Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Norchack wrote:
A few thoughts about the Imperator Titan:

Adeptus Titanicus is the perfect game for introducing an official scale model of the Imperator Titan. It is a model many of us have wanted for a long time and, as such, would sell quite well. It is also the only scale GW produce in which it is feasible, so if we're every going to see one, this is the only game in which it is possible. I'd rather see one (and have the opportunity to own one) than not.

I get that you want an Imperator.

I understand that. Really, I do.

But you're talking about adding an Imperator to a game that already has a laundry list of things that people want added to it. And quite frankly, I'd much rather see Phantoms and Gargants before I see Imperators. We know that Forge World is short-handed. That's been mentioned many times. It's been discussed here repeatedly that FW putting time into one project (or game) means that they're not putting time into another project (or game). So, to put it bluntly, what you're basically asking is that Forge World *not* work on introducing other races that could be used in the same scenarios as the Imperial forces we have now so that you can get an Imperator that will only be usable in specialized games.

When the game has been properly built up and out, then by all means add an Imperator. But again, I want to see Phantoms and Gargants first. And I'll be extremely irritated if I see an Imperator released before I see other races added to the game. Yes, I realize that FW has not promised that we'll see other races. But if we don't see other races, then I don't want to see an Imperator. It's that simple.

Forge World is going to produce what Forge World is going to produce.

I don't kid myself into thinking that my Dakka post is going to change their course one iota. They've already mentioned that Titanicus is planned two years out.

Might an Imperator be difficult on the table top; might it break the carefully crafted balance of Titanicus? Possibly yes; possibly no. We're not going to be the ones writing those rules.

Would I like to have one in my collection regardless? You bet.

 Albertorius wrote:
I would expect it to be about... Cerastus Knight height, I think? Probably quite bulkier, though.

Yeah, but were not talking about a model that's impractical for game use. The footprint isn't that much bigger than a AT Warlord

Err, that's exactly what we're talking about. Have you seen the more recent art of Imperators? Have you seen the Acastus, which is probably the closest model in terms of height & bulk to what an AT Imperator would end up as?

We're talking a 200mm+ base, compared to the Warlord's already pretty chonk 120mm.

Vorian wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
I would expect it to be about... Cerastus Knight height, I think? Probably quite bulkier, though.

Yeah, but were not talking about a model that's impractical for game use. The footprint isn't that much bigger than a AT Warlord

As I stated, I think that a Warlord is already pushing it... so YMMV. For me, it would be too big, and that's one of the reasons I don't usually play current 40K: it feels too bloated for me, as the big units that they are currently so fond of are actively anti-fun for me.

tneva82 wrote:
Need to be at least 15cm long and quite thick trees needed. In several rows as top is generally wider than bottom so there\s going to be gaps at bottom.

Yes? So? I've got plenty of model trees the same height or taller than a Warlord; you write as if these are unusual things that are hard to find. And most of them are conical or mostly cylindrical. On a big enough area they'll block LOS between titans. Some of them will allow Knights to gain LOS while being obscured in return, but that's a feature, not a bug.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gorgon wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Need to be at least 15cm long and quite thick trees needed. In several rows as top is generally wider than bottom so there\s going to be gaps at bottom.

I dunno. I'd rather put trees half that size on my table and have things look more to scale. Your average tree isn't 120 feet tall.

https://www.earthmagazine.org/article/map-reveals-height-worlds-forests

"The map shows that the temperate forests of the U.S. Pacific Northwest have among the tallest canopies at 40 meters — perhaps no big surprise for the home of the sequoia and those redwood forests of song. Most tropical rainforests and temperate forests proved to be about the same height at 25 meters, whereas the northern boreal and primarily evergreen forests tended to be about 20 meters in height."

English Oaks and various varieties of pine trees will get to 30 metres. Giant redwoods are over 100 metres.

Even if you model your forests at a scale 20 metres, that's plenty to block LOS for Warhounds, Reavers and the arm weapons on Warlords.

Vorian wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
I would expect it to be about... Cerastus Knight height, I think? Probably quite bulkier, though.

Yeah, but were not talking about a model that's impractical for game use. The footprint isn't that much bigger than a AT Warlord

If it's true scale to fluff it's 40k warhound size. Which towers above 40k knights. That is larger than at warlord. And it's not like imperator is thin...

Also it's not just model size but rules. Imperator is supposed to be powerfull. It's hard to make them make sense without being so powerfull that they cost so much they lose by being too powerfull like 40k titans. Warlord titan could be like 1500 pts and still autolose...

At some point when you up the power system just breaks sooner or later

 Imateria wrote:
Not mine.

Don't lie, you know you want one!

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Need to be at least 15cm long and quite thick trees needed. In several rows as top is generally wider than bottom so there\s going to be gaps at bottom.

I dunno. I'd rather put trees half that size on my table and have things look more to scale. Your average tree isn't 120 feet tall.

https://www.earthmagazine.org/article/map-reveals-height-worlds-forests

"The map shows that the temperate forests of the U.S. Pacific Northwest have among the tallest canopies at 40 meters — perhaps no big surprise for the home of the sequoia and those redwood forests of song. Most tropical rainforests and temperate forests proved to be about the same height at 25 meters, whereas the northern boreal and primarily evergreen forests tended to be about 20 meters in height."

English Oaks and various varieties of pine trees will get to 30 metres. Giant redwoods are over 100 metres.

Even if you model your forests at a scale 20 metres, that's plenty to block LOS for Warhounds, Reavers and the arm weapons on Warlords.

Trees of that height will look better for urban forests and parklands, IMO. And -1 and -2 mods are still impactful in the game. If someone wants their AT table to be a redwood (or alien equivalent) forest, that's cool. It's just that sometimes the tree models used for that purpose end up looking like 28mm trees being used for a 6mm game, if that makes sense.

It's more that the trees we use in 28mm games are usually thickets of shrubs rather than decent-sized woods.

Personally, I agree to an extent; demanding that all terrain must block LOS or it's useless is too extreme, but having woodlands big enough to do so isn't unrealistic. Even areas granting only a -1 to hit penalty and slowing movement will be useful.

I mean, guys, it's not hard. If you want a forest table with LoS blocking terrain but don't want giant trees, put some trees on a hill...

I knew it, Alan Titchmarch is behind this! All this talk of trees is his doing!

And all this time the clue lied in the initials...

Thoughts on Terrain:

GW/Forgeworld are placing priority on cityscape terrain for Adeptus Titanicus because it accentuates the scale of a titan and allows them to utilize a design aesthetic that is specific to their IP.

Is it really hard for people to imagine counting an area of Forest with trees of Warlord height as blocking line of sight from being drawn across it, the same as if it were a big solid building, but with the added bonus of letting models move through it.

Its simple abstraction.

Make it even more fun and have forests be in the normal modular fashion where each tree is on a seperate base. But in the case of AT, instead of moving the trees around to accomodate models which are inside the area terrain, when titans move into and across areas of forest, the trees that their bases would 'touch' are removed from the game to reflect them toppling the trees with their bulk. Which then would open up spaces for clear lines of sight to be drawn.

T̶r̶e̶e̶s̶
A̶d̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶o̶s̶t̶ ̶e̶p̶i̶c̶ ̶m̶o̶d̶e̶l̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶g̶a̶m̶e̶

SamusDrake wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
Not mine.

Don't lie, you know you want one!

I fething despise the Imperator, a god aweful concept and the specialist games team would be much better off putting their resources into something useful, like Xenos titans.

puzzledust wrote:


T̶r̶e̶e̶s̶
A̶d̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶o̶s̶t̶ ̶e̶p̶i̶c̶ ̶m̶o̶d̶e̶l̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶g̶a̶m̶e̶

Please don't stalk Dakka posters & post their real life photos online

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Is it really hard for people to imagine counting an area of Forest with trees of Warlord height as blocking line of sight from being drawn across it, the same as if it were a big solid building, but with the added bonus of letting models move through it.

Its simple abstraction.

Make it even more fun and have forests be in the normal modular fashion where each tree is on a seperate base. But in the case of AT, instead of moving the trees around to accomodate models which are inside the area terrain, when titans move into and across areas of forest, the trees that their bases would 'touch' are removed from the game to reflect them toppling the trees with their bulk. Which then would open up spaces for clear lines of sight to be drawn.

I love that idea! Crushing trunks under your tread sounds like an awesome visual. I need 50 stands of trees and bushes right now.

 Imateria wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
Not mine.

Don't lie, you know you want one!

I fething despise the Imperator, a god aweful concept and the specialist games team would be much better off putting their resources into something useful, like Xenos titans.

Are you sure? Positive? He does carry a Cathedral on his shoulders and has guns coming out of his legs...we must not forget that!

Being serious though, I would buy a set of Wrath Knights in a heart beat. And this fella should definitely be a thing in Titanicus...

That is so fething cwute ^_^

Really hoping they move onto the classic expansion weapons before long.

Trident could be easily reworked into Ursus Claws. And I’m currently wondering what other fun we might get.

After seeing that Ork... thing... I just realized that I would probably quite happily buy a Funko Pop Great Gargant.

Yeah. Gargants will always have a special place in my Titanicus heart.

I'm liking the idea of making their Boilerz something that has to be kept in a middle ground - not too hot and not too cold...

 schoon wrote:
Yeah. Gargants will always have a special place in my Titanicus heart.

I'm liking the idea of making their Boilerz something that has to be kept in a middle ground - not too hot and not too cold...

Gargants aren't all that steam thing though. That would be specifically the steam gargant's ground for feral orks.

For normal gargants they used to have one time shields and lots of them. Maybe no option for voids to full either. However once shields would be down they would take quite a pummeling so lots of tracks and maybe require two locations be critted out before out of action? The defining gargant thing is them keep coming closer despite in flames spitting death and mayhem while doing that.

Plus of course tons of dices but low chance to hit though please no BS5+ gargants. We don't want their shooting to be as inefficient as in 40k where they need strategems and specific units to shoot scarily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Is it really hard for people to imagine counting an area of Forest with trees of Warlord height as blocking line of sight from being drawn across it, the same as if it were a big solid building, but with the added bonus of letting models move through it.

Its simple abstraction.

Make it even more fun and have forests be in the normal modular fashion where each tree is on a seperate base. But in the case of AT, instead of moving the trees around to accomodate models which are inside the area terrain, when titans move into and across areas of forest, the trees that their bases would 'touch' are removed from the game to reflect them toppling the trees with their bulk. Which then would open up spaces for clear lines of sight to be drawn.

Check the rulebook. Rules should work without people having to house rule things around. The AT works with idea of TLOS. Not abstracted LOS.

Homebrew stuff, but if you'd like to get your Gargants on the table, I've been working on some rules here:
Engine War: Orks in Adeptus Titanicus.

The Great Gargant command terminal is ready for beta-testing, so if you have the time, please let me know. Weapons are still WIP, so for the moment, you can substitute Warlord weapons.

Soooo BS5...Basically hit on 6's always. Did AT even have 6's always hit or are you looking at automatic misses all the time?

You need like 3x shots of imperial equilavance to make it work.

I feel Orks should have a fairly flat 4+ to hit. After all, they're not relying on fancyshmancy gubbins like sensoriums. There's probably a Grot up a stikk shoutin' left a bit, right a bit, and that's yer lot. Or they're just peeping out the firing hatch, sticking their tongue out the corner of their gob, and getting the gun lined up about nice. Either way, hard to reduce their accuracy.

We're also talking about targeting Titans. Even Warhounds are relatively plodding, and aren't going to be doing the old dip, dodge, duck and dive that infantry would - so they're much easier targets, even for a Gargant.

There's also a background argument that dakkaboyz aboard a Gargant are more disciplined, in so far as they know to actually point the gun, then pull the trigger. And those on gunz with loadsa dakka probably have so much dakka, it does improve their accuracy (little point in giving tons of shots with a rubbish to hit, when you can reduce the shots and up the to hit).

Nah if you are mostly hidden by building you shouldn't be as easy to hit as if you are in open. No 40k laser guided missiles that fire from 1mm tiny holes unimpeded to AT please.

BS4+ is fine. You have worse accuracy than imperials(checks), cover helps against it(check) but you aren't totally screwed by just -1(which halves vs BS5+) and depending on did AT have automatic hit on 6(memory escapes as don't recall that ever having been case for me I would go to 7+) make immune.

And there is point having tons of shot with worse BS. Terrain. Cover. If you want orks to ignore it only fair(and more sensible) for imperial titans to ignore as well. But we don't want 40k bs where you hit without issues as long as you see enemy through even 1mm hole(and in 40k from tip of finger to tip of enemy finger resulting in land raiders unable to block LOS to behind them etc)

Fair points.

5+ base is defo too low though.

Which is why 4+ fits just fine. No need to copy 40k stat lines. Orks can be 5+ there and 4+ here. Different game systems. 40k also doesn't have -1 to hit quite as easy as AT where any terrain can provide that to all and even other titans can be used to provide -1 to hit to others(luckily AT doesn't have -1 to hit trait legion...Even thought of that needs to burn in hell! That would become the most powerful legion by far). Seeing modifiers hurt the more the lower BS is having 5+ when -1 to hit is fairly trivial to get...Yeah not good idea.

d6 limits but if we want orks to hit less than imperials then 4+ is pretty much perfect.