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 Vash108 wrote:
my Tomb Kings...

Sincerest condolences.

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

But if the loyalist primarchs return, reunite the legions, fracture the Imperium, and engage in an End-Times fight against Chaos, the setting will be changed.

And I've been saying this entire thread, that won't happen. GW is smart enough to know that makes no sense and they won't do it because they understand their own setting. The loyalist primarchs will arrive and nothing will happen. They'll fight some daemon primarchs, and somehow their arrival won't have any tangible affect on any factions, any alignments, the structure of the Imperium as a whole, etc. I predict it's not going to be any different than retconning the Tau in, or giving players Imperial Knights to play with, because GW isn't going to fundamentally alter the structure of their setting by actually advancing the story in any meaningful way. And that's a good thing.

On that we agree. I don't think anything about this is going to move the story into something completely different. As I've been saying repeatedly, a small shuffle forward. A larger shuffle than previously, but nothing that's crossing the finish line, so to speak.

I don't agree that moving the story is necessarily a bad thing. That's all.

 streetsamurai wrote:


Again, that's not true. Every setting has a scale of power, with certain characters having more power than others (and than the regular folk). This doesnt' mean that just because some disparities in power already exist, any disparities are therefore acceptable. Primarch are supposed to be vastly more powerful than the most powerful human in the galaxy ( vastly more powerful than each and everyone of the characters you named, bar maybe the sanguinor who is prety much an unknown). If you don't realise how much it change the setting, I don't know what else to tell you.

Not to mention that the fluff you mentionned is among the most despised among the 40k community, considering that, it is not exactly surprising that a lot of people are not happy that they double down on the heroism.

"Vastly" more powerful is a bit of an overstatement. A Space Marine is vastly more powerful than a Guardsman, but both are grains of sand to Khorne, or even just a Bloodthirster. A Primarch isn't any more of an army than any of the characters I've mentioned. Calgar fought an Avatar of Khaine in single combat. Dorn canonically died to a squad of Word Eaters.

A number of the Xenos or Chaos heroes are already on the power level of Primarchs anyway, and not all of the former are even "evil".

I can understand the concern, but GW killed armies, changed fluff in new codexes, introduced new vehicles that "always" have been there.

So we just have to see and wait, what will happen.

I wished they adapted the Warmachine way, time moves along character die but you can still play them (with some restrictions).

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

Requizen wrote:
That's not really correct.

The 40k universe is a setting. The struggle between mankind, xenos and Chaos is a story. It began with the Emperor, and unfolded through the Heresy and all the events that led up to this point. There is clearly a beginning and middle, it's always been a story waiting for the end.

The 40k universe at large exists outside of that. It was around before the Emperor showed up with his Thunder Warriors, and it will be around after the final clash between Chaos and everyone else. Much like the Tolkienverse exists outside of the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

And that's not correct at all. 40k is a setting, and the struggle between mankind, Chaos, etc, are stories that exist solely to inform that setting. It's not a story, it's history. Other than refinements, expansions, and retroactive additions to the history, the setting has not changed, and the "story" has never moved forward since the game began. I don't know why you would ever expect it to be a story with an ending, when it's never been a story that progressed, ever, since the game was created. It's an intentionally open-ended setting because that's what drives player creativity, and it's Games Workshop's greatest asset.

If they "finished" the story in a campaign book, they would have to roll it back anyway in the rulebook and codices to give us a setting to play in, and then you'd complain and say "what was the point?"

What you're asking for makes no sense, and you don't understand the topic well enough to see that. Dunning-Kruger effect at work.

Why does the story have to be unfinished in order to game in it? The Lord of the Rings story is finished and all wrapped up but we can still play games in the Middle Earth setting and indeed in the actual LOTR story. All the events of Historical games are finished, yet we can still play games in them, both reenactments of actual events and creating our own alternate histories. The ending of the Horus Heresy story is a foregone conclusion yet people still play games in that time period of 40K.

Your argument that a setting requires an unfinished main story in order to allow players to create their own stories in the setting is laughably absurd and doesn't stand up under even the slightest bit of scrutiny.

For all the proponents of plot advancement, let me pose you a question. How should Fenris die? Ultimately it must, for all things eventually end and the 41st Millenium is the Time of Ending. So what would be a fitting end? Should the Thousand Sons and their primarch be involved? Afterall, it would only be fitting, no? Should Russ return to stand with his sons for their final battle?

Ok, so what happens when the Thousand Sons and Magnus the Red and Leman Russ all show up on Fenris and Fenris doesn't die? What happens when Ragnarok comes and goes and the world doesn't end? Was it really the final battle or is there another more final battle waiting to happen? And if so how can Russ return for the Last Battle when he already returned for the Second-to-the-Last Battle? Do you see how the setting is cheapened by this?

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
For all the proponents of plot advancement, let me pose you a question. How should Fenris die? Ultimately it must, for all things eventually end and the 41st Millenium is the Time of Ending. So what would be a fitting end? Should the Thousand Sons and their primarch be involved? Afterall, it would only be fitting, no? Should Russ return to stand with his sons for their final battle?

Ok, so what happens when the Thousand Sons and Magnus the Red and Leman Russ all show up on Fenris and Fenris doesn't die? What happens when Ragnarok comes and goes and the world doesn't end? Was it really the final battle or is there another more final battle waiting to happen? And if so how can Russ return for the Last Battle when he already returned for the Second-to-the-Last Battle? Do you see how the setting is cheapened by this?

I don't understand your question. "What if they said they were going to do something and then completely fethed it up?" Well I don't know, that would suck.

Here's a question to you, what if Magnus and his Thousand Sons made planetfall on Fenris to fight Leman Russ and his Wolves and then the story was left open ended for the time being, allowing you to exist in that setting if you pleased, or ignore the Primarchs if you want to deal with other parts of the universe?

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
For all the proponents of plot advancement, let me pose you a question. How should Fenris die? Ultimately it must, for all things eventually end and the 41st Millenium is the Time of Ending. So what would be a fitting end? Should the Thousand Sons and their primarch be involved? Afterall, it would only be fitting, no? Should Russ return to stand with his sons for their final battle?

Ok, so what happens when the Thousand Sons and Magnus the Red and Leman Russ all show up on Fenris and Fenris doesn't die? What happens when Ragnarok comes and goes and the world doesn't end? Was it really the final battle or is there another more final battle waiting to happen? And if so how can Russ return for the Last Battle when he already returned for the Second-to-the-Last Battle? Do you see how the setting is cheapened by this?

Fenris can totally die. It could be turned into another desolate, chaos-ridden, broken landscape with barbarians running wild. The world itself doesn't need to 'explode'.

A deposed and broken Space Wolf Legion/Chapter could flee, or the majority of it be annihilated, whatever they write.
For that matter, Russ doesn't have to return to fight for Fenris, as that might not be the actual End Times. It might be the Wolf Time for Fenris, but in general, it's not the end.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

Requizen wrote:
That's not really correct.

The 40k universe is a setting. The struggle between mankind, xenos and Chaos is a story. It began with the Emperor, and unfolded through the Heresy and all the events that led up to this point. There is clearly a beginning and middle, it's always been a story waiting for the end.

The 40k universe at large exists outside of that. It was around before the Emperor showed up with his Thunder Warriors, and it will be around after the final clash between Chaos and everyone else. Much like the Tolkienverse exists outside of the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

And that's not correct at all. 40k is a setting, and the struggle between mankind, Chaos, etc, are stories that exist solely to inform that setting. It's not a story, it's history. Other than refinements, expansions, and retroactive additions to the history, the setting has not changed, and the "story" has never moved forward since the game began. I don't know why you would ever expect it to be a story with an ending, when it's never been a story that progressed, ever, since the game was created. It's an intentionally open-ended setting because that's what drives player creativity, and it's Games Workshop's greatest asset.

If they "finished" the story in a campaign book, they would have to roll it back anyway in the rulebook and codices to give us a setting to play in, and then you'd complain and say "what was the point?"

What you're asking for makes no sense, and you don't understand the topic well enough to see that. Dunning-Kruger effect at work.

Why does the story have to be unfinished in order to game in it? The Lord of the Rings story is finished and all wrapped up but we can still play games in the Middle Earth setting and indeed in the actual LOTR story. All the events of Historical games are finished, yet we can still play games in them, both reenactments of actual events and creating our own alternate histories. The ending of the Horus Heresy story is a foregone conclusion yet people still play games in that time period of 40K.

Your argument that a setting requires an unfinished main story in order to allow players to create their own stories in the setting is laughably absurd and doesn't stand up under even the slightest bit of scrutiny.

Of course nothing stops you from finding a ruleset to support any era of historical wargaming you like and making up your own stories within it. No one owns the intellectual property rights to the War of the Roses; no one can "advance" the War of the Roses and in doing so change the supporting ruleset to an extent that invalidates your army and their alternate history. The laughably absurd thing is you bringing it up in this context.

For what it's worth, 40k supports "historical" play within the 40k setting precisely because the setting has remained essentially unchanged for millennia and the rules reflect that. Army lists now are entirely representative of forces from M33. But creating from thin air a major plot in 40k, whether historical or contemporary, is different from creating an alternate history of WWII, or focusing on a small imaginary action that didn't affect the war's outcome. Real history doesn't offer you the same creative license that says "your story is as real as any other because no one else knows how this ends".

Next, any company supporting gaming within an IP with an established story (including GW themselves with LotR) typically work to support different distinct settings within that story. The story is already told; there is little ambiguity surrounding major events, so the rules tend to stick to the narrative. Note that this does stifle creativity - we all know in great detail what happened to the Fellowship of the Ring. I don't think anyone was buying LotR so they could create Frago the Ring Bearer and craft a totally different story for him.

And now try your argument with a Tomb Kings player, or a Squat player, if you can find one. For that matter talk to any former Fantasy player whose army now exists only in greatly altered form. The setting has changed (whether via retconning or story advancement) and their fluff, models, and in some cases rules are no longer available. They won't be supported going forward. The end. Good luck trying to create a narrative campaign with your friends centered on your Squat empire when they no longer exist in the setting and no rules are provided to represent them.

It's an extreme example, but if GW were to move the story forward in a really meaningful way, there would be casualties - factions would change, armies would be relegated to a historical setting that new players don't even recognize, and you'd run the risk that the new setting you arrived at would be less compelling than the old one. Do this on a regular basis and pretty soon you've moved away from what makes 40k great - the big, open sandbox we all share. Instead we'd all be balkanized into our little groups because "well I spent $500 and a year of my time building this army, but then they were invalidated and no longer supported in the rules or story, so I've stopped following the game and stick to the last edition and the old fluff." That's how an advancing story kills creativity.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
I wished they adapted the Warmachine way, time moves along character die but you can still play them (with some restrictions).

Isn't that the current format?

Specifically referring to Captain Tycho (who I believe is currently dead in the most recent known date) but you get to play him in his glory days...or after he has succumbed and in the Death Company.

They've already ruined the setting for me. The Newcrons fluff overwrote the history I found most compelling in the setting and sapped my motivation for three of my army projects. Then the Tyranid Narvhal codex made my favorite faction...kind of stupid and out of character. Yes, I still have the old books, but that doesn't make the fluff I loved not feel dead. And that was a minor change that many fans don't believe actually affected the setting. If GW advances the timeline, they run a huge risk of killing their customers' interest. If the reward is just selling us a few more big models, well they were doing that anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It would be like making a sequel to Star Wars where everything the characters fought for had deteriorated offscreen to a handful of easily-destroyed planets and negative character growth, and the villains were just the scrapings at the bottom of the barrel. Surely, you can see how permanently damaging the setting by removing the "happy ever after" and installing mediocrity could ruin a franchise?


Or make a billion dollars. Maybe that one.

 Fayric wrote:
I think the "red" part has more to do with the egyptian theme rather than tzeench.
The common egyptian was depicted with red skin, if I recall correctly. That would fit with magnus tanned "coppery" skin in a way beeing red.
Also the god seth was depicted with a donkey brush of red hair,

(And Seths battles with Horus is also kind of interresting; basicly, while the true god ruler, Osiris, is reduced to a be corpse on a throne passively channeling his soul power, there is a great civil war between Seth and Horus for the reign of the land.)

Nope, his skin is/was always bright red, an unnatural red, it wasn't hyperbole or exaggeration. He is the color he is supposed to be -

 Vash108 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

pepsuber wrote:
Thing is, you would not be affected by this.

Tell that to the Bret and TK players.

my Tomb Kings...

I was just at an AoS tournament that had 2-3 Tomb Kings players. You can too :-) and I still think they'll bring them back eventually. The kits are too good not to.

 Yodhrin wrote:

snip...

An Imperium united in superstition, stagnation and decline, its best days behind it, beset on all sides by alien menaces and haunted by daemons from the beyond and the shadows of the betrayal they inspired in ancient times, engaged in a futile attempt to stem the tide that mercilessly grinds down what little remains of their humanity as the clock ticks relentlessly towards midnight. That is 40K, that tone, that flavour, and it cannot survive the reintroduction of the Loyalists because doing so necessarily changes so much of the certanties that underpin it. We're not just talking about shifting the clock forward a wee touch here, the return of the Loyalists is literally supposed to herald the apocalypse, and even their existence will alter the Imperium beyond all recognition - or at least it should, because if it doesn't, if the return of the Loyalist Primarchs isn't as big a deal as previous fluff has stated and their inevitable impact on all the existing fluff would imply, why bother with them at all?

I suppose that's why I just don't get people who want the story to advance. Either the advancement is meaningful and significant enough that it significantly changes the setting, which would surely be a bad thing if you like 40K for what it is; or it's just an anaemic deckchair-shuffling exercise where nothing really changes, in which case what was the point?

This needed to be repeated. Not just Exalted.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
They've already ruined the setting for me. The Newcrons fluff overwrote the history I found most compelling in the setting and sapped my motivation for three of my army projects. Then the Tyranid Narvhal codex made my favorite faction...kind of stupid and out of character. Yes, I still have the old books, but that doesn't make the fluff I loved not feel dead. And that was a minor change that many fans don't believe actually affected the setting. If GW advances the timeline, they run a huge risk of killing their customers' interest. If the reward is just selling us a few more big models, well they were doing that anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It would be like making a sequel to Star Wars where everything the characters fought for had deteriorated offscreen to a handful of easily-destroyed planets and negative character growth, and the villains were just the scrapings at the bottom of the barrel. Surely, you can see how permanently damaging the setting by removing the "happy ever after" and installing mediocrity could ruin a franchise?


Or make a billion dollars. Maybe that one.

I feel you on starwars. Still people jump at the new crap as if there is no tomorrow. Fans are their worst enemy.

 skrulnik wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

snip...

An Imperium united in superstition, stagnation and decline, its best days behind it, beset on all sides by alien menaces and haunted by daemons from the beyond and the shadows of the betrayal they inspired in ancient times, engaged in a futile attempt to stem the tide that mercilessly grinds down what little remains of their humanity as the clock ticks relentlessly towards midnight. That is 40K, that tone, that flavour, and it cannot survive the reintroduction of the Loyalists because doing so necessarily changes so much of the certanties that underpin it. We're not just talking about shifting the clock forward a wee touch here, the return of the Loyalists is literally supposed to herald the apocalypse, and even their existence will alter the Imperium beyond all recognition - or at least it should, because if it doesn't, if the return of the Loyalist Primarchs isn't as big a deal as previous fluff has stated and their inevitable impact on all the existing fluff would imply, why bother with them at all?

I suppose that's why I just don't get people who want the story to advance. Either the advancement is meaningful and significant enough that it significantly changes the setting, which would surely be a bad thing if you like 40K for what it is; or it's just an anaemic deckchair-shuffling exercise where nothing really changes, in which case what was the point?

This needed to be repeated. Not just Exalted.

"....anaemic deckchair-shuffling exercise where nothing really changes...."
And?
That's what 40k has always been.
Dante fights a hive tyrant - big whoop, we know he is going to live. The cadian gate will always hold, the Marines will always turn the tide, etc.
40k is just a series of deckchair-shuffling exercises that pretend to be the main event at a party - the status quo, until recently, was never touched. And in some ways, they still dont. The latest campaign books change very little in actuality by the end of the book. A lot happens, but it has very little consequences on the setting at large.
I don't know what setting you were enjoying, but it wasn't 40K.

Hi, Guard player here. I've lost countless special characters since I began playing in late 3rd. I also had a small Crimson Fist army, and many of you know what happened to Captain Cortez. Stuff happens, fluff gets re-written and thats just how the game goes. Learn to accept it. I like to write my own fluff as a compliment to the official stories. Heck, I have been drawing starmaps and planets for far longer that I've been playing. Have my personal stories been invalidated? Yes, some of them. But it is easy to file under "Nobody knows exaclty what happened". You know, like everything else in the entire setting.

It is worth to mention that I also started a Bretonnia army before the axe fell. And I'm still OK. Accept - Adapt - Adjust. At the moment I'm playing just as much AoS as 40k, but I digress.

There have been plenty of new toys for SM, Eldar, Tau, Necrons etc. New as in: never mentioned before it hit the shelves. Didn't the Riptide "advance the story"? I have memories of people screaming "THE END IS NEAR" back then; but maybe that was because of the rules

So when a well known character that never became lost or near death in stasis or probably dead because we just found a hand enters center stage there is litterary nothing you can complain about.

It's Magnus the Red! We all knew that he could stop pondering/moping one day and start getting stuff done. He have left the planet of sorcerors atleast 2 times earlier so whats the big fuss? It changes nothing and nothing has been taken away. My current 1KSons army will not move an inch because of this. I will start another army in red though

At this point I have to think either people are just trying to get a rise, or can't be bothered actually reading what others have written, else folk wouldn't still be asking what the big deal with Magnus is when that's been explicitly addressed on multiple occasions by multiple posters.

But hey, if folk are determined to dismiss actual, real, as in it's already happened concerns because either they have no experience of the effects or are just willing to roll with whatever GW churn out, that's that eh.

You can choose to ignore the impact of these kinds of changes, but it will still happen. I've been involved with the Specialist Games since the initial releases of BFG and Mordheim, and every time GW reduced support culminating in the final canning, it's gotten harder and harder to get new people involved. And don't tell me fluff has no impact on that, because not long ago I was trying to put together a Mordheim campaign and the new AoS fluff is the reason it failed to get off the ground - one of the prospective players was new to GW fantasy, didn't know or care about WHF fluff, and stormed off in a huff when he was told he couldn't play his precious Sigmarines in the Mordheim setting, and since many of the other prospects were his pals, they felt they couldn't be involved without him, so we didn't get enough signups to justify a regular table.

Also don't try telling me "minor" changes to the background don't have real implications, look at the Iron Hands. A lot of IH fans have been around since the IA article in 3rd Edition, until GW casually gutted their fluff. They're still called Iron Hands, they're still "black-armoured Marines with loads of bionics", but the structure of the chapter and the tone of the fluff were altered. Now I get labelled as a powergamer by people who're newer to the game and only know the new fluff because I continue to use the Space Wolf codex to represent the chapter as it was, I've even had people refuse to play me on that basis. And try explaining to one of the new fans why, plenty of them will take your distaste for the new fluff ridiculously personally, as if you're criticising them for liking it, that reaction is always fun.

 Yodhrin wrote:
At this point I have to think either people are just trying to get a rise, or can't be bothered actually reading what others have written, else folk wouldn't still be asking what the big deal with Magnus is when that's been explicitly addressed on multiple occasions by multiple posters.

But hey, if folk are determined to dismiss actual, real, as in it's already happened concerns because either they have no experience of the effects or are just willing to roll with whatever GW churn out, that's that eh.

You can choose to ignore the impact of these kinds of changes, but it will still happen. I've been involved with the Specialist Games since the initial releases of BFG and Mordheim, and every time GW reduced support culminating in the final canning, it's gotten harder and harder to get new people involved. And don't tell me fluff has no impact on that, because not long ago I was trying to put together a Mordheim campaign and the new AoS fluff is the reason it failed to get off the ground - one of the prospective players was new to GW fantasy, didn't know or care about WHF fluff, and stormed off in a huff when he was told he couldn't play his precious Sigmarines in the Mordheim setting, and since many of the other prospects were his pals, they felt they couldn't be involved without him, so we didn't get enough signups to justify a regular table.

Also don't try telling me "minor" changes to the background don't have real implications, look at the Iron Hands. A lot of IH fans have been around since the IA article in 3rd Edition, until GW casually gutted their fluff. They're still called Iron Hands, they're still "black-armoured Marines with loads of bionics", but the structure of the chapter and the tone of the fluff were altered. Now I get labelled as a powergamer by people who're newer to the game and only know the new fluff because I continue to use the Space Wolf codex to represent the chapter as it was, I've even had people refuse to play me on that basis. And try explaining to one of the new fans why, plenty of them will take your distaste for the new fluff ridiculously personally, as if you're criticising them for liking it, that reaction is always fun.

Couldn't you just use the Start Collecting formation to represent Iron Hands as they were supposed to be? Using the Captain as Sergeant with terminator armour, and the sergeant as corporal?^^

Yodhrin: Was that was aimed at me (at least in part)?

I've read the whole thread. Every single post. All of it.

Yes - Magnus "returning" is a big deal. But all this fear of the 40k end times or that this is a cataclysmic event that will destroy everything we love is monty python level comedy.

One side have expressed their concerns and the other side have put out arguments about why they think othervise.

Sorry about your mordheim campaign though. Some players are like that.

Hasn't Magnus the red showed up previously in fluff battles - could they not be exploring older stuff like they have been doing with the Beast Arises?

Did the big red show up at Armageddon or was that just Angron?

 Forcemajeure wrote:
Yodhrin: Was that was aimed at me (at least in part)?

I've read the whole thread. Every single post. All of it.

Yes - Magnus "returning" is a big deal. But all this fear of the 40k end times or that this is a cataclysmic event that will destroy everything we love is monty python level comedy.

One side have expressed their concerns and the other side have put out arguments about why they think othervise.

Sorry about your mordheim campaign though. Some players are like that.

Actually it's exactly the same as the pre AoS threads.

Joyboozer wrote:
/.../
Actually it's exactly the same as the pre AoS threads.

Huh, I was not aware of the 3+ new Fantasy armies that GW released right before the end times. I mean, that would be a stupid business decision even for GW.

The argument might be similar, but the discussed subject is different.

 Yodhrin wrote:
You can choose to ignore the impact of these kinds of changes, but it will still happen. I've been involved with the Specialist Games since the initial releases of BFG and Mordheim, and every time GW reduced support culminating in the final canning, it's gotten harder and harder to get new people involved. And don't tell me fluff has no impact on that, because not long ago I was trying to put together a Mordheim campaign and the new AoS fluff is the reason it failed to get off the ground - one of the prospective players was new to GW fantasy, didn't know or care about WHF fluff, and stormed off in a huff when he was told he couldn't play his precious Sigmarines in the Mordheim setting, and since many of the other prospects were his pals, they felt they couldn't be involved without him, so we didn't get enough signups to justify a regular table.

I think you're exaggerating things here. What you are saying is your Mordheim campaign fell flat because AoS fluff exists. This is bs.

The prospective player you are talking about liked the AoS stuff and probably the Stormcast eternals in particular. He figured that since Mordheim and AoS are in fact related, he might enjoy that game as well. However, because he is new he had no idea that Stormcast eternals were not represented in Mordheim and didn't even exist within the setting at that point of time.
As a result he was disappointed and decided Mordheim was not the game for him based on the fact what Mordheim is. If he didn't like WHF lore, he probably didn't like it regardless of the existence of AoS.

That does not mean Mordheim is ruined by AoS existing. People are still allowed to dislike Mordheim and WHF based of the fact that it does or doesn't have certain things they like. The fact that AoS did something different which people did like has no relation to their disliking of WHF.

 Forcemajeure wrote:
Yodhrin: Was that was aimed at me (at least in part)?

I've read the whole thread. Every single post. All of it.

Yes - Magnus "returning" is a big deal. But all this fear of the 40k end times or that this is a cataclysmic event that will destroy everything we love is monty python level comedy.

One side have expressed their concerns and the other side have put out arguments about why they think othervise.

Sorry about your mordheim campaign though. Some players are like that.

Since AoS happened, people concern cannot be dismissed so easily.

Furthermore, the fact that while we shift the focus on these big models and creatures, other important part of the game are overlooked.

The designers didn't bother to price accurately the transports in parody codex like the Tempestus, or after years we still have models with WS, S, and survivability dramatically different that pay the same for power fists/claws. This is infuriating.

And, after people spent time and effort working with models, you cannot just tell them to "roll with it" sorry. This attitude contributes to the game eventually dying.
"B-but the new releases..." well in this, too, I keep seeing analogies with WHFB.

Regardless of fluff impact that magnus model is super nice and I look forward to doing my best to paint one myself. I also look foreword to fulgrim because slaanesh is best god.

 Lockark wrote:
Regardless of fluff impact that magnus model is super nice and I look forward to doing my best to paint one myself. I also look foreword to fulgrim because slaanesh is best god.

Indeed! I'm still curious about what could be on the right side of the box. Another deamon perhaps? It has the same red colour near the base as Magnus legs and that white part with a blue stripe is similar to the tabard/loincloth

 Forcemajeure wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:
/.../
Actually it's exactly the same as the pre AoS threads.

Huh, I was not aware of the 3+ new Fantasy armies that GW released right before the end times. I mean, that would be a stupid business decision even for GW.

The argument might be similar, but the discussed subject is different.

You missed the end times army books?

Joyboozer wrote:

 Forcemajeure wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:
/.../
Actually it's exactly the same as the pre AoS threads.

Huh, I was not aware of the 3+ new Fantasy armies that GW released right before the end times. I mean, that would be a stupid business decision even for GW.

The argument might be similar, but the discussed subject is different.

You missed the end times army books?

Did the end times books come with releases of entirely newly sculpted new armies and not just a few extra characters?

Did GW release any new Fantasy armies during the years prior to the end times? Did they re-release any older armies that had not had any armybooks or models for 10+ years?

BobtheInquisitor wrote:They've already ruined the setting for me. The Newcrons fluff overwrote the history I found most compelling in the setting and sapped my motivation for three of my army projects. Then the Tyranid Narvhal codex made my favorite faction...kind of stupid and out of character. Yes, I still have the old books, but that doesn't make the fluff I loved not feel dead. And that was a minor change that many fans don't believe actually affected the setting. If GW advances the timeline, they run a huge risk of killing their customers' interest. If the reward is just selling us a few more big models, well they were doing that anyway.


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It would be like making a sequel to Star Wars where everything the characters fought for had deteriorated offscreen to a handful of easily-destroyed planets and negative character growth, and the villains were just the scrapings at the bottom of the barrel. Surely, you can see how permanently damaging the setting by removing the "happy ever after" and installing mediocrity could ruin a franchise?


Or make a billion dollars. Maybe that one.

So do you like your Tyranids with metal guns, machinery, personality and individual character? If not then you have nothing to complain about.

This thread is full of the most ridiculous doomsaying and rambling I've seen in a long time.

Primarchs returning is not the end of the world. 40k is not in the state that WHFB was before the End Times (and even GW of two years ago wouldn't be stupid enough to do another End Times after that fiasco). Bad things in a company's past does not mean that everything they do will be bad, nor do good actions mean that all their new ideas and releases will be perfect.

I don't hold any illusions that GW is infallable or that they won't screw up. But saying that Primarchs returning will destroy the setting as we know it is completely absurd.

Things will be fine. The status quo will remain because it always does, with minor fluff changes and maybe (hopefully) a return to the old alliance chart where DA are not best buds with SW.