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Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Jesus Christ the HQ's don't pay for their Terminator Armor. That is going to make justifying Typhus a lot harder.

Maybe, but you do need 3 units of termies to get it for free, which are really rough in terms of options.

"
I was writing, arguing that this is pretty decent. Especially with the new powers. The best would be to stick 3 min sized units on a piece of terrain and port them around. Geomancy also happens to then give them ignore cover (from behind los-blocking cover...gogo modelling for advantage -_-).
It was all good until I reminded myself that all they get is regular old bolters. You can't even use the formation bonus with any ranged weapons worth a damn.

After shooting once, their combi bolters are used up so you can't fire them twice. In order to use the autocannons you'd need to buy an extra 6 at least, but that increases the cost so much you're better off with regular autocannon havocs. Hatred is useless for shooting and they can't assault after deepstriking, so in order to benefit from the rules you're almost forced to port them with a piece of terrain and then shoot and charge.... with combi-bolters. Except they only get to shoot twice if you deep strike so that's out too.

I dunno, I might be missing something, but this seems like a trap formation.

 Rydria wrote:

 Runic wrote:
How would the Rhinos benefit from Shrouded against shooting when the DP+Possessed -formation only grants the bonuses at the start of the Fight sub-phase, lasting until the end of that turn. The Possessed of CS have a different wording on theirs (start of turn until next player turn) and directly contradict the Traitors Hate -formations wording. Ergo:

The Crimson slaughter book I have says they keep there buff until the start of the controlling players next turn, so you would keep shrouding in your opponents turn, then at the start of your turn you lose it, and then at the start of the fight sub phase you would regain shrouding and the 3+ invulnerable save, so the only thing you wouldn't benefit from is becoming beasts.

That really makes no sense since you will never benefit from being a beast if it isn't active during your own movement phase, shooting or charge phase.

Edit: Nope, seems you're right. You ROLL at the start of your turn, get the effect at the start of the fight sub-phase and it ends at the start of your next turn. For one second it looked like chaos got thrown a bone.

 Rydria wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Do Thousand Sons have the Veterans of the Long War special rule? Are they Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines or Noise Marines?

It says they can't take the veterans of the long war special rule aka purchasing it, they aren't taking it, since they have it built in as apart of there profile.

If they couldn't take Daemon princes at all why would they bother having the Daemonheart relic outright say can't be taken by a daemon prince ?

Do you have the old or current version of the CS supplement?

The newer one changed the wording completely to forbid taking units with VotLW if they aren't Noise Marines, Bezerkers or Plague Marines.

Combi-weapons would be used up if you switched out a barrel, but combi-bolters don't get used up. No?

They don't get used up, but they're only bolters. Seem spretty meh to me unless you have some Renegade imperial fists fantasy.

I don't even see the point of doing a new Kharn datasheet, if its not to modify it in any form...

Since you still need the CSM codex for the rest of the units and rules...

And still no new and unique unit/land raider, while fething Furries Marines gets Uber Wulfens...

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Do Thousand Sons have the Veterans of the Long War special rule? Are they Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines or Noise Marines?

It says they can't take the veterans of the long war special rule aka purchasing it, they aren't taking it, since they have it built in as apart of there profile.

If they couldn't take Daemon princes at all why would they bother having the Daemonheart relic outright say can't be taken by a daemon prince ?

Do you have the old or current version of the CS supplement?

The newer one changed the wording completely to forbid taking units with VotLW if they aren't Noise Marines, Bezerkers or Plague Marines.

The old one stated no unit can take VOTLW (except the cult troops)

The new one states no unit in a CS Detachment can HAVE the VOTLW rule.

So the slight different wording is what has people doubt the Daemon Prince.

Also note, the Daemonheart relic states cannot be taken by Daemon Prince.

And I guess they forgot about the Dark Apotheosis result that would give you VOTLW.

Roknar wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Jesus Christ the HQ's don't pay for their Terminator Armor. That is going to make justifying Typhus a lot harder.

Maybe, but you do need 3 units of termies to get it for free, which are really rough in terms of options.

"
I was writing, arguing that this is pretty decent. Especially with the new powers. The best would be to stick 3 min sized units on a piece of terrain and port them around. Geomancy also happens to then give them ignore cover (from behind los-blocking cover...gogo modelling for advantage -_-).
It was all good until I reminded myself that all they get is regular old bolters. You can't even use the formation bonus with any ranged weapons worth a damn.

After shooting once, their combi bolters are used up so you can't fire them twice. In order to use the autocannons you'd need to buy an extra 6 at least, but that increases the cost so much you're better off with regular autocannon havocs. Hatred is useless for shooting and they can't assault after deepstriking, so in order to benefit from the rules you're almost forced to port them with a piece of terrain and then shoot and charge.... with combi-bolters. Except they only get to shoot twice if you deep strike so that's out too.

I dunno, I might be missing something, but this seems like a trap formation.

I think you're under-estimating the flexibility the formation offers. It allows you to target Interceptors before they shoot your Terminators or other Deep Striking units (i.e. the Raptors in the formation that lets them assault from reserves), it essentially lets you run after shooting to get on an objective or spread out against incoming fire, it lets you do things like destroy a transport then shoot the unit inside (do this against something like a Wave Serpent with Fire Dragons inside, they don't resist twin-linked bolter fire that well) or destroy a big target (i.e. Riptide) and kill a lesser infantry unit (i.e. Pathfinders/Marker Drones) all in the same turn. Terminators are Terminators, even with just bare Power Weapons they are still stronger than your average unit in a melee so the Hatred buff is more of a nice added bonus. Termicide Terminators (i.e. small units with combi-weapons and power weapons) are relatively inexpensive, can do a lot of damage and get the benefit of being aided by a Chaos Lord with free Terminator armour (which is super good, he's basically a half price Terminator Captain who loses out on a 4++ but can pay for that or a 3++) who can also take a combi-weapon. The formation is hardly "a trap", if you use your brain you can put the buffs to good use. Say what you want about bolters, you can still ping off units that survive by hiding out of sight/range with them fairly easily. Especially if you slag a transport ferrying vulnerable infantry on the turn you drop. I'm not saying it's by any means a great formation but implying that it's a trap is tomfoolery.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
I don't even see the point of doing a new Kharn datasheet, if its not to modify it in any form...

Since you still need the CSM codex for the rest of the units and rules...

To show off the new model in the picture.

GW is getting better with models and releases, and (mostly) on pricing. But they need to work on the rules still. No update to Kharn is as bad as merely tacking on the new stats to fliers in DFtS and not trying to fix the problem planes.

Direction seems to be changing for the better, but still, supertankers are slow to move.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
I don't even see the point of doing a new Kharn datasheet, if its not to modify it in any form...

Since you still need the CSM codex for the rest of the units and rules...

To show off the new model in the picture.

GW is getting better with models and releases, and (mostly) on pricing. But they need to work on the rules still. No update to Kharn is as bad as merely tacking on the new stats to fliers in DFtS and not trying to fix the problem planes.

Direction seems to be changing for the better, but still, supertankers are slow to move.

People kee saying that Kharn needs to be better. No, he doesnt. He is already fantastic.
What needs to be better is the Chaos Space Marine melee delivery system. Fix that, you 'fix' Kharn.

Neronoxx wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
I don't even see the point of doing a new Kharn datasheet, if its not to modify it in any form...

Since you still need the CSM codex for the rest of the units and rules...

To show off the new model in the picture.

GW is getting better with models and releases, and (mostly) on pricing. But they need to work on the rules still. No update to Kharn is as bad as merely tacking on the new stats to fliers in DFtS and not trying to fix the problem planes.

Direction seems to be changing for the better, but still, supertankers are slow to move.

People kee saying that Kharn needs to be better. No, he doesnt. He is already fantastic.
What needs to be better is the Chaos Space Marine melee delivery system. Fix that, you 'fix' Kharn.

i dunno, i wouldn't mind something to help keep a T4 character alive past that 4++, considering he's supposed to be notoriously difficult to kill, and IH chapter master random has a 2+/3++ (possibly rerollable), jink, T5, EW, and a possible 2+ FNP.

but, yes, for the love of all that is evil, grav-proof delivery system is needed.

or, just get rid of grav. i'm cool with that too.

The formations would be good and rather good IF the CSM and terminators had the same weapon loadouts as the SM. And why in the love of Khorne would you have to make a disordered chargé with the raptors? Why not just a ordinary charge? I Realy dont get it. Check out the formations they created when they made a formation for RG. No scatter if within 9" of scouts, Charge after DS with up to 3 Vanguard units. If the formation is taken as a decurion you have all this godies R1. Thats insane!

I'm seeing a lot of battered wife syndrome going on here. Once you compare these to what SM get you realize these aren't really "good" - they're just "good... for Chaos".

The Heldrake formation will get some play in a Cabal list. Lowering leadership and then hitting with Shrieks is excellent on the Heldrake platform.

 gigasnail wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
I don't even see the point of doing a new Kharn datasheet, if its not to modify it in any form...

Since you still need the CSM codex for the rest of the units and rules...

To show off the new model in the picture.

GW is getting better with models and releases, and (mostly) on pricing. But they need to work on the rules still. No update to Kharn is as bad as merely tacking on the new stats to fliers in DFtS and not trying to fix the problem planes.

Direction seems to be changing for the better, but still, supertankers are slow to move.

People kee saying that Kharn needs to be better. No, he doesnt. He is already fantastic.
What needs to be better is the Chaos Space Marine melee delivery system. Fix that, you 'fix' Kharn.

i dunno, i wouldn't mind something to help keep a T4 character alive past that 4++, considering he's supposed to be notoriously difficult to kill, and IH chapter master random has a 2+/3++ (possibly rerollable), jink, T5, EW, and a possible 2+ FNP.

but, yes, for the love of all that is evil, grav-proof delivery system is needed.

or, just get rid of grav. i'm cool with that too.

That Chapter Master costs 265+ points though. What were you expecting? Kharn is 100 less points...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 gigasnail wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
I don't even see the point of doing a new Kharn datasheet, if its not to modify it in any form...

Since you still need the CSM codex for the rest of the units and rules...

To show off the new model in the picture.

GW is getting better with models and releases, and (mostly) on pricing. But they need to work on the rules still. No update to Kharn is as bad as merely tacking on the new stats to fliers in DFtS and not trying to fix the problem planes.

Direction seems to be changing for the better, but still, supertankers are slow to move.

People kee saying that Kharn needs to be better. No, he doesnt. He is already fantastic.
What needs to be better is the Chaos Space Marine melee delivery system. Fix that, you 'fix' Kharn.

i dunno, i wouldn't mind something to help keep a T4 character alive past that 4++, considering he's supposed to be notoriously difficult to kill, and IH chapter master random has a 2+/3++ (possibly rerollable), jink, T5, EW, and a possible 2+ FNP.

but, yes, for the love of all that is evil, grav-proof delivery system is needed.

or, just get rid of grav. i'm cool with that too.

That Chapter Master costs 265+ points though. What were you expecting? Kharn is 100 less points...

Wrong. An IH captain with a Chain of Gorgon, Cataphractii Terminator armor (for the rerollable invul), a chainfist and a combimelta is only 20 points more than Kharn.

 gigasnail wrote:

but, yes, for the love of all that is evil, grav-proof delivery system is needed.

If that's all you're looking for in a delivery system, check out Spawn.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 gigasnail wrote:

but, yes, for the love of all that is evil, grav-proof delivery system is needed.

If that's all you're looking for in a delivery system, check out Spawn.

You need one that can carry all of our 6" move infantry 12-18" a turn though. We already know Spawn are the answer to getting a juggerlord or nurgle fisty-claw biker into combat, it's the footsloggers that need help.

^this.

 gigasnail wrote:

i dunno, i wouldn't mind something to help keep a T4 character alive past that 4++, considering he's supposed to be notoriously difficult to kill, and IH chapter master random has a 2+/3++ (possibly rerollable), jink, T5, EW, and a possible 2+ FNP.

but, yes, for the love of all that is evil, grav-proof delivery system is needed.

or, just get rid of grav. i'm cool with that too.

Might be me but I would prefer get rid of the IH type of combos. Power level is too up high and night on unkillable with basic weapon guys aren't even fun.

That's why I also prefer 2nd ed. No matter who you are looking at you can kill it. Even humble lascannon is of a worry to guys like daemon princes, greater daemons etc. Basic marine characters only really reliable tool from getting pasted is not get shot in the first place...

You don't want to try charging across open field against squad with lascannon with lone chapter master in 2nd ed. It's walk in the park in 7th ed.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of battered wife syndrome going on here. Once you compare these to what SM get you realize these aren't really "good" - they're just "good... for Chaos".

Pretty much this. The underlying and fundamental flaws of the CSM codex , particularly with pricing, doesn't suddenly fix themselves by adding more rules. Our big formation gives us Hatred and +1LD... its nice they're for free... but loyalist units get more before they even take formations.

Natfka says....

Trying to discover more about this week's releases, we are looking at a lot of Blood Angels on the pre-order list. A new Blood Angels supplement called the Angels Blade tops the list. Here is the latest.


via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
Black Crusade: Angels Blade (Blood Angel Supplement)
Blood Angels: Death Company Strike Froce
Blood Angles: Archangels Orbital Intervention Force
Blood Angles: Chapter Ancients
Blood Angel Assault Squad
Blood Angel Stern Guard Veteran Squad
Blood Angel Company Command
The Beast Arises 10: Last Son of Dorn (Book)
The Red Path (Book)

Blood Angels!

Two weeks ago I bought and built a full Sternguard squad for my successors...

Interested to know what the chapter ancients could be.

 alanmckenzie wrote:
Interested to know what the chapter ancients could be.

Dreadnoughts. A box with 2-3 BA Dreads, or maybe 2 and a Venerable.

'Old' news ^^ But more stuff for Blood Angels is a good thing


Hastings posted another rumor on Disqus - amongst the 40k stuff there was a hint at something we hadnt heard about

- "new plague army" (quote)

https://disqus.com/by/75hastings69/?

Warhams-77 wrote:
'Old' news ^^ But more stuff for Blood Angels is a good thing


Hastings posted another rumor on Disqus - amongst the 40k stuff there was a hint at something we hadnt heard about

- "new plague army" (quote)

https://disqus.com/by/75hastings69/?

He edited his comment saying Skaven not "plague army".
EDIT: Nevermind looked at the wrong comment.

I guess its probably too early to be excited for Nurgle Daemonkin?

Did you miss this-

"Fezza213
My prediction, Guilliman returns and takes back the mantle of lord commander of the imperium. Sensing the impending doom the adeptus custodes become Guillimans personal body guard while leaving a token force to guard the emperor. New 40k army is released in the form of adeptus custodes with Guilliman as their leader (Ultramarines are sad but Guilliman uses them as the other space marines use the imperial guard, front line fodder)."


75hastings69 • 8 hours ago
Some of this would tie in with what I heard. I asked in a different thread what is better than marines...... answer new marines "

So Custodes as the "new marines" I could see it happening..Good to see Steve out about spreading rumours again!!

[sorry of the text I just copied and pasted what I could and apologies if this has been posted.]

I missed it, thanks Stu

 SicSemperTyrannis wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
'Old' news ^^ But more stuff for Blood Angels is a good thing


Hastings posted another rumor on Disqus - amongst the 40k stuff there was a hint at something we hadnt heard about

- "new plague army" (quote)

https://disqus.com/by/75hastings69/?

He edited his comment saying Skaven not "plague army".
EDIT: Nevermind looked at the wrong comment.

I guess its probably too early to be excited for Nurgle Daemonkin?

What else could it be? Its gotta be Nurgle Daemonkin. Right?
But hastings could've just said that. Except he didn't. He said 'new plague army.'
Thats an obvious fit for Nurgle Daemonkin, but Sad Panda/Atia said earlier in the year(if i recall correctly) that there wouldnt be any more 'Darmonkin' codexi.
So if not Nurgle Daemonkin, what?
It could be a Nurgle 'sourcebook'. Less a mishmash of Csm and CD but more a full-fledged expansion for nurgle.
It could also be...and let me finish.
The Hrud.
The Hrud, while obscure, do naturally have a time entropy field that is fairly plague-like in results. It's a long shot, but after this year, I'd say its possible.

Plastic Custodes models will be in the next HH boardgame according to Sad Panda. Sisters of Silence as well. That 'Guilliman storyline' getting a comment from Hastings though, is new info


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A Deathguard-focused campaign book, maybe? Like in End Times with several plastic kits? Blight drones, Plague Marines and Mortarion?

 alanmckenzie wrote:

Natfka says....

Trying to discover more about this week's releases, we are looking at a lot of Blood Angels on the pre-order list. A new Blood Angels supplement called the Angels Blade tops the list. Here is the latest.


via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
Black Crusade: Angels Blade (Blood Angel Supplement)
Blood Angels: Death Company Strike Froce
Blood Angles: Archangels Orbital Intervention Force
Blood Angles: Chapter Ancients
Blood Angel Assault Squad
Blood Angel Stern Guard Veteran Squad
Blood Angel Company Command
The Beast Arises 10: Last Son of Dorn (Book)
The Red Path (Book)

Blood Angels!

Two weeks ago I bought and built a full Sternguard squad for my successors...

Interested to know what the chapter ancients could be.

So loyalist chapters not only get their own special codexes, now they also get codex supplements? It's like "Hey, let's do new CSM supplements! So who should we flesh out some more.. oh, I know, how about some loyalist chapters?" This lack of love for traitor legions is getting a bit silly

The chapter ancients is probably 2x Dread box, my guess.