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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/28 22:00:42
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Oh I put very little effort in my post :/
I meant to say that it was better than the projected box office weekend opening (which was $350m).
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YMDC = nightmare |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/28 22:21:33
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Fixture of Dakka
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Alpharius wrote:I read that the budget on this movie was around $250 million, and that an additional $150 to $180 million was spent on 'advertising and promotion'.
I then read that the fill will need to pull in $800 million world wide in order to 'break even'.
Huh?
What (obviously) am I missing?
Perhaps some of it is going to be seen as 'sunk costs' and a bunch of the advertising budget is being thought of as advertising for the Justice League in general. And, some accounting wizardly maybe has those 'advertising and promotion' costs spread across the following films?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/28 22:41:09
Subject: Re:Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Phanobi
Canada,Prince Edward Island
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I left this movie with a very resounding "meh". Great visuals and acting but the whole movie seemed incredibly rushed and humourless as if DC just wants to move on from origin stories and make a JL movie as soon as possible.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/28 22:59:33
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Norn Queen
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Something I loved about how they did Batman
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/28 23:03:57
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Fixture of Dakka
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I'm wondering if that was a cue they took from 'Arrow' actually.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/28 23:15:24
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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Alpharius wrote:I read that the budget on this movie was around $250 million, and that an additional $150 to $180 million was spent on 'advertising and promotion'.
I then read that the fill will need to pull in $800 million world wide in order to 'break even'.
Huh?
What (obviously) am I missing?
Well...it certainly wasn't spent on paying off film critics.
I'd be inclined to chalk that up to a dire analysis. Hard to believe that they'd paint themselves into that kind of corner.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 00:21:51
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Alpharius wrote:I read that the budget on this movie was around $250 million, and that an additional $150 to $180 million was spent on 'advertising and promotion'.
I then read that the fill will need to pull in $800 million world wide in order to 'break even'.
Huh?
What (obviously) am I missing?
The WB studio spend $250M + $150M = $400M total on the movie. That is their cost out of pocket.
The movie theaters get revenue from moviegoers and send a fraction of that back to the studio. The fraction varies but is about half of the gate. More in the first month, less in trailing months.
The movie needs to drive $800M global revenue so that the theaters can send the $400M back to the studio to pay for the devleopment, etc. The remaining $400M covers the cost of having a movie theater, ushers, along with the theater's overhead and profit.
If the movie only made $400M in the theaters, then there would only be about $200M going back to the studio, for a net studio loss of -$200M.
If you look at Age of Ultron, they pulled in $1,400M globally against a nominally similar $400M budget, then the studio would have gotten $700M back, for a nice $300M profit. That's good business.
If you look at Fantastic Four (2015), they grossed $168M against a $200M budget, getting back a mere $85M for a whopping -$115M loss. Ouch.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/29 00:24:53
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 00:21:52
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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I absolutely loved this movie. I was surprised how much it was a Batman movie, with Superman more as a secondary character.
And it was a really good take on Batman, with the brutality and insanity of the character put at the forefront and turned up to 11. It seemed to be both a new take on Batman and also a continuation of the character in Nolan's films. It fit well with the very dark vision Snyder is trying to bring to the franchise.
The film also managed to expand on Man of Steel's themes and explore them in much more interesting ways. The Day of the Dead scene, brief as it was, probably said more about religion than most religious movies that I've seen. The film also managed to explore and expand on the themes of Nolan's Batman, and probably look at them in a more interesting, less in your face way. But the two sets of themes didn't really fit that well together, though, and where they should have been in conflict in Batman v Superman fight scene there wasn't really anything - ultimately that fight felt driven more by plotting than any true difference in the characters. I think it did probably lead to a lot of people's complaints about there being too much movie - in terms of events and complications there was no more to this than any of the Nolan Batman movies, but with two competing sets of themes I think that led to the feeling that this had too much movie going on. But that's just nitpicking the day after the movie, not a real complaint as it didn't bother me when I was watching the movie.
Probably my only real complaint was Batman's dream sequence, which stopped the pacing of the film stone cold, at a point where the film needed to be focusing and moving to it's conclusion.
JohnHwangDD wrote:I just like how DC was obliged to do Batman's origin. Again.
I kinda wonder if anybody doesn't know the Batman origin at this point:
Can't we just take that as a given?
I think the scenes going back to his parent's death weren't so much to explain to the audience that Batman's origins, but so the audience made the connection in the Martha scene.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Da Boss wrote:However, I would say that "The batman does not kill" is one of the most consistent things about the character.
It's not a massive crime for Snyder to go against that - Burton did the same thing.
Nolan's Batman killed as well. Remember the nonsense logic at the end of Batman Begins - I can't kill, but I don't have to save you. It's funny how that annoyed me, whereas this Batman's far more extreme violence was fine. I think it's more about how the character fits within the given movie universe, and how well the character is consistent and believable within that particular work.
JohnHwangDD wrote:The WB studio spend $250M + $150M = $400M total on the movie. That is their cost out of pocket.
The movie theaters get revenue from moviegoers and send a fraction of that back to the studio. The fraction varies but is about half of the gate. More in the first month, less in trailing months.
The movie needs to drive $800M global revenue so that the theaters can send the $400M back to the studio to pay for the devleopment, etc. The remaining $400M covers the cost of having a movie theater, ushers, along with the theater's overhead and profit.
Yeah, this is the finance that studios operate under. Rule of thumb is that you want to make back about double your total budget to break even, but because the studio gets more out of the first week of release and less each week after, a film that takes a lot of its gross in the first week will be better for the studio than a film that earns steadily for weeks or even months. This produces the unfortunate reality that a film that's really good but has poor initial interest can still end up being a loser for the studio even when good word of mouth means it keeps making money for months after the initial release. And the flip side of that is that a much hyped movie that sucks, and therefore has a massive box office drop off after the opening weekend can still be a big money spinner, because the studio is getting almost all of that early return.
The other complication is what they call the 'nut'. This is a fixed operating cost negotiated between the theatre and the studio. It represents the cost of keeping a theatre open, and the first chunk of box office goes to cover that before any money goes to the studio. So a film on opening might in one theatre might gross $10,000, but $2,000 of that might go to the theatre first up, and then the remaining $8,000 is split 80% to the studio, 20% to the theatre. The effect of that is smaller movies with lower $/theatre actually have to have a better box office to budget ratio to break even than huge tent pole productions that are much more likely to put more bums on seats in each showing.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2016/03/29 01:29:01
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 01:35:05
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Speaking of F4, It's sad that F4's record for worst Friday to Sunday decline in ticket sales was broken by BvS.
Still, $420m for 3 days isn't bad at all. Not great, but not bad. I can see $800m easily attaintable for it's theatrical run.
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YMDC = nightmare |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 02:02:35
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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Well, Easter isn't a big moviegoing day.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 02:15:25
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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That big 55% drop suggests that reviews and word of mouth having an effect on the non-fanboy crowd. That suggests that week-over-week is going to see big drops. We could have a big -70% drop next weekend from $170M US down to $51M, although the foreign side probably won't drop so fast. I think the movie breaks even entirely on the strength of foreign sales. If BvS actually finishes under $750M globally before Civil War hits, I will be surprised.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 02:16:43
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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[DCM]
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sebster and JohnHwangDD - thanks!
That's the Movie Math I was missing!
Frozocrone wrote:Speaking of F4, It's sad that F4's record for worst Friday to Sunday decline in ticket sales was broken by BvS.
Wha...?!?
A FF comparison?
That's a..long way to go to make a slim point!
Frozocrone wrote:
Still, $420m for 3 days isn't bad at all. Not great, but not bad. I can see $800m easily attaintable for it's theatrical run.
That's...not bad?
OK...
gorgon wrote:Well, Easter isn't a big moviegoing day.
I'm betting that the studio is probably pretty happy with the results so far - the true test is that dreaded 2nd weekend drop off though!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 02:23:24
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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JohnHwangDD wrote:That big 55% drop suggests that reviews and word of mouth having an effect on the non-fanboy crowd. That suggests that week-over-week is going to see big drops. We could have a big -70% drop next weekend from $170M US down to $51M, although the foreign side probably won't drop so fast. I think the movie breaks even entirely on the strength of foreign sales. If BvS actually finishes under $750M globally before Civil War hits, I will be surprised.
I don't know if the bad reviews are exactly having that effect. My parents would never have seen the movie until they heard how bad it was, making into something of a challenge. My wife had no interest in seeing the film until the Sad Affleck meme dropped. Unlike FF, the entertaining bad reviews for this mix well with the spectacle and the high profile to make the critical bomb into something of a phenomenon. Combine that with the fact that people watching for the Batfleck or Wonder Woman are coming away happy, and it may end up with repeat viewing legs.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/29 02:25:58
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 02:29:45
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Alpharius wrote:sebster and JohnHwangDD - thanks! That's the Movie Math I was missing! Frozocrone wrote:Still, $420m for 3 days isn't bad at all. Not great, but not bad. I can see $800m easily attaintable for it's theatrical run. That's... not bad? I'm betting that the studio is probably pretty happy with the results so far - the true test is that dreaded 2nd weekend drop off though! You're welcome! Merely breaking even on $400M is not good when the executives want this to be a $1 BILLION movie, like Avengers. And Iron Man 3. And Age of Ultron. And Civil War. With quirky "little" movies like Deadpool and Guardians pulling a fat $750M each. They wanted to pull in at least $100M profit on this, and were probably internally high-fiving themselves for a $250M profit before the final prints came out and marketing went into "damage control" (hence, the NDAs and embargos and limited critical screenings). It is a hell of a thing when you pay top dollar to get something that is obviously Not Good, and still have to market it like crazy. Also, that Fantastic Four reference isn't the meanest thing I've read. Professional reviewers were semi-facetiously supposing that BvS was actually a Producers gambit.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/29 02:32:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 02:41:59
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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[DCM]
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I just think that a lot of people are working really, really hard to tell everyone how bad this movie is when it actually is pretty good and a lot of fun - if you're a fan of this kind of movie (superhero, action/adventure, Batman, etc.)!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 02:44:35
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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BobtheInquisitor wrote: JohnHwangDD wrote:That big 55% drop suggests that reviews and word of mouth having an effect on the non-fanboy crowd. That suggests that week-over-week is going to see big drops. We could have a big -70% drop next weekend from $170M US down to $51M, although the foreign side probably won't drop so fast. I think the movie breaks even entirely on the strength of foreign sales. If BvS actually finishes under $750M globally before Civil War hits, I will be surprised.
I don't know if the bad reviews are exactly having that effect.
Cause and effect is always hard to prove, so we'll just have to see how it turns out. Automatically Appended Next Post: Alpharius wrote:I just think that a lot of people are working really, really hard to tell everyone how bad this movie is when it actually is pretty good and a lot of fun - if you're a fan of this kind of movie (superhero, action/adventure, Batman, etc.)!
So, how'd you like Batman & Robin?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/29 02:46:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 03:50:06
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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JohnHwangDD wrote:Merely breaking even on $400M is not good when the executives want this to be a $1 BILLION movie, like Avengers. And Iron Man 3. And Age of Ultron. And Civil War. With quirky "little" movies like Deadpool and Guardians pulling a fat $750M each. They wanted to pull in at least $100M profit on this, and were probably internally high-fiving themselves for a $250M profit before the final prints came out and marketing went into "damage control" (hence, the NDAs and embargos and limited critical screenings). There's probably no junkier form of financial review than claiming a project failed because it didn't reach some arbitrary profit expectation that you made up yourself. What the actual studio expectations were for BvS are unknown to us, and even if we had them they're irrelevant to the actual result. All that matters is the cold, hard maths of money in, money out. Automatically Appended Next Post: Alpharius wrote:I just think that a lot of people are working really, really hard to tell everyone how bad this movie is when it actually is pretty good and a lot of fun - if you're a fan of this kind of movie (superhero, action/adventure, Batman, etc.)! Yeah, when the bad reviews hit, and when a few people on this thread kept driving negatives, I admit I started to think the film was a genuine dog. Having re-watched much of Man of Steel didn't help either. If we hadn't pre-booked tickets with friends my wife and I might not have gone (I was really worried about dragging her to another Man of Steel). But then I watched the film and it was just great fun. The action was properly brutal and engaging, the characters were all well drawn and realised, and while the plotting was more 'busy' than effective, it didn't bother me during the film.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/29 03:55:11
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 06:40:32
Subject: Re:Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator
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Ok, so the critic reviews have been terrible, and considering how much I disliked MoS, I was firmly not going to see this film. However; I am hearing alot of positive (if not amazing) things from regular people, and I wonder if that's just a product of the people who've seen it already are largely those who enjoyed MoS, and consequently made the effort to see this eairly, and, in turn; are enjoying the same sort of things about this film.
So, I suppose my question to those who've seen it and liked it is; did you also enjoy MoS? and is this film more of what you enjoyed? Or; if you didn't like MoS and did enjoy this film; would you recommend it to a fellow did-not-like-MoS person?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 07:07:30
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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[MOD]
Solahma
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This is one of the most pathetic movies I have ever seen. I am pretty sure it was directed by a committee of accountants. Batman is a moron who uses guns to kill people without pause or remorse. Wonder Woman is an after thought in every possible sense. Superman is the only sympathetic character but his greatest foe is the script itself, which overpowers him again and again until it finally kills him and then hounds him in the grave. I have never before walked out of a theater with such a strong sense of the basic contempt in which a studio can hold the movie-going public.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 08:06:58
Subject: Re:Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Pendix wrote:Ok, so the critic reviews have been terrible, and considering how much I disliked MoS, I was firmly not going to see this film. However; I am hearing alot of positive (if not amazing) things from regular people, and I wonder if that's just a product of the people who've seen it already are largely those who enjoyed MoS, and consequently made the effort to see this eairly, and, in turn; are enjoying the same sort of things about this film. So, I suppose my question to those who've seen it and liked it is; did you also enjoy MoS? and is this film more of what you enjoyed? Or; if you didn't like MoS and did enjoy this film; would you recommend it to a fellow did-not-like-MoS person? I think it depends on why you didn't like Man of Steel, because there's many different reasons that people didn't like Man of Steel Personally, I disliked Man of Steel because the plodding first half used flashbacks to pretend something was actually happening, because it spent ages on Kevin Costner in yet more cornfields giving some of the worst and weirdest parenting advice I've ever seen, and then spent the second half of the movie with Superman and some other superpowered beings smashing each other in to buildings, which didn't seem to hurt anyone involved... meanwhile Amy Adams killed a bunch of Kryptonians extras with the help of AI/space ghost Russell Crowe. Then it finally got to a conclusion with a bunch of sci-fi gobbledigook that amounted to a crazy plan that just might work! Oh and Russell Crowe was riding a space dragon, the hell was that. I actually got annoyed all over again just typing that out. Anyhow, the new film had none of that. Probably the only thing that's carried over is that Superman, and the whole of the film, is still very grim and very serious. But it works better here because it's not saddled with yet another origin story, and actually looks at the moral questions of Superman's existence in a more interesting way in a shorter time (there's a lot more than Batman than Superman). That said, the film won't be everyone's cup of tea, as you've probably read in this thread. Batman is not a purely good force, he's brutal and more than a little bit crazy, and way less reserved in his use of violence, and that clearly puts some people off. And I think some people naturally want a lighter tone. Anyhow, yeah, all I can say is I really didn't like Man of Steel, and I really liked this. I can't tell you you'll like the film, all I can do is tell you what I like about it, and hope you give it a shot. Oh, and it did spend one short scene giving a quick explanation for why Kevin Costner's advice in the first movie was so terrible. So there's that.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/29 08:12:17
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 08:13:49
Subject: Re:Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Fixture of Dakka
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Pendix wrote:
So, I suppose my question to those who've seen it and liked it is; did you also enjoy MoS? and is this film more of what you enjoyed? Or; if you didn't like MoS and did enjoy this film; would you recommend it to a fellow did-not-like-MoS person?
I'd say it depends on what you liked or didn't like about Man of Steel. I think that's a big difficulty with the film. - The film goes out of its way to directly address some of the issues people had with Man of Steel's plotline, so the people who had those issues are going to be pretty happy.
On the other hand, there are still many stylistic choices (One could call it Snyder-isms), that are the same with Man of Steel, that if people really hated in Man of Steel, they are still going to hate in Batman V Superman.
I honestly do genuinely think that reviews either for, or against this film aren't going to help you decide whether to see it, particularly if you're geekily inclined. You will probably find things you dislike in the film but on the other hand, there are things that you are probably going to love too. It's going to be down to your own opinions whether the 'things you dislike' outweigh the 'things you love,' which is why I think this film is a hard one to decide.
On the other hand, for the non geekily inclined, I think it's going to end up being a case of whether the spectacle of it all does end up outweighing the messiness and confusion aspects of it.
Personally, I kinda want to go see it again in the cinema. - I wanted to do the same for Star Wars but never got round to it, yet I'm probably going to make an attempt for BvS so that's got to say something, right?
The thing is, a lot of the negative things from people who have seen the movie in this thread, I probably can't really disagree with. What the things I'm disagreeing with it about are more the "importance" or "impact" of those things, or whether personally there are mitigating circumstances on those issues that mean that I, personally am ok with. And, ultimately, it's going to be where you personally lie on that spectrum is going to decide on whether you find it's an enjoyable film or not.
So yeah, overall, the only way to find that out for sure is to just go see it, you might be pleasantly surprised and, the film is certainly at its best on the big screen.
Or you might not be.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/29 08:35:04
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 09:05:44
Subject: Re:Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Commander Cain wrote:Stuff I didn't like: Everything about Doomsday. I really enjoyed the comic with him in so to see his origin changed and a really bad CGI blob replace him
Hey man, don't fat shame the Cave Troll. He's had a hard time finding new roles since Lord of the Rings. Frankly I'm glad to see he's getting himself back up on hit feet and getting back out there. He had pretty solid acting chops in this movie for what little was asked of him.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 09:41:45
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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I'm less and less enamoured by the fact that Batman was killing people left right and centre.
Snyder, it's time to go. Let someone else handle Justice League.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 09:44:37
Subject: Re:Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Pendix wrote:Ok, so the critic reviews have been terrible, and considering how much I disliked MoS, I was firmly not going to see this film. However; I am hearing alot of positive (if not amazing) things from regular people, and I wonder if that's just a product of the people who've seen it already are largely those who enjoyed MoS, and consequently made the effort to see this eairly, and, in turn; are enjoying the same sort of things about this film.
As usual, the truth is somewhere in between  As with most movies, it has good and bad sides. Visuals, music and most acting (Eisenberg excluded) is really damn good, but the pacing is lacking and script / editing are trash. My best advice is to fully turn off your brain when watching the movie - and you will have a very, very enjoyable time with lots of fun. It all depends on what you're looking for in a movie - and if you just want some OOOOMP POW POW WOOOSH PEWPEW fun times, then this is your perfect movie. If you expect anything more, you will be disappointed.
It has one of the huge flaws many superhero movies and movies in general have and why they are vastly inferior to series - character development. Compare a Daredevil to a Batman and Batman is ridiculously bad in comparison. This is a given as you compare 2ish hours to 13ish hours of a series. Like, Daredevil in the series has a similar conflicht that Batman has - he doesn't want to kill people, but people get killed because he doesn't kill...uhm. So I think that Affleck version of Batman, the story of a bitter, but realistic man, is a pretty damn good believable story.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 11:08:09
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Feels like this Batman was based more on Thomas Wayne's Batman (Flashpoint) than anything else. Flashpoint Batman was pretty brutal! Anyways, I think I'll stick with The Dark Knight Returns 1&2 for my Frank Miller Batman. Those films are awesome sauce.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/29 11:19:06
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 11:14:34
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Alpharius wrote:I read that the budget on this movie was around $250 million, and that an additional $150 to $180 million was spent on 'advertising and promotion'.
I then read that the fill will need to pull in $800 million world wide in order to 'break even'.
Huh?
What (obviously) am I missing?
Its Hollywood accounting gimmicks, designed to insure even blockbusters somehow never make a profit.
It doesn't even include package tie ins, which are the real money maker.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 13:55:06
Subject: Re:Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 15:25:19
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Manchu wrote:This is one of the most pathetic movies I have ever seen. I am pretty sure it was directed by a committee of accountants. Batman is a moron who uses guns to kill people without pause or remorse. Wonder Woman is an after thought in every possible sense. Superman is the only sympathetic character but his greatest foe is the script itself, which overpowers him again and again until it finally kills him and then hounds him in the grave. I have never before walked out of a theater with such a strong sense of the basic contempt in which a studio can hold the movie-going public.
Did we see the same movie? I would love to see what you expected to happen. Like in detail.
Batman killing without pause or remorse? This isnt the Batman of the 1950s. Batman has been getting darker and darker since the late 80s. The idea that a 'hero' only using his fists, is always going to find himself not having to resort to lethal methods at some point while facing guys with G36s and other assault rifles is just as looney as the idea of someone going up against guys with G36s with just his fists. This Batman is scarred from losing he friends to guys he was trying to defeat without killing. I think its reasonable for him to set that restriction aside from time to time, after all, these guys are trying to kill him.
Its like hearing Superman murdered Zod. Absolutely ridiculous. Zod was hell bent on killing everyone on earth, and gave Superman no choice in killing him. If anything, Superman is guilty of not killing him sooner.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 16:21:38
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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KTG17 wrote: Manchu wrote:This is one of the most pathetic movies I have ever seen. I am pretty sure it was directed by a committee of accountants. Batman is a moron who uses guns to kill people without pause or remorse. Wonder Woman is an after thought in every possible sense. Superman is the only sympathetic character but his greatest foe is the script itself, which overpowers him again and again until it finally kills him and then hounds him in the grave. I have never before walked out of a theater with such a strong sense of the basic contempt in which a studio can hold the movie-going public.
Did we see the same movie? I would love to see what you expected to happen. Like in detail.
Batman killing without pause or remorse? This isnt the Batman of the 1950s. Batman has been getting darker and darker since the late 80s. The idea that a 'hero' only using his fists, is always going to find himself not having to resort to lethal methods at some point while facing guys with G36s and other assault rifles is just as looney as the idea of someone going up against guys with G36s with just his fists. This Batman is scarred from losing he friends to guys he was trying to defeat without killing. I think its reasonable for him to set that restriction aside from time to time, after all, these guys are trying to kill him.
Its like hearing Superman murdered Zod. Absolutely ridiculous. Zod was hell bent on killing everyone on earth, and gave Superman no choice in killing him. If anything, Superman is guilty of not killing him sooner.
Well, some folks just don't like an overly dark and disturbed Batman. I think the conclusion intended to show a Batman who got his groove back. But this Batman -- clearly TDKR-inspired, but also maybe a step beyond that -- was fairly batgak crazy for the majority of the film, and darn near a villain, which doesn't reflect what we see in current comics.
Stepping back, I think finding the right tone/characterization for the DC characters is a little trickier than the characters in the Marvel-made films, which were more of a blank slate to the general audience. Heck, the Marvel movie characters are now informing the comic versions, something you especially see with Iron Man. I simply don't remember Tony Stark being as happy-go-lucky or wisecracky in the past as he's been post-RDJ.
Meanwhile, in both comments and reviews for both MoS and BvS, Christopher Reeve tends to come up again and again. It's a narrow, single rendition of the character across its extensive history (similar to the BvS Batman), but clearly people like a Superman talks corny, acts the fool as Clark Kent, and wears a big grin a lot. *shrug* Personally that wouldn't play well with me, since I feel like we moved past that Silver/Bronze Age version a long time ago in the comics.
It was probably always going to be harder to suit everyone with the DC characters, but it's fair to say that the WB folks definitely rolled the dice with some of their choices. I have no issues with their handling of Superman to date, but if the Injustice-type scenario that Bruce's vision and Flash seem to be warning us about sees any real fruition in future films...I think that would be a big misstep. I feel like the end of BvS moved us past Superman as a controversial figure or villain, and they should probably tread lightly there going forward in the DCEU.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 16:23:43
Subject: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice discussion (SPOILERS!)
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Huge Hierodule
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H.B.M.C. wrote:I'm less and less enamoured by the fact that Batman was killing people left right and centre.
Snyder, it's time to go. Let someone else handle Justice League.
This was my friends and I's thought. Bad Future Batman killing people? Okay, shows how bad things are. Batman deciding that Superman is dangerous enough that he needs to be taken down permanently? Okay, shows how serious a threat he thinks Supes is. Batman murderizing a bunch of nameless henchmen? Why, other than trying to remain the darker hero in a universe where Superman is snapping necks?
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Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?
A: A Maniraptor |
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