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 Kilkrazy wrote:

If BoW is carrying promotional videos without clearly stating which they are, they are breaking the law. There is a big hoo-haa about this in relation to vloggers some months ago. I can't believe BoW would be so unprofessional.

Whose law... Northern Ireland, UK, Republic of Ireland, Europe?

Who gets to decide whether something is obviously promotional or not? It certainly isn't me. It's highly probable I'm just an unobservant moron. It's best to watch a video or two (I recommend the various ones relating to Mantic releases) and make your own decision.

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

Oh and before you ask me why the models are almost armourless, well, they are protected by 2 factors :1st one is pure awesomeness and 2nd, more serious, a force field... after all it's a sci-fi so why we need heavy armour on a miniature if we can have a force field and enjoy a bit of beautiful female body ;/

That would make sense if they weren't wearing heavy armour on their legs and arms. As is, nope, sorry, that's a nonsense excuse for having boobs out just for the sake of having boobs out.

If they were styled in a way that the lack of armour made sense, they would be fine. Just leaving chest and butt armour off looks ridiculous.

Some really good ideas and sculpts ruined by slapping a load of tits and arse on them.
Mental

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
It's to bad WZR isn't doing well, I bought a ton of models in the kick starter but no one has realy touched the game. I only had one friend consider getting into it, but decided not to after watching the Beasts of War review of it. He felt the vheclies were to fragile were his words.

Hi there, thanks for your comment, as mentioned above, Warzone is doing well and it's growing, however we got two releases at the same day SC and WZR and SC is far better seller than WZR :(

Not to pile on, but it's probably best not to talk about sales figures when your shop uses live stocking. Your box set seems to have sold a mighty 5 boxes, so if it's selling "far better" than WRZ, and you think Warzone is doing well then you are far more easily pleased than I am

I don't see why KD is considered sexualized. I pledged for three whole items without a breast between them.

If these Space Rusade minis had full armor, even boob plate with bat nipples, they would have been much more tempting. Makes me want to go back and check up on Ragin Shiroz and see if they ever made it to retail with any of their decent minis.

Really a shame, in no small part because the 'evil' versions make great daemonettes/fallen sisters/whatever.

 agnosto wrote:
The sad thing to me is that the models are technically well done; I could certainly see myself buying them if they had complete armor.

That's actually my favorite thing about them; the sculpt quality looks good, executed well with nice paint jobs. Selling them with separate core armor pieces might please a wider audience.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I don't see why KD is considered sexualized. I pledged for three whole items without a breast between them.

If these Space Rusade minis had full armor, even boob plate with bat nipples, they would have been much more tempting. Makes me want to go back and check up on Ragin Shiroz and see if they ever made it to retail with any of their decent minis.

I regret not getting any KD stuff. I wouldn't say that they are totally non sexualized, but I like their sensibilities. Particularly how zaftig the ladies are...

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

I wont really try to defend it as I don't want to get into any arguments about it. so to put it simply, the game is PG16, the models we have designed are not for every customer ( we know that). As for sales, sadly, SC models are selling better than one of the best WZR release we had have in last 2 years.

Thank you for coming here, by the way.

Honestly, I really like the miniatures of SC - to me, they're not any less believable than Space Marines in gothic armors. They look pretty much detailed and someone saying it's "a bad sculpt" isn't, IMHO, really honest with himself. I wonder if there will be more expansions exploring other factions or if it will just be these two.

Like you said, games don't have to be made for everyone. Seems like a lot of people have troubles to even imagine something wasn't made for their taste. Guess that means that if it's not good for them, then it mustn't be good for everyone else.

I'm not surprised it sells well. Only people in denial wouldn't have seen that coming, anyway.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
It's sad that something like this can see the light of day and HiTech Miniatures couldn't get their gak together and put their game out.

Having never been able to play or own a copy of Space Crusade, I'd have been tempted if this had been a bit toned down.

You'd be better off trawling ebay. Even a copy sans models would work, considering the models we all own these days.

 catharsix wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I don't see why KD is considered sexualized. I pledged for three whole items without a breast between them.

If these Space Rusade minis had full armor, even boob plate with bat nipples, they would have been much more tempting. Makes me want to go back and check up on Ragin Shiroz and see if they ever made it to retail with any of their decent minis.

I regret not getting any KD stuff. I wouldn't say that they are totally non sexualized, but I like their sensibilities. Particularly how zaftig the ladies are...

Yeah, I showed my wife the white speaker that came free with the order and she was pretty happy that the body type was more...familiar. If you want one of the Kingsmen, let me know. Most of The KD minis coming to me will be more along the lines of creepy baby hands than enormous genitals.

 -DE- wrote:

OT: I can't say I get the vileness for this game paired with the fondness for KD. Infinity has had scantily clad fighting women for years, with exposed midriffs and provocative poses. Heck, one of the earliest, and incidentally best selling, miniatures is a furry in an "insert coin here" invitiational pose. KD pinups are egregious to the extreme, they're a square milimeter of clothing away from tits out-pussy wet hardcore porn shots, and even regular minis have plenty of exposed skin, with some literally bristling with humongous erect penises. Let's not even talk of suggested rape by animals in the setting. Those get a pass and are celebrated. But a game combining sexy girls with 40K suddenly elicits bouts of horror. Certainly the fact that it's Prodos has no bearing on the reception of the theme, nosiree. The hypocrisy that drips from some of these reactions is cloying.

I own perhaps a half-dozen Infinity models, and no KD:M models at all. Though relatively few Infinity models are actually cheesecake. Regardless, despite being gratuitous, both Infinity and KDM models are exquisitely sculpted, while these are by and large ...not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -DE- wrote:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
Well, WZR is doing OK I just point out that the SC is selling better

Unsurprising, really. People have been clamoring for female space marines and/or sisters of battle for years, and you've delivered. I suspect such people outnumber fans of WZR by a large margin.

No, they really haven't. These are a different thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Probably worth pointing out here - I own a gakload of Raging Heroes models, and I won't even begin to try to argue that many of them aren't sexualised. The main difference is that they're much more practical, less childishly gratuitous, and the sculpt quality is much, much higher.

I feel a great disturbance in the Warp; it is as if thousands of SJWs and their politically correct allies had a simultaneous brain aneurysm.

Won't preorder on the account of the publisher having a spotty record, but will buy once they hit retail (if ever). Just to make a point supporting companies whose products piss the right kind of people off.

I like me some 28mm cheese cake, in face I have entire armies devoted to it, but geeze.... I agree that raging heroes now appears to be the high ground when it comes to ridiculous female figures, which is hilarious.

The amount of back pain the terminators must experience...

That said, I kind of like the bikers, and one of the good side ones as a gladiator or wacked out chaos follower might find a home with me. Not likely to buy three though.

 Olgerth Istaarn wrote:
I feel a great disturbance in the Warp; it is as if thousands of SJWs and their politically correct allies had a simultaneous brain aneurysm.
Won't preorder on the account of the publisher having a spotty record, but will buy once they hit retail (if ever). Just to make a point supporting companies whose products piss the right kind of people off.

SJWs? How about people who just like well sculpted models that don't have moronic designs? Odd you're going to buy the models to spite faceless people on the internet that you'll never meet, for the sake of childish internet arguments. Then again, people say they'll do a lot of things that they never do.

 insaniak wrote:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

Oh and before you ask me why the models are almost armourless, well, they are protected by 2 factors :1st one is pure awesomeness and 2nd, more serious, a force field... after all it's a sci-fi so why we need heavy armour on a miniature if we can have a force field and enjoy a bit of beautiful female body ;/

That would make sense if they weren't wearing heavy armour on their legs and arms. As is, nope, sorry, that's a nonsense excuse for having boobs out just for the sake of having boobs out.

If they were styled in a way that the lack of armour made sense, they would be fine. Just leaving chest and butt armour off looks ridiculous.

You have no imagination insaniak, what if that's not armour but actually the shield generators which need to be placed at the extremities of the thing you are trying to protect? And maybe the shield generators reflect a lot of heat back at the user so they wear almost no clothes to keep cool?

Sure, it's just a nonsense excuse to have boobs. But half the point of Fantasy and Sci Fi is to have nonsense excuses for things, you can write some background that makes no sense in the real world and then use the "because magic" or "because advanced technology" excuse to make it happen.

Granted, I'm not a huge fan of these models.... but as stupid as I think they are they're copping more flak purely because boobs which I also find silly, there's a lot of other stupid concepts in wargaming (and sci-fi/fantasy worlds in general) that cop less flak and there's a lot of other models which may not fit everyone's tastes but instead of getting hounded for it, it just gets ignored.

But because boobs there has to be an in depth discussion of them instead of any other silly wargaming concept which people would otherwise just ignore.

I think the issue is because they have bad design and bad sculpting, not because boobs.

Witness:





I own all of these (and more). I would not buy these Prodos models in a pink fit.

I don't necessarily agree that sculpt quality is bad. The Artemis model, among others, looks well done.

 Azazelx wrote:
I think the issue is because they have bad design and bad sculpting, not because boobs.

Well apart from the fact "bad design/sculpting" is subjective, do you really expect any system with bad design and bad sculpting to rack up 7 pages of discussion in 2 days? Normally if something has bad design and/or bad sculpting they'll just get ignored, or maybe a few posts of "I don't like it because of bad design and bad sculpting".

But because boobs we have 7 pages of that discussion.

Maybe I'm just being cynical in my thought that people are excessively focused on attacking things they don't like when those things contain boobs, perhaps it's just my imagination.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

Oh and before you ask me why the models are almost armourless, well, they are protected by 2 factors :1st one is pure awesomeness and 2nd, more serious, a force field... after all it's a sci-fi so why we need heavy armour on a miniature if we can have a force field and enjoy a bit of beautiful female body ;/

That would make sense if they weren't wearing heavy armour on their legs and arms. As is, nope, sorry, that's a nonsense excuse for having boobs out just for the sake of having boobs out.

If they were styled in a way that the lack of armour made sense, they would be fine. Just leaving chest and butt armour off looks ridiculous.

You have no imagination insaniak, what if that's not armour but actually the shield generators which need to be placed at the extremities of the thing you are trying to protect? And maybe the shield generators reflect a lot of heat back at the user so they wear almost no clothes to keep cool?

Sure, it's just a nonsense excuse to have boobs. But half the point of Fantasy and Sci Fi is to have nonsense excuses for things, you can write some background that makes no sense in the real world and then use the "because magic" or "because advanced technology" excuse to make it happen.

Granted, I'm not a huge fan of these models.... but as stupid as I think they are they're copping more flak purely because boobs which I also find silly, there's a lot of other stupid concepts in wargaming (and sci-fi/fantasy worlds in general) that cop less flak and there's a lot of other models which may not fit everyone's tastes but instead of getting hounded for it, it just gets ignored.

But because boobs there has to be an in depth discussion of them instead of any other silly wargaming concept which people would otherwise just ignore.

Can you give some examples?
Specifically examples that are poorly sculpted but also pandering to their perceived audience in the most cynical way imaginable, but that didn't get bashed by the community?
I realise that Western culture has been pedaling garbage under the guise of 'fighting political correctness' since the early 90s but we don't have to accept swill, especially when there are so many excellent options available to us now.

Like tits on your minis? There are dozens and dozens of better examples. This has nothing to do with prudishness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
I think the issue is because they have bad design and bad sculpting, not because boobs.

Well apart from the fact "bad design/sculpting" is subjective, do you really expect any system with bad design and bad sculpting to rack up 7 pages of discussion in 2 days? Normally if something has bad design and/or bad sculpting they'll just get ignored, or maybe a few posts of "I don't like it because of bad design and bad sculpting".

But because boobs we have 7 pages of that discussion.

Maybe I'm just being cynical in my thought that people are excessively focused on attacking things they don't like when those things contain boobs, perhaps it's just my imagination.

Umm, backlash equates to quality in your mind?
Defiance Games produced garbage for a few years, then stole people's money. Lots of pages about that company and its shoddy product.
The craft of sculpting is not subjective. These are poor examples of that craft.
The design equivalent of yelling "take their tops off!" at the sculptors is not subjective. By the standards of sexualised miniatures, and with no judgment placed on that genre, these are shoddy, frankly condescending examples.

 Azazelx wrote:
I think the issue is because they have bad design and bad sculpting, not because boobs.

This.

I have no problem at all with boobs on a miniature so long as the design makes sense. But these just look silly. They're the sort of thing I would expect from a teenager trying to launch his own 'edgy' miniatures line, not something that I would expect to see an established company even so much as consider approving for production.

 Azazelx wrote:
I think the issue is because they have bad design and bad sculpting, not because boobs.

Witness:

Spoiler:

I own all of these (and more). I would not buy these Prodos models in a pink fit.

I don't think the sculpts are objectively bad, it's more that the design are super uninspired. To be brutally honest, they are creatively devoid. The fact they have sold so well, more speaks to how appealing to the lowest common denominator will always make you money. That's Michael Bay movies in a nut shell.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Olgerth Istaarn wrote:
I feel a great disturbance in the Warp; it is as if thousands of SJWs and their politically correct allies had a simultaneous brain aneurysm.
Won't preorder on the account of the publisher having a spotty record, but will buy once they hit retail (if ever). Just to make a point supporting companies whose products piss the right kind of people off.

SJWs? How about people who just like well sculpted models that don't have moronic designs? Odd you're going to buy the models to spite faceless people on the internet that you'll never meet, for the sake of childish internet arguments. Then again, people say they'll do a lot of things that they never do.

Speaking of Michael Bay, I bet he liked the Transformer movies too.

 insaniak wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
I think the issue is because they have bad design and bad sculpting, not because boobs.

This.

I have no problem at all with boobs on a miniature so long as the design makes sense. But these just look silly. They're the sort of thing I would expect from a teenager trying to launch his own 'edgy' miniatures line, not something that I would expect to see an established company even so much as consider approving for production.

It's late here.....I just took medicine.....and I'm agreeing with Cats........

 Dentry wrote:
I don't necessarily agree that sculpt quality is bad. The Artemis model, among others, looks well done.

I'll give you that one on the sculpting. I'll retain my opinion that the design is bad (I don't like Warjacks, either) but yes, the sculpting on that one is objectively quite decent to good. The GUO and the one that has a joker face alt sculpt are also decently sculpted. I think the not-space marines with ball bearing boobs are the bigger offenders.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Maybe I'm just being cynical in my thought that people are excessively focused on attacking things they don't like when those things contain boobs, perhaps it's just my imagination.

Well, there's also the "Space Crusade" factor. I'm actually a big fan of boobs. I prefer them on humans, but hey, I don't mind them on models either when I think they're done well in a manner that appeals to me (so RH but not KD:M). But much if it is back and forth as they seem to be getting defended a bit more aggressively and irrationally than usual. Witness the guy above that said he'd happily buy them because he wants to piss "SJWs" off. Um.. okay? It's also an unusual and amusing topic.

 Theophony wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
bad design and bad sculpting

This.

It's late here.....I just took medicine.....and I'm agreeing with Cats........

This is a good thing. Cats are our masters.

 Azazelx wrote:


This is a good thing. Cats are our masters.

Dogs are much better than cats

 Compel wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

If BoW is carrying promotional videos without clearly stating which they are, they are breaking the law. There is a big hoo-haa about this in relation to vloggers some months ago. I can't believe BoW would be so unprofessional.

Whose law... Northern Ireland, UK, Republic of Ireland, Europe?

Who gets to decide whether something is obviously promotional or not? It certainly isn't me. It's highly probable I'm just an unobservant moron. It's best to watch a video or two (I recommend the various ones relating to Mantic releases) and make your own decision.

The decision of whether a piece is a promotion comes from whether you are commissioned to produce it and give the commissioning company editorial control. The various categories of advertorial, supported editorial and other forms of promotion are explained in the UK ad industry guidelines. I presume, but don't know, that other countries have similar laws.

 plastictrees wrote:
Specifically examples that are poorly sculpted but also pandering to their perceived audience in the most cynical way imaginable, but that didn't get bashed by the community?

I don't recall being that specific as "pandering to their perceived audience", aren't all miniatures "pandering to their perceived audience"? My contention was simply that there are TONS of badly sculpted miniatures out there that just simply never get discussed, and when they do infrequently come up in a thread they typically get ignored. It's hard to come up with a specific example because such threads typically pop up and then disappear in to obscurity

Umm, backlash equates to quality in your mind?

I don't know where you came up with that. Either I poorly communicated my thoughts or you have some really bad reading comprehension. I equated the 7 pages of responses in 2 days with controversial boobs, not quality

Anyway, this discussion is off-topic and I apologise so I'll stop talking about it.

 Olgerth Istaarn wrote:
I feel a great disturbance in the Warp; it is as if thousands of SJWs and their politically correct allies had a simultaneous brain aneurysm..

Yes, the problem with embarrassingly designed miniatures like this is everyone who dislikes them is a 'social justice warrior' or 'politically correct', these little green faces confuse me, which one is the rolly eyes smiley?

I sell 'nude' miniatures, the sight of a boob doesn't bother me, the fact that the 'only' selling point of these childish monstrosities is 'look , terribly sculpted boobs!' bothers me.

Our hobby is adults playing with toy soldiers, I mean it's an uphill battle to be any kind of cool, but Jesus, do we have to humour miniatures that are basically a really creepy 12yr old's wet dream?

Whether you like any miniature is a personal, aesthetic opinion. My main issue here is that 2 years later a boatload of KS backers are yet to see any of their AVP pledges an age after the
boxed game and other bits have gone to retail. Prodos, or whatever subsidiary name they are acting under, are not to be trusted with your hobby money however much you are a fan if the Space Rusade miniatures.

Can't see this having delays like AvP (and this is from someone that waited ages for that game) there won't be any lisencing shenanigans with this one looks like a straight release.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 RedSarge wrote:
So.. when people ask me what wargaming is. I'll show them these little figurines, right?

When people ask why you read books, do you start off with Fifty Shades of Gray as well?

Sadly, from what I have heard, that does seem to be a lot of people's only exposure to literature..