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"Look at this awesome miniature!"

"Oh, god, they're ruining the fluff!"

"But, it's pretty!"

"The end is nigh! You're all sheeple! Wake up!"

"I just want to paint gak and play games..."

"You're ruining everything!"

It's like listening to a teenager being asked to take out the trash and then have to listen to how the baby boomers are killing the whales for gasoline...

hahahahaha
you're my boy, kronk!!!

i am having more fun now, painting the new minis, than i ever have in the past 30 years

cheers
jah

 kronk wrote:
"Look at this awesome miniature!"

"Oh, god, they're ruining the fluff!"

"But, it's pretty!"

"The end is nigh! You're all sheeple! Wake up!"

"I just want to paint gak and play games..."

"You're ruining everything!"

It's like listening to a teenager being asked to take out the trash and then have to listen to how the baby boomers are killing the whales for gasoline...

The miniature is not awesome for everybody. I, for one, prefer small models like scions and skitarii, among the new(ish) ones. This focus on big models do not suit me and, as a customer, I have all the rights to do not like it (and to state it in a forum dedicated to wargaming. Complains about my rants concerning the underprincing of Eldar units I posted in four different gardening forums are more than justified).

Remember that any energy GW devolves on these huge abominations do not go on fixing or improving older units.

Furthermore, Magnus looks like an Action Figure with "wowish" proportions. I just don't dig this AoS style models. Can I say it? Or it is forbidden? You are the one supposed to choose what and what not can be complained?
The complains are not limited to aesthetics: In the tactics threads, people are often concerned about how the game scaled up, and all the problems we have because of that. Another huge model, another step on the "scaling up the game" ladder. A game with superheavies and gargantuans. But precision shots too. That adds models when half of the armies are barely functional.

"Pretty" is subjective. I find it disgusting. And everybody wants to paint stuff and play games, go figure. Point being, the design decisions of GW, both in fluff, style and rules, are erratic and often mind boggling. Last time a game (WHFB) was mistreated like that, it failed, and GW answer was to burn it down and substitute with a new one, one that can be considered a game as much as that famous painting of Magritte can be considered a pipe.

So, people are worried (because of recent and ancient squatting of models, armies or whole games), see analogies, and comment it, but somehow that is not good. We should keep our heads under the sand and be good customers and buy every crap GW churns out without any comment.

What about not.

You are not entitled to choose what can be complained and what not and your comment is dismissing. because of the points above, your comment can be just read as "whaaa people complain about stuff that for me is not a problem, feth their priorities as gamers".

Not as erratic and mind boggling as trying to read your last few rants.

Requizen wrote:
Not as erratic and mind boggling as trying to read your last few rants.

You broke my heart. Ah, and another personal attack.

Strike two, buddy.

 MajorTom11 wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
I think the "red" part has more to do with the egyptian theme rather than tzeench.
The common egyptian was depicted with red skin, if I recall correctly. That would fit with magnus tanned "coppery" skin in a way beeing red.
Also the god seth was depicted with a donkey brush of red hair,

(And Seths battles with Horus is also kind of interresting; basicly, while the true god ruler, Osiris, is reduced to a be corpse on a throne passively channeling his soul power, there is a great civil war between Seth and Horus for the reign of the land.)

Nope, his skin is/was always bright red, an unnatural red, it wasn't hyperbole or exaggeration. He is the color he is supposed to be -

It wasn't always. His description in the Epic (Space Marine) game said he was called Magnus the Red because of his red hair. And he was a cyclops. The red skin and two eye sockets I think was created when they started expanding on the Horus Heresy probably for that card game they did set in the heresy. A lot of artwork was created for that game for things that didn't have much artwork before.

And I'd have to get out my old books to find where, but I recall his skin being described as coppery, with red hair and beard. It was changed at some point.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

Strike two, buddy.

I'm terrified. No really, I'm sitting here fearing your wrath. aaaahhhh.


Seriously, what was the point of your last post? "I don't like the model therefore I'm allowed to rave incessantly about the the direction that I think the game is going even though there is no grounded information to make it seem that it's going that way"?

You're complaining about people going out to, and I quote, "buy every crap GW churns out without any comment" while providing nothing to the conversation other than negative whinging and putting down people who aren't as sure that the sky is falling as you are. And you even took the time to attack the game portion of AoS, which has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion that was going on and is just more screaming into the void about things you don't like. If you're going to threaten to police people's posts, at least try to stay on the topic at hand.

Albino Squirrel wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
I think the "red" part has more to do with the egyptian theme rather than tzeench.
The common egyptian was depicted with red skin, if I recall correctly. That would fit with magnus tanned "coppery" skin in a way beeing red.
Also the god seth was depicted with a donkey brush of red hair,

(And Seths battles with Horus is also kind of interresting; basicly, while the true god ruler, Osiris, is reduced to a be corpse on a throne passively channeling his soul power, there is a great civil war between Seth and Horus for the reign of the land.)

Nope, his skin is/was always bright red, an unnatural red, it wasn't hyperbole or exaggeration. He is the color he is supposed to be -

It wasn't always. His description in the Epic (Space Marine) game said he was called Magnus the Red because of his red hair. And he was a cyclops. The red skin and two eye sockets I think was created when they started expanding on the Horus Heresy probably for that card game they did set in the heresy. A lot of artwork was created for that game for things that didn't have much artwork before.

And I'd have to get out my old books to find where, but I recall his skin being described as coppery, with red hair and beard. It was changed at some point.

See, the good thing about Magnus - he actually can look how he wants, and he can look different for you, you and me. If you want to paint him blue with red hair, do it. If you want to model flames and paint him yellow (you could even add brimstone horrors to the flames, bet that would look awesome) - do it. If you want to paint him black with red hair and pink armour, go for it. Magnus is really great ^.^

Requizen wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

Strike two, buddy.

I'm terrified. No really, I'm sitting here fearing your wrath. aaaahhhh.


Seriously, what was the point of your last post? "I don't like the model therefore I'm allowed to rave incessantly about the the direction that I think the game is going even though there is no grounded information to make it seem that it's going that way"?

You're complaining about people going out to, and I quote, "buy every crap GW churns out without any comment" while providing nothing to the conversation other than negative whinging and putting down people who aren't as sure that the sky is falling as you are. And you even took the time to attack the game portion of AoS, which has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion that was going on and is just more screaming into the void about things you don't like. If you're going to threaten to police people's posts, at least try to stay on the topic at hand.

I am quite sure the rules are against personal attacks. Just stop. I will refuse any other comment on this topic. Just stop.

For the rest: well is a matter of perspective I guess. What I did observe in the thread is people expressing positive and negative views on the model and the fact that is perhaps the harbinger of
1) a different scale of narrative in the setting
2) changes, even dramatical, in the setting
2b) end of times.

People pointed out analogies, squatting, and other events that already happened, reported personal experiences with their armies, but you and other posters dismissed everything as insanity, even if stuff like End of Times and AoS happened. Talking about ostriches.

And sorry, this is offensive, disrespectful, dismissing, and dismissing is exactly the world I would use to define you last posts in the thread. As the post I just answered to. Or Kronk's one. Just reread yourself.

This dismissing attitude is the same of GW: is a total disrespect of the effort and care people put in certain models and armies. A disrespect that goes from squatting to just price them so badly at the point of being not functional. And people have the right of express doubt, or even rage, when they see certain pattern repeat themselves.

According to half of Dakka, GW is on the verge of financial ruin every year, so why blame them for releasing awesome models (from the look of it on the box, at least) that people have been asking for for years? I get that people love the 40K fluff, but how much fluff is going to be left when GW goes under? Chances are a company like Disney or Hasbro would buy the IP and then you'd REALLY have something to complain about.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:


I am quite sure the rules are against personal attacks. Just stop. I will refuse any other comment on this topic. Just stop.

For the rest: well is a matter of perspective I guess. What I did observe in the thread is people expressing positive and negative views on the model and the fact that is perhaps the harbinger of
1) a different scale of narrative in the setting
2) changes, even dramatical, in the setting
2b) end of times.

People pointed out analogies, squatting, and other events that already happened, reported personal experiences with their armies, but you and other posters dismissed everything as insanity, even if stuff like End of Times and AoS happened. Talking about ostriches.

And sorry, this is offensive, disrespectful, dismissing, and dismissing is exactly the world I would use to define you last posts in the thread. As the post I just answered to. Or Kronk's one. Just reread yourself.

This dismissing attitude is the same of GW: is a total disrespect of the effort and care people put in certain models and armies. A disrespect that goes from squatting to just price them so badly at the point of being not functional. And people have the right of express doubt, or even rage, when they see certain pattern repeat themselves.

Squatting and retconning/revamping entire armies is not something that happens in recent years. When was the last time that happened? They're not removing armies, they've been re-releasing and adding them at a steady rate. Maybe the one you could argue is Black Templars getting rolled into Space Marines, so one example out of how many armies against many getting added and new supplements for sub-factions being added?

Pointing to things that happened 10 years ago is not an indicator of what is happening now. It especially does not help your point if you ignore the positive trend of the past two years and scream at anyone who points out the positive parts. Focusing only on the negative and claiming your position as truth without taking into account all facts, good and bad, makes your position seem shaky at best, and does not help you when you use that position to attack other people.

And, again, you cannot compare 40k to WHFB/End Times/AoS. WHFB was a sinking ship. According to the reports, it was selling less than paint. It was dying, and they put it down in a big old event and then created something new. Whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant to the discussion. 40k is not a sinking ship. They're selling the new models by the truckload. It's not in the same place as WHFB, and there is no evidence to say that they are even thinking of going the same route. To claim so is fallacious.

Well, I just passed out an ignore. Because good god, it was like this:




Back on topic, I'm not sure that people are fully grasping how this small advancement of the timeline will affect players' carefully crafted backgrounds for their Eldar/Imperial Knights/SM/Tyranid allied armies.

 Atia wrote:

Albino Squirrel wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
I think the "red" part has more to do with the egyptian theme rather than tzeench.
The common egyptian was depicted with red skin, if I recall correctly. That would fit with magnus tanned "coppery" skin in a way beeing red.
Also the god seth was depicted with a donkey brush of red hair,

(And Seths battles with Horus is also kind of interresting; basicly, while the true god ruler, Osiris, is reduced to a be corpse on a throne passively channeling his soul power, there is a great civil war between Seth and Horus for the reign of the land.)

Nope, his skin is/was always bright red, an unnatural red, it wasn't hyperbole or exaggeration. He is the color he is supposed to be -

It wasn't always. His description in the Epic (Space Marine) game said he was called Magnus the Red because of his red hair. And he was a cyclops. The red skin and two eye sockets I think was created when they started expanding on the Horus Heresy probably for that card game they did set in the heresy. A lot of artwork was created for that game for things that didn't have much artwork before.

And I'd have to get out my old books to find where, but I recall his skin being described as coppery, with red hair and beard. It was changed at some point.

See, the good thing about Magnus - he actually can look how he wants, and he can look different for you, you and me. If you want to paint him blue with red hair, do it. If you want to model flames and paint him yellow (you could even add brimstone horrors to the flames, bet that would look awesome) - do it. If you want to paint him black with red hair and pink armour, go for it. Magnus is really great ^.^

It's that train of thought that made me look at the Silver Tower Thaumaturge and think "That could be a Magnus stand in" when the game was released.

Maybe Tzeentch was messing with my mind!

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

/.../
People pointed out analogies, squatting, and other events that already happened, reported personal experiences with their armies, but you and other posters dismissed everything as insanity, even if stuff like End of Times and AoS happened. Talking about ostriches.
/.../

1. 40k is not even remotely near the state that WHFB was in before the end times.
2. The Squats was dropped ages ago. I would not be suprized if less than 1% of the current active community has seen a Squat model IRL (let alone a whole army)
3. Personal experiences hold very little water in a diskussion like this. Example; AoS have made me enjoy my Brettonians more than ever. Therefore: Everyone that liked WHFB are wrong

See how litte point 3 does to change anyones opinion? It does not further the discussion and is anecdotal at best.

4. Why does people see the new models and armies as a proof that GW are gonna ax 40k?

At evil GW HQ
"Lets fill the shelves with new armies like Mechanicus and Genestealer Cults to give the players what they want, even new Sisters! Just remember to scrap the game in 2 years"

... Yea... No.

EDIT: Requizen ninjad most of my points

How dare GW produce new miniatures for us.

How very dare they.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:


The miniature is not awesome for everybody.

Then don't fething buy it? Yep. That's always an option!

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

You are not entitled to choose what can be complained and what not and your comment is dismissing.

But, you just dismissed my comments!

Now, please pretend I posted a 4 paragraph, rambling reply about how MY view is the only correct view. Then you'll see what the rest of us are reading.

Only I won't post that 4 paragraph, masterbatory, rambling pile of bs, because I have respect for my fellow posters.


Happy gaming!

I might buy 2. 1 to paint, and one to kit bash into a flying GW Container!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gorgon wrote:

Back on topic, I'm not sure that people are fully grasping how this small advancement of the timeline will affect players' carefully crafted backgrounds for their Eldar/Imperial Knights/SM/Tyranid allied armies.

The pain train is coming! He's got long hair, drinks beers, hangs out with dire wolves, and he HATES aliens like I hate going on diets!

Woo-Woo!




Edit: I know. Wrong Leman Russ. STFU! The picture is perfect!

It looks amazing and I hope I can use it with Daemons in a bound way. Otherwise, I honestly may not pick it up even though it's such a good-looking model. My poor wallet is too thin to justify it if I'm not gonna use it.

Oh my, everyone needs to chill out and wait till we have any information regarding what, if anything is going to happen to the fluff! You don't like the direction it's going? Ignore it! I have two entire armies based off an alternate 40K universe and everyone I play against loves it. Makes for some awesome campaigns against Chaotic Space Wolves and daemons enslaved to the Imperium.

As it is we have a super cool model for a primarch and the promise for more love for Tzeench in the near future. Did anyone notice Sad Panda's hint that we may be seeing Rubric Terminators???

Also super glad that GW didn't design Magnus in the same way they did this big magic fella...

Anyone wanna hazard a guess at a price? I'm guessing Bloodthirster-level, so $160-ish Canadian ($140 USD?)

 gorgon wrote:

Back on topic, I'm not sure that people are fully grasping how this small advancement of the timeline will affect players' carefully crafted backgrounds for their Eldar/Imperial Knights/SM/Tyranid allied armies.

But but my Slaanesh Daemon Summoning Eldar with Grey Knight and Deathwatch allies fit the lore so well!

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Anyone wanna hazard a guess at a price? I'm guessing Bloodthirster-level, so $160-ish Canadian ($140 USD?)

Ouch.

I hope not, but you're probably right.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Anyone wanna hazard a guess at a price? I'm guessing Bloodthirster-level, so $160-ish Canadian ($140 USD?)

The Bloodthirster is $115, Skarbrand is $130. Magnus doesn't look as overdesigned as Archaon ($165), so probably more in the Skarbrand range. Still expensive, but that much pretty plastic may be worthwhile to some people.

I'm holding out for Mortarion, personally. Death Guard please

People don't like the miniature - that's grand, it's not going to be for everyone. I personally like it but if you think he's a big ugly red beastie that you'd not want on your shelf that's absolutely fine, it makes the world so much more interesting.

What I cannot wrap my head around is the model becoming an avatar for a hypothetical scenario that may or may not happen. This is one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever seen on here.

But that's Dakka for ya!

Wouldn't change it for the world.

Requizen wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:


I am quite sure the rules are against personal attacks. Just stop. I will refuse any other comment on this topic. Just stop.

For the rest: well is a matter of perspective I guess. What I did observe in the thread is people expressing positive and negative views on the model and the fact that is perhaps the harbinger of
1) a different scale of narrative in the setting
2) changes, even dramatical, in the setting
2b) end of times.

People pointed out analogies, squatting, and other events that already happened, reported personal experiences with their armies, but you and other posters dismissed everything as insanity, even if stuff like End of Times and AoS happened. Talking about ostriches.

And sorry, this is offensive, disrespectful, dismissing, and dismissing is exactly the world I would use to define you last posts in the thread. As the post I just answered to. Or Kronk's one. Just reread yourself.

This dismissing attitude is the same of GW: is a total disrespect of the effort and care people put in certain models and armies. A disrespect that goes from squatting to just price them so badly at the point of being not functional. And people have the right of express doubt, or even rage, when they see certain pattern repeat themselves.

Squatting and retconning/revamping entire armies is not something that happens in recent years. When was the last time that happened? They're not removing armies, they've been re-releasing and adding them at a steady rate. Maybe the one you could argue is Black Templars getting rolled into Space Marines, so one example out of how many armies against many getting added and new supplements for sub-factions being added?

Tomb Kings, Bretonnia? Entire games, WHFB? There is not only 40k.

Pointing to things that happened 10 years ago is not an indicator of what is happening now. It especially does not help your point if you ignore the positive trend of the past two years and scream at anyone who points out the positive parts. Focusing only on the negative and claiming your position as truth without taking into account all facts, good and bad, makes your position seem shaky at best, and does not help you when you use that position to attack other people.

I do not use the position to attack, but to defend from dismissing refusals. People stated that they do not like what they see, and were treated with contempt. I scream at GW, not at you, unless you treat me with contempt.
Said that, the trend of the recent period could look better in some aspect (I concede this happily); some news are or have been fantastic (mechanicus, possibily sisters) but then we still have, say, a book with Ork formations that fix nothing, or CSM with the book number four(!!!!) still barely functional. Yes we have seen great stuff, but we are still seeing this erratic behaviour betraying a lack of vision, and of sense of scale and scope.

And, again, you cannot compare 40k to WHFB/End Times/AoS. WHFB was a sinking ship. According to the reports, it was selling less than paint. It was dying, and they put it down in a big old event and then created something new. Whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant to the discussion. 40k is not a sinking ship. They're selling the new models by the truckload. It's not in the same place as WHFB, and there is no evidence to say that they are even thinking of going the same route. To claim so is fallacious.

I think that when discussing in front of a court the Chapterhouse thing, GW gave greater numbers that that for WHFB? Am I wrong? I genuinely ask here. Still, your point is valid that even in that case, 40k is a bigger beast to be put down. I still see two problems:

1) These games need a community. GW is selling less boxes at higher price, right? Correct me if I am wrong. Slowly, the game is bleeding customers. How good is in acquiring new ones? What is the demographic of the bigger spenders? How much is this sustainable? Is producing such huge volume of stuff but do not maintaining an "healthy" game dangerous, leading to potential bubbles? If you have a bigger range of products, the bleeding customers could have a bigger effect on you. In other words, I am doubting the true health of the game, and how much we can predict from a trend a big bubble bursting (think LotR).

2) this one is for you, since is genuinely paranoid *puts tin foil hat*: these new campaign manuals with "codex expansions", are just parroting of Privateer in my opinion. Warmahordes looks like this. You have a core manual, then faction manuals (codices in 40k), but, too, expansion containing rules for many factions at once (campaigns in 40k) Now look at the recent trend of formations and mixing up armies, even unbound. Think about AoS, doing the same (somehow). GW thinks that army lists (and points too, up to some time ago) can forbid people from buying their plastic crack.
I just wonder if someone observed that Warmachine and Hordes are compatible, and planned to merge the systems with a future reboot.

Said this, yes, AoS now has a comp, and smaller specialistic games are coming back - somehow. We see the reprints. There is a change of direction and probably even if my crazy (you can say that is crazy) point 2 was a possibility, it would not be longer true.

 kronk wrote:
"Look at this awesome miniature!"

"Oh, god, they're ruining the fluff!"

"But, it's pretty!"

"The end is nigh! You're all sheeple! Wake up!"

"I just want to paint gak and play games..."

"You're ruining everything!"

It's like listening to a teenager being asked to take out the trash and then have to listen to how the baby boomers are killing the whales for gasoline...

Exalted, best post ITT by a mile. Notice the same handful of users pop up in any of these threads to gripe and crap on peoples excitement, most of whom stopped playing 5-10 years ago.

]Well I just noticed his foot is on a ?contemptor?dreadnought arm in the pic. So we thinking MC or GMC for him?

 ekwatts wrote:
How dare GW produce new miniatures for us.

How very dare they.

Seriously, they introduce something like a stormtalon, or thunderwolves or what not and these guys gripe because it wasn't there before. They give us something new that is supposed to be in the story and they are destroying their suspension of disbelief and shattering the precious fluff. Seriously, nothing about 40k fluff is remotely original, makes me pause that so many people put it so high up on a pedestal like it were Shakespeare and we were about to change the ending to Hamlet here.

Requizen wrote:
This thread is full of the most ridiculous doomsaying and rambling I've seen in a long time.

Primarchs returning is not the end of the world. 40k is not in the state that WHFB was before the End Times (and even GW of two years ago wouldn't be stupid enough to do another End Times after that fiasco). Bad things in a company's past does not mean that everything they do will be bad, nor do good actions mean that all their new ideas and releases will be perfect.

I don't hold any illusions that GW is infallable or that they won't screw up. But saying that Primarchs returning will destroy the setting as we know it is completely absurd.

Things will be fine. The status quo will remain because it always does, with minor fluff changes and maybe (hopefully) a return to the old alliance chart where DA are not best buds with SW.

Who ever said that it will completely destroy the 40k setting ??? At least, before trying to ridicule persons you should have the decency of reading (or the capacity of understanding) what they are actually saying. What was said is that it will seriously alter the setting. Which it will. Whether or not you like it is entirely subjective, but claiming this as a minor change is either trolling, or based on a lack of knowledge about the setting.