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A Frontier World is likely to have a single Sister standing vigil at some remote shrine where, during the Great Crusade, the Emperor came in for a pit-stop or some long-forgotten (to all but her) Saint stepped on a sharp rock.

A Frontier World is definitely likely to have a PDF. It might be a las-lock wielding rabble of mountain men, cowgirls and gold-panners, but a PDF it will have.

A Feral World will also have a Planetary Governor... who resides in a space station in orbit and never, ever sets foot on the planet beneath him, except to collect whatever tithe the Imperium demands of him (probably beasts and tribal warriors for the Guard). He doesn't need Arbites, his station will have a complement of Naval Security and/or his personal House-Guard (by whatever name it goes by) to defend him and his.

Arbites fit better into a campaign set, rather than a general-use Codex. Arbites don't deploy, they're not an army that is used to conquer new territory or bring non-Imperial human worlds into compliance, not until the Astartes/IG have pacified the planet sufficiently to roll in the forces of the Administratum. Yes, you'd see them defending a Hive World if Tyranids or Necrons or whatever attacked but, again, that's a campaign setting, likely to include all kinds of variant rules, or a game more like Necromunda.

What the Sisters Codex needs, as mentioned previously, is both an increase in the variety of units (in both load-out and battlefield-role), rules that bring them in-line with other Imperial forces (something akin to Orders, Formations, Chapter Tactics or some mixture of the above), Faith Powers to be more than one-trick ponies and, perhaps most importantly, not be reliant on Priests to be effective. The Sisters, in fact, should be the ones showing the Priests how Faith is done.

Given the Orders Pronatus, and the wealth of the Ecclesiarchy, Sisters need access to a (limited?) number of "archaeotech" weapons. Maybe this is an option of Grav-guns, maybe no more than 1 per 10 Sisters in a BSS. Relic Power Armor that can be given to a single Character that grants a 3++ or a 3+ rerollable, stuff like that.

Maybe this is represented by certain Army-centerpiece Relics that grant either Army-wide or, at least, large-bubble benefits/buffs/etc. Such as, say, a shard of a Saint's armor that inflicts 1 automatic Wound (no Save) against any Daemon that gets within 12" of it, or grants a +2 on DtW tests by units within that bubble.

Sisters need units to provide options in basic slots, either as variant builds of the BSS or new units entirely. BSS that excel in hand-to-hand (fluffwise, the Sisters practice a devastating form of martial arts... their kung fu is better than yours.) combat, and so carry power weapons, Stormshields, etc. with the option for CC-focused Special Weapons. They need units that focus on long-range combat. While I like the fan-art of the Sister with the sniper rifle-flamer, how about a unit (1-5 Sisters) that either has long-range weapons with the Sniper rule or, if you want to get silly, has 48" range (single shot) but enemy models hit have a small-blast template placed on them which then delivers an additional S4 hit on all models under the template as it explodes in fire?

Mainly, I think Faith needs to be more than a one-shot trick, and needs to be directly keyed to the unit that's casting it. Again, further customization/individualization of units and the overall Army. Maybe you like to run a lot of Repentia, Arcos, and PEngines, so you want all your Faith powers to grant stuff like Fleet, Rage, Preferred Enemy: Heretics and/or Xenos, or a 3++ against Overwatch, and so forth.

[

 Grimmor wrote:
On the Cherubim, I was telling a buddy about them and he recommended a name change to Nephilim, their fluff would be that they are the children of traitors who are trying to redeem their own souls, so they get a Shield and a Power weapon and are sent to go stab the enemies of the Imperium, like Forlorn Hope.

Personally i think this sounds awesome.

That's not a bad idea, the deeds of the daughter striving to scrub out the sins of the father. But doesn't that fill a similar death-seeking role to Repentia then?

 Grimmor wrote:


It is similar, but Repentia are redeeming their own sins, while the Nephilim are trying to redeem their families sins. I think one has a lot more work to do lol

I'm not against the idea by any means, but how do we justify giving the distrusted descendants of traitors such good gear like storm shields and powerswords? Repentia are stripped of even their power armour.

 Humble Guardsman wrote:
But I don't see stretching further than that.

I get what you mean but I don't see why it's a problem. I mean, DE bands get together just to raid for slaves. Not every part of every faction needs to be engaged in IG-scale total warfare to have a place in 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
He doesn't need Arbites

Immaterial. The Arbites are not their to serve him. They are there to make sure he obeys the wider laws of the Imperium.

The Repentia strip themselves of their armour to atone of their sins iirc, not the Order they belong to.

And who's to say they are distrusted? To be a SoB they would had to have been brought up for most their lives by the Schola Progenium and so would have been taught to love the Emperor and brought fully into the faith, etc. When they're older or whatever they're told of their family's sins and they decide to atone for them.

That said, it'd be pretty hard to explain how they became an orphan in order to be raised by the Schola and yet not be killed like their parents on suspicion of corruption...

for the fraternis militia i see the militia as representing two separate groups, flash militia and levy militia

flash militia is composed of a wide variety of sources from huntsmen, PDF, gangers and random civilians. the militia is formed pretty much on the spot using whatever equipment they have handy and the only thing keeping them together is faith
levy militia are drawn from shrine worlds and are composed of a civilian militia which pass their equipment from father to son and spend at least a couple of hours every week to training, both in and out of formation. the levy militia acts on planet as a PDF force and are partly responsible for maintaining order and follow the decrees of the Lectio Divinitatus to the letter when dealing with criminals and heretics. when a crusade is called they follow the sisters and act similar to the guardians of the craft world do, manning any and all artillery as well as guarding less important objectives and the rear line to free up more sisters for the front. Any of the levy militia that shows promise would probably be invited into one of the crusader warrior lodges.

to represent this split I recommend the base stats to be in line with heretics with possible upgrades like flack vests and +1 ballistic skill.

regarding the nephilim I personally believe that any and all sisters who which to repent for their parents sins would probably either be placed in the repentia squads or maintain their status in the sisters line squad and attempt to martyr themselves there. To be honest, if you want a unit with storm shields and power weapons you can already grab a battle conclave for some crusaders.

 Manchu wrote:

 Spacewolfoddballz wrote:
Honestly why even bother with sisters of battle Space Wolves?

Just more food for the Hivemind, right? Who needs Viking Coke anyway?

I agree, especially after the Space Wolf flier and Logan Grimnar models on Santa Sleighs

I do think it would be more like Viking Meade

Well i see the Nephilim as just being armed with Power Weapons (im leaning towards Lance) and Storm Shields, who needs armor when you have a 3++ save?

I'm still not really seeing a good argument for stuffing Arbites within the Sisters of Battle codex. Maybe within a greater "Odds and Ends" codex for the Imperium-- like the Inquisition codex-- but they really don't 'fit the Sisters of Battle.

 Melissia wrote:
they really don't 'fit the Sisters of Battle

I can understand why you feel that way, it seems like you would prefer the SoB themselves to be "filled out" including with new units. By contrast, I see SoB as pretty low key: Sisters in Armour (including some with jump packs and some with heavy flamers) and Sisters without Armour (Repentia and non-Militants). That's just my ideal, however. I think to get a SoB book and new plastic minis, we are looking at something closer to the GK treatment.

As much as I love Sisters -- and they are indeed my favorite part of 40k -- I think one of the biggest obstacles to establishing a clear brand identity for them is the rigidly-held belief that they absolutely most have their "own book." And of course this impulse is totally understandable from the viewpoint of their fans, who see it as the only way that they will finally get the attention they deserve in terms of getting (1) a real update, (2) some respect in the fluff, and (3) some freaking plastic models already! The trouble is, and I think this is where JohnHwangDD was on the right track somewhat, this inevitably puts their brand ID on a collision course with Space Marines. And they cannot outcompete SM. SM are the bread and butter not only of 40k but of GW generally.

Additionally, and in a sense even more fundamentally, the defining characteristics of SoB just do not shine in an all-Sisters dex. I don't think anyone can fully appreciate their brand unless you situate it in the context of the classically iconic gothic-sci-fi-horror imagery of what life in like in M41-42. That means, Sisters need to appear standing out against the cruel and colourful panoply of Imperial society: this is NOT just a matter of the Ecclesiarchy but of course there is no aspect of Imperial society (apart from the rarefied circles of the Adeptus Mechanicus and Adpetus Astartes) free from hysteria of Imperial religion. I think for us, this is difficult to imagine because we are so used to compartmentalizing religion away from our public lives. But this is not possible in the Imperium. Faith is the only medium in which the Imperium is possible; sort of like how medieval Europeans talked of Christendom -- a place, a time, a culture, a cosmic destiny oriented toward Christ.

This kind of world. inherently oriented to the God Emperor, is the world that Codex: SM and Codex: IG hint at. But there ought to be a book where this is the main story and of course Sisters would be the stars. They are the humans most genuinely in harmony with the beating heart of Imperial culture.

I'm afraid I have to agree with Mellisien here. there is simply no need to throw in arbitres or PDF forces into the sisters of battle codex as they are both more secular and much more variable then the eccliessiarchy. if you want to have a PDF force then either use guardsmen or use the forgeworld imperial cult and militia list.

I view the sisters of battle as more of a fanatical and better funded storm trooper regiment rather then as poor man's space marines, as such i believe that keeping the majority of the codex as range units instead of moving the focus over to more assualt units like sisters with shields and power weapons is a better idea.
for newly introduced vehicles i'd probably add a heavy support option of a rhino with a flame storm cannon put on the front vindicator style with perhaps the ability to replace the cannon with a manga-melta.

In a game increasingly becoming Epic 28mm, I cannot see how you could possibly fit in Arbites. Back in Rogue Trader? Sure! Not today, not against Wraithknights/Imperial Knights/etc.

As allies Arbites could fit in. The last vestiges of the former Imperial authority that once ruled the planet fighting a desperate battle along side off world reinforcements to reconquer their world.

What would I do to update sisters for 7th edition. Stop making them? pass the savings on to other armies?

 Manchu wrote:
Not every part of every faction needs to be engaged in IG-scale total warfare to have a place in 40k.

A codex with or revolving around Adeptus Arbites needs to be competitive, otherwise what is the point of them other than a nod to the greater fluff? How can we justify Arbites having the capability to take down monstrous creatures, heavy vehicles, flyers or the like? Their usual foes of rioting mobs, criminals and even the most successful of gangers don't have access to that kind gear. A corrupt official could maybe have that kind of pull, but by that point you're dealing with full-scale planetary rebellion and that's not so standard a problem as to fall under the standard protocol of the Arbites.

The Arbites are quite often referenced in Codexes as some of the last surviving defenders during rebellions despite often being targeted early - they are well armed, trained and uncompromisingly loyal and would (as long ago) be cool to have a short mini-dex / data slate for them.

Although a full Imperial Agents codex would be even more preferable - with a proper Inquisition list and options, the many and varied oddities mentioned in the fluff that serve various different imperial institutions, etc..............

The Arbites usually have a stupidly hard fortress base with heavy defensive and specialist armament plus well protected specialist vehicles - what they don't have is numbers of troops. That's what the Guard/PDF is for...............

Now not sure another Imperial Ally is needed before Xenos/ Chaos allies tbc.

A codex with or revolving around Adeptus Arbites needs to be competitive, otherwise what is the point of them other than a nod to the greater fluff? How can we justify Arbites having the capability to take down monstrous creatures, heavy vehicles, flyers or the like?

How do we justify "slightly different coloured marines" apart from well they are their a bit different in the fluff and we made a whole load of new "snowflake" units to make them a bit different int the game.

Codexes are no longer considered stand alone - it would be fluffy and likely effective to have an army consisting of Arbites, the last loyal guardsmen on the planet, a loyal Knight or two, some Astartes who have dropped in, the Faithful and defiant Sororitas and the independent but still anti chaos Mechanicus forces - given that list - you can cope with anything.

In my opinion its better to have limited codexes that fit the fluff than have codexes that absolutely have to have "special units" like flying wolf Sledges, Blood Dreadnoughts with blood talons and blood missiles and the like.

saithor wrote:I'll make some suggestions, but as a non-SoB player who's curious on the subject I want to ask, what are the current weak points with the SoB?

Humble Guardsman wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Not every part of every faction needs to be engaged in IG-scale total warfare to have a place in 40k.

A codex with or revolving around Adeptus Arbites needs to be competitive, otherwise what is the point of them other than a nod to the greater fluff? How can we justify Arbites having the capability to take down monstrous creatures, heavy vehicles, flyers or the like? Their usual foes of rioting mobs, criminals and even the most successful of gangers don't have access to that kind gear. A corrupt official could maybe have that kind of pull, but by that point you're dealing with full-scale planetary rebellion and that's not so standard a problem as to fall under the standard protocol of the Arbites.

You're kidding, right?

Arbites have full carapace armour, storm shields, power mauls as standard, large-caliber stub pistols and manstopper shotguns (like Marine Scouts use) as their basic ranged weapons. They have Repressors, Razorbacks, Valkyries and Vultures... they have mortars, heavy stubbers, flamers and meltaguns in their armouries. The Arbites aren't just equipped to take down gangsters and rioting mobs. The Arbites are equipped to overthrow the planetary government and PDF if the governor turns to Chaos. They're equipped to purge full-blown Chaos cults with sorcerous support. They're trained to purge Genestealer Cults.

Arbites aren't just your uniformed police force... they're SWAT, taken to its logical extreme and answering to the federal government, ready to step in if a state governor decides to stage an armed rebellion.

If the codex become the Ecclesarchy (can't spell that) then I think Arbites could be fit in. There is old fluff of them often being grabbed up to support local anti-heratic operation.

Make then elites, let them infiltrate (undercover/survalience). Give them bolt guns with option to swap to GL or Sniper rifles. Could also let them take riot shield and mauls (save become 3+ and +1 attacks, maybe if they hit they lower enemy I, not wound, just hit)

 Furyou Miko wrote:


Arbites have full carapace armour, storm shields, power mauls as standard, large-caliber stub pistols and manstopper shotguns (like Marine Scouts use) as their basic ranged weapons.

Standard infantry fare, no one ever said Arbites aren't good at what they do. But the fact that they are well-equipped for door-to-door encounters hardly warrants a standalone codex.

Valkyries and Vultures...

Since when? And even so, that's just Guardsman with a different paint scheme

they have mortars, heavy stubbers, flamers and meltaguns in their armouries. The Arbites aren't just equipped to take down gangsters and rioting mobs. The Arbites are equipped to overthrow the planetary government and PDF if the governor turns to Chaos. They're equipped to purge full-blown Chaos cults with sorcerous support. They're trained to purge Genestealer Cults.

They are not trained or equipped with the goal or the means of repelling alien invasions, taking on entire armies counteracting anything warp related. I don't think the Arbites even have access to psykers other than relaying messages.

Arbites aren't just your uniformed police force...

And who said they were? Arbites are a way above any given planet's standard police force.

they're SWAT, taken to its logical extreme and answering to the federal government, ready to step in if a state governor decides to stage an armed rebellion.

All very impressive by real world standards to be sure, but in the 40k universe it's like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Name one thing an Arbite codex would bring that couldn't be easily represented by another codex? Rules-wise they'd essentially be Veterans with Carapace and Combat Shotguns, no?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

In my opinion its better to have limited codexes that fit the fluff than have codexes that absolutely have to have "special units" like flying wolf Sledges, Blood Dreadnoughts with blood talons and blood missiles and the like.

There's a difference between the Arbites needing a super-special snowflake to bring to the table and the Arbites needing to bring the basic requirements for an even marginally competitive list.

Like I said, I think Arbites need to be added to the Inquisition minidex.

 Melissia wrote:
Like I said, I think Arbites need to be added to the Inquisition minidex.[/quote

I agree, i would also like that Minidex in Hardback form as i hate GWs E-books, though they have gotten better since 6th.]

The misunderstanding of Arbites evinced ITT is truly woeful. Their task is to enforce the unity of the Imperium. To this end, they are equipped to take on threats ranging from powerful criminal syndicates to rebellious planetary governors. They connect a world to the wider Imperium and have the authority and capacity to do this as a matter of force as necessary. In this sense, they are the natural allies of Sisters, who enforce the religious unity of the Imperium.

I don't mind Arbites being in the game tbh, I just don't 'want them in the Sisters of Battle codex. I'd rather the sisters dex focus on sisters, or focus on Sisters with a side order of Ecclesiarchy. I don't play freakshow armies that look mish-mashed together like they were thrown from a hundred different sources in to one big mixing pot.

 Manchu wrote:
You read my point correctly, dracpanzer.

As for the unit you describe -- I would absolutely want Adeptus Arbites in the book.

I was actually suggesting a squad of sisters with shields and mauls, giving them a 3+/4++ save. Arbites are fine in a different dex. As easy as allies are now in 40k there is no reason any army can't have its own exclusive dex.

Might be interesting to give the mauls some kind of holy promethium sprinkler effect, hammer of wrath attack when charged or when charging to represent the ability to unleash small bursts of flame.

Still kind of intrigued by an infiltrating shrine/fortification. It would be unique.

Am I late to the party? I've actually implemented a lot of these ideas into my Fan Codex already.

Link: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/609583.page#7102148

I just added Sisters Famulous which haven't had rules since the chapter approved.

Id say make the new SoB codex more of a Ecclisiarchy codex. There'd be several non sisters units & characters. The sisters would certainly make up the majority of the codex.

Ordo Hereticus would have a prescence. Inquistors would be either an elite or HQ with retinues. Theyd also be the sect within the codex that had the Sisters of Silence.

Stormtroopers would be there as either the bodyguard of inquisition or Ecclisiarchy lords like bishops or cardinals etc.

Ranking clergymen of the Ecclisiarchy would be HQ choices. I see them as Ethereal like commanders, also helping with the faith point system.

Frateris militia would be there too. Ive always liked the idea of rabid citizens fighting for the homes. They'd basically be like cultists for the army. I've also always liked the idea of models of citizens for making dioramas.

The Sisters themselves would mostly remain the same. I think they need plastic kits of course. As for vehicles id say continue with Rhino chasis kits, but also some kinda super heavy transport like a Malchador. A giant mobile shrine, the ecclisiarchy's more primitive version of a land raider. Different variants of it would exist naturaly.

I know they moved away from this approach with Grey Knights, but id like to see a more well rounded treatment of the religion of the IoM. Its one of the most important aspects of imperal life. The medieval aesthetic of the Ecclisiarchy also really underscores the grim-dark feel of 40k. A robust treatment of the Ecclisiarchy, and therefore the SoBs would be a strong, binding addition to the world of men in the forty-first millenium.

 J3f wrote:
Am I late to the party? I've actually implemented a lot of these ideas into my Fan Codex already.

Link: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/609583.page#7102148

I just added Sisters Famulous which haven't had rules since the chapter approved.

Ive just flipped through it so far, but i like what i see.

 dracpanzer wrote:
I was actually suggesting a squad of sisters with shields and mauls, giving them a 3+/4++ save.

I know. But those Sisters you made up sound a lot like Arbites (minus the power armour of course).

 Manchu wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
I was actually suggesting a squad of sisters with shields and mauls, giving them a 3+/4++ save.

I know. But those Sisters you made up sound a lot like Arbites (minus the power armour of course).

Is an Arbites Riot Shield really to be considered on a similar level to a Storm Shield?

They have power fields - in the past, they've been depicted as giving a 4++. They've also been depicted as giving a 5++ and counting as a close-combat weapon, and, I think (although am less certain) as giving a 3++ against shooting and a 6++ against melee.