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Gwaihirsbrother wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Ah sorry the reaction I got was they thought it was alright to face but the thing is I think people actually found it annoying. I do feel for the Eldar players who have played their army for years and all of a sudden it's become stupidly good

Its so tricky trying to make the game work for everybody sometimes. Don't tone it down and one guy gets ticked. Tone it down and another gets annoyed and feels disrespected. If GW would do their job and make a decently balanced game, it would save everyone a ton of grief. That's really the biggest problem.

I agree I've had a dark angels player back in 6th ed call my chaos marines op yet I don't run helldrakes and no 1 more than one unit of obliterators

Martel732 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
@ Thenewblood - The Imperial Guard have never, on their own, been very powerful. The dreaded Leafblower list was in actual fact created by allying the Guard with the Inquisition and abusing several abilities gained from said Inquisition to boost the otherwise mediocre Imperial Guard units. It was also extremely points heavy - to avoid the worst of it all you had to do was play at sub 2.5K points and if you wanted it gone all together then all you had to do was avoid 2K and above games.

Leafblower worked without Inquisition. I saw it happen week in and week out.

I thought Leafblower was the 5th ed IG list filled with vendettas and melta vets and all troops in chimeras.
Which got a boost in 6th thanks to the free flyer upgrade and was the most powerful anti-flyer unit in the game until their update.
Maybe I just have a bad memory, but IG were near the top for a long time from what I remember. They always had plenty of good options until the recent update.

I remember when Hydras were taken over Leman Russes. How the times change.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
@ Thenewblood - The Imperial Guard have never, on their own, been very powerful. The dreaded Leafblower list was in actual fact created by allying the Guard with the Inquisition and abusing several abilities gained from said Inquisition to boost the otherwise mediocre Imperial Guard units. It was also extremely points heavy - to avoid the worst of it all you had to do was play at sub 2.5K points and if you wanted it gone all together then all you had to do was avoid 2K and above games.

Leafblower worked without Inquisition. I saw it happen week in and week out.

I thought Leafblower was the 5th ed IG list filled with vendettas and melta vets and all troops in chimeras.
Which got a boost in 6th thanks to the free flyer upgrade and was the most powerful anti-flyer unit in the game until their update.
Maybe I just have a bad memory, but IG were near the top for a long time from what I remember. They always had plenty of good options until the recent update.

Yup, it sure was. There was a variation that used inquisition, but the IG were the shootiest of the shooty in 5th. Brutal to play against, just brutal. Don't forget the blast templates coming from lumbering behemoth tanks.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Besides, I would love for someone to tell me how, WITHOUT ALLIES, I, as an Imperial Guard player, am supposed to be able to 'adapt too' and 'take on' Eldar scatbike spam and Wraithbrigade.

I've only played against Eldar once and the guy ran some jetbike spam.

Two wyverns actually chewed up the bikes well enough that he retreated the remaining bikes back to his side of the board and as far away as possible from the wyverns.

Gwaihirsbrother wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Ah sorry the reaction I got was they thought it was alright to face but the thing is I think people actually found it annoying. I do feel for the Eldar players who have played their army for years and all of a sudden it's become stupidly good

Its so tricky trying to make the game work for everybody sometimes. Don't tone it down and one guy gets ticked. Tone it down and another gets annoyed and feels disrespected. If GW would do their job and make a decently balanced game, it would save everyone a ton of grief. That's really the biggest problem.

you my friend just hit the nail on the head

Gwaihirsbrother wrote:
Dman in some threads has been let's say unwise in his choice of words. Apparently this gives some posters here good cause for an endless streams of personal attacks even when he has toned down his approach. He's not been abusive in this thread that I've seen other than having the audacity to point out other lists that he faces in tournaments can be very powerful, perhaps necessitating his use of very powerful builds to counter. I don't see posts by Dman in this thread that justify the abuse and when the abuse comes in response to nothing, it perhaps says more about the anti Eldar guy than the Eldar guy.

its says that reputation is a thing to human beings... and that Dman has earned his

It's also said that due to grammatical errors, DBoy is in fact a boy, not a man. Nor has he played warhammer for the past 15 years. It's also hypothesized that he in fact netlists, but pretends they are natural lists of his own design

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
It's also said that due to grammatical errors, DBoy is in fact a boy, not a man. Nor has he played warhammer for the past 15 years. It's also hypothesized that he in fact netlists, but pretends they are natural lists of his own design

yeah guess you right. All my awards from the past years are just made up and not in my display case and I must be a boy, because you know I won a GT in 2008 so by your logic assuming a boy would be let's say 16 years old I would have been 9 years old when I won, that's amazing lol and for the record and any eldar player will say the same, you open the book and make a army and 9-10 times someone has made the same army, it happens when the book is so well written the units you want to take just jump out at you.

Dman137 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
it happens when the book is so well written the units you want to take just jump out at you.

Probably more of a sign of poorly written. A well written book I'd argue is one where nothing stands out because everything has a role and is well balanced with all the other options. When one or two things leap out of the book as clearly better than everything else, there is a problem.

Gwaihirsbrother wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
it happens when the book is so well written the units you want to take just jump out at you.

Probably more of a sign of poorly written. A well written book I'd argue is one where nothing stands out because everything has a role and is well balanced with all the other options. When one or two things leap out of the book as clearly better than everything else, there is a problem.

the whole book is amazing

 Lobukia wrote:

Gwaihirsbrother wrote:
Dman in some threads has been let's say unwise in his choice of words. Apparently this gives some posters here good cause for an endless streams of personal attacks even when he has toned down his approach. He's not been abusive in this thread that I've seen other than having the audacity to point out other lists that he faces in tournaments can be very powerful, perhaps necessitating his use of very powerful builds to counter. I don't see posts by Dman in this thread that justify the abuse and when the abuse comes in response to nothing, it perhaps says more about the anti Eldar guy than the Eldar guy.

its says that reputation is a thing to human beings... and that Dman has earned his

And has added to the wrong parts of it in this thread since my above post, though he didn't initiate the elevation of hostile rhetoric.

Dman, don't take the bait. It undermines your legitimate complaints.

Dman137 wrote:

Gwaihirsbrother wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
it happens when the book is so well written the units you want to take just jump out at you.

Probably more of a sign of poorly written. A well written book I'd argue is one where nothing stands out because everything has a role and is well balanced with all the other options. When one or two things leap out of the book as clearly better than everything else, there is a problem.

the whole book is amazing

But I thought Eldar weren't amazing, or am I reading your hypocrisy wrong?

Dman137 wrote:
the whole book is amazing

Not if you want Wraithguard troops without a wraithknight to field classic Iyanden. Wraithost formation bugs me.

Most options may be good to great, but then there are a few standout units that rise above that. I don't think there are top tier lists being built around banshees and scorpions without scatbikes, but I could be wrong.

Don't you guys notice that every thread this guy posts garners more post/debate/neckbeard raeg than any on the 40k Subforum?

Social Engineering at it's Finest.

rowboatjellyfanxiii wrote:
Don't you guys notice that every thread this guy posts garners more post/debate/neckbeard raeg than any on the 40k Subforum?

Social Engineering at it's Finest.

So dman do we have any spoilers on the next episode in the troll thread series? Maybe a release date? I'd hate to miss it!

 niv-mizzet wrote:
So dman do we have any spoilers on the next episode in the troll thread series? Maybe a release date? I'd hate to miss it!

I'm waiting for the one where he claims that the Wraithknight is underperforming and appropriately costed!

 niv-mizzet wrote:
So dman do we have any spoilers on the next episode in the troll thread series? Maybe a release date? I'd hate to miss it!

tune in tomorrow lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:
So dman do we have any spoilers on the next episode in the troll thread series? Maybe a release date? I'd hate to miss it!

I'm waiting for the one where he claims that the Wraithknight is underperforming and appropriately costed!

WK while cheap in points for what they can do, are actually really easy to kill. They should only be taken in a competitive environment but any competitive players can kill one in a turn or two

CAN I PRE ORDER PRETTY PLEASEEEEEE
jk this is bs anyway, fk this thread

rowboatjellyfanxiii wrote:
CAN I PRE ORDER PRETTY PLEASEEEEEE
jk this is bs anyway, fk this thread

you mad bro.?

This thread needs to be locked before it becomes more toxic.

It needs to be locked so I can watch next week's episode, on the relatively harmless and well-costed Wraithknight!

I don't know about you, but I'm excited

Dman137 wrote:

Gwaihirsbrother wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Ah sorry the reaction I got was they thought it was alright to face but the thing is I think people actually found it annoying. I do feel for the Eldar players who have played their army for years and all of a sudden it's become stupidly good

Its so tricky trying to make the game work for everybody sometimes. Don't tone it down and one guy gets ticked. Tone it down and another gets annoyed and feels disrespected. If GW would do their job and make a decently balanced game, it would save everyone a ton of grief. That's really the biggest problem.

you my friend just hit the nail on the head

Or tick everyone off.....

WK while cheap in points for what they can do, are actually really easy to kill. They should only be taken in a competitive environment but any competitive players can kill one in a turn or two

So explain to me so I can L2P how I can kill a WK by turn 3 with my Ork list. We don't really have deep strikers, we don't have any grav or anti MC/GC weapons. I mean you can say I should just hose it down with my lootas but even then thats probably going to take the whole game. 15 Lootas average 30 shots a turn 10 hits and wounding on 5s means 2-3 wounds, then you get your armor save and your FNP so maybe 1 wound a turn if I am lucky.

I could assault it, but Im going to lose, and even my PK Nobz are S9 on the charge meaning they are wounding the WK on a 3 (if they don't get the charge then its 4). So after the 1st turn of combat where my boyz can't even scratch the damned WK and if I roll spectacularly my Nob can really only inflict 3-4 wounds (All hits, all wounds, no saves made, no FNP made). I then get stomped, lose a ton of my boyz, fail my leadership, get caught, do a MOb rule test and lose another D6 boyz.

So what is your suggestion for an Ork player to reliably kill the WraithKnight by turn 3?

 Ghazkuul wrote:
So what is your suggestion for an Ork player to reliably kill the WraithKnight by turn 3?

Counts as Eldar of course, don't be such a goob!

Edit: I might as well attempt a Dboy impression here: lol you're need to get good and l2p why did you chooce such a bad army noone ever wins with orks lol you need to be more comtepetive lol

 Ghazkuul wrote:

So what is your suggestion for an Ork player to reliably kill the WraithKnight by turn 3?

In the past there was the Foot of Gork (or Mork). Imitate that with your own shoe.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
So what is your suggestion for an Ork player to reliably kill the WraithKnight by turn 3?

Counts as Eldar of course, don't be such a goob!

Edit: I might as well attempt a Dboy impression here: lol you're need to get good and l2p why did you chooce such a bad army noone ever wins with orks lol you need to be more comtepetive lol

Ignore it and try to win on objectives?
Tie it up with cheap suicide units in CC?

zerosignal wrote:

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
So what is your suggestion for an Ork player to reliably kill the WraithKnight by turn 3?

Counts as Eldar of course, don't be such a goob!

Edit: I might as well attempt a Dboy impression here: lol you're need to get good and l2p why did you chooce such a bad army noone ever wins with orks lol you need to be more comtepetive lol

Ignore it and try to win on objectives?
Tie it up with cheap suicide units in CC?

so to reliably kill a wraithknight in 2 turns i should ignore it and hope it dies of old age or boredom?

And the only cheap units the Orks have are Boyz, (Gretchen won't do anything besides tie it up for 1 turn and then all die.) And even if a 30 man boyz unit ties up the wraith knight it will stomp them to death in 1-2 turns at most.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
So what is your suggestion for an Ork player to reliably kill the WraithKnight by turn 3?

Well not Lootas, they're AP4!

23x Tankbustas = 299pts, 2.55W in shooting
10x Deffkoptas = 300pts, 1.87W in shooting
21x Lootas = 294pts, 1.04W in shooting

Like you said PK Nobz do good damage, but you need to soften it up with some S8 AP3 first so you don't lose ~300pts to stomp.