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Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot






Canada

 ThirstySpaceMan wrote:
Well I just noticed his foot is on a dreadnought arm in the pic. So we thinking MC or GMC for him?


I would be shocked if he wasn't a GMC

6000 pts
2000 pts
2500 pts
3000 pts

"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"

"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..." 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard




 Kaiyanwang wrote:

Tomb Kings, Bretonnia? Entire games, WHFB? There is not only 40k.

Again, and as you conceded, 40k is not WHFB. Squatting entire armies when nobody is buying them is one thing. Introducing armies and putting out new models for their armies and creating entire supplements around them only to squat them is not going to happen. Yes, I know Brettonians and Tomb Kings played a big part in End Times and then were removed. Again, that is not comparable, for reasons listed. There is no indication that any army in 40k is getting squatted. With the "Plastic Sisters" rumors and the Made To Order bringing back old models, the actual opposite is happening.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
I do not use the position to attack, but to defend from dismissing refusals. People stated that they do not like what they see, and were treated with contempt. I scream at GW, not at you, unless you treat me with contempt.
Said that, the trend of the recent period could look better in some aspect (I concede this happily); some news are or have been fantastic (mechanicus, possibily sisters) but then we still have, say, a book with Ork formations that fix nothing, or CSM with the book number four(!!!!) still barely functional. Yes we have seen great stuff, but we are still seeing this erratic behaviour betraying a lack of vision, and of sense of scale and scope.


Of course it's not all perfect. I was excited for the CSM module, only to have it not be anything actually useful. I was interested in Deathwatch, only to have it be underwhelming. I'm not putting GW on a pedestal and making them into a perfect company, but the ideas and a good portion of the execution has been good, and I'm not about to write off any potential change as terrible when they are clearly not going in that direction. That's all. They still feth up a bunch and end up with crappy situations, but not malaciously and I don't think their direction would put them in a position that ends the setting as a whole. But I don't think that should give people clearance to cherrypick the bad portions and claim the sky is falling.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
I think that when discussing in front of a court the Chapterhouse thing, GW gave greater numbers that that for WHFB? Am I wrong? I genuinely ask here. Still, your point is valid that even in that case, 40k is a bigger beast to be put down. I still see two problems:

1) These games need a community. GW is selling less boxes at higher price, right? Correct me if I am wrong. Slowly, the game is bleeding customers. How good is in acquiring new ones? What is the demographic of the bigger spenders? How much is this sustainable? Is producing such huge volume of stuff but do not maintaining an "healthy" game dangerous, leading to potential bubbles? If you have a bigger range of products, the bleeding customers could have a bigger effect on you. In other words, I am doubting the true health of the game, and how much we can predict from a trend a big bubble bursting (think LotR).

2) this one is for you, since is genuinely paranoid *puts tin foil hat*: these new campaign manuals with "codex expansions", are just parroting of Privateer in my opinion. Warmahordes looks like this. You have a core manual, then faction manuals (codices in 40k), but, too, expansion containing rules for many factions at once (campaigns in 40k) Now look at the recent trend of formations and mixing up armies, even unbound. Think about AoS, doing the same (somehow). GW thinks that army lists (and points too, up to some time ago) can forbid people from buying their plastic crack.
I just wonder if someone observed that Warmachine and Hordes are compatible, and planned to merge the systems with a future reboot.

Said this, yes, AoS now has a comp, and smaller specialistic games are coming back - somehow. We see the reprints. There is a change of direction and probably even if my crazy (you can say that is crazy) point 2 was a possibility, it would not be longer true.


I don't know the true financial reports, just what we've been told by reliable sources and GW themselves. Nothing indicates 40k is in trouble any more than it has been for the past several years.

As for point 2 - that's not how I see it. I'm seeing the good portions of AoS: Warscrolls instead of Codices allow them to release and update models without needing a massive codex to do so. I would honestly like 40k to go in that direction, allowing them to do things like, say, increase the cost of Eldar units without putting out a 8e codex for them. But, again looking at good stuff from AoS, then using codices and supplements to release missions, formations, etc. That would be a very positive change in my book, and honestly I think it's going in that direction - we have a lot of campaigns and supplements lately that have the formations/detachments but no dataslates. It would be great if 8e dropped and they made all the units' rules free online but encouraged people to buy the books for the extra stuff. I'd be with that 100%.

So maybe my fantasy is just as unrealistic as yours, but positive.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






 foostick wrote:
People don't like the miniature - that's grand, it's not going to be for everyone. I personally like it but if you think he's a big ugly red beastie that you'd not want on your shelf that's absolutely fine, it makes the world so much more interesting.

What I cannot wrap my head around is the model becoming an avatar for a hypothetical scenario that may or may not happen. This is one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever seen on here.



Which hypothetical scenario ? THe loyalist will come back. It was said by the same rumour moungers that correctly predicted the coming of Magnus.

lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039 
   
Made in ca
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
 ThirstySpaceMan wrote:
Well I just noticed his foot is on a dreadnought arm in the pic. So we thinking MC or GMC for him?


I would be shocked if he wasn't a GMC


I personally will be shocked if he is a gmc. I expect FMC, T6, mastery level 4.

7500 pts Chaos Daemons 
   
Made in be
Wicked Warp Spider





Requizen wrote:


As for point 2 - that's not how I see it. I'm seeing the good portions of AoS: Warscrolls instead of Codices allow them to release and update models without needing a massive codex to do so. I would honestly like 40k to go in that direction, allowing them to do things like, say, increase the cost of Eldar units without putting out a 8e codex for them. But, again looking at good stuff from AoS, then using codices and supplements to release missions, formations, etc. That would be a very positive change in my book, and honestly I think it's going in that direction - we have a lot of campaigns and supplements lately that have the formations/detachments but no dataslates. It would be great if 8e dropped and they made all the units' rules free online but encouraged people to buy the books for the extra stuff. I'd be with that 100%.

So maybe my fantasy is just as unrealistic as yours, but positive.


I can appreciate the model: modularity is a good thing, it remembers me a discussion I had about DnD 4th edition, I did not like the system but I admitted that sub-dividing stuff like class features in sub-parts allows fixes less "painful" because you need to alterate smaller parts of the rules (albeit it can increase bookeeping) if something is not working.

Yes, digital, even with a subscription, would fix that. I agree.

But I ask: GW looks like cutting costs in some corner, do the designers are good enough, or not too much overworked, to approach such a thing professionally?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/12 15:14:16


Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis! 
   
Made in us
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 streetsamurai wrote:
 foostick wrote:
People don't like the miniature - that's grand, it's not going to be for everyone. I personally like it but if you think he's a big ugly red beastie that you'd not want on your shelf that's absolutely fine, it makes the world so much more interesting.

What I cannot wrap my head around is the model becoming an avatar for a hypothetical scenario that may or may not happen. This is one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever seen on here.



Which hypothetical scenario ? THe loyalist will come back. It was said by the same rumour moungers that correctly predicted the coming of Magnus.


But don't stop their because those SAME rumor mongers said the timeline would only shift slightly and that the end times would still not occur. This is why half the thread is doing this in your direction

   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Red Corsair wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
How dare GW produce new miniatures for us.

How very dare they.


Seriously, they introduce something like a stormtalon, or thunderwolves or what not and these guys gripe because it wasn't there before. They give us something new that is supposed to be in the story and they are destroying their suspension of disbelief and shattering the precious fluff. Seriously, nothing about 40k fluff is remotely original, makes me pause that so many people put it so high up on a pedestal like it were Shakespeare and we were about to change the ending to Hamlet here.


So according to you, fans of the setting should accept any changes GW deems appropriate?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Red Corsair wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
 foostick wrote:
People don't like the miniature - that's grand, it's not going to be for everyone. I personally like it but if you think he's a big ugly red beastie that you'd not want on your shelf that's absolutely fine, it makes the world so much more interesting.

What I cannot wrap my head around is the model becoming an avatar for a hypothetical scenario that may or may not happen. This is one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever seen on here.



Which hypothetical scenario ? THe loyalist will come back. It was said by the same rumour moungers that correctly predicted the coming of Magnus.


But don't stop their because those SAME rumor mongers said the timeline would only shift slightly and that the end times would still not occur. This is why half the thread is doing this in your direction



Bringing back the loyalist primarchs vastly change the setting. It is not a minor change like adding TW cavalry. It changes the basic tenet of 40k

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/12 15:15:40


lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard




 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Requizen wrote:


As for point 2 - that's not how I see it. I'm seeing the good portions of AoS: Warscrolls instead of Codices allow them to release and update models without needing a massive codex to do so. I would honestly like 40k to go in that direction, allowing them to do things like, say, increase the cost of Eldar units without putting out a 8e codex for them. But, again looking at good stuff from AoS, then using codices and supplements to release missions, formations, etc. That would be a very positive change in my book, and honestly I think it's going in that direction - we have a lot of campaigns and supplements lately that have the formations/detachments but no dataslates. It would be great if 8e dropped and they made all the units' rules free online but encouraged people to buy the books for the extra stuff. I'd be with that 100%.

So maybe my fantasy is just as unrealistic as yours, but positive.


I can appreciate the model: modularity is a good thing, it remembers me a discussion I had about DnD 4th edition, I did not like the system but I admitted that sub-dividing stuff like class features in sub-parts allows fixes less "painful" because you need to alterate smaller parts of the rules (albeit it can increase bookeeping) if something is not working.

Yes, digital, even with a subscription, would fix that. I agree.

But I ask: GW looks like cutting costs in some corner, do the designers are good enough, or not too much overworked, to approach such a thing professionally?


It's a good question. They still feel like they're getting accustomed to this whole "internet thing". It has potential, and the AoS app has been a big success (at least in my irl/internet circles) at getting people to take a look at the game. No saying whether they'll go that route or not. And no saying that if they do, they'll do it right. Remember when they tried to make Skyhammer a formation that you could only get if you bought the internet bundle? Yeah, that was a nightmare. But, we'll see.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 streetsamurai wrote:

So according to you, fans of the setting should accept any changes GW deems appropriate?

No, but neither should they assume that anything they do is going to ruin the game for them.

And in the end, it's their story and setting. We can give feedback or even outcries, but if you want to keep playing in it, then yeah you have to accept their final decision. Or walk away. I don't agree with every direction they make, but it is their property, not mine.

[
 streetsamurai wrote:

Bringing back the loyalist primarchs vastly change the setting. It is not a minor change like adding TW cavalry. It changes the basic tenet of 40k

Disagree. 40k will still be a crapshoot world. Primarchs will be a candle of hope in the mile-long mire of death, decay, and destruction, a light that's matched by the shadow cast by Daemon Primarchs. In the end, it doesn't change much other than having some new, pretty models that people can choose to use.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/12 15:21:51


 
   
Made in ca
[DCM]
Acolyte of Goodwin






Sunny SoCal

People should really stop yelling at other people that they like chocolate more than vanilla. Each person gets to like what they like, it is not dismissive to have a different preference. It is however pointless and rude to think your personal choice applies to everyone.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/12 15:28:57


   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





UK



Suck it up losers!

It's not Magnus....

https://regimental-standard.com/2016/10/12/daemonic-cyclops-the-truth-exposed/

...it's a sun burnt Ogryn!! With an eye patch.

   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator





Liverpool!

 Red Corsair wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
 foostick wrote:
People don't like the miniature - that's grand, it's not going to be for everyone. I personally like it but if you think he's a big ugly red beastie that you'd not want on your shelf that's absolutely fine, it makes the world so much more interesting.

What I cannot wrap my head around is the model becoming an avatar for a hypothetical scenario that may or may not happen. This is one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever seen on here.



Which hypothetical scenario ? THe loyalist will come back. It was said by the same rumour moungers that correctly predicted the coming of Magnus.


But don't stop their because those SAME rumor mongers said the timeline would only shift slightly and that the end times would still not occur. This is why half the thread is doing this in your direction


This - so we get Loyalist Primarchs back and the Daemon Primarchs are now a tabletop reality.

The hypothetical scenario I refer to is a massive retooling of everything that takes us from our current 11:59:00 setting on the clock to the one where some of the overly negative posters on here are conviced is going to leave us at 11:59:59 with the Emperor dead and everyone else dead and buried.

The above is possible, though unlikely in my opinion. To continue the clock analogy I imagine we're about to see the setting jump one or two second forward to 11:59:02. So we're not at one whole minute to midnight, more like 58 seconds.

Let's consider it in-world, you're the High Lords of Terra - you call the shots. You're the boss(es) and everyone does what you say and then all of a sudden between 1-6 ancient legends of history return to the universe at large. Are you happy, probably not? You're more likely to put a happy face on it but in reality you don't want to to erode your power base.

The Primarchs will likely reunite with their first founding chapters and their successors - they're going to be on the front lines fighting because the war they were made for is still being waged - they can't become diplomats and rulers like the Emperor had in mind for them. So what does that give us, really?

More powerful Chaos/Loyalist characters on the tabletop and a few more pages of background in Codices to cover their return.

However, the universe is a big place - does Guilliman returning mean a massive amount to a Chapter fighting out on the fringes? It may give their morale a boost but they don't benefit from it in the long run as they're still fighting the same battle they were before.



Everyone's entitled to their views and opinions, I genuinely find them all very interesting. What is frustrating me is the certainty with which people have decided it's all going to be garbage. It will definitely not be to everyone's taste but why not wait and see just what is actually going to happen and then criticise it rather than collectively lose minds now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/12 15:29:15


"We are the Red Sorcerers of Prospero, damned in the eyes of our fellows, and this is to be how our story ends, in betrayal and bloodshed. No...you may find it nobler to suffer your fate, but I will take arms against it." 
   
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-






-

 BrookM wrote:
But that's Dakka for ya!



...if we're lucky, maybe someone will do an hour and a half YouTube review of this thread?

MEANWHILE...

RULE #1 EVERYONE, PLEASE!

The only 'appropriate' response to a post that you think breaks the rules of this site is to report it - 'responding in kind' or attempting to 'fight fire with fire' is a no go.

   
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 streetsamurai wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
How dare GW produce new miniatures for us.

How very dare they.


Seriously, they introduce something like a stormtalon, or thunderwolves or what not and these guys gripe because it wasn't there before. They give us something new that is supposed to be in the story and they are destroying their suspension of disbelief and shattering the precious fluff. Seriously, nothing about 40k fluff is remotely original, makes me pause that so many people put it so high up on a pedestal like it were Shakespeare and we were about to change the ending to Hamlet here.


So according to you, fans of the setting should accept any changes GW deems appropriate?


Yeah, or don't. Forge your own narrative if you don't like the one the *creators of the universe* are forging for you.
   
Made in be
Wicked Warp Spider







[EXPUNGED FROM ARCHIVES]

EDIT: The mod posted when I was writing. Let's stop this.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/10/12 15:53:38


Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis! 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

I do love it when a mod posts and about two posts later someone carries on a tiny war. Le sigh.

No new news then?

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Jacksmiles wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
How dare GW produce new miniatures for us.

How very dare they.


Seriously, they introduce something like a stormtalon, or thunderwolves or what not and these guys gripe because it wasn't there before. They give us something new that is supposed to be in the story and they are destroying their suspension of disbelief and shattering the precious fluff. Seriously, nothing about 40k fluff is remotely original, makes me pause that so many people put it so high up on a pedestal like it were Shakespeare and we were about to change the ending to Hamlet here.


So according to you, fans of the setting should accept any changes GW deems appropriate?


Yeah, or don't. Forge your own narrative if you don't like the one the *creators of the universe* are forging for you.


Yeah, that's the cute answer, but honestly, it is not easy to find players that will join your alternate, unofficial universe.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/12 15:51:44


lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

 ThirstySpaceMan wrote:
Well I just noticed his foot is on a ?contemptor?dreadnought arm in the pic. So we thinking MC or GMC for him?


Someone posted earlier that it's an arm from a space wolf (grey) contemptor dreadnought. I can't unsee that, now, so it's probably right.

I would guess MC, but GMC would be fine by me. He's a gosh darn Primarch, after all. Even before he became a Daemon, he could grow to the size of an Eldar Titan (In the novel, Thousand Sons).

DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

I'm thinking that's a GMC. In terms of scale, he's about 8 times the size of that dreadnought arm. It's going to be roughly twice the size of a Daemon Prince.

How about rules? Figuring he's going to have ML 5, need to roll all his powers from the Tzeentch discipline, T5, a 5+ invulnerable save, and cost around 1400 points.

You know, because Thousand Sons are always overcosted and easy to kill.

   
Made in us
RogueSangre





The Cockatrice Malediction

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
 ThirstySpaceMan wrote:
Well I just noticed his foot is on a dreadnought arm in the pic. So we thinking MC or GMC for him?


I would be shocked if he wasn't a GMC


I personally will be shocked if he is a gmc. I expect FMC, T6, mastery level 4.

And 999 pts. He'll sell so poorly they'll cancel the Leman Russ model.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




He'll likely just be the CSM equivalent to a Knight. If that's the case, I don't know what the would mean for the loyalist primarchs though.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




What sucks is GW won't even talk about magnus or thousand sons to their retailers or local game stores. Their stance is he doesn't exist.
   
Made in nl
Deadshot Weapon Moderati






AncientSkarbrand wrote:
 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
 ThirstySpaceMan wrote:
Well I just noticed his foot is on a dreadnought arm in the pic. So we thinking MC or GMC for him?


I would be shocked if he wasn't a GMC


I personally will be shocked if he is a gmc. I expect FMC, T6, mastery level 4.


What point cost would he be for FMC T6 level 4? You can almost buy that in the form of a daemon prince for about 300 points. I wouldnt be surprised if Magnus is 500+ points, FGC, mastery level 9 (tzeentch number?) or 6 or something, with a bunch of special psyker rules and a 2++. Maybe even have his own set of custom powers. I might be a bit too hopeful, but I really hope they do the daemon primarchs right (and from the model, so far they are on the right track).
   
Made in ca
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





 M0ff3l wrote:
AncientSkarbrand wrote:
 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
 ThirstySpaceMan wrote:
Well I just noticed his foot is on a dreadnought arm in the pic. So we thinking MC or GMC for him?


I would be shocked if he wasn't a GMC


I personally will be shocked if he is a gmc. I expect FMC, T6, mastery level 4.


What point cost would he be for FMC T6 level 4? You can almost buy that in the form of a daemon prince for about 300 points. I wouldnt be surprised if Magnus is 500+ points, FGC, mastery level 9 (tzeentch number?) or 6 or something, with a bunch of special psyker rules and a 2++. Maybe even have his own set of custom powers. I might be a bit too hopeful, but I really hope they do the daemon primarchs right (and from the model, so far they are on the right track).


The model is great, yes. The reason i don't expect gmc status or higher than ML4 simply because there's no precedent for a chaos gmc or a psyker greater than level 4. Although i guess there's no precedent for a daemon primarch in the game either.

I don't think they will get too crazy with the mastery level, personally. If anything he may simply be able to harness warp charge on a 3+ or something and be able to cast the same witchfire every turn. Special rules can do alot for a unit in their own right.

Honestly, i can hardly guess at his rules. I just dont expect a gmc, simply because it would be very powerful with the gmc rules. We all know he will be able to be boosted to an absurd invuln save already.

In terms of points, i expect a number that will make it difficult to flesh out a list around him in standard games. Something around 700-800 points or so.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/12 16:44:08


7500 pts Chaos Daemons 
   
Made in us
RogueSangre





The Cockatrice Malediction

 foostick wrote:
The hypothetical scenario I refer to is a massive retooling of everything that takes us from our current 11:59:00 setting on the clock to the one where some of the overly negative posters on here are conviced is going to leave us at 11:59:59 with the Emperor dead and everyone else dead and buried.

The above is possible, though unlikely in my opinion. To continue the clock analogy I imagine we're about to see the setting jump one or two second forward to 11:59:02. So we're not at one whole minute to midnight, more like 58 seconds.

But I don't want my setting to advance to 11:59:02! That will ruin everything! I like my 40k firmly rooted at 11:58:00, the most metal of all minutes to midnight.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

Davor wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:They've already ruined the setting for me. The Newcrons fluff overwrote the history I found most compelling in the setting and sapped my motivation for three of my army projects. Then the Tyranid Narvhal codex made my favorite faction...kind of stupid and out of character. Yes, I still have the old books, but that doesn't make the fluff I loved not feel dead. And that was a minor change that many fans don't believe actually affected the setting. If GW advances the timeline, they run a huge risk of killing their customers' interest. If the reward is just selling us a few more big models, well they were doing that anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It would be like making a sequel to Star Wars where everything the characters fought for had deteriorated offscreen to a handful of easily-destroyed planets and negative character growth, and the villains were just the scrapings at the bottom of the barrel. Surely, you can see how permanently damaging the setting by removing the "happy ever after" and installing mediocrity could ruin a franchise?


Or make a billion dollars. Maybe that one.


So do you like your Tyranids with metal guns, machinery, personality and individual character? If not then you have nothing to complain about.



Hive Fleet Horror is the definitive Tyranid story to me. This was before they were the Hungry Hungry Space Bugs. Old Rogue Trader era fluff had an unfinished quality to it, but I love the Zoats and Deathwing-era genestealer fluff. Tyranids always had individuals, just like Necrons, but they weren't the focus the way space marine heroes were...until 5th edition and later. I dislike Tyranids who only care about mindless nom-noms, who use some stupid third form of FTL that reduces their speed/menace and connection to the setting. I feel that Xenology was where the fluff peaked, with some of the bleakest tone yet the most glittering mysteries. Since then, the fluff has degraded.

It's the same issue the old ork fans have with the 'new' fungus Orks. The background is different, and for some people that difference is enough to make them stop caring.

A lot of fans like the post-5th fluff, and that's fine, but it is to ally very different from what came before. If the timeline advances, all the people who like the current fluff might find themselves cast as the grumpy old grognards who just don't get the new and 'improved' setting. It is a risk that GW takes if they make any changes.

And while it might be neat to find out what Leman Russ has been up to, what Cypher wants, and the answers to all the other plot hooks left open in the setting, I suspect the long term effect on the setting will be like Lost's final episode's long term effect on that series' fan base. "Yes, I remember obsessing for years. No, I don't need to rewatch the show. No, I don't want to talk about it."

   
Made in nl
Deadshot Weapon Moderati






AncientSkarbrand wrote:


The model is great, yes. The reason i don't expect gmc status or higher than ML4 simply because there's no precedent for a chaos gmc or a psyker greater than level 4. Although i guess there's no precedent for a daemon primarch in the game either.

I don't think they will get too crazy with the mastery level, personally. If anything he may simply be able to harness warp charge on a 3+ or something and be able to cast the same witchfire every turn. Special rules can do alot for a unit in their own right.

Honestly, i can hardly guess at his rules. I just dont expect a gmc, simply because it would be very powerful with the gmc rules. We all know he will be able to be boosted to an absurd invuln save already.

In terms of points, i expect a number that will make it difficult to flesh out a list around him in standard games. Something around 700-800 points or so.


I think that if they would price him anywhere near double the price of a wraith knight or knight titan they should give him GMC/FGC or if they do make him a FMC they should atleast give him some form of special rules that stop him from being decimated by D weapons etc. I also think he will get some strength D psychic power and some other crazy strong blessings/maledictions. I would be kinda sad if they made him 999 points (which would be inline with the Lord of Skulls) and then have him be another sub par LoW choice for chaos. I guess only time can tell tho.

   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




What I really want to know is which loyalist will appear to challenge Magnus? Sad Panda says not Russ. If it's Dorn that explains why they went to the trouble of explaining 'The Last Wall Protocol' in the Beast Arises books and had Vulkan drop the 'I'll tell Dorn when I see him' line
   
Made in ca
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





It seems like they like overpricing chaos LOW's. The cost of a wraithknight is quite frankly ridiculous and i don't expect them to give chaos the same treatment with magnus.

I don't want them to either, as that would make him an auto include and then we would start getting the eldar treatment from other players. At the same time he has to be priced competitively or not alot of people will buy the model. As was said, he can't be too much better than a LOC without being very costly and very durable. The synergy with the grimoire and other durability boosting methods will also need to be considered by the design team.

The worst thing in my eyes would be giving him a warlord trait or something that boosts all thousand son units in the army, because then you will rarely see a tsons list without him and every game would be "can you kill magnus + friends?". A unit like Magnus would be hard to write rules for, trying to hit that sweet spot while still making him as obscenely powerful as is expected by the community.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/12 17:33:02


7500 pts Chaos Daemons 
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




Spoiler:
 streetsamurai wrote:
Jacksmiles wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
How dare GW produce new miniatures for us.

How very dare they.


Seriously, they introduce something like a stormtalon, or thunderwolves or what not and these guys gripe because it wasn't there before. They give us something new that is supposed to be in the story and they are destroying their suspension of disbelief and shattering the precious fluff. Seriously, nothing about 40k fluff is remotely original, makes me pause that so many people put it so high up on a pedestal like it were Shakespeare and we were about to change the ending to Hamlet here.


So according to you, fans of the setting should accept any changes GW deems appropriate?


Yeah, or don't. Forge your own narrative if you don't like the one the *creators of the universe* are forging for you.


Yeah, that's the cute answer, but honestly, it is not easy to find players that will join your alternate, unofficial universe.


Then I guess you're stuck playing the universe they make. Others do the aforementioned making their army from their alternate, unofficial universe, then playing against official-universe ones. Not everyone is going to have the models that ruin the fluff for you anyway. Don't really know what to tell you, other than accept it or not, whatever changes they make happen. If it's that upsetting, look for those people that will join your alternate universe. They may not be easy to find, but they still might exist. It's both a cute answer and the real answer, too!

Be sour all you want, the future looks SWEET
   
Made in nl
Deadshot Weapon Moderati






AncientSkarbrand wrote:
It seems like they like overpricing chaos LOW's. The cost of a wraithknight is quite frankly ridiculous and i don't expect them to give chaos the same treatment with magnus.

I don't want them to either, as that would make him an auto include and then we would start getting the eldar treatment from other players. At the same time he has to be priced competitively or not alot of people will buy the model. As was said, he can't be too much better than a LOC without being very costly and very durable. The synergy with the grimoire and other durability boosting methods will also need to be considered by the design team.

The worst thing in my eyes would be giving him a warlord trait or something that boosts all thousand son units in the army, because then you will rarely see a tsons list without him. A unit like Magnus would be hard to write rules for, trying to hit that sweet spot while still making him as obscenely powerful as is expected by the community.


I feel like eldar has been 'that army' for far longer than that they have had a under priced overpowered wraith knight. Giving chaos 1 good awesome unit (that they can only field one of and not multiples mind you) would not make them eldar level of busted. I also think that if they price him semi competitively at around 500 ish, give or take, he would still not be an auto include in all armies. I also think that if we eventually get all 4 primarchs, and they have a special rule where you can only ever field one of them, it would be a nice diversity. Like yeah most 1850 chaos armies would include a daemon primarch, but they can still choose from 4, and they would all be very different. It wouldnt be like knight titans and wraith knights which are pretty much the same in every army.

I kinda disagree on you with the thousand sons thing. I feel like all daemon primarchs should have something like 'iconic leader, units with the mark of chaos that this primarch has gain X bonus'. Yeah all Tsons armies would use him, but really, who here who plays Tsons wouldnt want to play the daemon primarch of the legion?
   
 
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