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In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, in one of the latest scan leaks of the actual rules you can see that Gets Hot! on plasma weapons finally got nerfed. Now you actually have to go beyond the safety margins of the gun to trigger it:



Never made sense to me that one of the most common special weapons in the Imperium was so unreliable and deadly to the own user, in that case it would never have made it past protoype stage into a common-issue weapon (both because it kills the troopers using it as well as the expensive weapon itself). It also made melta weapons that much better in comparison, much less points, deadlier against vehicles and actually reliable. The chances you got to use your plasma gun at full range for one shot were unlikely and usually happened because you made a mistake or things went wrong (your plasma delivery unit's transport getting popped).

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, in one of the latest scan leaks of the actual rules you can see that Gets Hot! on plasma weapons finally got nerfed. Now you actually have to go beyond the safety margins of the gun to trigger it:

Spoiler:

Never made sense to me that one of the most common special weapons in the Imperium was so unreliable and deadly to the own user, in that case it would never have made it past protoype stage into a common-issue weapon (both because it kills the troopers using it as well as the expensive weapon itself). It also made melta weapons that much better in comparison, much less points, deadlier against vehicles and actually reliable. The chances you got to use your plasma gun at full range for one shot were unlikely and usually happened because you made a mistake or things went wrong (your plasma delivery unit's transport getting popped).

The 'Get's Hot' on an all new plasma weapon works differently. There is no indication on how it works on existing plasma weapons.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Technically, that reply doesn't answer the question...

Interpetation I guess. From what I,ve seen they look like they're snap fit but others can see otherwise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, in one of the latest scan leaks of the actual rules you can see that Gets Hot! on plasma weapons finally got nerfed. Now you actually have to go beyond the safety margins of the gun to trigger it:

Spoiler:

Never made sense to me that one of the most common special weapons in the Imperium was so unreliable and deadly to the own user, in that case it would never have made it past protoype stage into a common-issue weapon (both because it kills the troopers using it as well as the expensive weapon itself). It also made melta weapons that much better in comparison, much less points, deadlier against vehicles and actually reliable. The chances you got to use your plasma gun at full range for one shot were unlikely and usually happened because you made a mistake or things went wrong (your plasma delivery unit's transport getting popped).

We HOPE it was nerfed. That might just be limited to the new Primaris Plasma guns.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Technically, that reply doesn't answer the question...

Interpetation I guess. From what I,ve seen they look like they're snap fit but others can see otherwise.

From your Facebook Roundup #15 ...

Q: I hear they are snapfit? is that true? Hopefully stuff in the future wont be?
A: Sorry for the confusion on this one! These models are single-pose miniatures. They still need gluing together. As they are designed in a certain way, the sculptors Aly and Maxime have really gone to town on these and they look just superb.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

MattW wrote:
Have we seen sprue pics of the primaris marines yet?

They're snap fit. And if rumors hold true, shoulder pads are already mounted onto the model, not a seperate peice so no easy chapter swapping.

Damn. That is a little frustrating.

I'm thinking of doing up a little scythes of the emperor force, so might try my hand at printing decals if that's what they've done with the shoulder pads. Would like to see if torsos are separate from legs, too, as that'd make painting the scythes much easier.

Edit: I'd also like to know if hands are separate/at least the same size as regular marines... thinking I might use some of the forgeworld death guard scythes if I do a scythes of the emperor army.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, in one of the latest scan leaks of the actual rules you can see that Gets Hot! on plasma weapons finally got nerfed. Now you actually have to go beyond the safety margins of the gun to trigger it:

Spoiler:

Never made sense to me that one of the most common special weapons in the Imperium was so unreliable and deadly to the own user, in that case it would never have made it past protoype stage into a common-issue weapon (both because it kills the troopers using it as well as the expensive weapon itself). It also made melta weapons that much better in comparison, much less points, deadlier against vehicles and actually reliable. The chances you got to use your plasma gun at full range for one shot were unlikely and usually happened because you made a mistake or things went wrong (your plasma delivery unit's transport getting popped).

The 'Get's Hot' on an all new plasma weapon works differently. There is no indication on how it works on existing plasma weapons.

Just like all melta weapons (including the knight-scale ones) had the same re-roll damage rule, I would be shocked if the plasma incinerator's rule isn't the new "Gets Hot". I think the actual upgrade the plasma incinerator has on display is a +6" and -1 extra AP to put it in line with the bolt rifle.

It might not be a smoking gun, but I think at this point we can lay good odds on that being the new thing Imperial plasma does. With so much of 2nd Edition coming back, giving plasma back low and high power settings would make sense (and the Chaos version of that works easier in play without having to muck about with recharge tokens).

My prediction is that the new plasma lineup is:

Plasma Pistol // Range 12" // Pistol 1 // Strength 7 // AP -3 // Damage 1 // overheat on 1's as per plasma incinerator
Plasma Gun // Range 24" // Rapid Fire 1 // Strength 7 // AP -3 // Damage 1 // overheat on 1's as per plasma incinerator
Plasma Cannon // Range 36" // Heavy d3 (d6?) // Strength 7 // AP -3 // Damage 1 // overheat on 1's as per plasma incinerator

 Ghaz wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Technically, that reply doesn't answer the question...

Interpetation I guess. From what I,ve seen they look like they're snap fit but others can see otherwise.

From your Facebook Roundup #15 ...

Q: I hear they are snapfit? is that true? Hopefully stuff in the future wont be?
A: Sorry for the confusion on this one! These models are single-pose miniatures. They still need gluing together. As they are designed in a certain way, the sculptors Aly and Maxime have really gone to town on these and they look just superb.

Fair enough.

SO stoked that you can advance and still fire Assault weapons. That's a cool change to make assault weapons really effective.

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

Never made sense to me that one of the most common special weapons in the Imperium was so unreliable and deadly to the own user, in that case it would never have made it past protoype stage into a common-issue weapon (both because it kills the troopers using it as well as the expensive weapon itself). It also made melta weapons that much better in comparison, much less points, deadlier against vehicles and actually reliable. The chances you got to use your plasma gun at full range for one shot were unlikely and usually happened because you made a mistake or things went wrong (your plasma delivery unit's transport getting popped).

I had a conversation about that very thing with one of my Tau playing friends who thought it was silly the Imperium hadn't figured out how to make plasma stable. He thought that it was because humans stagnated right after they developed plasma weapons, but I suggested that it was intentional. Given the lack of concern for human life at the Guard level, and the protective armor that the Space Marine wear, they probably overtune their guns by standard to make them hit harder while remaining unbothered by the consequences.

I mean, it could be for any number of reasons, but mine struck me as just grimdark enough I could see it coming from the Imperium.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
SO stoked that you can advance and still fire Assault weapons. That's a cool change to make assault weapons really effective.

It also helps a lot of fast armies to be fast without sacrificing much firepower. Things like Eldar and Nids have a ton of assault weapons, and now they can keep up fire on the move. I love it!

May be a bit of an edge case for Orks though, hitting on 6's is probably only worth it if you'd have been out of range otherwise.

 Lockark wrote:

 Galas wrote:


If ork clans/tau step rules reflective of legion and chapter rules come back into the game, opens up more for updates for these factions.

I would be super happy if the Ork clans made a comeback, they were one of my favourite parts of old 40k.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Just like all melta weapons (including the knight-scale ones) had the same re-roll damage rule, I would be shocked if the plasma incinerator's rule isn't the new "Gets Hot".

Except none of the melta weapons are 'first brand new melta weapons in 10,000 years', so your comparison really doesn't work.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

MattW wrote:
Have we seen sprue pics of the primaris marines yet?

They're snap fit. And if rumors hold true, shoulder pads are already mounted onto the model, not a seperate peice so no easy chapter swapping.

Doesn't that directly contradict what the Warhammer 40K facebook team said? I think I recall reading a quote of them saying the Primaris marines will be compatible with other shoulder pads in particular Chapter specific molded pads.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
Okay, back home, piece of stinky sponge removed from daughters nose.

Thanks for the kind wishes from people

About to update OP with the last Facebook Round-up, did I miss anything else that should be added in the last 15 pages?

A massive slew of leaks.

Of course that happens when I am not able to update

Okay looks like I have an hour or so mapped out for me this afternoon.

 daedalus wrote:

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

Never made sense to me that one of the most common special weapons in the Imperium was so unreliable and deadly to the own user, in that case it would never have made it past protoype stage into a common-issue weapon (both because it kills the troopers using it as well as the expensive weapon itself). It also made melta weapons that much better in comparison, much less points, deadlier against vehicles and actually reliable. The chances you got to use your plasma gun at full range for one shot were unlikely and usually happened because you made a mistake or things went wrong (your plasma delivery unit's transport getting popped).

I had a conversation about that very thing with one of my Tau playing friends who thought it was silly the Imperium hadn't figured out how to make plasma stable. He thought that it was because humans stagnated right after they developed plasma weapons, but I suggested that it was intentional. Given the lack of concern for human life at the Guard level, and the protective armor that the Space Marine wear, they probably overtune their guns by standard to make them hit harder while remaining unbothered by the consequences.

I mean, it could be for any number of reasons, but mine struck me as just grimdark enough I could see it coming from the Imperium.

Back in the days of 2nd edition, the 2nd ed. Chaos Codex gave background about Heresy plasma weapons being the ones that overheated due to their higher power and fire rate. Post-Heresy the Adeptus Mechanicus had downgraded the power and slowed the fire rate in order to remove the risk. So in 2nd edition, Imperial plasma guns did not overheat but had to recharge for a turn after firing and had lower Strength than the old Heresy plasma guns, which the Chaos Legions had kept on using.

Now that bit got retconned after 2nd edition. Instead Imperial plasma weaponry had higher Strength than the plasma weapons of other races but had the risk of overheating, whereas the Tau and Eldar seemed to settle for safety and lower Strength.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

MattW wrote:
Have we seen sprue pics of the primaris marines yet?

They're snap fit. And if rumors hold true, shoulder pads are already mounted onto the model, not a seperate peice so no easy chapter swapping.

Doesn't that directly contradict what the Warhammer 40K facebook team said? I think I recall reading a quote of them saying the Primaris marines will be compatible with other shoulder pads in particular Chapter specific molded pads.

Start set =\= later versions of the Primaris.

 Kirasu wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Poor Tyranids... feeded to Khorne:

Spoiler:

What a coincidence how great losses all chapters receive now that you can have Super better Primaris Marines, eh?

This is quite possibly the worst fluff gw has ever written.

It was also some of the worst written prose from GW. Tell me I wasn't the only one struggling to get through it?

Also, I'm hoping someone out there leaks the full DG datasheets soon.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

MattW wrote:
Have we seen sprue pics of the primaris marines yet?

They're snap fit. And if rumors hold true, shoulder pads are already mounted onto the model, not a seperate peice so no easy chapter swapping.

Doesn't that directly contradict what the Warhammer 40K facebook team said? I think I recall reading a quote of them saying the Primaris marines will be compatible with other shoulder pads in particular Chapter specific molded pads.

Not really. The kit will be compatible, the starter won,t be.

Love the way they've broken down weapon restrictions on shooting. Those Hellblasters look devastating!

Regarding the gets hot...what makes everything thing the imperium couldn't make them stable?

Techno Priest: "here you go, we had to tone them down a bit, but they are safer"
Imperial Officer: "wait, I can get more damage out of them?"
Techno Priest: "Of course, but it might kill the solider"
Imperial Officer: "only the heritics will die, I want a million of them..."

The plasma of the imperium did not represent any lack of technology - it represented a lack of concern for the safety of the members of the imperium.

Anyone else notice, in the leaked Core Rules, the fact that all models shoot all weapons at the same target or different targets?

Everyone now not only can Split Fire model-by-model, but can split their weapon's fire (A squad of 3 Crisis Suit with a Flamer, a Fusion Blaster, and a Plasma Rifle could fire upon up to 9 separate targets, assuming they're in range).

Also, they defined Enemy Models: anything that is not in your army. Any unit that is in your army is a friendly model. I'm still waiting to see something about Allies...

Edit: Notable would be the detachments discussed in the General Discussion forum. Each formation seems to only have to meet its own restrictions, and the biggest restrictions on sharing things across faction will probably be in the nitty-gritty of the keywords (and the Commander/Hero abilities tied to them).

At least we know exactly how GW feels about sneaking in a Culexus Assassin for my Tau, eh?

Overwatch is before the charge, so without special rules, starting an assault from further than the range of the Flamer model, and you're effectively immune. That's an extra boost to Orks, who have a more reliable (sorta) charge range with 'ere We Go!

Assault weapon's penalties for shooting after Advancing seems like it'll hurt lower BS armies (Orks, Tau, AM, etc.) more than elites.

Pistols become either/or with other types of weaponry in terms of whether you can shoot the weapon at all, which is just... fascinating. You can dual-pistol and shoot twice or dual-weapon and shoot twice, but you can't do pistol/weapon. I might be misreading something, but that's... an oddity.

Also, the way I'm reading emergency Disembarking. Sure, you lose 1 model in 6, but you can act normally after that... like, say, during the charge phase after your transport died to Overwatch fire, so long as you have the space to place them before the transport model is removed...

The Core terrain rules seem very... bare. Pretty much one-size-fits-all. It also doesn't actually restrict what type of unit can take cover. Are the rules for terrains like forests, ruins, and the like in paid-rules only?

Lots to absorb... I'm really looking forward to seeing how they adapted some of the old favorites into this new edition.

davethepak wrote:
Regarding the gets hot...what makes everything thing the imperium couldn't make them stable?

Techno Priest: "here you go, we had to tone them down a bit, but they are safer"
Imperial Officer: "wait, I can get more damage out of them?"
Techno Priest: "Of course, but it might kill the solider"
Imperial Officer: "only the heritics will die, I want a million of them..."

The plasma of the imperium did not represent any lack of technology - it represented a lack of concern for the safety of the members of the imperium.

Humanity has literally quadrillions of bodies to throw into the enemy's way. Maybe even kill them too.

Human capital is but one resouce of the Imperium and not even one rated very highly in terms of value. Hell the plasma gun that overheats and melts the trooper carrying it is seen as not only more valuable than him, but the destruction of it is likely to have the trooper seen posthumously by the brass as a heretic who is lucky he died.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shooting rules were likely written the way they are so MCs and Vehicles could work as intended. Likewise pistol rules were written they way they were to prevent Marines from having an extra set of shots from their pistols on top of their bolters.

Not too many models have pistols and two other weapons. At least none that I can think of.

 Crimson wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:
Intercessors at 24. Hellblasters are 23.

Kind of odd - I can't see a reason for it. Perhaps making the unit more palatable?

I'm sure it's because you have to buy the gun for 17 points.

Yes, but would it not make more sense to have the Hellblasters at 24 and the gun at 16?

Not if their battlefield roll has advantages. For example we don't know if troops maintain the benefit of obsec like last edition, if they do and the intercessors are troops where the hellblasters as elites then once is worth more gear aside.

I actually like the blood angels fluff. I think it needs more detail and character but I would enjoy reading that battle book.

I love how people underestimate the threat of the tyranids. Anything short of the intervention established in the fluff would have failed to stop them. It was either remove blood angels or have fluff mcguffin to keep them alive.

Also, this is totally something I could see Kbanda doing because he wants to wipe them out, not let some xenos take it from him;

 Leth wrote:
I actually like the blood angels fluff. I think it needs more detail and character but I would enjoy reading that battle book.

I love how people underestimate the threat of the tyranids. Anything short of the intervention established in the fluff would have failed to stop them. It was either remove blood angels or have fluff mcguffin to keep them alive.

Also, this is totally something I could see Kbanda doing because he wants to wipe them out, not let some xenos take it from him;

Yeah, I've been very critical of recent GW fluff, but this didn't strike me as particularly awful. It was just extremely abbreviated compared to the scale of the events occurring. That's a failure of the presentation rather than the events themselves.

A full book of this battle, breaking down the individuals and hour-by-hour decisions being made, would be pretty interesting.

 Formerly Wu wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I actually like the blood angels fluff. I think it needs more detail and character but I would enjoy reading that battle book.

I love how people underestimate the threat of the tyranids. Anything short of the intervention established in the fluff would have failed to stop them. It was either remove blood angels or have fluff mcguffin to keep them alive.

Also, this is totally something I could see Kbanda doing because he wants to wipe them out, not let some xenos take it from him;

Yeah, I've been very critical of recent GW fluff, but this didn't strike me as particularly awful. It was just extremely abbreviated compared to the scale of the events occurring. That's a failure of the presentation rather than the events themselves.

A full book of this battle, breaking down the individuals and hour-by-hour decisions being made, would be pretty interesting.

Agreed, could make for a cool campaign. Wasn't the big issue going into 8th that BA were cut off from the Indomitus Crusade by the rift though? How did Guilliman get there and casually alleviate one of the tensest points of the latest edition of grimdark warfare?

 ClockworkZion wrote:
... me cutting out the "MY FACTION NEXT PLEASE" comments.

A service for which some of us are tremendously appreciative!

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Anyone else notice, in the leaked Core Rules, the fact that all models shoot all weapons at the same target or different targets?

Everyone now not only can Split Fire model-by-model, but can split their weapon's fire (A squad of 3 Crisis Suit with a Flamer, a Fusion Blaster, and a Plasma Rifle could fire upon up to 9 separate targets, assuming they're in range).

Also, they defined Enemy Models: anything that is not in your army. Any unit that is in your army is a friendly model. I'm still waiting to see something about Allies...

Edit: Notable would be the detachments discussed in the General Discussion forum. Each formation seems to only have to meet its own restrictions, and the biggest restrictions on sharing things across faction will probably be in the nitty-gritty of the keywords (and the Commander/Hero abilities tied to them).

At least we know exactly how GW feels about sneaking in a Culexus Assassin for my Tau, eh?

Overwatch is before the charge, so without special rules, starting an assault from further than the range of the Flamer model, and you're effectively immune. That's an extra boost to Orks, who have a more reliable (sorta) charge range with 'ere We Go!

Assault weapon's penalties for shooting after Advancing seems like it'll hurt lower BS armies (Orks, Tau, AM, etc.) more than elites.

Pistols become either/or with other types of weaponry in terms of whether you can shoot the weapon at all, which is just... fascinating. You can dual-pistol and shoot twice or dual-weapon and shoot twice, but you can't do pistol/weapon. I might be misreading something, but that's... an oddity.

Also, the way I'm reading emergency Disembarking. Sure, you lose 1 model in 6, but you can act normally after that... like, say, during the charge phase after your transport died to Overwatch fire, so long as you have the space to place them before the transport model is removed...

The Core terrain rules seem very... bare. Pretty much one-size-fits-all. It also doesn't actually restrict what type of unit can take cover. Are the rules for terrains like forests, ruins, and the like in paid-rules only?

Lots to absorb... I'm really looking forward to seeing how they adapted some of the old favorites into this new edition.

That flamer/overwatch charge rule is interesting. Could see moving a unit further away before charging just to avoid the overwatch.

 Aetare wrote:

 Formerly Wu wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I actually like the blood angels fluff. I think it needs more detail and character but I would enjoy reading that battle book.

I love how people underestimate the threat of the tyranids. Anything short of the intervention established in the fluff would have failed to stop them. It was either remove blood angels or have fluff mcguffin to keep them alive.

Also, this is totally something I could see Kbanda doing because he wants to wipe them out, not let some xenos take it from him;

Yeah, I've been very critical of recent GW fluff, but this didn't strike me as particularly awful. It was just extremely abbreviated compared to the scale of the events occurring. That's a failure of the presentation rather than the events themselves.

A full book of this battle, breaking down the individuals and hour-by-hour decisions being made, would be pretty interesting.

Agreed, could make for a cool campaign. Wasn't the big issue going into 8th that BA were cut off from the Indomitus Crusade by the rift though? How did Guilliman get there and casually alleviate one of the tensest points of the latest edition of grimdark warfare?

Plus its Ka'Banda (sp?) and there is some serious history involved between it and the Blood Angels

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
How do you think the various Chapters would react to the idea of tampering with Geneseed trying to "improve" on the Emperor's design and make better Space Marines?

I think my Chapter the Raven Guard would be highly sceptical if not outright hostile to the idea of Primaris Space Marines, due to the disastrous failure of their own Primarch Corvus Corax to create his own improved Space Marines as a shortcut to rebuilding his Legion in the Horus Heresy.

I doubt it, since we - and they - now know that the 'disastrous failure' was all due to the nefarious interference of those meddling kids the Alpha Legion, they'll know it can probably work just fine, and will gladly accept the Primaris Marines with open arms.

Unless Corax is one of the soon to be returning Primarchs, maybe!