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Can't you just use your 40k marines and say it's a Scouring era force?

OgreChubbs wrote:


The rules say use the 30k models.

Oh yeah? Where exactly in any of the books does it say that? Are you not allowed to use the regular land speeders given in the rules? Because the regular Land Speeder doesn't have a 30k model, only the 'special' land speeder does. What about the Imperial Militias? You know the Army with out a model range.

I'd never turn down a game of 30k or give someone grievance, just because someone wanted to play with his 40k miniatures. Never. If people around here had taken up that attitude from the beginning, 30k would have been a stillbirth. When we started out with 30k, everyone of us had their 40k Marine chapter and started out with that, simply because it was just too much of a risk to be putting down ~800-1000€ for an unknown game system.

Even with BaC out there, it's still expensive. Rules, plus 2x Calth, plus a few vehicles and conversion bits will still set you back 500€+. That's still a huge investment for people who might see 30k as more of a secondary game system.

Sure, purists might bitch and look down, but then those people would probably look at a normal 40k army in regular 40k as well and nitpick the hell out of it.

Every time I've seen someone start a thread about how to get into 30k since November, they have been directed to buy BaC. Now people are complaining that others are getting into 30k by buying BaC?

I bought two boxes to form the basis of my Crimson fists army. I've mixed it up with fw upgrade kits, and citadel boxes and have the army I want. I've used it for 30k and 40k. Not had an issue so far.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:


The rules say use the 30k models.

Oh yeah? Where exactly in any of the books does it say that? Are you not allowed to use the regular land speeders given in the rules? Because the regular Land Speeder doesn't have a 30k model, only the 'special' land speeder does. What about the Imperial Militias? You know the Army with out a model range.

Actually, the Vraks renegade line is what FW seems to be using right now under the Imperial Militia name. But since those are 40k models, what are you going to do?

 Ashiraya wrote:
Can't you just use your 40k marines and say it's a Scouring era force?

Does that still count as 30k at that point?

And that's okay if you're running it in Scouring era.
If the TO says that it's between the Legions being refounded and before the distribution of MKVII prototypes (awfully specific), you wouldn't be able to use that argument. Of course, you can still decline, on grounds of being unable to play or the stringent restrictions.

Screenshots from Betrayal.

FW say its ok, evidently, they're just different pattern respirators fitted to the helmets.

Another one..

And a third

Already posted, but for completeness..

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:


The rules say use the 30k models.

Oh yeah? Where exactly in any of the books does it say that? Are you not allowed to use the regular land speeders given in the rules? Because the regular Land Speeder doesn't have a 30k model, only the 'special' land speeder does. What about the Imperial Militias? You know the Army with out a model range.

Actually, the Vraks renegade line is what FW seems to be using right now under the Imperial Militia name. But since those are 40k models, what are you going to do?

Not play the army I guess, if its "in the rules" that I can only play using 30k models.

Various images of FW art

I won't deny, that's some good evidence of MKVII helmets.

Not sure about the rest of the armour. According to this, I'd be fine with helmets, but I'd still want period accurate armour, if I was being pedantic.

hate to throw a spanner in the works, but those are the CSM helmets rather than 'traditional' MK VII yes? not trying to deny, just curious as to why they look so 'off"?

 Brennonjw wrote:
hate to throw a spanner in the works, but those are the CSM helmets rather than 'traditional' MK VII yes? not trying to deny, just curious as to why they look so 'off"?

They look off likely because of the artist drawings, most FW Mk VII looks like that. Also the CSM Helmets are just Mk VII Helmets, which I guess you could argue are just Mk V helmets since with out the extra armor they look the same.

thanks!

and just a brief summary of the thread so far, correct me if I'm wrong: Use whatever, though if you can try and go actual HH models (or have good fluff for your MK VII ). some people dislike Calth, but no one should actually judge to harshly for using Calth models. There are outliers/trolls Who say 30k only/resin only. Yes?

 Brennonjw wrote:
hate to throw a spanner in the works, but those are the CSM helmets rather than 'traditional' MK VII yes? not trying to deny, just curious as to why they look so 'off"?

They're images from Betrayal, so they're as worn by those Legions at and around Istvaan III.

Strictly speaking they're described as prototype respirator units, but I don't see how one could draw the distinction at tabletop level 30mm scale.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
hate to throw a spanner in the works, but those are the CSM helmets rather than 'traditional' MK VII yes? not trying to deny, just curious as to why they look so 'off"?

They're images from Betrayal, so they're as worn by those Legions at and around Istvaan III.

Strictly speaking they're described as prototype respirator units, but I don't see how one could draw the distinction at tabletop level 30mm scale.

I know that, I wasn't denying it, I was just saying the helmets look weird, and if they were made to look like "loyalist" MK VII helmets, or the CSM MK VII helmets.

I think it's just they're likely lacking the down turned corners of the "mouth" but, as VVT that's either just artistic license or an attempt to make them look ever so slightly different to represent the "prototype" idea.

 Brennonjw wrote:
thanks!

and just a brief summary of the thread so far, correct me if I'm wrong: Use whatever, though if you can try and go actual HH models (or have good fluff for your MK VII ). some people dislike Calth, but no one should actually judge to harshly for using Calth models. There are outliers/trolls Who say 30k only/resin only. Yes?

Noone can really say 30k only or resin only, because you couldn't take standard drop pods or land speeders. Those are coming from 40k unless you convert or scratch build, as far as I know And what about Daemons?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Can't you just use your 40k marines and say it's a Scouring era force?

Does that still count as 30k at that point?

Certainly, the dateline still reads M31, and they'd still be using the organisation and tactics of the Crusade list until they re-organised after the second founding. Space Marine 1st edition "Epic Battles in the Age of Heresy" was actually set during the Scouring but mostly referred to it as the Heresy.

 Brennonjw wrote:
hate to throw a spanner in the works, but those are the CSM helmets rather than 'traditional' MK VII yes? not trying to deny, just curious as to why they look so 'off"?

Neither, they're meant to be the MkV helmets with the Star Wars Storm Trooper style coverings over the front half of the MkIV/VII style cables. The artists proportions and choice of lighting are somewhat off, but actual design elements on the coverings are still the same. None of the Imperial or Chaos MkVII's have that style covering.

You posted a bunch of dudes in MKIV helmets.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AT/Legion-MkIV-Maximus-Armour-2016

It's the guy on the top right.

And you posted a dude wearing a MKV helmet for the world eaters. I will admit that they do look very close to the modren MKVII helmets.


The guy who puts a bunch of dark vengeance marines painted black on the table, I would not refuse to play. But I would more or less regaurd his army as a proxy army, and and would encourage them to build a "proper" 30k force in time.

Painting 40k tacticals in legion colours doesn't convey a 30k legion.

admittedly inappropriate

 Lockark wrote:
You posted a bunch of dudes in MKIV helmets.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AT/Legion-MkIV-Maximus-Armour-2016

It's the guy on the top right.

And you posted a dude wearing a MKV helmet for the world eaters. I will admit that they do look very close to the modren MKVII helmets.


The guy who puts a bunch of dark vengeance marines painted black on the table, I would not refuse to play. But I would more or less regaurd his army as a proxy army, and and would encourage them to build a "proper" 30k force in time.

Painting 40k tacticals in legion colours doesn't convey a 30k legion.

You really do seem like a stickler for what does and doesnt count as "proper" 30k
Aslong as it is in power armor and carrying the correct weapon, I really dont care.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

HandofMars wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

HandofMars wrote:
The Age of Darkness, far more so than 40K, is a game built around narrative and background.

Not really. Certain players like you have tried to declare that this is what the game is about and shun people who disagree from the community, but that doesn't mean the game itself favors your preferred way of playing.

I am not really concerned with your opinion, as I used to be a member of this forum years back under a now-forgotten user-name, and you've always been an argumentative cancer in any sub-community you decide to fester in. It's unfortunately you've chosen 30K as your latest nesting place, but thankfully I have an enormous population of like-minded individuals and never have to play you ever ever. So yes, Texas and the narrative events at Nova and Adepticon will continue to shun the 40K powergamer.

I like how you use the word "Shun" as if powergaming and competitive play are something to be regarded as lower than the Fluffly player master race.

First of all, I borrowed his word, and perhaps that was a too strong choice of word.

Second of all, yes, in the NARRATIVE events at the places I mentioned (here my choice of words was very specific), you will not find the obnoxious mentality he represents to be welcome.

You may have a brief 30K career asas people are more than willing to give a new player a chance, but don't expect too many rematches. You can argue about the nature of 40K however much you want, even after numerous statements from GW about their intent of a casual game, but with 30K in particular you will find that is the mindset of the vast majority (read so far 99%) of the 100+ AoD players I've encountered. If you can find some like-minded opponents who just want to cheese out 30K but not 40K for some reason, more power to you, but around my parts no one wants to play your Night Lord/Ultramarine with Raven Guard Apothecary Shattered Legion or wall of Rapiers or whatever.

HandofMars wrote:
I am not really concerned with your opinion, as I used to be a member of this forum years back under a now-forgotten user-name, and you've always been an argumentative cancer in any sub-community you decide to fester in. It's unfortunately you've chosen 30K as your latest nesting place, but thankfully I have an enormous population of like-minded individuals and never have to play you ever ever. So yes, Texas and the narrative events at Nova and Adepticon will continue to shun the 40K powergamer.

I love you too.

PS: post reported for rule #1 violation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

HandofMars wrote:
you will not find the obnoxious mentality he represents to be welcome.

IOW, "UR HAVING FUN THE WRONG WAY".

even after numerous statements from GW about their intent of a casual game

GW's statements on this are not credible at all because the rules they publish are terrible for casual gaming. It is very clear that when GW says "this is a casual game" what they really mean is "stop expecting the rules to function and just hand over your wallet".

but with 30K in particular you will find that is the mindset of the vast majority (read so far 99%) of the 100+ AoD players I've encountered.

Success in excluding people who enjoy different things about 30k doesn't mean that you're right. It just means that you've removed any dissenting opinions.

Okay. Have fun.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
You posted a bunch of dudes in MKIV helmets.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AT/Legion-MkIV-Maximus-Armour-2016

It's the guy on the top right.

And you posted a dude wearing a MKV helmet for the world eaters. I will admit that they do look very close to the modren MKVII helmets.


The guy who puts a bunch of dark vengeance marines painted black on the table, I would not refuse to play. But I would more or less regaurd his army as a proxy army, and and would encourage them to build a "proper" 30k force in time.

Painting 40k tacticals in legion colours doesn't convey a 30k legion.

You really do seem like a stickler for what does and doesnt count as "proper" 30k
Aslong as it is in power armor and carrying the correct weapon, I really dont care.

It's like playing someone with a Unpainted army. I'm not going to turn my nose up at them for not having it painted. But I would encourage them to get it painted.

Using 40k power armour in 30k makes the army look unfinished to me, like you haven't tried to put the proper effort into your army.

I don't shun the idea of using 40k bits in a 30k army, I even ecourage it. But care/thought needs to be used making sure that the parts you are using still fit the narrative and aesthetic of the 30k look. A part of that is not using recognizable MK 7&8 armour.

You can use MK7 armour as a base to convert MK5 armour, that's that's awesome and 100% awesome if you are going the route. Most of the parts in the CSM box are MKV, and can be easily "de-chaos'd" for this purpose. Egals can be shaved off, and studs and power cables added to loyalist armour to make MKV.


My general experience has been that most people who come into 30k with the attitude that "a space marine is a space marine, as long as the weapons are right", are Flavour of the week players who leave soon after they find out that the lists aren't as power game-y as they hoped they would be. They take their 40k marines and go back to using 40k army lists. The same people who use their Ultra's as blood angel rules, CSM as space wolves, ect.

I've never turned my nose up at these people when they want a game, but I would encourage them that if they actually liked the army to actually collect them. Even if the start is taking the models that actually transfer over properly and repaint them.

 Lockark wrote:
You posted a bunch of dudes in MKIV helmets.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AT/Legion-MkIV-Maximus-Armour-2016

It's the guy on the top right.

And you posted a dude wearing a MKV helmet for the world eaters. I will admit that they do look very close to the modren MKVII helmets.


The guy who puts a bunch of dark vengeance marines painted black on the table, I would not refuse to play. But I would more or less regaurd his army as a proxy army, and and would encourage them to build a "proper" 30k force in time.

Painting 40k tacticals in legion colours doesn't convey a 30k legion.

Those are decidedly not Mk IV helmets, even the one with the Mk VIIish helmet, if you'll look at the details which is something Im sure you do alot beings you focus into tear into a Mk VII helmet on a torso that is covered so much by a weapon you can hardly see the detail. You'll notice that the Resperator on the Mk IV helmet you refer to is much more recessed and even from a straight on point of view would half obscured by the armor lip. Those helmets posted bear more similarities with the Mk V, but, with out the extra armor or bonding studs.

Now yes, my argument relies alot on me looking REALLY close at a model to see the face. Sounds alot like the sort of thing someone nay saying people using Mk VII would do.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
You posted a bunch of dudes in MKIV helmets.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AT/Legion-MkIV-Maximus-Armour-2016

It's the guy on the top right.

And you posted a dude wearing a MKV helmet for the world eaters. I will admit that they do look very close to the modren MKVII helmets.


The guy who puts a bunch of dark vengeance marines painted black on the table, I would not refuse to play. But I would more or less regaurd his army as a proxy army, and and would encourage them to build a "proper" 30k force in time.

Painting 40k tacticals in legion colours doesn't convey a 30k legion.

Those are decidedly not Mk IV helmets, even the one with the Mk VIIish helmet, if you'll look at the details which is something Im sure you do alot beings you focus into tear into a Mk VII helmet on a torso that is covered so much by a weapon you can hardly see the detail. You'll notice that the Resperator on the Mk IV helmet you refer to is much more recessed and even from a straight on point of view would half obscured by the armor lip. Those helmets posted bear more similarities with the Mk V, but, with out the extra armor or bonding studs.

Now yes, my argument relies alot on me looking REALLY close at a model to see the face. Sounds alot like the sort of thing someone nay saying people using Mk VII would do.

Ok, 1st. how about like. %50 less sass, and like 75% less passive agressive jabs ok?

Now. On the MKIV helmets, The FW artwork has the helmets coming from the front on, so the detail of the extended snout isn't being conveyed well. Look at MKVII from the same angle and it's clear they are not MKVII helmets. MKVII is flater and wider. The cabling is thicker, and the grill is shaped different.


Even if the helmet was MKVII, their is no depictions of whole suits of MKVII.

Regardless of what the subtle details of a particular image show this just proves the point about how absurd the "no 40k marines in 30k" policy is. You're sitting here arguing about tiny and ambiguous details in a picture and can't even agree what type of power armor it shows. If the differences between 40k and 30k power armor are that subtle then I don't see how anyone can reasonably have such a strong objection to using the 40k version. Only a handful of dedicated marine fans would be able to tell the difference, and even fewer would be able to do it at normal tabletop distances.