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 Wulfmar wrote:

Iuchiban wrote:
Hi all, Iuchiban here.

I already own my copy of the book. I will be home in about half an hour.

Prepare your questions!!!!!!

Excellent news! Thank you in advance!

1) Standard Thousand Sons Squads
- What weapon choices are available?
- How do you reckon it affect compositions of the squad (are you encouraged to go for a specific type of weapon to make use of any specific bonuses?)

2) Occult terminators
- Anything notably different to normal CSM terminator weapon choices?

3) Ahriman
- Does he have to be mounted on a disk of Tzeentch now?


Thanks again - hope you enjoy flicking through the book!

Ok, let's get the party started:

1) Rubric Marines: 150 points for 4 guys + sorcered. Standard equipment as usual. Any Rubric Marine may take a warp flamer for +7 points. For every 10, 1 may get the assualt cannon thing. Rest is more or less as always.

2) Termies are slightly different: 250 points for 4 guys + sorcerer (Lvl 2). For every five guys, one may get a heavy weapon (Heavy Flamer(+15) or, Assault cannon thing (+30)). May not take Power fists and/or any other CC weapon than the power sword. For every five models, one may get the Missile thing (+20).

3) Disc for Ahriman is optional (+30 points)

Thanks Ichiban! What are the auxiliary formations for the thousand sons decurion?

 Roknar wrote:
Ahirman can only cast the same witchfire up to three times, not four. He's also still stuck with rolling once the discipline of tzeentch. Although that got a LOT better with the cabal power. Still not sure whether or not gaze of magnus is part of that or not, but that would be nasty if you have enough warp charges to cast that three times. Not sure that's even feasible mind you.

I'm pretty sure Gaze of Magnus is unique to Magnus, as the name suggests.

Let's go with some random stuff:

Artefacts (Some interesting ones here, and as usual translation of names may be innaccurate)

- Astral Grimoire (30 points):At the beginning of your Movement phase choose either the bearer or a single infantry unit. This unit gets the Jump Infantry type until the end of the phase.

- Doom of the ser (40 points): Daemon weapon, AP2, Combat, Force. Agaist non-vehicle targets the roll to wound is made Ld vs Ld. To calculte instant death the Ld of the bearer is used agaist the T.

- Third eye helmet (20 points): The bearer and his unit may make overwatch attacks, even if the are S&P. Non S&P units may overwatch with BS2.

- Arcane staff thing (10 points): Standard staff, but when the bearer or his unit are charged, charging unit has -2 to the charging distance.

- Lighting thing (20 points): Pistol, S4, AP3, Soulblaze, Blast

- Athenean scrolls (20 points): When making a succesful physic test, if 2 dice have the same result, the power cannot be denied.

Iuchiban wrote:
Let's go with some random stuff:

Artefacts (Some interesting ones here, and as usual translation of names may be innaccurate)

- Astral Grimoire (30 points):At the beginning of your Movement phase choose either the bearer or a single infantry unit. This unit gets the Jump Infantry type until the end of the phase.

- Doom of the ser (40 points): Daemon weapon, AP2, Combat, Force. Agaist non-vehicle targets the roll to wound is made Ld vs Ld. To calculte instant death the Ld of the bearer is used agaist the T.

- Third eye helmet (20 points): The bearer and his unit may make overwatch attacks, even if the are S&P. Non S&P units may overwatch with BS2.

- Arcane staff thing (10 points): Standard staff, but when the bearer or his unit are charged, charging unit has -2 to the charging distance.

- Lighting thing (20 points): Pistol, S4, AP3, Soulblaze, Blast

- Athenean scrolls (20 points): When making a succesful physic test, if 2 dice have the same result, the power cannot be denied.

Whats the range on the Astral Grimoire?

Astral grimoire isn't that strong then :/

Still nice for large infantry death stars though.

 buddha wrote:
Thanks Ichiban! What are the auxiliary formations for the thousand sons decurion?

Let's go with formations then:

War cabal:
1 Ahriman, Daemon Prince, Exalted Sorcerer or Sorcerer
1-3 Rubric Marines
1-3 S O Termies
1-3 Exalted Sorcerer or Sorcerer

Benefits:
If formation is maximezed in number of units, reroll 1's to sabe.
I a Psyker manifest one power, during the next Psychic phase the Psyker and his unit may reroll 1's to hit


War Coven
1 Daemon Prince, Sorcerer or Exalted Sorcerer
3-9 Sorcerer of Exalted Sorcerer

Benefits:
Same as War Cabal (reroll 1's to sabe when max)
The formation may choose one of the psychic disciplines of the BRB and cast those powers with 3+, instead of 4+.



Tzangoor warheard
1 Sorcerer or Exalted Sorcerer
3 units of Tzangoors
0-6 units of Tzangoors or Spaws

Benefits:
Fleet
Reroll to save 1's when max
Tzangoors may run and charge. If charge distance is 9 or more, +1S and +1I.


Sehkmet Conclave
1 Sorcerer, Exalted Sorcecer, Daemon Prince, Ahriman or Magnus
3-9 Units of Scarab Termis

Benefits:
Fear
Reroll 1's to sabe if max
Units in this formation have +1T if they are at 6" of any other 2 units of this formation.


Ahriman Exiles
Ahriman
3-9 Exalted Sorcerers

Benefits:
Reroll 1's to sabe if max
Ahriman and any sorcerer at 18" cast powers with 3+.


Rehati War Sect
Magnus
3-9 Daemon Prince, Exalted Sorcerer

Benefits:
Reroll 1's to sabe if max
If at 18" of Magnus, the formation cast powers with 3+, and have line of sight with every unit in the battlefield.

Pardon my lack of knowledge but what is S&P?

 Vash108 wrote:
Pardon my lack of knowledge but what is S&P?

Slow and Purposeful

Hey Iuchiban, thanks as always for this.
I have some Daemon specific questions:

--Do the unit entries for Pink, Blue and Brimstone Horrors replace/add to the entries in Codex: Daemon? or are they unique to CSM detahcments taken as Thousand Sons?

--Can Blue or Brimstone Horrors be taken in the Warpflame Host formation from the Incursion Detachment? Or can they only be taken in CADs and certain Wraith of Magnus formations?

--Other that then Horrors, are there any other Daemon units in the book?

Thanks again!

That daemon weapon is pretty nasty with using LD vs T for ID as it is most likely that the person running around with it will have LD 9 or 10 (I think, surely chaos sorcerers have high leadership?).

So they won't even need to activate the Force power to get ID on T4 or 5, freeing up warp charges for other powers.

 Vash108 wrote:
Pardon my lack of knowledge but what is S&P?

I believe Slow and Purposeful or something like that.

What is a sabe? At first I thought it was a spelling mistake and is suppose to be save, but I see it a few times. So is it suppose to be save or is it something else?

Iuchiban What does the Icon of Flame do now? has it changed or is it the same? Thanks in advance!!

Davor wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:
Pardon my lack of knowledge but what is S&P?

I believe Slow and Purposeful or something like that.

What is a sabe? At first I thought it was a spelling mistake and is suppose to be save, but I see it a few times. So is it suppose to be save or is it something else?

It's just misspelling save. B is right next to V on the keyboard and I imagine they're trying to type fast to answer everyones questions

 nintura wrote:
Lol yeah, pretty much. For a fun point though, I thought it would be interesting to note that there is a way to make this all possible, and not with "magic travel".

There is a high enough velocity that will allow you to travel to any point instantaneously, despite the distance. An easy way to understand this is Star Treks "Warp 10", using the new definition, not the old one (there have been ships that broke warp 10 but this was later reduced as they condensed all speeds).

Warp 10 was a theoretical speed in which the traveler occupies all possible spaces in the universe simultaneously. To imagine this, think that you have an apple in your hand, you can point at any part of it and be there. Except that apple is all of the universe. It's kinda like you step out of your universe which becomes a little ball.

If you think that's possible even in theory, then your understanding of physics is about on the level of your understanding of 40K background (IE. not very good.) Now the former is completly understandable, as the theory of reality is really unintuitive and hard to grasp. But briefly, in reality travelling faster than light would effectively lead to time travel and breaking of causality. Star Trek's FTL is just as much 'magic' as 40K's. For more information google 'Theory of Relativity.'

 nintura wrote:


Unless you're talking trillions of fleets, it's not going to happen. Not in that time frame. Yes, GW can say what they want because that's how it worked. But it wouldn't happen in reality. There's an estimated 100 BILLION habitable planets in the Milkway alone. And that's 1% of 1% of 1% (it goes on, but I dont like to repeat myself) of the planets out there. So even given your possible theory of 60 million planets conquered in 300 years, you'd need to really, REALLY ramp that up. And that's not going to happen by the year 30,000 by the best of times.

Imperium consists of about million worlds. That information is literally on the first pages of every edition of 40K. It is pretty futile to engage in arguments about fluff if you have no foggiest what the fluff actually entails.

Furthermore, you are also wrong about real physics again. Absolutely top estimate of planets in habitable zones of stars not hostile to like is 40 billion, and of course that does not account presence of water and other factors which affect the habitability of said planets.

Iuchiban wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Thanks Ichiban! What are the auxiliary formations for the thousand sons decurion?

Let's go with formations then:

War cabal:
1 Ahriman, Daemon Prince, Exalted Sorcerer or Sorcerer
1-3 Rubric Marines
1-3 S O Termies
1-3 Exalted Sorcerer or Sorcerer

Benefits:
If formation is maximezed in number of units, reroll 1's to sabe.
I a Psyker manifest one power, during the next Psychic phase the Psyker and his unit may reroll 1's to hit


War Coven
1 Daemon Prince, Sorcerer or Exalted Sorcerer
3-9 Sorcerer of Exalted Sorcerer

Benefits:
Same as War Cabal (reroll 1's to sabe when max)
The formation may choose one of the psychic disciplines of the BRB and cast those powers with 3+, instead of 4+.



Tzangoor warheard
1 Sorcerer or Exalted Sorcerer
3 units of Tzangoors
0-6 units of Tzangoors or Spaws

Benefits:
Fleet
Reroll to save 1's when max
Tzangoors may run and charge. If charge distance is 9 or more, +1S and +1I.


Sehkmet Conclave
1 Sorcerer, Exalted Sorcecer, Daemon Prince, Ahriman or Magnus
3-9 Units of Scarab Termis

Benefits:
Fear
Reroll 1's to sabe if max
Units in this formation have +1T if they are at 6" of any other 2 units of this formation.


Ahriman Exiles
Ahriman
3-9 Exalted Sorcerers

Benefits:
Reroll 1's to sabe if max
Ahriman and any sorcerer at 18" cast powers with 3+.


Rehati War Sect
Magnus
3-9 Daemon Prince, Exalted Sorcerer

Benefits:
Reroll 1's to sabe if max
If at 18" of Magnus, the formation cast powers with 3+, and have line of sight with every unit in the battlefield.

What are the non-formation auxilliary choices?

Also, how about the Daemon decurion's formations and aux choices?

This just in on the comunity site for traitor legions.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/28/the-eye-opens-and-the-legions-return/

It doesn't really say anything new but there is this:
"pecial rules with names like “The Butcher’s Nails”, “Many Heads of the Hydra” and “Iron Within, Iron Without” bring the well-loved background of the Heretic Astartes to life, and will be available to any detachment or formation pledged to the appropriate Legion (much like their loyalist brethren have access to Space Marine Chapter Tactics).

In addition, every Legion gets a Warlord Traits table, Chaos Artefacts and a dedicated Detachment of Formations, further rewarding armies that mirror the Legions as they appear in the background."

So every legion is getting their own decurion by the looks. That's more than I was expecing.
I wonder what that means for non TSons legions. I would expect them to copy paste the Wrath of Magnus formations without the daemon only parts. Unless we get all new formations (a man can dream right?)

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:
Pardon my lack of knowledge but what is S&P?

I believe Slow and Purposeful or something like that.

What is a sabe? At first I thought it was a spelling mistake and is suppose to be save, but I see it a few times. So is it suppose to be save or is it something else?

It's just misspelling save. B is right next to V on the keyboard and I imagine they're trying to type fast to answer everyones questions

Thanks, that is what I thought, just wanted to make sure since I am not familiar with all of 40K so wanted to make sure sabe didn't stand for something else with all the acronyms we have

 Roknar wrote:
This just in on the comunity site for traitor legions.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/28/the-eye-opens-and-the-legions-return/

It doesn't really say anything new but there is this:
"pecial rules with names like “The Butcher’s Nails”, “Many Heads of the Hydra” and “Iron Within, Iron Without” bring the well-loved background of the Heretic Astartes to life, and will be available to any detachment or formation pledged to the appropriate Legion (much like their loyalist brethren have access to Space Marine Chapter Tactics).

In addition, every Legion gets a Warlord Traits table, Chaos Artefacts and a dedicated Detachment of Formations, further rewarding armies that mirror the Legions as they appear in the background."

So every legion is getting their own decurion by the looks. That's more than I was expecing.
I wonder what that means for non TSons legions. I would expect them to copy paste the Wrath of Magnus formations without the daemon only parts. Unless we get all new formations (a man can dream right?)

Can't wait to see what they get, even if I am wary of them just being Copy, Paste versions of the Loyalists with name changes.

Also, how in the nine hells are you supposed to use that re-roll special rule when it require you to take a around of 2k+ points in every formation other than the tzangors? I didn't think it would be THAT hard to get. Even just 9 exalted sorcerers is almost 2k, not including the HW choice ^_-

I hope that's not a sign of...something.

 Roknar wrote:
This just in on the comunity site for traitor legions.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/28/the-eye-opens-and-the-legions-return/

It doesn't really say anything new but there is this:
"pecial rules with names like “The Butcher’s Nails”, “Many Heads of the Hydra” and “Iron Within, Iron Without” bring the well-loved background of the Heretic Astartes to life, and will be available to any detachment or formation pledged to the appropriate Legion (much like their loyalist brethren have access to Space Marine Chapter Tactics).

In addition, every Legion gets a Warlord Traits table, Chaos Artefacts and a dedicated Detachment of Formations, further rewarding armies that mirror the Legions as they appear in the background."

So every legion is getting their own decurion by the looks. That's more than I was expecing.
I wonder what that means for non TSons legions. I would expect them to copy paste the Wrath of Magnus formations without the daemon only parts. Unless we get all new formations (a man can dream right?)

Well the Alpha Legion players can stop worrying since “Many Heads of the Hydra” can be little else.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
This just in on the comunity site for traitor legions.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/28/the-eye-opens-and-the-legions-return/

It doesn't really say anything new but there is this:
"pecial rules with names like “The Butcher’s Nails”, “Many Heads of the Hydra” and “Iron Within, Iron Without” bring the well-loved background of the Heretic Astartes to life, and will be available to any detachment or formation pledged to the appropriate Legion (much like their loyalist brethren have access to Space Marine Chapter Tactics).

In addition, every Legion gets a Warlord Traits table, Chaos Artefacts and a dedicated Detachment of Formations, further rewarding armies that mirror the Legions as they appear in the background."

So every legion is getting their own decurion by the looks. That's more than I was expecing.
I wonder what that means for non TSons legions. I would expect them to copy paste the Wrath of Magnus formations without the daemon only parts. Unless we get all new formations (a man can dream right?)

Can't wait to see what they get, even if I am wary of them just being Copy, Paste versions of the Loyalists with name changes.

Pfft, as if GW will give something to Chaos from a loyalist faction without attaching some kind of downside which makes it basically useless

 Crimson wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Lol yeah, pretty much. For a fun point though, I thought it would be interesting to note that there is a way to make this all possible, and not with "magic travel".

There is a high enough velocity that will allow you to travel to any point instantaneously, despite the distance. An easy way to understand this is Star Treks "Warp 10", using the new definition, not the old one (there have been ships that broke warp 10 but this was later reduced as they condensed all speeds).

Warp 10 was a theoretical speed in which the traveler occupies all possible spaces in the universe simultaneously. To imagine this, think that you have an apple in your hand, you can point at any part of it and be there. Except that apple is all of the universe. It's kinda like you step out of your universe which becomes a little ball.

If you think that's possible even in theory, then your understanding of physics is about on the level of your understanding of 40K background (IE. not very good.) Now the former is completly understandable, as the theory of reality is really unintuitive and hard to grasp. But briefly, in reality travelling faster than light would effectively lead to time travel and breaking of causality. Star Trek's FTL is just as much 'magic' as 40K's. For more information google 'Theory of Relativity.'

 nintura wrote:


Unless you're talking trillions of fleets, it's not going to happen. Not in that time frame. Yes, GW can say what they want because that's how it worked. But it wouldn't happen in reality. There's an estimated 100 BILLION habitable planets in the Milkway alone. And that's 1% of 1% of 1% (it goes on, but I dont like to repeat myself) of the planets out there. So even given your possible theory of 60 million planets conquered in 300 years, you'd need to really, REALLY ramp that up. And that's not going to happen by the year 30,000 by the best of times.

Imperium consists of about million worlds. That information is literally on the first pages of every edition of 40K. It is pretty futile to engage in arguments about fluff if you have no foggiest what the fluff actually entails.

Furthermore, you are also wrong about real physics again. Absolutely top estimate of planets in habitable zones of stars not hostile to like is 40 billion, and of course that does not account presence of water and other factors which affect the habitability of said planets.

Not only did you miss the point, but you missed the posts and responses. We've been asked to forget it.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
This just in on the comunity site for traitor legions.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/28/the-eye-opens-and-the-legions-return/

It doesn't really say anything new but there is this:
"pecial rules with names like “The Butcher’s Nails”, “Many Heads of the Hydra” and “Iron Within, Iron Without” bring the well-loved background of the Heretic Astartes to life, and will be available to any detachment or formation pledged to the appropriate Legion (much like their loyalist brethren have access to Space Marine Chapter Tactics).

In addition, every Legion gets a Warlord Traits table, Chaos Artefacts and a dedicated Detachment of Formations, further rewarding armies that mirror the Legions as they appear in the background."

So every legion is getting their own decurion by the looks. That's more than I was expecing.
I wonder what that means for non TSons legions. I would expect them to copy paste the Wrath of Magnus formations without the daemon only parts. Unless we get all new formations (a man can dream right?)

Can't wait to see what they get, even if I am wary of them just being Copy, Paste versions of the Loyalists with name changes.

Pfft, as if GW will give something to Chaos from a loyalist faction without attaching some kind of downside which makes it basically useless

Well they might copy paste them word for word like with the new disciplines. So enjoy those re-roll to hits with ultramarine units in your army

 Crimson wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Lol yeah, pretty much. For a fun point though, I thought it would be interesting to note that there is a way to make this all possible, and not with "magic travel".

There is a high enough velocity that will allow you to travel to any point instantaneously, despite the distance. An easy way to understand this is Star Treks "Warp 10", using the new definition, not the old one (there have been ships that broke warp 10 but this was later reduced as they condensed all speeds).

Warp 10 was a theoretical speed in which the traveler occupies all possible spaces in the universe simultaneously. To imagine this, think that you have an apple in your hand, you can point at any part of it and be there. Except that apple is all of the universe. It's kinda like you step out of your universe which becomes a little ball.

If you think that's possible even in theory, then your understanding of physics is about on the level of your understanding of 40K background (IE. not very good.) Now the former is completly understandable, as the theory of reality is really unintuitive and hard to grasp. But briefly, in reality travelling faster than light would effectively lead to time travel and breaking of causality. Star Trek's FTL is just as much 'magic' as 40K's. For more information google 'Theory of Relativity.'

 nintura wrote:


Unless you're talking trillions of fleets, it's not going to happen. Not in that time frame. Yes, GW can say what they want because that's how it worked. But it wouldn't happen in reality. There's an estimated 100 BILLION habitable planets in the Milkway alone. And that's 1% of 1% of 1% (it goes on, but I dont like to repeat myself) of the planets out there. So even given your possible theory of 60 million planets conquered in 300 years, you'd need to really, REALLY ramp that up. And that's not going to happen by the year 30,000 by the best of times.

Imperium consists of about million worlds. That information is literally on the first pages of every edition of 40K. It is pretty futile to engage in arguments about fluff if you have no foggiest what the fluff actually entails.

Furthermore, you are also wrong about real physics again. Absolutely top estimate of planets in habitable zones of stars not hostile to like is 40 billion, and of course that does not account presence of water and other factors which affect the habitability of said planets.

OK guys seriously, knock it off. We don't even have a man on mars and you all are arguing about something 39,000 years in the future....that is fiction.

On topic: Why isn't the Space Wolves getting anything with this? I thought the warzone supplements had new rules for both armies featured?

Iuchiban: Thank you for the info! A couple questions if I may.

1) How expensive is the cannon for the Rubrics? Same price as for the terminators?

2) What kind of options does the Exalted Sorcerer have? We know you can bump ML up to 3, but do they have weapon options? Can they wear Terminator Armor?

Iuchiban, may Tzeentch bless your soul!

Outside the Warlord Trait, is there any other way to prevent/reduce Deep Strike scatter within the book?

What models can take the Doom of the Seer staff?

Davor wrote:
What is a sabe? At first I thought it was a spelling mistake and is suppose to be save, but I see it a few times. So is it suppose to be save or is it something else?

I guess it's either invul saves or saves in general

 Roknar wrote:
Also, how in the nine hells are you supposed to use that re-roll special rule when it require you to take a around of 2k+ points in every formation other than the tzangors? I didn't think it would be THAT hard to get. Even just 9 exalted sorcerers is almost 2k, not including the HW choice ^_-

I hope that's not a sign of...something.

Look again you only need regular sorcerers to get these formations so you can max out the war cabal for 1400 ish points and still have access Divination with the Occult Terminators Sorcerer.

Are the new Exalted Sorcerors required to generate one of their powers on the Discipline of Tzeentch table?

It seems strange to me that new War Coven formation would give you a boost to a BRB psychic discipline, but prevent you from rolling on it unless you're ML2+ (and even then, an ML3 Tzeentch sorceror is a worse Biomancer than a ML2 Librarian!)

But hey, it's Chaos, our worst enemy is ourselves :(

Luchiban, what does Magnus' wargear cost?