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JWBS wrote:
Right, but what's the alternative then?

Not doing it all again, that's the lesson.


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 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I personally like the idea that the main reason it is a secret is just because the forge worlds want to keep them in their pocket. No, of course it's not a different class of titan that would be helpful fighting in the great crusade, it's just a nemesis warlord siege titan testbed. No reason to send them out when we are sending plenty of warlords and reivers already, and we/they are safer if they just stay at home.

They never explain in the initial warmaster fluff how something held secret only on mars was all of a sudden in every single legio's arsenal, now they're literally doing that again, and if only the fluff suffered I wouldn't care, its not just the fluff suffering for having to pretend this is some whole new titan, it's the game suffering. You can't swap arms or even the ancillary reactors with the warmaster, this isn't good for the game and it's a really weird way to go with a 160$ model.


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SamusDrake wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

The biggest problem is there are now 2 sets of rules for the asterius because the other acastus terminals have both.

Its a problem for players who converted their Porphyrions,

It's a problem for GW, not them. They never saw fit to fix the acastus terminals and still have the audacity to sell them in boxes of 5... literally 5. So as an owner of said terminal, I have every intention of using it until they update it, which they haven't seen fit to do as of yet.




The iconoclast titan is like if when they released the second warlord box, they made it a warlord "weshamelesstothelast" class titan, wrote some terrible fluff explaining why you can't swap weapons with the other warlord because reasons and said give us money. They sold the warlord sprues separately and ruleswise didn't make up some bs to not allow you to swap weapons from one warlord to another.

The new warmaster, they're not selling the sprue, so even people who don't play, pure modelling wise who just want to add to their existing warmaster can't do that either. Also, marketing wise it demands that its its own thing, they're gonna send it to a bunch of people who likely already painted the last warmaster and ask them to do a whole new one, just because they came up with some arms, a new head and a new carapace weapon.

"Things held secret appearing all over the place" is both trivial and often alluded to in the lore, that's a non-issue entirely. Especially so in the Heresy texts, where it's written canon that new experimental tech popped up on both sides and was immediately put on production by their enemies since the Mechanicum civil war raged on in the galactic information network their shrines had.

The non-interchangeability with the basic Warmaster is stupid, but still pretty low on the ladder of things to be too fussed about.

 Sherrypie wrote:
"Things held secret appearing all over the place" is both trivial and often alluded to in the lore, that's a non-issue entirely. Especially so in the Heresy texts, where it's written canon that new experimental tech popped up on both sides and was immediately put on production by their enemies since the Mechanicum civil war raged on in the galactic information network their shrines had.

The non-interchangeability with the basic Warmaster is stupid, but still pretty low on the ladder of things to be too fussed about.

It's pretty indefensible, honestly.


It would be like defending this if they did the same when releasing the second warlord box

Reading lots of moaning about not being able to swap out the weapons. Anyone care to explain the reason why you can't, they all look pretty modular enough.

 TheSecretSquig wrote:
Reading lots of moaning about not being able to swap out the weapons. Anyone care to explain the reason why you can't, they all look pretty modular enough.

Its more that the rules do not support mixing and matching loadouts.

 TheSecretSquig wrote:
Reading lots of moaning about not being able to swap out the weapons. Anyone care to explain the reason why you can't, they all look pretty modular enough.

They're modular, but rules don't allow for swapping out weapons. So you can't have a Warmaster with a Plasma and a Chainsword, for example.

 Crablezworth wrote:


It's a problem for GW, not them. They never saw fit to fix the acastus terminals and still have the audacity to sell them in boxes of 5... literally 5. So as an owner of said terminal, I have every intention of using it until they update it, which they haven't seen fit to do as of yet.

When using the Asterius in more official venues( such as tournaments ) then its going to be a problem for the player; they'll expect the most updated rules that support official models. As the Asterius now comes bundled with those rules then they'll go with that. GW can just sit back and say "Forgeworld provides the model and latest rules for the Asterius. Here's a link to their site and you can order it right now".

I definitely agree that the Acastus Terminal set is a big problem that should have been addressed by now...

For me I just gimped the terminal image from the GW site and coupled it with the FAQ rules. But if GW wants me to purchase that terminal set and further Porphyrion kits then they must ditch the auxilary rule. I can totally get behind GW by drastrically increasing their point values and halving their banner size( they were definitely wrong and had to be fixed ) but the auxiliary rule just doesn't make sense at all - especially when it affects the sales of that kit and the Acastus terminal pack. But if the bean-counters at GW are happy with the sales results thus far then its all good for them.

But from day one I knew that the Porphyrion rules would change and the Terminal set is a waste of money. In hind sight I'm glad I held back in that regard.

Any reviews posted for the Traitor Legios book yet? Eagerly waiting to see what tweaks have been made.

I fully expect to see the separate weapon cards & command terminal products being scrapped before too long, and instead the original titan & knight kits will be reboxed to include thin card ones.

If they were *that* profitable GW would have kept selling heavy cardstock accessories for the newer releases, but I suspect that supply issues in recent years make it easier to use the lighter versions instead.

It's not unheard of that secrecy means that a weapon system that would have been really useful isn't actually used

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canal_Defence_Light

once it's secret enough nobody who might actually use it is in the know, and the really senior people who do know about it aren't the ones involved in the ground level planning and exection of battle plans

So, the Warmaster has disappeared from pre orders?

Reddit people are saying they haven't seen Warmaster pre-order on EU/UK yet (when I checked today), but it's apparently up on US and Antipodes.

JWBS wrote:
Reddit people are saying they haven't seen Warmaster pre-order on EU/UK yet (when I checked today), but it's apparently up on US and Antipodes.

It was available earlier but has vanished now

I hope that it’s because they’ve received such a backlash over the no mixing Warmaster weapons ridiculousness that they’ve pulled the release until they reprint the card

 zedmeister wrote:
I hope that it’s because they’ve received such a backlash over the no mixing Warmaster weapons ridiculousness that they’ve pulled the release until they reprint the card

Has GW ever reprinted anything in the past few years, instead of just pushing out a FAQ?

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:


Has GW ever reprinted anything in the past few years, instead of just pushing out a FAQ?

In all honesty, no idea but probably not. However, Titanicus has had a fair share of card teasers where things changed later on, on release

There's a Facebook reply saying the Iconoclast is delayed by a week for some regions

I was really hoping that there would be another budle with some good savings. Slightly annoyed I didn't get the last one as it included all the models I did not currently own.

Guess I'll just wait till Christmas to see if anything shows up!

I'd say there's a very good chance of a Titanicus xmas bundle. The mid-year maniple bundle was pretty much the best bundle they're ever done for any system imo and it was just randomly thrown out there, I gotta assume it would have been meant for xmas 2020 but got delayed.

SamusDrake wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:


It's a problem for GW, not them. They never saw fit to fix the acastus terminals and still have the audacity to sell them in boxes of 5... literally 5. So as an owner of said terminal, I have every intention of using it until they update it, which they haven't seen fit to do as of yet.

When using the Asterius in more official venues( such as tournaments ) then its going to be a problem for the player; they'll expect the most updated rules that support official models. As the Asterius now comes bundled with those rules then they'll go with that. GW can just sit back and say "Forgeworld provides the model and latest rules for the Asterius. Here's a link to their site and you can order it right now".

It's not that simple, the old terminal allows mixing and matching of both types as its one unit, so until they make a new porphyrion only terminal, they've got a real pickle on their hands.


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 xttz wrote:
I fully expect to see the separate weapon cards & command terminal products being scrapped before too long, and instead the original titan & knight kits will be reboxed to include thin card ones.

If they were *that* profitable GW would have kept selling heavy cardstock accessories for the newer releases, but I suspect that supply issues in recent years make it easier to use the lighter versions instead.

The sad part is the thin paper ones are more of a headache than the nicer cardstock ones, it's unfortunate because I don't mind paying for the nicer terminals seeing as they get used and are central to every game.

I think what's happening here is GW no longer likes the modularity because of battle bling and other third party options.


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 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 TheSecretSquig wrote:
Reading lots of moaning about not being able to swap out the weapons. Anyone care to explain the reason why you can't, they all look pretty modular enough.

They're modular, but rules don't allow for swapping out weapons. So you can't have a Warmaster with a Plasma and a Chainsword, for example.

Which is all this humble princeps wanted dare I say :(


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 xttz wrote:
There's a Facebook reply saying the Iconoclast is delayed by a week for some regions

What's weird too is the locations, like it's inverse of what we'd think in terms of distance from uk and general supply chain stuff, it's also apparently causing confusion because it's direct only but the retailers weren't all told the same thing so some took pre orders.


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 Marshal Loss wrote:
Any reviews posted for the Traitor Legios book yet? Eagerly waiting to see what tweaks have been made.

My guess is goonhammer should have something soon, maybe wed?

 Crablezworth wrote:

It's not that simple, the old terminal allows mixing and matching of both types as its one unit, so until they make a new porphyrion only terminal, they've got a real pickle on their hands.

If the host of an event says that the FW terminal is the requirement then it would be that simple; the player would have to use the FW terminal. They can also make it that only the official model is allowed too, should they be really draconian about it.

SamusDrake wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

It's not that simple, the old terminal allows mixing and matching of both types as its one unit, so until they make a new porphyrion only terminal, they've got a real pickle on their hands.

If the host of an event says that the FW terminal is the requirement then it would be that simple; the player would have to use the FW terminal. They can also make it that only the official model is allowed too, should they be really draconian about it.

Or they ban it all together, which hasn't exactly been uncommon. I know I don't want to field mine unless my opponent either field one of theirs or is okay with it. Even then, feels so undercosted. Some places also ban the porphyrions too much for the same reason. This is something they had a c hance to address and again chose to sell models over choices made for the betterment of the game. Poor stewardship on gw's part sadly.

They had a chance to update it and remove blast or at least make it much more expensive, they did neither. Upsetting. I like that they added auto simulacra, but the reality is, it got even better and went up all of 10pts. I also don't see events solely banning non official ones if they do indeed allow them. Seens too vindictive for something that's had a terminal and no model for a few years til now, people rightfully converted their own after that much waiting.

For what its worth, I'm actually all for using whatever rules are to hand and house-ruling if the situation calls for it. I have a soft-spot for conversions and scratch builds and if you brought your converted Porphyrions to my table then you would be most welcome. Beers in the fridge, Pringles in the cupboard.

SamusDrake wrote:
For what its worth, I'm actually all for using whatever rules are to hand and house-ruling if the situation calls for it. I have a soft-spot for conversions and scratch builds and if you brought your converted Porphyrions to my table then you would be most welcome. Beers in the fridge, Pringles in the cupboard.

I'm sure we'd get along and have some good games. And pringles rock!

In my case in terms of gaming locally, like I've been trying very hard to get people here to play and when GW does stuff like this, it's really demoralizing. It feels like I'm selling a story of "they've changed man, they made a really great game this time and they seem to be supporting it pretty well" and now it just feels like I have to apologize for gw as if they're a friend whose fallen off the horse so to speak. "He's changed man" "Wasn't he arrested last week for fraud" "Well ya but ya see that was the person who he was defrauding's fault so". I dunno, tired of apologizing for GW just to keep people in the game. I've got one friend who has stopped playing AT and it's directly because of GW, I can't sadly just tell him he's wrong for feeling the way he does about the game, the company or where things are going. Like my best try is basically saying "well ya the company is awful and the fans are often cult like but me and you can still have some fun games" and now GW does this, even I'm starting to want to give up on AT. Le sigh.

Wasn’t there plans for an app that would have the terminals?

Most of the better AT tournaments out there have been independently run, and have had their own FAQ and adjustments to some of the more... problematic... terminals and/or cards.

So I'm not sure if something not explicit to the rule books is going to stop anyone.

 Crablezworth wrote:


In my case in terms of gaming locally, like I've been trying very hard to get people here to play and when GW does stuff like this, it's really demoralizing. It feels like I'm selling a story of "they've changed man, they made a really great game this time and they seem to be supporting it pretty well" and now it just feels like I have to apologize for gw as if they're a friend whose fallen off the horse so to speak. "He's changed man" "Wasn't he arrested last week for fraud" "Well ya but ya see that was the person who he was defrauding's fault so". I dunno, tired of apologizing for GW just to keep people in the game. I've got one friend who has stopped playing AT and it's directly because of GW, I can't sadly just tell him he's wrong for feeling the way he does about the game, the company or where things are going. Like my best try is basically saying "well ya the company is awful and the fans are often cult like but me and you can still have some fun games" and now GW does this, even I'm starting to want to give up on AT. Le sigh.

Compared to today it certainly feels like they were a reformed company back in 2018, doesn't it? As a customer of late I feel like Mr Kinney turning up for Dick Jones' latest boardroom meeting whenever previews are shown, prices revealed and articles uploaded...

 schoon wrote:
Most of the better AT tournaments out there have been independently run, and have had their own FAQ and adjustments to some of the more... problematic... terminals and/or cards.

So I'm not sure if something not explicit to the rule books is going to stop anyone.

Banning something is easier than fixing something I would say. GW just had a chance to get a unit off the ban list, the asterius, they chose to do nothing.

I think with the warmaster the player base needs to let them know how unacceptable it is, and to have them faq it so they stop trying this cynical stuff with future releases. Like it's a game with all of 5 titan chasis, did they think players wouldn't notice?

 Crablezworth wrote:
Like it's a game with all of 5 titan chasis, did they think players wouldn't notice?

It could be far worse; Household players realistically only have two knights to choose from to make their lances. You can have a lance of Questoris...or - wait for it - a lance of Cerastus! But joy - we can also purchase slightly different FW versions for twice the price! Aren't we the lucky ones!

Gits...


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Just emailed customer services about the confusion as to whether the Warmaster and Iconoclast weapon cards are interchangable or not. As soon as I get the reply I'll let you know what the final word is.

I've also put in complaints regarding the Acastus terminal set and the Castigator & Acheron set, for added measure. They are doing themselves out of sales over small things that are easily remedied with a new FAQ pdf.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/03/behold-the-iconoclast-titan-weapons-that-can-fell-a-lesser-god-engine-in-one-swing/



Details on the Iconoclast weapon cards at last.

I'm a little underwhelmed tbh. The warmaster has a 5+ basic weapon skill, so that big scary chainsword is going to be hitting on 4+ within 2". Not great for targeted attacks.