpass it as more authentic Joker.
Wonder Woman is awesome as you hear.
The move had the usual over the top destruction that really just bores me now. I mean, going thru 9/11, I understand what the significance of a building or two collapsing means. However, when you destroy much of a city, its desensitizing. Nevertheless, I am a huge fan of Snyder's style, casting, and artistic direction. I am a huge fan of the extended edition of The Watchmen too, and can't wait to see the extended version of Batman v Superman.
The one thing I keep reading about, which blows me away for its stupidity, is the criticism of Superman killing Zod in Man of Steel. It made perfect sense to me, and I cannot understand how anyone can say 'Superman murdered Zod'. So many idiots populate this planet.
Anyway, I am a huge MCU fan, and have been so excited for Captain America - Civil War, but I dont think any of those actors will capture the essence of their characters as the BvS ones did. I think Civil War will be a fun movie, but I appreciated the darkness of this film. The Batman fight scenes alone are worth the price of admission.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/28 13:41:53
2016/03/28 13:52:37
Subject: Re:Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
The bit where you see Cyborg being "made"... that looked like it might be a Mother Box there that fixes him perhaps ?
Almost definitely! Like I think I said in my 'War and Peace' rambling review, I believe that I may have unconsciously punched the air in the theater when that showed up. Fortunately the theater had stadium seating, so no injuries or brawls resulted.
So in the "Knightmare" sequence...
Spoiler:
...those are obviously Parademons, and I guess we can assume the helmeted guys are Justifiers?
Seems like audience reviews -- while not stellar -- are still tracking a good bit higher than those of the critics.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/28 13:53:05
H.B.M.C. wrote: Choppy. Poorly edited. Too slow and too fast. Morose. Relentlessly dour. Most of the characters - especially Lex - had no or poor motivations. Lex in general was bad and detracted from the film. Lois just kinda floated around almost because she had to be.
Sounds like I hated it, right?
Not at all. I think this is a deeply flawed movie, but I walked away entertained. The best part was sadly the opening sequence with Bruce in Metropolis, and nothing quite managed to rise to that level throughout the rest of the movie's runtime.
An easy 7/10 - well above average, but not great.
All in all this movie was failed (as opposed to failed) by its marketing. That second main trailer ruined the ending, and WB's 'damage control' trailer that switched the focus back to Batman vs Superman only deepened the wound because that trailer's big Batman action sequence takes place towards the end of the film, so you know that A). it's coming, B). so is Doomsday and C). they will all team up.
If Doomsday had been kept a secret, and the moment where WW showed up a complete unknown to audiences, this movie would have been fantastic.
My wife hadn't seen any of the trailers, and indeed loved those scenes. She actually started clapping when Wonder Woman showed up. She also thought Eisenberg was supposed to be like the Joker, which worked better than as Lex Luthor.
I think the reason Wonder Woman is such a hit with audiences is because she seems to be the only character who actually has any fun in the movie.
I think the reason Wonder Woman is such a hit with audiences is because she seems to be the only character who actually has any fun in the movie.
I've read that a few times.
Given Batman's origin and some peeks into his past here and the whole setup of the film - no surprise that he's rather...angry.
Superman is also shown as conflicted and unsure as to whether or not he should even be 'Superman' - a theme that's repeated throughout the movie. So no surprise that he's rather conflicted as well.
Wonder Woman?
Well, something so awful happened that she basically exiled her self for almost 100 years.
But yes, she appears to enjoy a good fight too!
2016/03/28 15:38:53
Subject: Re:Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
Saw it with the wife this weekend. Overall enjoyable but once the wife and I started discussing it fell apart fast for us. I think they are fighting so many incarnations of all the characters except for Wonder Woman that it's hard to overcome that.
Spoiler:
On that note Gadot was bleh for me. Cheap suit tricks and what looked like cgi'd thicker legs doesn't make her look Amazonian and she was just there to promote her solo movie and set up Justice League. While I don't mind someone making appearances for upcoming media she should have contributed to the plot somehow. Everything she did Batman and Superman could have done if they just barely tried. I don't think I have any interest in the Wonder Woman movie. The wife didn't believe her in the role either and she doesn't care about comics.
My favorite Lex has always been the Smallville Lex. So I didn't mind Eisenberg's Lex outside of a few of his moments like the speech where the insanity came out at the wrong time for the plot. Also I hated they gave him zero reasons for his super over the top convoluted plot to get them to fight to kill one or the other.
Affleck was the standout for me. He nailed the feel and style of the Batman for me while doing a fabulous job of being Bruce too. Honestly he's my favorite Batman. Others have been better at one or the other but he's the best overall to date. Irons was an excellent Alfred to me. Just the right touch of exasperation with his charge/son. Did anyone catch the name of the guy Affleck called at the beginning of the movie that was his employee in the tower that fell? I couldn't tell if it was Jim or John. If it was Jim and it was Gordon who he gave a job to after retirement that would have actually made Affleck's animosity much more realistic to me. But it probably wasn't.
Supes was Supes. Solid performance for being given so few moments to actually act. The sorry on his face as he stands in the fire was excellent.
It just felt like they jammed to much stuff in and so felt incomplete and way to long.
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)
2016/03/28 15:52:33
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
I think the reason Wonder Woman is such a hit with audiences is because she seems to be the only character who actually has any fun in the movie.
I've read that a few times.
Given Batman's origin and some peeks into his past here and the whole setup of the film - no surprise that he's rather...angry.
Superman is also shown as conflicted and unsure as to whether or not he should even be 'Superman' - a theme that's repeated throughout the movie. So no surprise that he's rather conflicted as well.
Wonder Woman?
Well, something so awful happened that she basically exiled her self for almost 100 years.
But yes, she appears to enjoy a good fight too!
She also enjoys yanking Bruce's chain earlier in the movie. She's cocky and she clearly likes a good fight. Batman is tortured throughout the movie, but that's the point. Superman on the other hand...Superman made sex in a bathtub look grim.
I liked the film. I thought Affleck and Cavill both nailed their roles. Godot's interpretation was enjoyable to watch, but some of her scenes at the end felt inconsistent. The first half of the movie was a mess, but the payoff at the end lifted the film in my eyes. The score was really distracting for the first hour, overbearing and monotonous. I suspect that was because Snyder wanted every scene to sound 'epic', even when nothing was happening. The guy probably listens to Dies Irae every time he visits the john.
I think the reason Wonder Woman is such a hit with audiences is because she seems to be the only character who actually has any fun in the movie.
I've read that a few times.
Given Batman's origin and some peeks into his past here and the whole setup of the film - no surprise that he's rather...angry.
Superman is also shown as conflicted and unsure as to whether or not he should even be 'Superman' - a theme that's repeated throughout the movie. So no surprise that he's rather conflicted as well.
Wonder Woman?
Well, something so awful happened that she basically exiled her self for almost 100 years.
But yes, she appears to enjoy a good fight too!
I think that what they wanted to show us at the end is a re-energized Bruce who's found the better parts of himself again (see the scene in the cell), AND who now has a defined purpose for being Batman beyond crime in Gotham. I dunno, I just really like the idea of him getting organized and prepping for what's to come. Clearly these guys get that about the character from what we saw in the fight against Supes. Anyway, it's almost like someone or something chose wisely to send him those visions...?
Meanwhile, we have (presumably, given the final scene) a more experienced Superman with a much-improved relationship with the public and government. Much about WW isn't clear, but presumably she's discovered some very good reasons why she should get re-engaged in "man's world." I doubt JL will be sweetness and light, but going forward these characters might be the more familiar, positive forces that people want to see.
Regarding WW, I understand the argument for giving her a solo film first. However, I hazard to guess that WB wanted to interest us (and especially younger males) with this WW before her solo film hits theaters. The track record with female superhero films is very poor, although obviously limited. I can imagine some trepidation on the studio's part, given the investment. Note how much farther down the road Marvel is with their franchise, and they won't have something similar for what, a couple more years yet? It would appear that they're also wary of the risks, despite having a character and actress (ScarJo) clearly capable of heading a successful film.
I took it more to mean that he got all the info from the Kryptonian library, got to the part about the New Gods -- especially the naughty ones -- and it kinda blew his mind. Almost like a Lovecraft character rolling around gibbering after being confronted with that kind of cosmic horror. Darkseid is pretty much cosmic horror, after all. And Lex was already off his rocker about a single Kryptonian. Then he probably got hit with stuff like the existence of the Anti-Life Equation, etc.
Personally I loved the note it struck at the end with Bruce aware that something's coming, and starting to make plans. We're talking about Batman with advanced warning...that gak is in the bag.
I think I might have actually fist-pumped seeing the Mother Box during the Cyborg sequence.
Spot on stuff there Gorgon - I think you've nailed it!
Well, most of it?
It still appears that Lex knew...almost everything about almost every one pre-Kryptonian Scout Ship.
They've made him look more generally demonic to fit the whole god/man/devil theme, but ladies and germs, I do believe that's Steppenwolf with Mother Boxes in tow. The horns are different, but they have that forward/downward lean.
Including that scene would have helped the bit with the painting, although it might have been another thing to confuse the non-DC fans. It'll be interesting to see how the extended version and extra half-hour improves the movie (or doesn't).
So presumably the orbs over his head represent the planetary system of Apokolips? They seem to be moving in an orrery-like fashion. Looks like the Kryptonians had extensive knowledge of the New Gods.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/03/28 20:34:15
Looking at the box office and it's $420m? That's even better than predicted.
It seems like the film that is good visually and to Snyder's credit, he does know how to do action scenes. Seeing it Saturday with a mate for sure now, will probably go in, enjoy the action but leave discussion of the film alone lest I feel like I wasted my time.
YMDC = nightmare
2016/03/28 21:51:02
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
-- 
(more)
(building)
(less)
~16000 Astra Militarum: 
~2300 | Leagues of Votann: 
~5000 | Kruleboyz: 
~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: 
~700
