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2018/03/30 23:10:51
Subject: Re:Archons WW@?! Dark Eldar 8th Edition Tactics!
ThePie wrote: Hmm alright, i have been thinking about how to efficiently deal with both horde armies and space marine armies.
Marines can be dealt with disintregator cannons, but it's massed hordes like green tide im really worrying about.
Poison probably suffices vs T4 Orks, but so far Wych Cult units look like the only real answer to T3, and of those only Wyches are actually specialized for the role. Obviously they could come out with 7 point Razorwing Flocks again and then there's your go-to, but otherwise there's just not much in the index that would be well-positioned for the job even with generous price cuts.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/30 23:16:00
2018/03/30 23:14:10
Subject: Archons WW@?! Dark Eldar 8th Edition Tactics!
Looks like running venoms and 5 man warrior squads is pretty good, since it combines a blaster with lots of anti infantry which is sorely needed.
And for how cheap they look, atleast 2 ravagers with disintregator cannons will make a real number out of marine targets, or perhaps its still better with some extra long range anti tank.
OR perhaps run 2 raiders with 1 disintregator cannons and 2 blaster squads inside might be better, since the blaster squads don't get a degrading to hit when the transport gets damaged
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/03/31 01:16:33
2018/03/31 03:06:00
Subject: Archons WW@?! Dark Eldar 8th Edition Tactics!
Archons with 8 attacks sounds like a really heavy investment, but might just be alright (not great, but alright) with a delivery system. Has the state of transport capacities been revealed in that preview? I can't be bothered to watch the whole thing.
2018/03/31 03:45:02
Subject: Archons WW@?! Dark Eldar 8th Edition Tactics!
Theres a video up from BoLS with most of the changes. Don't have link atm, sorry.
Some standouts for me:
Heat Lance 12 pts
Haywire Blaster d3 shots 8 pts
Disintegrator down to 15 pts
Splinter canons 10pts
Warriors, Wyches, and Wracks down by 1 pt
Reavers down to 19(!) pts
Succubus can potentially get 3 drugs
There is a relic archite glaive without the -1 hit
Relic helm that lets you deny, and if you deny causes perils to the psyker automatically.
Dazhar fights twice on charge
Archons got more expensive, huskblade got better (+1 strength) and gets reroll 1 aura.
Lelith and Urien both around 80 points each. Succubus around 50.
Urien takes half damage and gives +1 str, tough, and ld to coven units. Lost his reroll save, but kept his clonefield.
No more drugs for Lelith! Instead she can choose a stat increase to use for the phase.
Blackheart Relic gives archon reroll 1s to wound aura
1 special/5 warriors and 1 heavy/10
Shardnets now make your opponents roll a d3 vs your d6 on the No Escape rule. Love it.
Razorflails same but give d3 attacks.
Mandrakes ~2 or 3 pts cheaper
Razorwing flocks changes. 4+ws, but only 4 attacks. Some other changes to beasts - video audio cuts out for this portion.
Grotesques +1 pt, +1ap on basic melee weapon
Hellions 14ppm
Talos 75pts, 5 attakcs and gains new weapon (x2 str, -3ap d3d -1 hit)
Talos Macro Scalpels now +1str -2ap 2d but only +1 attack now.
Cronos 65pts base
Flyers a bit cheaper, but largely unchanged.
I tried to cover things that have not already been leaked or discussed already. HQs got cheaper, but no movement stuff.
Stratagems (they skimmed through these rather quick):
Shared with Eldar: Lightning Reflexes, Fire and Fade, Webway Portal, fall back and shoot, and more
33 total strategems
Reavers and Hellions can fly over enemies, Roll a d6 for each model in your squad, on a 6 (+1 for infantry) causes a mortal wound
Aethersails 1cp 8" advance for raiders and ravagers
Poison Tongue: "pick up 3 units and redeploy them" presumably means immediately after deployment.
Cursed Blade: Catachan boobytraps
Consolidate into a transport
Relics
Genereic
Djinn Blade: Huskblade +2 attacks, on a roll of a 1 after using take a mortal wound.
Helm of Spite: Deny the witch. If successful, denied psyker suffers perils automatically.
Nightmare Doll: 4+++ for Hamonculus
Animus Vitae: Terrible
Whip: Agonizer replacement with 3 additional attacks
Specific Relics
Black Heart: Archon Only reroll wound rolls of 1 aura
Obsidian Rose: 3+ -to be hit in melee
Flayed Skull: Gain 4++ after failing shadow field
Cult of Strife: Random drug every turn.
Cursed Blade: Exploding Succubus
Red Grief: Archite glaive "a little stronger" no hit penalty
Prophets of Flesh: Enemies cannot fire overwatch at bearer, select enemy unit with 6" target unit must fight last (some conditions apply, counteracts opposing rules, etc)
Dark Creed: Stinger Pistol Ap -4 ignores invulnerable saves
Coven of Twelve: Hamy Tolls replacement ap-2 d3d add 1 to wound rolls, damage against characters damage is 3.
Warlord Traits (9 generic + 1 for each obsession)
Kabal
CA trait changed: reroll ALL wound rolls. (Drazhar has this)
+1 attack on charge etc. Killing a model heals 1 wound
3" aura enemies roll 2d6 on moral and pick highest
Cult
Always fights first
Another drug!
wound roll of 6+ causes an additional mortal wound
Coven
heals d3 wounds at start of your turn
+1 to wound rolls
reroll fnp of 1 aura 6"
Black Heart: We know it. We love it. CPs Poison Tongue: Use this models ld within 12"
Flayed Skull: +1a and str on charge
Obsidian Rose: Increase non artifact damage by 1 (d6+1) blaster
Cult of Strife: Exploding 6s on hits, 3 hits (Lelith has this)
Red Grief: +1 invuln
Cursed Blade: Unmodified save of 6 bounces a MW back
Prophets of Flesh: The d3 extra CP one (Urien has this)
Dark Creed: Roll 2d6 for each enemy within 3" if exceeds enemy ld causes 1 MW Coven of Twelve: Reduce all damage by 1
I think thats most of what I heard. I probably missed stuff. The review was pretty vague, to be honest.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/31 09:01:17
2018/03/31 09:02:06
Subject: Archons WW@?! Dark Eldar 8th Edition Tactics!
It seems our HQs still have no mobility options. Not. A. Single. One.
See you in 9th, guys.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/31 09:37:41
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2018/03/31 09:45:03
Subject: Archons WW@?! Dark Eldar 8th Edition Tactics!
Without taking Obsessions into question (tho much wont change for me, for others that might), This IMO from the little math that i did (only like 15 min, i still need to do more math, but i am happy for now)) is the best load out and one i will test play 1st (I think).
6 Raiders with Discannons (80pts each 480pts) with 25 warriors 5 blasters (282pts) is 762pts.
This is [[EDIT [15]] S5 2D with AP shots, that is much more fun to me than 120 Poison shots, and the 5 Blasters are there for a buff to damage. This will also give me room for characters.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/31 09:57:35
Amishprn86 wrote: Without taking Obsessions into question (tho much wont change for me, for others that might), This IMO from the little math that i did (only like 15 min, i still need to do more math, but i am happy for now)) is the best load out and one i will test play 1st (I think).
6 Raiders with Discannons (80pts each 480pts) with 25 warriors 5 blasters (282pts) is 762pts.
This is 54 S5 2D with AP shots, that is much more fun to me than 120 Poison shots, and the 5 Blasters are there for a buff to damage. This will also give me room for characters.
Aren't you thinking of Ravagers? You can only fit one Disintegrator Cannon on a Raider.
2018/03/31 09:57:02
Subject: Archons WW@?! Dark Eldar 8th Edition Tactics!
Amishprn86 wrote: Without taking Obsessions into question (tho much wont change for me, for others that might), This IMO from the little math that i did (only like 15 min, i still need to do more math, but i am happy for now)) is the best load out and one i will test play 1st (I think).
6 Raiders with Discannons (80pts each 480pts) with 25 warriors 5 blasters (282pts) is 762pts.
This is 54 S5 2D with AP shots, that is much more fun to me than 120 Poison shots, and the 5 Blasters are there for a buff to damage. This will also give me room for characters.
Aren't you thinking of Ravagers? You can only fit one Disintegrator Cannon on a Raider.
Oops, i miss math!, lol its 15, and yes im taking Ravagers, that where i miss math, i added them in my mistake, I have 1250 list with Ravagers
But my Point was, for me its reliability vs more shots.
Edit: its 75pts vs 80pts, 6/12 shots vs 3 shots but those 6/12 shots always wound on 4, 0 ap and doesnt work on vehicles, the 3 shots will wound most on 3+, can hurt vehicles 50% better and is 2 damage (the important part for me). The warriors stays the same, but against a Marine, or a IG, the Discannon is about equal.
6/12 poison shots vs MEQ: 0.67/1.33 wound 6/12 poison shots vs TEQ 1.33/2.37
So poison is clearily going to win vs TEQ, but not vs MEQ,a nd multi MEQ wounds its just leaps and bounds better, even if you onlyget 1-2 wounds through, compare to 4-5
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/31 10:03:12
ThePie wrote: Think best option is to run your HQs in a raider together with 5 warriors. Doesent seem like they got any additional mobility options.
I would put this as the 10th best option, with options 1 through 9 being 'don't buy the codex'.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2018/03/31 10:23:17
Subject: Archons WW@?! Dark Eldar 8th Edition Tactics!
ThePie wrote: Think best option is to run your HQs in a raider together with 5 warriors. Doesent seem like they got any additional mobility options.
I would put this as the 10th best option, with options 1 through 9 being 'don't buy the codex'.
Oi, negative nancy, since your one and... perplexingly out of proportion gripe is that HQ's didn't get bikes... here's a transport with slots that arn't a mutiple of 5
On the other hand the codex has gotten stupid buffs revers, hellions massively betters , shardnet wytches are... meta breaking, so are agents of vect.... agents of vect alone could get a 5 page article on how good and unique it is... On wings of fire, gone, miasma gone, tide of traitors, gone, forewarned, gone the deepest shadow (if your allied with eldar wich, lets be honest i don't see a GT list at this point of Aeldari not running a detachment of Black Heart) gone... DE are back in black boys!
2018/03/31 10:41:35
Subject: Archons WW@?! Dark Eldar 8th Edition Tactics!
ThePie wrote: Think best option is to run your HQs in a raider together with 5 warriors. Doesent seem like they got any additional mobility options.
I would put this as the 10th best option, with options 1 through 9 being 'don't buy the codex'.
Oi, negative nancy, since your one and... perplexingly out of proportion gripe is that HQ's didn't get bikes... here's a transport with slots that arn't a mutiple of 5
On the other hand the codex has gotten stupid buffs revers, hellions massively betters , shardnet wytches are... meta breaking, so are agents of vect.... agents of vect alone could get a 5 page article on how good and unique it is... On wings of fire, gone, miasma gone, tide of traitors, gone, forewarned, gone the deepest shadow (if your allied with eldar wich, lets be honest i don't see a GT list at this point of Aeldari not running a detachment of Black Heart) gone... DE are back in black boys!
With Obsessions and Stratagems, the Tantalus is freaking strong......
DS it, shoot kill a unit, spend CP, shoot again, spend CP give it -1 to hit. You can give it 6+++ from Blask Heart, sense it is also Coven, can make it +1 toughness.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/31 10:41:42
ThePie wrote: Think best option is to run your HQs in a raider together with 5 warriors. Doesent seem like they got any additional mobility options.
I would put this as the 10th best option, with options 1 through 9 being 'don't buy the codex'.
Oi, negative nancy, since your one and... perplexingly out of proportion gripe is that HQ's didn't get bikes... here's a transport with slots that arn't a mutiple of 5
On the other hand the codex has gotten stupid buffs revers, hellions massively betters , shardnet wytches are... meta breaking, so are agents of vect.... agents of vect alone could get a 5 page article on how good and unique it is... On wings of fire, gone, miasma gone, tide of traitors, gone, forewarned, gone the deepest shadow (if your allied with eldar wich, lets be honest i don't see a GT list at this point of Aeldari not running a detachment of Black Heart) gone... DE are back in black boys!
Oh right, i didnt even think about the shardnet wyches!
Hmm, i wonder if 5 man in venoms or 10 man in raiders are better, they do need to survive overwatch.
2018/03/31 10:43:23
Subject: Archons WW@?! Dark Eldar 8th Edition Tactics!
Yeah... kind of not seeing the justified negativity here. I guess it would be nice if HQs could have movement 16 or something - but I am not convinced its necessary. Buy them a party bus if you want - or just have them run.
Anyway not sure if DE will be top-top tier - but they are certainly not weak. Its a world away from 7th edition.
My only cynicism might be that mass venoms/blasters+ravagers+jetfighters is still almost certainly going to be the optimal way forward. Maybe with a splash of some other things - but I might be wrong.
Also not... totally as hyped on the Agents of Vect as others are. 3 CP is very expensive unless you bring a lot.
But I guess if you build your list with a lot of CP, the Haemonculus+D3 CP warlord trait & gain a CP when either side uses one on a 6+ warlord trait it might be okay. If you could disrupt pre-game start stratagems it would completely change the meta. As it is interrupting a 1CP ability is going to be very expensive - and therefore very situational.
2018/03/31 10:47:51
Subject: Archons WW@?! Dark Eldar 8th Edition Tactics!
Oi, negative nancy, since your one and... perplexingly out of proportion gripe is that HQ's didn't get bikes
Yeah, right?
I mean, who cares if DEHQs are slower than those of Eldar, Harlequins, SMs, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Orks, Chaos, Chaos Daemons, Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Tau...
Whatever. I'm off to start a business selling magic beans to Dark Eldar players. Because apparently they'll buy any crap you offer them, even if you've proved its crap in the past and that you haven't changed it one iota.
Not only that but when anyone points out that your magic beans aren't actually magic, they'll be the first to lynch that person and offer you fistfuls of money to prove how much they believe that those beans really are magic.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2018/03/31 10:54:25
Subject: Archons WW@?! Dark Eldar 8th Edition Tactics!
Oi, negative nancy, since your one and... perplexingly out of proportion gripe is that HQ's didn't get bikes
Yeah, right?
I mean, who cares if DEHQs are slower than those of Eldar, Harlequins, SMs, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Orks, Chaos, Chaos Daemons, Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Tau...
Whatever. I'm off to start a business selling magic beans to Dark Eldar players. Because apparently they'll buy any crap you offer them, even if you've proved its crap in the past and that you haven't changed it one iota.
Not only that but when anyone points out that your magic beans aren't actually magic, they'll be the first to lynch that person and offer you fistfuls of money to prove how much they believe that those beans really are magic.
Just b.c we wont burn our army over 1 rule doesnt mean we are saps, just b.c our HQ's dont get bikes/wings doesnt mean its a crappy codex.
I mean, who cares if DEHQs are slower than those of Eldar, Harlequins, SMs, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Orks, Chaos, Chaos Daemons, Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Tau...
Whatever. I'm off to start a business selling magic beans to Dark Eldar players. Because apparently they'll buy any crap you offer them, even if you've proved its crap in the past and that you haven't changed it one iota.
Not only that but when anyone points out that your magic beans aren't actually magic, they'll be the first to lynch that person and offer you fistfuls of money to prove how much they believe that those beans really are magic.
Games Workshop are figuratively slapping you in the face with a meta-busting codex that features dramatic improvements to almost every unit the Drukhari can field, and you're taking this attitude with fellow players over mobility options for characters?
Seriously dude?
Before someone quotes me saying "meta-busting? Huh?" the Agents of Vect stratagem absolutely destroys Poxwalker farm armies (who rely on you not being able to shoot the Poxwalkers and being forced to kill the other hordes that feed into the Poxwalkers) and a few other top tournament builds. Shardnet Wyches can severely mess up gun-line armies. The sheer firepower the army can output is not to be underestimated either, and that's just scratching the surface.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/31 11:09:48
2018/03/31 11:11:31
Subject: Archons WW@?! Dark Eldar 8th Edition Tactics!
I am actually curious: has it been confirmed that the venom is still only Transport 5? Feels like an oversight on GW's part as it would have been so easy to boost that to 6 to mirror the Harlequin transport.
2018/03/31 11:12:56
Subject: Archons WW@?! Dark Eldar 8th Edition Tactics!
Eldarsif wrote: I am actually curious: has it been confirmed that the venom is still only Transport 5? Feels like an oversight on GW's part as it would have been so easy to boost that to 6 to mirror the Harlequin transport.
Whatever. I'm off to start a business selling magic beans to Dark Eldar players.
I hate beans so your business model is flawed.
Personally I am very intrigued by the codex and am looking forward to seeing how it will play and affect the current meta. To be fair I have been playing Drukhari without jetbiking HQ since 5th edition so I just don't really feel like it's the end of the world that I can't get some new mobile HQ. Personally I've always felt that the Archon should be riding her own pimped up Venom, but hey, to each their own.
Eldarsif wrote: I am actually curious: has it been confirmed that the venom is still only Transport 5? Feels like an oversight on GW's part as it would have been so easy to boost that to 6 to mirror the Harlequin transport.
Whatever. I'm off to start a business selling magic beans to Dark Eldar players.
I hate beans so your business model is flawed.
Personally I am very intrigued by the codex and am looking forward to seeing how it will play and affect the current meta. To be fair I have been playing Drukhari without jetbiking HQ since 5th edition so I just don't really feel like it's the end of the world that I can't get some new mobile HQ. Personally I've always felt that the Archon should be riding her own pimped up Venom, but hey, to each their own.
I like the idea of a 5man with Archon in Raiders as body guards, my DE army is based off Mad Max, so if you watch the new one you see a few guys in the Cars with the leaders, kinda like that.
Would i love a Wych/Archon on Bike or Skyboard? Heck yeah, but it is game breaking or something that i "need"... no
Automatically Appended Next Post: With the new points changes, here is a "silly" list
Outrider, x2 Haemonculus Haemonculus Venoms x2 SC: 75pts Venoms x2 SC Venoms x2 SC Venoms x2 SC Venoms x2 SC Venoms x2 SC Venoms x2 SC Venoms x1 SC: 65pts Venoms x1 SC Ravager x3 DL: 140pts Ravager x3 DL Ravager x3 DL Ravager x3 DL Dedicated transports Raider DC: 80pts Raider DC Raider DC Raider DC Raider DC Raider DC Raider DC Raider DC NOTE: Can do 4 Razorwings instead (tho 1 needs to be 2 Discannons) of the Ravagers for Charging Protection and more -1 to hit
1995pts 21 vehicles, 16 Splinter cannons, 8 Discannons, 12 DL's, DS your Ravagers as they are the main targets
Equally, you can do 2 Archons and have it all Black Hearts for 6+++
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/03/31 11:26:17
I like the idea of a 5man with Archon in Raiders as body guards, my DE army is based off Mad Max, so if you watch the new one you see a few guys in the Cars with the leaders, kinda like that.
Would i love a Wych/Archon on Bike or Skyboard? Heck yeah, but it is game breaking or something that i "need"... no
I always feel like the Vect on his Dais was the ultimate presentation of an Archon with mobility. Firepower, armor, speed, along with a cadre of nasty bodyguards. Feels like most Archons wouldn't use jetbikes except maybe for Vraesque Malidrach due to his background.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
With the new points changes, here is a "silly" list
Outrider, x2
Haemonculus
Haemonculus
Venoms x2 SC: 75pts
Venoms x2 SC Venoms x2 SC Venoms x2 SC Venoms x2 SC Venoms x2 SC Venoms x2 SC Venoms x1 SC: 65pts
Venoms x1 SC Ravager x3 DL: 140pts
Ravager x3 DL Ravager x3 DL Ravager x3 DL Dedicated transports
Raider DC: 80pts
Raider DC Raider DC Raider DC Raider DC Raider DC Raider DC Raider DC
Don't you need units to unlock the transports?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/31 11:26:40
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
