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 Larmsword wrote:
Quick question about the Word Bearers relics:

Can a Daemon Prince take the Crown of the Blasphemer? They can't take a regular sigil, that's why I'm asking.

Is the Cursed Crozius really 35 points just for a power maul with preferred enemy(Imperium)? Or does it have other bonuses or better AP than a regular power maul?

yeah, a DP can take chaos artefacts

it;s 35 pts S+2, AP3 melee, concussive, bane of men (the preferred enemy you mention)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Roknar wrote:
I'm liking the option to add some ranged relics.

yeah. a lot of variety. The more I discuss and revise the more I like this. I'll parade it to the store tomorrow as I wish for my TS to arrive and be assembled in full. Soon...

But, now I want my 30K DG to get a 40K warband as well. So many shiny (er, gunky) toys...

How does this work? :
siege breaker mace (25) S+2 Ap 4, concussive, masterccraft, siege breaker - signal S10, AP 1 attack melee
Is this liek an alternate mode? S+2 Ap4 all attack, or replace all attacks with 1 S10 Ap1 attack?

Shriekwave (20) gun 12” S8,AP2, assault D6, mental trauma (before attack target takes ldsh test and f failed you re-roll these to-wound);

Wow this gun is incredible

The Blissgiver is pretty disappointing, I would have loved to have had a daemon weapon again oh well :(

I'll just have to make do with my amazing gun and super combat drugs, getting 4 combat drug roles could create some absolutely insane characters.

 VeteranNoob wrote:
IW havens, obits, mutilators get tank hunter

Havens? Do you mean Havocs?

Woa.
Talons of Night Terror (20) each fight sub phase make additional D3 attacks (or D6 if turn you charged) S user AP5, melee, shred
Are those attacks made by the bearer? Because that would be the difference between paying 20 points for rampage or a worse lightning claw.

Noob, this all great!

Now spoil imperial agents :p

 Roknar wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Basic Emperor's Children marines with Icon of excess seem good, 190 pts for a 10 man squad of initiative 5 marines, with 4+ FNP, Fearless, and a roll on the combat drug table, which can give them +1 WS, BS, S, T, A, I,

Death Guard Marines are incredible also (Likely even better than the EC ones), 170 pts for a 10 man squad of toughness 5 marines with 5+ FNP and fearless but with a -1 to initiative.

How are they better? The EC marines could end up with T5 and I5 with a 4+ fnp and fearless, so they're better on every front except for the lack of relentless.

How do you figure Emperors Children are better? They have the Icon that can be sniped out and need bigger squad sizes to get even nearly the same mileage.

 Roknar wrote:
How does this work? :
siege breaker mace (25) S+2 Ap 4, concussive, masterccraft, siege breaker - signal S10, AP 1 attack melee
Is this liek an alternate mode? S+2 Ap4 all attack, or replace all attacks with 1 S10 Ap1 attack?

instead of regular attack you use this bonkers single attack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Roknar wrote:
Woa.
Talons of Night Terror (20) each fight sub phase make additional D3 attacks (or D6 if turn you charged) S user AP5, melee, shred
Are those attacks made by the bearer? Because that would be the difference between paying 20 points for rampage or a worse lightning claw.

Yup, one lucky bearer


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pariah-Miniatures wrote:
Noob, this all great!

Now spoil imperial agents :p

haha! OK now, I learned this took 12 more hours than I expected. and rushed as NZ preorders came up on me earlier than expected. Gotta start Imp agents Monday. That's an actual codex!

Dang this sounds like it's gonna be great. Thanks for posting dude.

Two questions though:
Does every non-vehicle emperor's children unit roll on the combat drugs table at the start of the game?
Do detachments that take a legion specific relic still have access to the relics in the csm codex (black mace, murder sword etc)?

Can a Slaaneshi Daemon Prince take drugs?

Are there any notable restrictions on which models can take what Relics?

How do Fortification Auxiliaries work for Iron Warriors anyway?

 VeteranNoob wrote:

3 - Iron Warriors
must: no unique, no marks take VotLW, Psykers from gods (see above)

see new post withe everything in.

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:
Dang this sounds like it's gonna be great. Thanks for posting dude.

Two questions though:
Does every non-vehicle emperor's children unit roll on the combat drugs table at the start of the game?
Do detachments that take a legion specific relic still have access to the relics in the csm codex (black mace, murder sword etc)?

every EC non-veh
yeah, CSM units can access their codex relics but if in legion army can choose legion ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mortemus wrote:

 VeteranNoob wrote:

3 - Iron Warriors
must: no unique, no marks take VotLW, Psykers from gods (see above)

see new post withe everything in.

VeteranNoob thanks for what you're doing. Quick question can iron warriora not take marks at all, including sorcrers ?

Is the Khorne's Lord of SKulls still 888pts?, or as it been changed to something more realistic for wat it does?

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Is the Khorne's Lord of SKulls still 888pts?, or as it been changed to something more realistic for wat it does?

888 but now...you can take a formation of 3!!!

so do e children, world eaters, death guard still need to BUY the marks, or are they free with VOTLW?

Big thanks to VeteranNoob.

Man, the powerlevel on the different "Legion Tactics" really are all over the place.

DG and EC are clearly at the top, closely followed by AL (AL wins the "trolling game" though,)
BL, NL, IW and WE are in the middle.
WB and TS got the short end of the stick, but at least WB (along with all other legions) have a "Legion Tactic" which is passive and hence always active. I guess WB ends up in the middle if you play the summoning-game as well.

Poor TS, their one and only bonus requires both a psyker and a successful psychic test.

(Edit: For clarifications sake, I'm not talking about the powerlevel of the Legions as a whole, just the bonuses granted by adhering to the rules for said Legion.)

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Roknar wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Basic Emperor's Children marines with Icon of excess seem good, 190 pts for a 10 man squad of initiative 5 marines, with 4+ FNP, Fearless, and a roll on the combat drug table, which can give them +1 WS, BS, S, T, A, I,

Death Guard Marines are incredible also (Likely even better than the EC ones), 170 pts for a 10 man squad of toughness 5 marines with 5+ FNP and fearless but with a -1 to initiative.

How are they better? The EC marines could end up with T5 and I5 with a 4+ fnp and fearless, so they're better on every front except for the lack of relentless.

How do you figure Emperors Children are better? They have the Icon that can be sniped out and need bigger squad sizes to get even nearly the same mileage.

Because that 4+ FNP gives them a 50% chance to shrug off the sniper shot, they are Fearless, and they are cheap enough you can take plenty of them. Not to mention the hell you can unleash with actual Noise Marines, with their S5 Sonic Blasters with Shred and split fire.

These guys are going to own any infantry within 24 inches.

Hey VeteranNoon, thank you so much for all this goodness, but I do have one question for you.

Can you clarify how the Alpha Legion Shrouded bonus works? I'm wondering if it works like the Raven Guard tactic which states that you don't get the bonus if you disembarked from a transport that turn.

Thanks again.

 MinscS2 wrote:
All in all I feel positive about Supplement; Traitor Legions, but looking trough what VeteranNoob posted (big thanks by the way), I can't help but feeling that Thousand Sons got the short end of the stick "Legion Tactics"-wise (while they won by a landslide model-wise ofcourse.)

Yes, Iron Warriors might be on the recieving end as well, but at least they, along with all other Legions except for Thousand Sons got passive buffs that you can always count on your units to have...
Man, the powerlevel on the different Legion Tactics really are all over the place. Lucky AL, DG and EC-players...

TS are just fine. They get Horrors with split, which is going to ensure your total psychic points only go up as the game goes on. They are also have Magnus, who can pretty much fly all over the table and do whatever he wants.

Not sure what makes Alpha Legion seem so special. The warlord thing is neat, but it's not a game changer. Shrouded units are only shrouded for the first turn. I guess I need to see the formations, but they seem like Black Legion light.

Well, this has me interested enough to start thinking about rebasing my 8 legion armies on 32mm and finally finishing my Alpha Legion.

Anyone building Magnus able to answer the following questions it'd be greatly appreciated since I'm considering a conversion

1) Are the feathers on the ankles required to make a smooth leg?
2) Are all the armor plate optional (are the arms/chest/thighs/ankles fully sculpted)?
3) If not all, which ones are fully sculpted and which require armored plates?
4) How is the head attached? Would it be possible to find like a defiler helm or dp heads to swap?

Thanks in advance guys

techsoldaten wrote:
TS are just fine. They get Horrors with split, which is going to ensure your total psychic points only go up as the game goes on. They are also have Magnus, who can pretty much fly all over the table and do whatever he wants.

Not sure what makes Alpha Legion seem so special.

Technically speaking though, all Legions can get Horrors.
Magnus is neat though, but (as now more clearly stated in my previous post), I was just comparing the specific "Legion Tactics", not the powerlevel of the Legions as a whole.

As for AL, getting free infiltrate on Chosen, Cultists and regular CSM's not only sounds fun, but damn neat if you build your list around it.

 MinscS2 wrote:
Big thanks to VeteranNoob.

Man, the powerlevel on the different "Legion Tactics" really are all over the place.

DG and EC are clearly at the top, closely followed by AL (AL wins the "trolling game" though,)
BL, NL, IW and WE are in the middle.
WB and TS got the short end of the stick, but at least WB (along with all other legions) have a "Legion Tactic" which is passive and hence always active. I guess WB ends up in the middle if you play the summoning-game as well.

Poor TS, their one and only bonus requires both a psyker and a successful psychic test.

(Edit: For clarifications sake, I'm not talking about the powerlevel of the Legions as a whole, just the bonuses granted by adhering to the rules for said Legion.)

If we are looking at the bonuses in isolation, sure. But we need to understand what the options are for allies, there is the possibility we can combine some of these armies to create very tough forces.

Black Legion becomes much more attractive if you can ally in their most powerful units to an Emperor's Children force. Thinking you take Chosen and Terminators with one and lots and lots of 4+ FNP marines with souped up guns with the other.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Roknar wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Basic Emperor's Children marines with Icon of excess seem good, 190 pts for a 10 man squad of initiative 5 marines, with 4+ FNP, Fearless, and a roll on the combat drug table, which can give them +1 WS, BS, S, T, A, I,

Death Guard Marines are incredible also (Likely even better than the EC ones), 170 pts for a 10 man squad of toughness 5 marines with 5+ FNP and fearless but with a -1 to initiative.

How are they better? The EC marines could end up with T5 and I5 with a 4+ fnp and fearless, so they're better on every front except for the lack of relentless.

How do you figure Emperors Children are better? They have the Icon that can be sniped out and need bigger squad sizes to get even nearly the same mileage.

Because that 4+ FNP gives them a 50% chance to shrug off the sniper shot, they are Fearless, and they are cheap enough you can take plenty of them. Not to mention the hell you can unleash with actual Noise Marines, with their S5 Sonic Blasters with Shred and split fire.

These guys are going to own any infantry within 24 inches.

You mean those Sonic Blasters they won't use well when they move? Because they aren't Relentless? Also the matter that you DO have to take a lot of them in order to get enough from the Icon instead of being chumps at 5 men?

Noise Marines improved but don't pretend they're near the level of Plague Marines.

Is there any way to get cultists into the Alpha Legion detachment without using a Lost and the Damned formation? If not, then what's the point of the detachment rule letting them respawn on a 4+?

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Is there any way to get cultists into the Alpha Legion detachment without using a Lost and the Damned formation? If not, then what's the point of the detachment rule letting them respawn on a 4+?

For use in a cad perhaps?

There's nothing not to like about IW oblitorators that are troops + tank Hunter. 6+fnp. Bonus vs buildings. Yes.

But the real winner for me is the WE artefact for bonus move. Combo with the TS jump artefact and we are mooooving

ancraig wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Is there any way to get cultists into the Alpha Legion detachment without using a Lost and the Damned formation? If not, then what's the point of the detachment rule letting them respawn on a 4+?

For use in a cad perhaps?

Unless I'm missing something, the rule is a command benefit in the Alpha Legion decurion. Is this like the redundant Blood Angels bonuses?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Roknar wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Basic Emperor's Children marines with Icon of excess seem good, 190 pts for a 10 man squad of initiative 5 marines, with 4+ FNP, Fearless, and a roll on the combat drug table, which can give them +1 WS, BS, S, T, A, I,

Death Guard Marines are incredible also (Likely even better than the EC ones), 170 pts for a 10 man squad of toughness 5 marines with 5+ FNP and fearless but with a -1 to initiative.

How are they better? The EC marines could end up with T5 and I5 with a 4+ fnp and fearless, so they're better on every front except for the lack of relentless.

How do you figure Emperors Children are better? They have the Icon that can be sniped out and need bigger squad sizes to get even nearly the same mileage.

Because that 4+ FNP gives them a 50% chance to shrug off the sniper shot, they are Fearless, and they are cheap enough you can take plenty of them. Not to mention the hell you can unleash with actual Noise Marines, with their S5 Sonic Blasters with Shred and split fire.

These guys are going to own any infantry within 24 inches.

You mean those Sonic Blasters they won't use well when they move? Because they aren't Relentless? Also the matter that you DO have to take a lot of them in order to get enough from the Icon instead of being chumps at 5 men?

Noise Marines improved but don't pretend they're near the level of Plague Marines.

I have to agree Sonic Blasters are still fundamentally broken with Salvo. They're still a never take. The Kakophoni rules are still though. Split the your 6 units between bolter/bolt pistol/CCW squads with a Doom Siren; and some MSU Blastermaster squads camping on objectives or in ruins. Then advance the Siren squads in rhinos. Then take the CD Grand Cavalcade for some cheap AV10 to run with the chariots and seeker.

Your still going to need the Lord on a bike to get him into combat. So, your stuck with a Warband or a CAD for your escorting bikes. Do we have access to Spawn as an Auxiliary?

Is there Any way of taking Fabius Bile with the legions?? Kinda said he has his own book out and no rules.