Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Swampmist wrote:
Are the psychic powers really that good? Besides the re-roll succesful denies thing I'm not really scared of most of these. Especially if the +2 invuln is self only, which I expect it may be.

Even if it is self-only, the new faq allows self-only buffs to go to the rest of a Brotherhood of Psykers.

Do we know that they are though? Nothing has indocated that anything but maybe the 3-man sorc box would be a brotherhood :/

 Swampmist wrote:
Do we know that they are though? Nothing has indocated that anything but maybe the 3-man sorc box would be a brotherhood :/

According to the rumours that came along with the psychic powers rumours the TS and scarab terminators will have aspiring sorcerors rather than the brotherhood of psykers.

Makes sense overall.

Its the exalted sorceress that peak my interest. Just how above regular sorcerers will the be?
If the got no spell familiar I might facepalm so hard my paint will chip off.

so is it true

 BoomWolf wrote:
Makes sense overall.

Its the exalted sorceress that peak my interest. Just how above regular sorcerers will the be?
If the got no spell familiar I might facepalm so hard my paint will chip off.

Wow, I've only just realised that they are refered to as exalted.
Could it be mastery level 4?
Could it be harness warpcharge on a 3+?
Or could it be warpflame on all attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LightKing wrote:
so is it true

Spoiler:

that the spoiler is Logan dies, and the Wolves are destroyed/Fenris burns?

We can only hope.

when does this book come out?

LightKing wrote:
when does this book come out?

Pre orders are this saturday and releases on the 3rd of December.

 pretre wrote:

lonewolf81 wrote:
Tha same guy also said the following
"" Formations are, unsurprisingly, organized into a greater detachment that includes a collection of smaller ones.
Black Crusade Detachment: (1+ Core, 1-10 Auxiliary, 0-3 Exalted Champions)
*** Lord of the Black Crusade: Your Warlord can roll for a second warlord trait, rerolling any duplicates.
*** Dark Ascension: Characters in this detachment make a free roll on the Boon table at the start of the game, rerolling any results of Spawndom or Dark Apotheosis. The result of this roll applies for the rest of the game""

Which appeared in traitors hate 6 months later.

just saying...

Okay, so I looked into this.

His rumor

Spoiler:

PENDING Chaos Marine Rumors - Dec 2015

Black Crusade Detachment: (1+ Core, 1-10 Auxiliary, 0-3 Exalted Champions)
*** Lord of the Black Crusade: Your Warlord can roll for a second warlord trait, rerolling any duplicates.
*** Dark Ascension: Characters in this detachment make a free roll on the Boon table at the start of the game, rerolling any results of Spawndom or Dark Apotheosis. The result of this roll applies for the rest of the game.

Compare this to the actual rules:

Spoiler:

Black Crusade Detachment

Force Organization

Command: 0-5 of the following Chaos Lord, Sorcerer, Daemon Prince

Core: 1+ Choas Warband Formation, Maelstrom of Gore Formation, The Lost and the Damned Formation

Auxiliary: 1+ Helforged Warpack Formation, Heldrake Terror Pack Formation, Cult of Destruction Formation, Fist of the Gods Formation, Raptor Talon Formaiton, Terminator Annihilation Force Formation, Favoured of the Chaos Formation, Trinity of Blood Formation, 1-3 Chaos Spawn Units, 1-4 uits from the following list Khorne Berzerkers, Thousand Sons, Plague Marines, Noise Marines.

Restrictions: This Detachment must include a minimum of one Core choice and one Auxiliary choice. It can optionally include any number of additional Core or Auxiliary choices, in any combination, and up to five Command choices. Only the datasheets listed here can be included in this Detachment, and all units in the Detachment must have the Chaos Space Marines Faction.

Command Benefits:

Lords of Chaos: If this Detachment is chosen as your Primary Detachment, you can chose to re-roll the result of the Chaos Space Marines Warlord Traits tables.

Death to the False Emperor: All units in this Detachment have the Hatred (Armies of the Imperium) special rule. In addition, any unit from this Detachment that has the option of taking the Veterans of the Long War special rule can do so for free.

Path to Glory: At the start of each friendly turn choose a model in this Detachment with the Champion of Chaos special rule and roll on the Chaos Boon table. The model has that result for the rest of the game. If the model has the Favoured Scions special rule, roll twice and apply one or both results

Source: Supplement: Traitor’s Hate

So looking at that formation he posted:

RUMOR: Black Crusade Detachment: (1+ Core, 1-10 Auxiliary, 0-3 Exalted Champions)
REALITY: Black Crusade Detachment: (1+ Core, 1+ Big List of specific Aux Choices, 1-3 Spawn, 1-4 Cult Troops, 0-5 Command)
RESULT: FALSE

RUMOR: *** Lord of the Black Crusade: Your Warlord can roll for a second warlord trait, rerolling any duplicates.
REALITY: Lords of Chaos: If this Detachment is chosen as your Primary Detachment, you can chose to re-roll the result of the Chaos Space Marines Warlord Traits tables.
RESULT: PARTIALLY CORRECT. I mean, he just guessed the most likely Command benefit and even got that wrong.

RUMOR: *** Dark Ascension: Characters in this detachment make a free roll on the Boon table at the start of the game, rerolling any results of Spawndom or Dark Apotheosis. The result of this roll applies for the rest of the game.
REALITY: Path to Glory: At the start of each friendly turn choose a model in this Detachment with the Champion of Chaos special rule and roll on the Chaos Boon table. The model has that result for the rest of the game. If the model has the Favoured Scions special rule, roll twice and apply one or both results
RESULT: FALSE. He got that it was a Boon command trait, but not wasn't really that close.

RUMOR: No further details
REALITY: Death to the False Emperor: All units in this Detachment have the Hatred (Armies of the Imperium) special rule. In addition, any unit from this Detachment that has the option of taking the Veterans of the Long War special rule can do so for free.
RESULT: He didn't even get this one.

To be fair there were 10 auxiliary choices, so he was partially correct with them all

Liberame wrote:
To be fair there were 10 auxiliary choices, so he was partially correct with them all

Helforged Warpack Formation,
Heldrake Terror Pack Formation,
Cult of Destruction Formation,
Fist of the Gods Formation,
Raptor Talon Formaiton,
Terminator Annihilation Force Formation,
Favoured of the Chaos Formation,
Trinity of Blood Formation,
Chaos Spawn Units
Khorne Berzerkers,
Thousand Sons,
Plague Marines,
Noise Marines.

That's 8 different aux formations, 13 if you count the Spawn and Cults as aux formations.

 pretre wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
Are the psychic powers really that good? Besides the re-roll succesful denies thing I'm not really scared of most of these. Especially if the +2 invuln is self only, which I expect it may be.

Even if it is self-only, the new faq allows self-only buffs to go to the rest of a Brotherhood of Psykers.

There's no way this is self only, if it's real it's gonna be at least the psykers own unit, and it will be probably the most abusive power in the game. Take Khorne Demonkin, Cabal, and thousand suns, this power replaces the need for grimoire and for Fateweaver so you can take a good chunk of 1ks, possibly magnus and/or ahriman and have this power+reroll saves+ cursed earth pretty easily. So you'd be looking at a 2++ rerollable that does S3 AP3 hits 35 out of 36 times. A unit of anything t3 would kill themselves shooting at it, or even in melee.

If the 1ks are good that power is gonna become the most obnoxious thing in the game, not unbeatable, just REALLY annoying and unfun, even compared to the cheese that's out there now.

My thoughts from the other thread:

If MoT keeps the 'to a maximum of a 3++' and the Primaris only effects the caster, not his unit, it wouldn't actually be broken at all.

Depending on the WC cost, #1 is just the Divination Primaris.
#2 really isn't that big of a deal, it's 1 dice roll per cast for 1 turn. Thet really isn't many re-rolls.
#3 you still need to cast Force to get instant death, so it's only useful if you have a HQ in the squad (unless GW allows the Aspiring Sorcerers to be ML2). If it's at least WC2 it won't be that broken.
#4 randomness everywhere. Could be really strong one turn or really weak the next. Honestly looks to be a pretty naff power imo.
#5 on second read this power doesn't sound as bad as I thought it would be, as it can backfire and cause the cast to perils multiple times if you roll low. It also sounds like you choose the WC cost of the power. So if you make it WC3 you get +3 to your roll. Still powerful, but it can backfire.
#6 a short ranged D beam. again looks like it has a variable cost. That initial -2 means it'll fail to do damage 1/2 the time and it can't get that all-powerful 6 result. Honestly not as broken as it initially seemed to be because of that short range and it being AP-. It'll destroy vehicles, but that's about it. MCs still get an armour save against it.

Really, without WC costs we can't definitely say if any of these apparently leaked powers are pants-on-head broken or not.

where is this rumor that logan dies and fenris gets destroyed?

literally no where have I read that, and its all coming from people just making stuff up

Triszin wrote:
where is this rumor that logan dies and fenris gets destroyed?

literally no where have I read that, and its all coming from people just making stuff up

The Logan dies is just wishfull thinking from a quote that Magnus has killed a wolf lord but is now looking for a bigger prize: Grimnar's head. I am paraphrasing of course.

And the rumour that Fenris gets destroyed is more wishfull thinking.

But still, we can all cross our fingers and hope.

Have preorder date and price of the Traitor Legions book been mentioned or confirmed yet?

Well apparently Magnus has a release date first week of December and he is already up for preorder on Ebay!!!!

Joy

Warhams-77 wrote:
Have preorder date and price of the Traitor Legions book been mentioned or confirmed yet?

All we know about Traitor Legions is that something is happening on the 3rd. Considering that is when everything else is coming out I would wager that is when TL is coming out too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

John D Law wrote:
Well apparently Magnus has a release date first week of December and he is already up for preorder on Ebay!!!!

Joy

Link pls?

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
My thoughts from the other thread:

If MoT keeps the 'to a maximum of a 3++' and the Primaris only effects the caster, not his unit, it wouldn't actually be broken at all.

Depending on the WC cost, #1 is just the Divination Primaris.
#2 really isn't that big of a deal, it's 1 dice roll per cast for 1 turn. Thet really isn't many re-rolls.
#3 you still need to cast Force to get instant death, so it's only useful if you have a HQ in the squad (unless GW allows the Aspiring Sorcerers to be ML2). If it's at least WC2 it won't be that broken.
#4 randomness everywhere. Could be really strong one turn or really weak the next. Honestly looks to be a pretty naff power imo.
#5 on second read this power doesn't sound as bad as I thought it would be, as it can backfire and cause the cast to perils multiple times if you roll low. It also sounds like you choose the WC cost of the power. So if you make it WC3 you get +3 to your roll. Still powerful, but it can backfire.
#6 a short ranged D beam. again looks like it has a variable cost. That initial -2 means it'll fail to do damage 1/2 the time and it can't get that all-powerful 6 result. Honestly not as broken as it initially seemed to be because of that short range and it being AP-. It'll destroy vehicles, but that's about it. MCs still get an armour save against it.

Really, without WC costs we can't definitely say if any of these apparently leaked powers are pants-on-head broken or not.

The primaris is the one I'm worried about, all the other ones are just okay, but the primaris could do some awful gak. If it's squad based and targetable, it'll be busted, if it's just the psyker's unit, it'll be busted, if it's just the psyker, how strong Magnus is will determine how good the power is.

For all the other powers I think warp charge cost could be a deciding factor, for this one it'll be largely irrelevant. If it actually works as a force multiplier it could be WC4 and still be super strong.

Edit: Also try not to rate these powers in a vacuum, they'll almost never be cast as 1 offs. For example, the primaris power combined with the reroll saves power makes that 3++ a nightmare, if it can be cast on an allied unit like Khorne dogs it'll be a huge pain and at the end of the day magnus will be able to cast all of these and there's a 0% chamce he won't have some hardcore perils protection.

Compared to the current Tzeentch discipline yes they look much better which perhaps where some of the excitement comes. A lot of us were and still are prepared to be underwhlemed though the rumors are promising.

Still these were translations and someone might be pulling a fast one so time will tell.

The grey knights and dark angels are delayed by chaos storms. Magnus and the thousand sons attack fenris, using the full power of chaos. The fighting gets very intense causing some space wolves to turn adding to the already large number of wulfen.
Magnus decides to withdraw just as the dark angels and grey knights turn up. Magnus gets to watch as the space wolves try to fight off the combined fleet of grey knights and dark angels, before they carry out an exterminatus.

But hey I could be wrong

There is a nice little interview with David Waeselynck ( who also designed the chieftain from silver tower) about the new Ahriman on the community site. That model gets better and better the more I see of it. The new(ish) blood in the design studio have been knocking it out of the park recently.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Makes sense overall.

Its the exalted sorceress that peak my interest. Just how above regular sorcerers will the be?
If the got no spell familiar I might facepalm so hard my paint will chip off.

Talking about spell familiars. I didn't see any at all in those pics. Including ahriman...again.

I read somewhere that its rumored that Dorn will be the first loyalist primarch to come back?

LightKing wrote:
I read somewhere that its rumored that Dorn will be the first loyalist primarch to come back?

There really hasn't been anything from reliable sources other than the fact there will be one Primarch on the side of the Imperium and one on the side of Chaos (at least for the time being). We have our Chaos Primarch in Magnus, but we don't have any clue as to who the Imperium Primarch will be other than it was strongly suggested that it won't be Leman Russ. It stands to reason that the two Dead Primarchs (Manus and Sanguinius) won't be the ones making a comeback, so that leaves us with Khan, Corax, Vulkan, Dorn, or the Lion. The Lion seems logical since he is physically AT Fenris right now. But that would have huge repercussions for the Dark Angels. Corax, Khan, and Dorn wouldn't have huge upheavals associated with them since it isn't like their Legions are actively trying to find them. Vulkan being found would have some issues since his capsule is one of the artifacts the Salamanders are seeking out in their search for him, and allegedly they need all the artifacts to find him (they don't have all of them).

Personally, I am pulling for Dorn, but he is probably at the bottom in terms of probability since it is believed he is dead, whereas Corax and Khan are just missing (as is Vulkan, but that is more complicated), and the Lion's location is known.

The Logan dying is being assumed from a blurb about the new novel.
I can see Logan dying and Ragnar taking up the fightand saving the day Optimus- Rodimus style because it is fated..
Fenris is not going anywhere, and the Wolves will live on to fire up all of that jealousy out there.

All those people wishing for the Wolves to get destroyed need to take a long hard look at Warhammer Fantasy, and try and remember the Bretonians, Tomb Kings, and Lizard Men among others.
Any other Primarchs will be in 2017 in a different Campaign

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

LightKing wrote:
I read somewhere that its rumored that Dorn will be the first loyalist primarch to come back?

There really hasn't been anything from reliable sources other than the fact there will be one Primarch on the side of the Imperium and one on the side of Chaos (at least for the time being). We have our Chaos Primarch in Magnus, but we don't have any clue as to who the Imperium Primarch will be other than it was strongly suggested that it won't be Leman Russ. It stands to reason that the two Dead Primarchs (Manus and Sanguinius) won't be the ones making a comeback, so that leaves us with Khan, Corax, Vulkan, Dorn, or the Lion. The Lion seems logical since he is physically AT Fenris right now. But that would have huge repercussions for the Dark Angels. Corax, Khan, and Dorn wouldn't have huge upheavals associated with them since it isn't like their Legions are actively trying to find them. Vulkan being found would have some issues since his capsule is one of the artifacts the Salamanders are seeking out in their search for him, and allegedly they need all the artifacts to find him (they don't have all of them).

Personally, I am pulling for Dorn, but he is probably at the bottom in terms of probability since it is believed he is dead, whereas Corax and Khan are just missing (as is Vulkan, but that is more complicated), and the Lion's location is known.

You forgot to mention Guilliman..he would have the biggest influence on Imperium society more so than the other primarchs because of his genius

 loki old fart wrote:
The grey knights and dark angels are delayed by chaos storms. Magnus and the thousand sons attack fenris, using the full power of chaos. The fighting gets very intense causing some space wolves to turn adding to the already large number of wulfen.
Magnus decides to withdraw just as the dark angels and grey knights turn up. Magnus gets to watch as the space wolves try to fight off the combined fleet of grey knights and dark angels, before they carry out an exterminatus.

But hey I could be wrong

Did you miss the previous book? The DA led fleet is already in the Fenrisian system, as are the GK that Krom saved.

loki old fart wrote:The grey knights and dark angels are delayed by chaos storms. Magnus and the thousand sons attack fenris, using the full power of chaos. The fighting gets very intense causing some space wolves to turn adding to the already large number of wulfen.
Magnus decides to withdraw just as the dark angels and grey knights turn up. Magnus gets to watch as the space wolves try to fight off the combined fleet of grey knights and dark angels, before they carry out an exterminatus.

But hey I could be wrong

My prediction is Magnus will invade Fenris, drive out the Wolves, kill a Wolf Lord (hopefully Grimnar), and garrison the planet for some ritual to dump it into the warp or something leading to the SW becoming fleet based. Then it leads into the next campaign centered around the DAngles where they realize that the Changling was messing with them the whole time. Lion wakes up, drinks some protein shake, does a few squats, and decides to show up the SWs again. Together with Ragnar the new Great Wolf (lets face it if Grimnar ever dies Ragnar was the only Wolf Lord to get a 6 book series dedicated to him) the Lion drops on Fenris, arm wrestles Magnus, stops the ritual and deports them back to the warp. Also Ahriman will probably betray the TS somewhere just for old times sake, and GW can't resist "Starscream-ing" all their mid-tier villains.

I mean its got a dead Wolf Lord (honestly though I expect it to be someone lame like Krakendoom. I mean who wants to play a company of marines that smell like wet dog), a new plastic loyalist primarch (Atia said outright that we'd get a loyalist plastic primarch, no Russ. Given her record I'm not doubting it'll happen), and a new plastic character (Ragnar).

Plus it lets both Chaos players and Imperial/SW players feel like they had a chance at winning because seriously no one can fault Magnus for losing to another primarch especially when he's distracted in the middle of a ritual.

casvalremdeikun wrote:

LightKing wrote:
I read somewhere that its rumored that Dorn will be the first loyalist primarch to come back?

There really hasn't been anything from reliable sources other than the fact there will be one Primarch on the side of the Imperium and one on the side of Chaos (at least for the time being). We have our Chaos Primarch in Magnus, but we don't have any clue as to who the Imperium Primarch will be other than it was strongly suggested that it won't be Leman Russ. It stands to reason that the two Dead Primarchs (Manus and Sanguinius) won't be the ones making a comeback, so that leaves us with Khan, Corax, Vulkan, Dorn, or the Lion. The Lion seems logical since he is physically AT Fenris right now. But that would have huge repercussions for the Dark Angels. Corax, Khan, and Dorn wouldn't have huge upheavals associated with them since it isn't like their Legions are actively trying to find them. Vulkan being found would have some issues since his capsule is one of the artifacts the Salamanders are seeking out in their search for him, and allegedly they need all the artifacts to find him (they don't have all of them).

Personally, I am pulling for Dorn, but he is probably at the bottom in terms of probability since it is believed he is dead, whereas Corax and Khan are just missing (as is Vulkan, but that is more complicated), and the Lion's location is known.

Yeah I'm hoping for the same thing. Dorn coming back would make me and my 12th Founding IF successor chapter very happy.

I thought it sounded pretty dumb at first, but that really sketchy "my friend's cousin's uncle's bother lives next to Roundtree and heard Dorn has a gunhand" rumor even kinda grew on me to the point that I really hope we do get Dorn with a gunhand of some sort. And in the same vein of the alternate weapons and faces for Magnus, maybe they could even give him back his old skeletal scrimshawed hand, rigged up with bionics and a power-field as an option.

LightKing wrote:
You forgot to mention Guilliman

No I didn't.

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
WoM is hardcase like End Times books were and has 2 books. One is the fluff and other is rules. All that info is correct (from previous rumors) but it’s laid out in two parts, CSM TSons and Tz demons to add to/overwrite current CSM or Demons codex to play a TSons list.

The 9 traitor legions, yeah, mostly formations, data scrolls, relics, way more psyker powers and chapter tactics like SMs so this is a HUGE boost.

Dec 3rd preorder for legions, 10th for Imperials.

PS: the rubric marines box is stunning
1) its comes with an amazingly diverse transfer sheet and
2) 10 infernal boltgun and 5 warpflamers. Soul reaper cannon.