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Centurion dreadnoughts! With four twinlinked grav cannons that reroll their rerolls of their rerolls!

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Hear me out on this.

What about a space marine........

Inside of a space marine..........

Inside a third space marine?

Broski that's already been done. Grey Knights are Elite Space Marines and Custodes are Eliter space marines.

What you're really looking for is a space marine to the power of 4.

 EnsignTuna wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Hear me out on this.

What about a space marine........

Inside of a space marine..........

Inside a third space marine?

Broski that's already been done. Grey Knights are Elite Space Marines and Custodes are Eliter space marines.

What you're really looking for is a space marine to the power of 4.

Centurion dreadnoughts that pilot super heavy jump walkers?

 Gamgee wrote:
Almost no one plays 30k with other factions than marines.

Where you are, maybe. But you have not done very thorough research on this, I imagine.

Even then marine players would bitch we are infecting their game and other crap.

Pointless inflammatory comment is pointless (and ironic). Your post would have been intact with this bit gone.

I mean look at 40k now. Almost nothing but Space Marines...

There's more non-Marine factions than Marine factions.

Marines are common among players because people like them, buy them, and play them. Not much you can do about that.

I don't doubt it'a s very real possibility all the Xenos might stop getting support for 8th 40k.

Is this serious?

Martel732 wrote:

 EnsignTuna wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Hear me out on this.

What about a space marine........

Inside of a space marine..........

Inside a third space marine?

Broski that's already been done. Grey Knights are Elite Space Marines and Custodes are Eliter space marines.

What you're really looking for is a space marine to the power of 4.

Centurion dreadnoughts that pilot super heavy jump walkers?

Add "Primarch piloted" and I think we have the ultimate space marine.

 EnsignTuna wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 EnsignTuna wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Hear me out on this.

What about a space marine........

Inside of a space marine..........

Inside a third space marine?

Broski that's already been done. Grey Knights are Elite Space Marines and Custodes are Eliter space marines.

What you're really looking for is a space marine to the power of 4.

Centurion dreadnoughts that pilot super heavy jump walkers?

Add "Primarch piloted" and I think we have the ultimate space marine.

Better idea.

Add one dreadnought, Add one Knight Titan... Put into Giant Blender...

Get DreadTitan....

 Ashiraya wrote:


There's more non-Marine factions than Marine factions.

Marines are common among players because people like them, buy them, and play them. Not much you can do about that.

Actually there are 20ish different armies, half of them belong to the imperium faction. It's kinda silly.

If marines get nerfed badly and become bottom tiers they wouldn't be that popular and sell so much I guess.

If Marine got less releases, less publicity, less buffs....
Less Attention

As for the original question I'm going to say 'no', and I'll keep screaming it into eternity and getting no reply except for more Space Marines.

Baseless conjecture: maybe the Emperor will get killed/"released" and ascend to full godhood as a warp entity. The new super-duper marines might be "Imperial" daemons in power armor.

That might actually be kind of cool, although if The Emprah's daemons get banished back into the warp instead of truly dying and he can just send them back that wouldn't that be an awful lot like Stormcast Eternals?

They should of stopped before Dreadknights...everything extra since has been unnecessary and one of those 'oh we've always had these weird flying ships, special walkers, centurions, GRAV, and Chaos Marines are like "WTF? Why don't we have Centurions and GRAV? The HELL!?

Seriously need to take out the Lucille grade nerf bat and hit EVERYTHING space marine...and grey knights twice over.

*end minor rant*

So briney around here. I'm choking on all the salt....

This notion that people buy Space Marines because that line is supported, and not because they're the most appealing faction in the game to them.... Sorry guys, I don't buy it. It's hogwash.

There's a specific kind of gamer who will pick up an army because the meta favors it, but it's the minority. People are going to put dozen, maybe hundreds, possibly thousands of hours collecting, painting, and learning to play an army just to bully other nerds with an OP list? No. Most of us play the armies we play because they excite our imagination. Space Marines are human enough to be relateable, and Uber enough to represent something we wish we could aspire to be. It's just a winning formula.

Only a certain number of people are going to be excited by space bugs or S&M elves to the degree required to put in the time, effort, and money to build an army. It doesn't matter how many new models or rules they release.

That said, some support would increase the sales on some of these Xenos factions from where they are now, I'm sure. GW has alienated (no pun intended) a lot of those players, and needs to do something to get them invested in the game again.

A lot of this stuff we're still seeing comin out was likely in the pipe before the new management took over at GW. Let's see where they take Eighth. I have a feeling that a lot of the things we're seeing now were supposed to BE eighth, but they want a clean slate, so they can do it right. It really seems like they give a gak again, and I'm really hopeful about it.

 Weboflies wrote:
This notion that people buy Space Marines because that line is supported, and not because they're the most appealing faction in the game to them.... Sorry guys, I don't buy it. It's hogwash.

So what new models are there for Sisters players or potential Sisters players to buy?

The fact is, if GW doesn't make a new product, people can't buy the new product. GW makes tons of Space Marine products with lots of variety and tons of options... so there's more stuff for them to buy. More chances for each individual item to be the one that appeals to them and gets them to shell out money. For a hobby like 40k, having only old stuff to buy and almost no new rules means people eventually just don't need to buy any more of the product and they have all they'll ever need or want.

I don't think you read my post. See the part where I aknowledge that sales have benn supressed on a lot of the other lines due to neglect? The thing is, if and when they do pick up the ball on armies like sisters, it's not going to do anything to challenge Space Marines's standing as the most popular faction, and that's because SM is the faction that, based on their ethos, design, and fluff, is the most appealing to the kind of people who are likely to invest in taking part in this game.

I think a lot of people start playing Space Marines because they're cool. I think they're really cool, but I don't play them because I'm a hipster (also because my brother plays them). They're also a good starter army because they're relatively affordable and easy to paint.

Space Marines are always going to be popular, and it makes sense for GW to release more stuff for more popular armies. That said, if some other armies suffer from severe neglect then they are not going to be as popular as they could be. I think IG would be a lot more popular if they had a wider range of plastics available, and Sisters would be more a lot more popular if they had any plastics available. I would disagree slightly about the rules, as a lot of people pick up a second or third army, and I think they might be less inclined to go with an army that has had bad rules for a while.

Maybe we're mostly saying the same thing?

 Weboflies wrote:
I don't think you read my post. See the part where I aknowledge that sales have benn supressed on a lot of the other lines due to neglect? The thing is, if and when they do pick up the ball on armies like sisters, it's not going to do anything to challenge Space Marines's standing as the most popular faction, and that's because SM is the faction that, based on their ethos, design, and fluff, is the most appealing to the kind of people who are likely to invest in taking part in this game.

The problem with that rhetoric...though I do see and acknowledge your point, is 'most' people don't collect space marine armies because they 'like' them. Per Se. They are heavily collected because 1. They are in almost(if not EVERY) every starter set, so someone getting into the game, already has the 'meat' of a space marine army in their lap.

2. Rule for rule, punch for punch, dice for dice, Space Marines are superior in the long run of the rules to every other army. (Note I'm lumping the specialists in with the vanilla here.) People and cry about the Eldar, and Tau, but other then the Crons (Who still have a small number of choices to collect in comparison) there isn't a stronger core of armies to pick from. Pick even the 'weakest' in meta chapter and it'll have the tools to win at the very least in a semi-competitive environment. Where as 'sometimes' a xenos army is scary, or 'top tier', it doesn't last as it's often Lucilled in the skull back under the good boys in power armor next edition. So they appeal to WAACers out there.

3. Space Marines have some of the most unnecessary units in the game that destroy the reason to take other units, just to name examples: Stormhawks, Centurions (something that should have NEVER happened), Hunter/Stalker (pic one! IG only has the Hydra for example, and other armies rarely have a dedicated AA tank, let alone TWO!), ALL of the Horus Heresy stuff now popping up for use in 40k including Contemptors and special termie suits. Corvus Blackstar, Dreadknights, Stormwolf/fang, and all of the Adeptus Custodes.

4. Speaking of every time we get buried by yet another WAAC bait unit for Space Marines, with it's fancy this and that's, there's the fluff instances where this stuff gets shoehorned in and crammed down our throats like it's 'always' been there. Stormravens used to be BA and GK only and very few in number, but GW retconned it and now EVERYONE has them in the hundreds! (slight exaggeration.) If GRAV, Centurions, all these flyers and overdesigned junk were always there? Why don't Chaos Space Marines have them? Now OLD Fluff said things like Land Speeders and Razorbacks, were introduced AFTER the Heresy, so that would explain that well enough, but don't give me this junk that Space Marines get all these fancy toys, that they'd had since the Emperor left Terra now, JUST because you want to sell kits.

Only if they actually make them different and not just the same old same old with new paint.

 Weboflies wrote:
So briney around here. I'm choking on all the salt....

This notion that people buy Space Marines because that line is supported, and not because they're the most appealing faction in the game to them.... Sorry guys, I don't buy it. It's hogwash.
.

Perhaps if something other than Marines was released for once.... Perhaps if GW released new shiny for something other than Marines..... Perhaps if another race had the slightest mention.... Perhaps if Marines where not shoehorned into EVERYTHING, even the last stand of another factions iconic world..... Perhaps if the glory boys where not made out to be the bestest of the bestest..... perhaps if GW actually supported another line...... Perhaps if other lines where not forced to rely on overpriced and poorly sculpted 18+ year old models for the majority of their units (and usually their core choices)......

Yeah, once you ignore all of the above the success of Space marines is obviously due to them being really good/everyones dream.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Baseless conjecture: maybe the Emperor will get killed/"released" and ascend to full godhood as a warp entity. The new super-duper marines might be "Imperial" daemons in power armor.

That might actually be kind of cool, although if The Emprah's daemons get banished back into the warp instead of truly dying and he can just send them back that wouldn't that be an awful lot like Stormcast Eternals?

That's what the Legion of the Damned are speculated to be.

For what it's worth, when I got into 40k I very intentionally chose space marines because I knew the army would be supported. Coming from WFB, I knew how GW did their thing, and I knew most armies tend to languish in purgatory for extended periods of time, except space marines. I really wanted to play either guards or orcs, coming from WFB where I played empire, bretonnia, and orcs. Glad I didn't, looking back and playing games against those armies now.

When I say supported I don't mean top tier competitive either. But they are guaranteed to have their rules and models updated every edition, and often throughout editions. Even if a release seems a bit lackluster, I know it won't be forever and there's a good chance someone at GW actually notices and does something about it. Even the "bad" units for space marines aren't anywhere near bottom tier unusable stuff.

So the Colonial Marines are updating their arsenal yet again to suit current military trends and this time going true-scale to do it right.

Sounds legit. (I saw a photo, probably fake, but it had a boltgun with a rail system.. lol)

Still, I want updated Imperial Guard.. I mean come on, I was watching a documentary about ISIS and one of the soldiers fighting them was wearing a bloody MICH helmet and what looked like a recent uniform.

This Cold War Cadia stuff is just boring.. it shouldn't represent what we consider standard military anymore (guardsmen still drink water out of water bottles FFS), I look at Tau Firewarriors and weep.

Personally I was issued 3 different canteens.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:


The problem with that rhetoric...though I do see and acknowledge your point, is 'most' people don't collect space marine armies because they 'like' them. Per Se. They are heavily collected because 1. They are in almost(if not EVERY) every starter set, so someone getting into the game, already has the 'meat' of a space marine army in their lap.

That's crazy talk. People put hundreds/ thousands of hours/ dollars into something not because they like it? Why is the other faction in each starter box not equally popular then? Why do you think many of those people buy the starter box in the first place?

2. Rule for rule, punch for punch, dice for dice, Space Marines are superior in the long run of the rules to every other army. (Note I'm lumping the specialists in with the vanilla here.) People and cry about the Eldar, and Tau, but other then the Crons (Who still have a small number of choices to collect in comparison) there isn't a stronger core of armies to pick from. Pick even the 'weakest' in meta chapter and it'll have the tools to win at the very least in a semi-competitive environment. Where as 'sometimes' a xenos army is scary, or 'top tier', it doesn't last as it's often Lucilled in the skull back under the good boys in power armor next edition. So they appeal to WAACers out there.

They have been consistently good over the years. So have Eldar and Tau, I'll believe either of those armies are going to get nerfed when I see it. Exactly what percentage of GW's customer base are WAAC players? How many of those people are choosing Marines over Tau and Eldar? How much of GW's customer base are collectors who don't even play?

 master of ordinance wrote:


Perhaps if something other than Marines was released for once.... Perhaps if GW released new shiny for something other than Marines..... Perhaps if another race had the slightest mention.... Perhaps if Marines where not shoehorned into EVERYTHING, even the last stand of another factions iconic world..... Perhaps if the glory boys where not made out to be the bestest of the bestest..... perhaps if GW actually supported another line...... Perhaps if other lines where not forced to rely on overpriced and poorly sculpted 18+ year old models for the majority of their units (and usually their core choices)......

Yeah, once you ignore all of the above the success of Space marines is obviously due to them being really good/everyones dream.

Hogwash. Every Xenos army except Tyranids has a 7th edition codex. Dark Eldar got tons of new models. Eldar on a few occasions has gotten all kinds of new OP gak, Harlequins got a new codex and models. Tau gets more broken all the time, Genestealer Cults just dropped with a whole new line of minis and a lot of powerful abilities, Chaos just got oodles of stuff

No one's trying to say there isn't armies out there that have been left behind, but the point here is that your assertion that people don't really like marines and they spend thousands of dollars and hours on their marine armies for any other reason than that they like them is a joke. Any cases of that being true are anecdotal and not representative of the norm whatsoever. Honestly, why do you guys play whatever armies you play? You throw down the cash regardless of their power level or support level. Why would Marine players be any different?

You guys are both doing a lot of moaning about SM getting a lot of options/ support, but shouldn't the most popular army get support? Should they give MORE support than they do to Marines to Xenos armies that don't generate as much interest? GW is a business, not a Social Justice advocacy group for rebels and aliens that don't exist in real life.

You guys are both doing a lot of moaning about SM getting a lot of options/ support, but shouldn't the most popular army get support? Should they give MORE support than they do to Marines to Xenos armies that don't generate as much interest? GW is a business, not a Social Justice advocacy group for rebels and aliens that don't exist in real life.

The problem is the current model is a self fulfilling prophecy - if you continually focus on one product line by ensuing that they are always having new models, always in every starter box set, have extremely powerful rules then it is going to sell very well - then you say hey - look at the sales for Marines better than anyone else - so lets make more of them - then do that for decades and you have the situation we have now. Everything is geared towards selling Marines and well some other stuff that they can fight - if you want but hey look Marines.

As you say Eldar and Tau have been given considerable (well in the Eldar case heavily OP) rules and model support - and guess what they sell well - imagine if you did that with other neglected factions!

Also they keep focussing on the same Chapters of Marines so they have to produce more and more outlandish "flavour" units for those same Chapters - so rather than producing the fluff based elite Terminators for Salamanders, or sniper /infiltration squads for Raven Guard for example we get Wolfy Wolf Wolf on his Wolf waving his Wolf sword and the Blood and Dark Angels are not much better. I used to love Space Wolves and Dark Angels but now.....

Slap in some cheese formations to help Marines win as well just in case you are not already tempted.

Even when models are produced for other Factions like St Celestine, they make it so she is used most effectively by Marines rather than her own Faction - they didn't bother giving her Acts of Faith.

Dark Eldar got a dismal 7th Ed Codex which is only usable in a few limited ways.

Martel732 wrote:
Centurion dreadnoughts! With four twinlinked grav cannons that reroll their rerolls of their rerolls!

7 twin linked grav cannons, one on each arm, each shoulder, both feet and the crotch plate for emphasis.

 Mr Morden wrote:

You guys are both doing a lot of moaning about SM getting a lot of options/ support, but shouldn't the most popular army get support? Should they give MORE support than they do to Marines to Xenos armies that don't generate as much interest? GW is a business, not a Social Justice advocacy group for rebels and aliens that don't exist in real life.

The problem is the current model is a self fulfilling prophecy - if you continually focus on one product line by ensuing that they are always having new models, always in every starter box set, have extremely powerful rules then it is going to sell very well - then you say hey - look at the sales for Marines better than anyone else - so lets make more of them - then do that for decades and you have the situation we have now. Everything is geared towards selling Marines and well some other stuff that they can fight - if you want but hey look Marines.

As you say Eldar and Tau have been given considerable (well in the Eldar case heavily OP) rules and model support - and guess what they sell well - imagine if you did that with other neglected factions!

Also they keep focussing on the same Chapters of Marines so they have to produce more and more outlandish "flavour" units for those same Chapters - so rather than producing the fluff based elite Terminators for Salamanders, or sniper /infiltration squads for Raven Guard for example we get Wolfy Wolf Wolf on his Wolf waving his Wolf sword and the Blood and Dark Angels are not much better. I used to love Space Wolves and Dark Angels but now.....

Slap in some cheese formations to help Marines win as well just in case you are not already tempted.

Even when models are produced for other Factions like St Celestine, they make it so she is used most effectively by Marines rather than her own Faction - they didn't bother giving her Acts of Faith.

Dark Eldar got a dismal 7th Ed Codex which is only usable in a few limited ways.

Marines have always been the most popular, and always will. It's just the most appealing faction to the most people fluff wise. Accept it.

I guess you missed the min 3 times I said myself that the neglected armies would generate more sales with more support. HOWEVER, they will never sell as well as Marines, and that's just the simple truth.

You loved SW and DA back when they were the same as every other marine chapter? If you love Codex Chapters, then there's plenty of those. Even if you want less Wolfy SW and less Dark DA, there are successor chapters, you can use those lists and only take the OG fluffy units you like, or you could create a Codex Chapter with whatever esthetic you please.

Exactly how does Celestine help Marines more than Sisters?...

The Dark Eldar Codex is not top tier. There's an argument to be made that they shouldn't be. They are a relatively small enclave that fights mostly to gather slaves. They're the furthest thing from being a major force in the Galaxy. They did a pure DE boxed game for the folks who like that army. No barrier to anyone so inclined to buying that. No Marines to spoil the fun. How much you want to bet sales on Burning of Prospero and Betrayal at Calth outstrip Gangs of Commorrah by a factor of 10 EACH?

I'll say it yet again. These other armies and their devoted players need and deserve support for their lines 8th is around the corner, and they will get it, BUT That doesn't mean it's reasonable for GW to be expected to set aside their flagship army to do so.

It is sort of a which comes first the chicken or the egg type situation:

Does GW spam marines because Timmy loves spam marines the best?
OR
Does Timmy love spam marines the best because GW spams marines?

It is probably a bit of both though as in a vicious/virtuous circle.

If you are fed up with too many marines on the tabletop then probably the best way is to get at Timmy and encourage him to look elsewhere. One could boycott players with marine armies... "Sorry chap I've played against SMs dozens of times, it is kind of boring now, looking to play against something else, Deldar or Tyranids or anything really."

Half the time SM are already have no one to fight except other SMs.

Then again when Timmy first gets into 40k he likely will not be running into many other players of the local meta until he has already sunk hundreds of pounds and almost as many hours buying and painting his Space Marines. At which point it is a little late to encourage him to play something else.

 Weboflies wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

You guys are both doing a lot of moaning about SM getting a lot of options/ support, but shouldn't the most popular army get support? Should they give MORE support than they do to Marines to Xenos armies that don't generate as much interest? GW is a business, not a Social Justice advocacy group for rebels and aliens that don't exist in real life.

The problem is the current model is a self fulfilling prophecy - if you continually focus on one product line by ensuing that they are always having new models, always in every starter box set, have extremely powerful rules then it is going to sell very well - then you say hey - look at the sales for Marines better than anyone else - so lets make more of them - then do that for decades and you have the situation we have now. Everything is geared towards selling Marines and well some other stuff that they can fight - if you want but hey look Marines.

As you say Eldar and Tau have been given considerable (well in the Eldar case heavily OP) rules and model support - and guess what they sell well - imagine if you did that with other neglected factions!

Also they keep focussing on the same Chapters of Marines so they have to produce more and more outlandish "flavour" units for those same Chapters - so rather than producing the fluff based elite Terminators for Salamanders, or sniper /infiltration squads for Raven Guard for example we get Wolfy Wolf Wolf on his Wolf waving his Wolf sword and the Blood and Dark Angels are not much better. I used to love Space Wolves and Dark Angels but now.....

Slap in some cheese formations to help Marines win as well just in case you are not already tempted.

Even when models are produced for other Factions like St Celestine, they make it so she is used most effectively by Marines rather than her own Faction - they didn't bother giving her Acts of Faith.

Dark Eldar got a dismal 7th Ed Codex which is only usable in a few limited ways.

Marines have always been the most popular, and always will. It's just the most appealing faction to the most people fluff wise. Accept it.

I guess you missed the min 3 times I said myself that the neglected armies would generate more sales with more support. HOWEVER, they will never sell as well as Marines, and that's just the simple truth.

You loved SW and DA back when they were the same as every other marine chapter? If you love Codex Chapters, then there's plenty of those. Even if you want less Wolfy SW and less Dark DA, there are successor chapters, you can use those lists and only take the OG fluffy units you like, or you could create a Codex Chapter with whatever esthetic you please.

Exactly how does Celestine help Marines more than Sisters?...

The Dark Eldar Codex is not top tier. There's an argument to be made that they shouldn't be. They are a relatively small enclave that fights mostly to gather slaves. They're the furthest thing from being a major force in the Galaxy. They did a pure DE boxed game for the folks who like that army. No barrier to anyone so inclined to buying that. No Marines to spoil the fun. How much you want to bet sales on Burning of Prospero and Betrayal at Calth outstrip Gangs of Commorrah by a factor of 10 EACH?

I'll say it yet again. These other armies and their devoted players need and deserve support for their lines 8th is around the corner, and they will get it,BUT That doesn't mean it's reasonable for GW to be expected to set aside their flagship army to do so .

I strongly disagree that any[u] Faction in the game should be inferior just because....which is what you are saying. The 5th Edition Codex was great, lots of fun options and playable - then then trashed it in the next one alongside a number of other 7th edition codexes.

Dark Eldar as a whole are a hell of lot more active and numerous than ANY Marine chapter and the Tau - guess they should all be low power by your reasoning.

No I loved Wolves and Dark Angels when they were not parodies of themselves, when they did not ride Wolf Sleighs pulled by Wolves - you know like I actually said in the post. When the actual background and the odd unit was enough to differentiate them, when they did not need all these crap flavour units. Again the point is that whilst they have a single minded obsession with Wolfy Wolf Wolf units they are not doing stuff for other factions or even other Marines that is not pure stupid.

As I specifically said Celestine does not have Acts of Faith and so her fellow Sisters can't use them if she is in their unit - buy hey stick her with Wolfen and guess what she is awesome. So yeah - good for all Imperial Armies - even better for marines - shocker.

Why exactly do you think that the neglected armies are getting more stuff in 8th ed?

BUT That doesn't mean it's reasonable for GW to be expected to set aside their flagship army to do so

That is not what people are saying - they are saying don't pour everything into them.

 Weboflies wrote:

The Dark Eldar Codex is not top tier. There's an argument to be made that they shouldn't be. They are a relatively small enclave that fights mostly to gather slaves. They're the furthest thing from being a major force in the Galaxy. They did a pure DE boxed game for the folks who like that army. No barrier to anyone so inclined to buying that. No Marines to spoil the fun.

But the Space Marines are also a relatively exceptionally small enclave that is also extremely far from a major force in the galaxy. If we were to actually try to use that reasoning, then the Imperial Guard would be the most supported army in the game, since the vast majority of the game's conflicts are fought by them.

I'll say it yet again. These other armies and their devoted players need and deserve support for their lines 8th is around the corner, and they will get it

20 years and still waiting for some...

No more space marines for a while... I find space marine releases tedious these days. Even CSM have had their moment for now, although some updated kits would be good (bikes, havocs, a plastic power armoured lord/sorcerer dual kit).

More interesting to me would be ork, tyranid, dark eldar and imperial guard releases. Tyranids and dark eldar are pretty well served for models but could do with new codices, or at the very least a kind of traitor legions style release for each. Decurions, chapter tactics etc. Orks and imperial guard need some models updating and probably their codices revamped too. I highly doubt any of these things will happen so maybe in the current climate the best I can hope for is campaign books featuring these factions with some cool new rules to strengthen them