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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 godardc wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
If you want to castle what's the point of Tactical Marines? They get less heavy weapons for the points.

I need units to go and capture the objectives, and until this very momebt, I thought that with 3 heavy support choices I had filled all my choices, but... We are in 8th now ! I have 6 choices !
HoweverI want to keep at least a little fluff in my army, and tactical squad are the only ones who never disappointed me. They always do something good before dying.

Then if you want to move forward buy more Scouts.

Do you think I should erase the two Tactical squad ? And replace them with even more scouts ? Wouldn't that be too many scouts ?

 SputnikDX wrote:

 godardc wrote:

Do you play with three 10-men vv squads or with half squads ?

I run 5 TH/SS and two squads of 4 stock Vanguard and Lightning Claw sergeants. I haven't ran them yet with double chainswords because I feel like it's kinda goofy and doesn't fit the fluff (plus finding right AND left handed chainswords means I need to dip into two sprues for each model), but I know it'll be more effective. I rarely use those pistols.

How have they been doing ? I have never tried stock vv, I mean I used to play a big 10 man squad with some stuff, but it didn't end well, and I stopped playing them.

Have you tried to use your rhinos as a "wall" to protect you from being assaulted ? Could it work with 3 rhinos ?

 godardc wrote:

How have they been doing ? I have never tried stock vv, I mean I used to play a big 10 man squad with some stuff, but it didn't end well, and I stopped playing them.

They've been doing phenomenally. I run them differently depending on who I'm fighting, either infiltrating them with SftS to get alpha strikes or leaving them in my back line as a very mobile and very deadly screen. If you want to run them in deep strike, I recommend landing on turn 1 somewhere safe midfield where you can't be shot at, then moving your 12" up to their weakest point and charging in, killing infantry and tying up tanks to keep them from shooting your big guns.

The only issue I have with the stock VV is that they usually need to punch way under their weight, and often they don't make their points back in raw kills. Units like guardsmen, cultists, (weakened) boyz and daemons is where they shine. Tough 3 and/or gakky saves is what you're looking for. What they also do, however, is cause enough chaos in the enemy lines to draw aggro and allow my other units to get into better position, since their jump packs allow them to jump OVER infantry to tie up tanks. Usually I'll charge Shrike towards literally everything within 12" since he ignores overwatch, and move him to tie up as many units as possible. Then his buddies will charge

I used to run 10 man but I'd recommend two squads of 5 for a variety of reasons. First, you get near immunity to morale at only 5 units, failing only on a 5+ after 4 guys die in one turn, and ATSKNF usually keeps you doing alright. Second, because they're primary purpose is causing chaos and making sure half of their gunline can't shoot, you're better taking two squads and keeping them somewhat separated to tie up as much as possible.

TH/SS are about as bulky as you'd expect, which sadly isn't that much. Keep them safe until the opportunity arrives, then move them in and watch them obliterate anything they touch. I usually run them into enemy HQ formations or tank formations with Libby trying his hardest to pop null zone.

jcd386 wrote:
I am curious what you guys are running lately, if you are even actually playing Marines.

Would it be out of place here ask people to list generally what you've been running, what parts you've found work, and what armies you've had a hard time against?

Ideally pure SM, but I'd be interested also in what you've been using as allies as well.

Only Marines, doing the Lias Issodon bomb.

It's Lias + Liutenant in jetpack + 10 devastators with 4 gravs + 10 sternguard with SIB + 5 Cataphractii terminators with combi & Ligthing claw and a Fist on sergeant as "The Bomb".
In the back, a Primaris Captain, 2 Venerable Dreads with Las and Missiles, 2 Tactical squad with a Lascannon and a Heavy Bolter, 3 Scout squads and 2 Razorbacks.

While some like to drop a few bodies in deepstrike to do a fire and forget tactics, like AM Scions, I think that actually showing up with a force of some size has a better impact on the overall match. Sternguard should be better with Storm Bolters, but I like the SIB because with the stratagem and the Storm of Fire Warlord trait I can actually use them as anti tank guns in a pinch, and that actually saved my army a couple of times. Gravs once dropping with Lias have been very effective against all targets, really liking them. Can't see another way to use them outside of the Issodon-bomb. The Cataphracti Terminators are there because I like them but they do work. Sometimes I send them on the opposide side of the Issodon Bomb, as a "distraction". If they are ignored, they usually manage to do some damage. Otherwise, the +1" to move and charge given by Issodon really helps them. I've succesfully landed the bomb, cleared the path with the shooting phase and then charged with the termies a couple of times.

I played this list, with some minor variations, against AM, GK, Mechanicus and Chaos (usually CSM and DG). So not first tier armies honestly, but against those it works. Only time I really struggle is against Chaos Zombie armies. I don't think SM have enough firepower to actually remove them from the game effectively, but it makes for a superfun scenario even when I'm losing because I love the "concept of the fight". Against AM I never really had a problem, the -1 to hit afforded by Ravenguard Tactics is protection enough and their tanks melt pretty well with gravs and stratagem boosted SIB. Fun fact: when Lias needs to kill something he gets too excited and my rolls are awful. When he is casually shooting at random targets he is usually overkill. "worst performing piece of the army". XD

I should go against an Eldar Bikes list in a few but I have absolutely no clue how to efficiently take them down. Actually if someone has some experience against them I would love to hear it.

SputnikDX glad to hear your vets are rocking it out for ya!

Here's my current list. I'm taking it to a tournament on Saturday, so we'll see how I get on.

Battalion Detachment: +3 CPs

Primaris Captain with Power Fist (Warlord) 106
Plasma Pistol
The Fist of Vengeance Relic (replacing Power Fist)
Warlord Trait: The Imperium's Sword (or Fist!). Warlord rerolls failed charges, and gets +1A the turn he charges.

Primaris Librarian 101
Force Sword
Smite
Null Zone
Might of Heroes

5 Intercessors 91
Bolt Rifles
Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

5 Intercessors 95
Bolt Rifles
Power Sword
Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

5 Scouts 55
Astartes Shotguns

5 Hellblasters 165
Plasma Incinerators

5 Hellblasters 165
Plasma Incinerators

Repulsor 344
Las Talon
Twin Lascannon
Onslaught Gatling Cannon
Three Storm Bolters
Two Fragstorm Grenade Launchers
Two Krakstorm Grenade Launchers
Ironhail Heavy Stubber

Repulsor 348
Las Talon
Twin Lascannon
Onslaught Gatling Cannon
Icarus Rocket Pod
Two Storm Bolters
Two Fragstorm Grenade Launchers
Two Krakstorm Grenade Launchers
Ironhail Heavy Stubber

Vanguard Detachment: +1 CP

Primaris Lieutenant 74
Power Sword

5 Aggressors 185
Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets
Fragstorm Grenade Launchers

Primaris Ancient 69

Relic Deredeo Dreadnought 202
Anvillus Autocannon Battery
Twin Heavy Bolter

 Primark G wrote:
From deep strike.

Also a squadron of three jetbikes can easily catch them...

12 attacks -> 10 hit + 2 (reroll) = 12

12 hits -> 4 wounds + 3 (reroll) = 7 wounds

HT takes 3-4 wounds.

You can pop the strategem to wound on +1 then:

12 hits -> 6 wounds + 3 (reroll) = 9 wounds

HT takes 4-5 wounds.

And of course don't forget 36 hurricane bolter shots...

Just, as a note, bikers don't have guardian spears, so they cannot use the plus 1 to wound strategem

Yeah that has already been pointed out but thanks.

Mandragola wrote:
Here's my current list. I'm taking it to a tournament on Saturday, so we'll see how I get on.

Battalion Detachment: +3 CPs

Primaris Captain with Power Fist (Warlord) 106
Plasma Pistol
The Fist of Vengeance Relic (replacing Power Fist)
Warlord Trait: The Imperium's Sword (or Fist!). Warlord rerolls failed charges, and gets +1A the turn he charges.

Primaris Librarian 101
Force Sword
Smite
Null Zone
Might of Heroes

5 Intercessors 91
Bolt Rifles
Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

5 Intercessors 95
Bolt Rifles
Power Sword
Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

5 Scouts 55
Base Cost for Five Scouts
Astartes Shotguns

5 Hellblasters 165
Plasma Incinerators

5 Hellblasters 165
Plasma Incinerators

Repulsor 344
Las Talon
Twin Lascannon
Onslaught Gatling Cannon
Three Storm Bolters
Two Fragstorm Grenade Launchers
Two Krakstorm Grenade Launchers
Ironhail Heavy Stubber

Repulsor 348
Las Talon
Twin Lascannon
Onslaught Gatling Cannon
Icarus Rocket Pod
Two Storm Bolters
Two Fragstorm Grenade Launchers
Two Krakstorm Grenade Launchers
Ironhail Heavy Stubber

Vanguard Detachment: +1 CP

Primaris Lieutenant 74
Power Sword

5 Aggressors 185
Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets
Fragstorm Grenade Launchers

Primaris Ancient 69

Relic Deredeo Dreadnought 202
Anvillus Autocannon Battery
Twin Heavy Bolter

Why a primaris librarian ? He isn't better at casting and is more expensive. A repulsor can carry 10, you have two repulsor but 22 primaris in you first detachement: who is going to be left behind ?


I twerked my list a little, taking less useless Tactical boltgun marines, removing the fragile stormraven and putting more veterans.
Chronus is a cheap HQ to give me more CP, and a librarian is always welcome to help to deny the witch. I had points left so I took a thunderfire just for the stratagem, I might remove it in the future but I think it may be useful with all my CP.

2 bataillon detachments (9CP)

Ultramarines

1 chronus
1 lieutenant master crafted boltgun

5 tac plasma rifle combi plasma
5 tac plasma rifle combi plasma
5 tactical marines flamer combi flamer

6 scout bikers

1 predator autocannon lascannon hunter-killer
1 predator autocannon lascannon hunter-killer
1 thunderfire

3 rhinos two stormbolters


1 captain relic blade shield eternal
1 librarian

5 company veterans with stormbolter and chainsword
5 company veterans with stormbolter and chainsword

5 scouts
5 scouts
5 scouts

7 devastators (4 ML)

A Primaris has an extra wound so is more durable versus perils.

There are various options for who goes in the repulsors. Usually the characters and a 5 man squad in one, then either the aggressors or two 5 man squads in the other. If the other guy has loads of drops then all the hellblasters and aggressors can ride. Other times the hellblasters might start inside but immediately disembark on turn one, so I can load up aggressors or something and head forward.

So basically there’s no set format and I make it up as I go along.

jcd386 wrote:
I am curious what you guys are running lately, if you are even actually playing Marines.

Would it be out of place here ask people to list generally what you've been running, what parts you've found work, and what armies you've had a hard time against?

Ideally pure SM, but I'd be interested also in what you've been using as allies as well.

Seeing as the Necron codex doesn't actually suck I'll be getting my old Necrons from storage in Vermont (or at least the lot that's left). In the meantime this is what I've been using for Space Marines with moderate success:

Astral Claws Brigade (treating Astral Claws as Raven Guard)
x1 Lufgt Huron
x1 Lt.
. Power Fist, The Primarch's Wrath
x1 Damocles Command Rhino
. Hunter-Killer Missile

x5 Scouts
. Shotguns, Combi-Plasma
x5 Scouts
. Shotguns, Combi-Plasma
x5 Scouts
. Shotguns, Combi-Plasma
x5 Intercessors
. Aux Grenade Launcher
x5 Intercessors
. Aux Grenade Launcher
x5 Intercessors
. Aux Grenade Launcher

x4 Agressors
. Boltstorm Gauntlets and Fragstorm Launcher
x4 Aggressors
. Boltstorm Gauntlets and Fragstorm Launcher
x1 Whirlwind Scorpius
. Hunter-Killer Missile

x1 Tarantula Sentry Gun
. Twin Heavy Bolter
x1 Tarantula Sentry Gun
. Twin Heavy Bolter
x1 Tarantula Sentry Gun
. Twin Heavy Bolter
x1 Tarantula Sentry Gun
. Twin Heavy Bolter
x1 Tarantula Sentry Gun
. Twin Heavy Bolter

x1 Rapier Carrier
. Quad Launcher
x1 Rapier Carrier
. Quad Launcher
x1 Rapier Carrier
. Quad Launcher
x1 Thunderfire Cannon

12 CP total, 21 units, 50+ models

The basic plan is to hide the important stuff and just start plinking away. Apparently Space Marine artillery isn't allowed to be as good as Guard artillery but oh well. I gotta get those shots out.

Heavy Bolters and Scouts are set up as road blocks, with Intercessors in areas to prevent Deep Striking, and the Aggressors will use the Strike From The Shadows Strategem to hopefully get close and start firing at their meatshields as well or be more expensive road blocks. I make sure that Huron is able to hit something with his Big Guns ability, THEN I use Orbital Bombardment (which is kinda a terrible Strategem), THEN get the Damocles to use its own Orbital Strike + HK, then the Damocles rushes forward and does whatever as I don't care about it after that point. Then I basically point and click the artillery as necessary. The Thunderfire is more expensive and less powerful than the Quad Launchers, and is solely used for the Tremor Shells, which is nice against things like Custodes Bikers and Berserker Marines and whatever Daemons are probably cooking up (I hadn't faced Daemons as an army in a while).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Worth noting I'll probably toss the Scorpius as I don't find it earning points back very well.

Hey Mandragola, good to hear your feedback - I play pretty similar lists with my Primaris-centred force. I have a couple of questions for you...
1) No deepstrike? how does that flop out in terms of being able to react to your opponent, and grabbing objectives?
2) I have one repulsor and haven't brought myself to buy another, as it gets kabloomed in the first turn nearly every game I've played it. I like it, it's essentially a LR that can fall back and shoot, which is a huge deal in my book. But it is a piñata. Would you ever run just one?
3) What's the Deredeo doing in your list? How does it perform? I tend to run Mortis quad las.

1. Yeah some deep strike would be good honestly. I mess about with the list a lot and do sometimes include inceptors or reivers. This current version is about being defensively tough though.

2. People are often able to kill one of my vehicles in turn 1, which is why I have 3. I focus on killing their AT if possible.

3. The deredeo is an experiment I’m trying out for this event. I’ve also been using a las mortis contemptor, but have found that it (rather than the repulsors) gets killed a lot on turn one. The deredeo is a fair bit tougher and more accurate vs flyers. It also does a bit better vs flyrants and daemons, and is generally a bit more versatile than the contemptor.

Overall it’s not a perfect list. I’d consider dropping the ancient and a couple of aggressors in exchange for 5 grav chute reivers. Then I could put the 3 remaining characters and aggressors in one repulsor and have that deep strike unit. And I could stick a 5++ bubble on the deredeo with the spare points.

I might try that in future. Too late now - the lists have been sent in and my reivers aren’t painted!

I learned a thing almost on accident in my last game.

Chapter Master Aura + Lieutenant Aura + Lascannon Predators with Kill Shot = Discount Guilliman Aura Preds vs Vehicles.

Reroll all hits (if you don't move), Wound on 2, Reroll 1s. D6+1 damage for each lascannon. Managed to slag a Land Raider and Redemptor in a single turn (29 wounds!)

 SputnikDX wrote:
I learned a thing almost on accident in my last game.

Chapter Master Aura + Lieutenant Aura + Lascannon Predators with Kill Shot = Discount Guilliman Aura Preds vs Vehicles.

Reroll all hits (if you don't move), Wound on 2, Reroll 1s. D6+1 damage for each lascannon. Managed to slag a Land Raider and Redemptor in a single turn (29 wounds!)

How do you draw fire away from you predator ? You said without moving, so they had a LOS and opponent had a LOS on them too !
I thought of having 3 pred and a stormraven, 2 big armored units to make 1 survive

 godardc wrote:

 SputnikDX wrote:
I learned a thing almost on accident in my last game.

Chapter Master Aura + Lieutenant Aura + Lascannon Predators with Kill Shot = Discount Guilliman Aura Preds vs Vehicles.

Reroll all hits (if you don't move), Wound on 2, Reroll 1s. D6+1 damage for each lascannon. Managed to slag a Land Raider and Redemptor in a single turn (29 wounds!)

How do you draw fire away from you predator ? You said without moving, so they had a LOS and opponent had a LOS on them too !
I thought of having 3 pred and a stormraven, 2 big armored units to make 1 survive

To be honest, yes that's the best approach. Either go big on armoured units or don't use them at all.

I'm interested that Sputnik is using predators though. Usually with ravenguard the approach is to take an all-infantry (or dreadnought) army, so everything is at -1 to hit. But I suppose the argument for taking tanks is that if the big guns are fired at tanks it leaves just small arms to kill the infantry, and that's incredibly difficult. Of course, ravenguard tanks are no worse than anyone else's, and you could argue they are the best at screening, so there's nothing wrong with it.

Chapter masters are interesting, if available. It's nice to get a guy who brings his own relics, as well as the rerolls. I've often thought about bringing Pedro, but he's expensive, can't ride in my repulsors and has an awful warlord trait. There's nothing stopping me making a different guy my warlord of course, but it doesn't feel quite right. I'm sure I'll give him a try one day.

Some of the chapter masters are fantastic though. To be honest Dante is probably top of the heap, especially since there are some really nice DA relic weapons you can give out to other characters. A DA lieutenant can have an excellent sword, making him far more dangerous than my primaris guy with just a normal power sword. Meanwhile Dante himself has so many relics he's run out of hands, and has to employ a servant to carry one of them.

 godardc wrote:

 SputnikDX wrote:
I learned a thing almost on accident in my last game.

Chapter Master Aura + Lieutenant Aura + Lascannon Predators with Kill Shot = Discount Guilliman Aura Preds vs Vehicles.

Reroll all hits (if you don't move), Wound on 2, Reroll 1s. D6+1 damage for each lascannon. Managed to slag a Land Raider and Redemptor in a single turn (29 wounds!)

How do you draw fire away from you predator ? You said without moving, so they had a LOS and opponent had a LOS on them too !
I thought of having 3 pred and a stormraven, 2 big armored units to make 1 survive

Well, I don't. But I still get "Guilliman," since even Guilliman doesn't let you reroll after modifiers. The person I was playing against wasn't that great, so while I was out of range of his lascannons his land raider was right in my lane.

I keep getting drawn back to my Marines, but i can't decide between 2 options right now... Would be running Carcharodons with Tyberos as Raven Guard. It's semi fluffy but i want it to stand up to most lists...

Essentially, one list has 2 quad las relic contemptors and then 1 double fist relic contemptor in a stormraven. Also has 5 VV, 3 with double claws and 2 with double chainswords. Libby with jump pack might start in here as well, but prob not. Stormraven is kitted out with all the bolters and assault cannons.

2nd list has 2 quad las relic contemptors and then a 7 man VV, 2 lots of scout bikers and a 4 man plas inceptor unit instead.

2nd list has 15 drops, 1st has 11-12. Both have 2 units of Reivers, 2 7 man scout squads and a 6 man tac squad (would be 6 man tac vs 7 man scout, but, as they'd both be sat in ruins at the back of the table providing a final screen, i think tacts would be better with the 2+ save) Both also have a captain and a lieutenant as well.

Question is... Is the Stormraven too much of a liability? Especially if i don't go first? Both provide plenty of anti horde shots and attacks.

Other ideas are likely better, but i want to see how well this style might work overall.

Kdash wrote:
I keep getting drawn back to my Marines, but i can't decide between 2 options right now... Would be running Carcharodons with Tyberos as Raven Guard. It's semi fluffy but i want it to stand up to most lists...

Essentially, one list has 2 quad las relic contemptors and then 1 double fist relic contemptor in a stormraven. Also has 5 VV, 3 with double claws and 2 with double chainswords. Libby with jump pack might start in here as well, but prob not. Stormraven is kitted out with all the bolters and assault cannons.

2nd list has 2 quad las relic contemptors and then a 7 man VV, 2 lots of scout bikers and a 4 man plas inceptor unit instead.

2nd list has 15 drops, 1st has 11-12. Both have 2 units of Reivers, 2 7 man scout squads and a 6 man tac squad (would be 6 man tac vs 7 man scout, but, as they'd both be sat in ruins at the back of the table providing a final screen, i think tacts would be better with the 2+ save) Both also have a captain and a lieutenant as well.

Question is... Is the Stormraven too much of a liability? Especially if i don't go first? Both provide plenty of anti horde shots and attacks.

Other ideas are likely better, but i want to see how well this style might work overall.

Couple things:
1. Black Templars is both more "fluffy" and probably a better chapter tactic if you plan on getting choppy. You can take the Black Templar tactic and still take psykers. Unknown chapters can take any tactic that is deemed appropriate, and the Black Templar no psyker rule just means you can't take PSYKERS with the BLACK TEMPLAR keyword.

2. You can save a lot of points by making those quad las contemptors into Mortis contemptors instead of Relic contemptors. Same dakka, less tanky, but way less points.

3. Your best bet is just to try it out and see what works. You're not going to build a perfect list on math alone, especially when you don't have any jumping off points since Carcharodons aren't ran competitively. Also, get Tyberos if you don't have him. He's a beast.

@godardc The best way to keep the Preds alive is to run 4-5. It sucks but it works. Another option is to make them need to kill something else first. Like a Land Raider or Storm Raven with dangerous cargo, or some Dreads charging up the field to get into melee. Repulsors may actually be great at this.

@Mandragola Pedro is one of my favorites actually. His +1 attack pairs really well with Terminators, Assault Centurions, Honor Guard, or Melee Vets. I do admittedly run the Lieutenant or a Captain as my Warlord with him, but he can make a scary CC bomb in an otherwise lackluster CC army. Stormraven with him, Lieutenant, Apothecary, 3 Assault Centurions, and an Ironclad is downright scary if you can't shoot it down.

@Kdash I want to like the Storm Raven, but I find them to be too big of a magnet without other threats. It gets expensive to make other threats though. If you can keep it out of LOS it is definitely worth it but otherwise, I find they get dropped pretty quickly. That being said I prefer the second list. I like inceptors since their price cut, and scout bikes are pretty decent for what they are.

@SputnikDX The Mortis Relic Contemptors also hit on a 2+ rather than a 3+ on top of being more tanky. Is it worth it? Still not sure but it is more in favor of the contemptor.

 SputnikDX wrote:

Kdash wrote:
I keep getting drawn back to my Marines, but i can't decide between 2 options right now... Would be running Carcharodons with Tyberos as Raven Guard. It's semi fluffy but i want it to stand up to most lists...

Essentially, one list has 2 quad las relic contemptors and then 1 double fist relic contemptor in a stormraven. Also has 5 VV, 3 with double claws and 2 with double chainswords. Libby with jump pack might start in here as well, but prob not. Stormraven is kitted out with all the bolters and assault cannons.

2nd list has 2 quad las relic contemptors and then a 7 man VV, 2 lots of scout bikers and a 4 man plas inceptor unit instead.

2nd list has 15 drops, 1st has 11-12. Both have 2 units of Reivers, 2 7 man scout squads and a 6 man tac squad (would be 6 man tac vs 7 man scout, but, as they'd both be sat in ruins at the back of the table providing a final screen, i think tacts would be better with the 2+ save) Both also have a captain and a lieutenant as well.

Question is... Is the Stormraven too much of a liability? Especially if i don't go first? Both provide plenty of anti horde shots and attacks.

Other ideas are likely better, but i want to see how well this style might work overall.

Couple things:
1. Black Templars is both more "fluffy" and probably a better chapter tactic if you plan on getting choppy. You can take the Black Templar tactic and still take psykers. Unknown chapters can take any tactic that is deemed appropriate, and the Black Templar no psyker rule just means you can't take PSYKERS with the BLACK TEMPLAR keyword.

2. You can save a lot of points by making those quad las contemptors into Mortis contemptors instead of Relic contemptors. Same dakka, less tanky, but way less points.

3. Your best bet is just to try it out and see what works. You're not going to build a perfect list on math alone, especially when you don't have any jumping off points since Carcharodons aren't ran competitively. Also, get Tyberos if you don't have him. He's a beast.

As of Outer Dark the whole sucessor thing has pretty much been resolved, if not phsyically stated. If i was going to argue the fact i could go BA, but statagey wise i'd be leaning heavily on sfts if not using the stormraven.

Changing to Motis would save me 60 points in total. Would drop in save and wounds along with the fnp. For the cost of another scout squad not sure it offers me much

Yeah, Carcharodons are all but confirmed to be Raven Guard, so I'd say use them like that and get used to the idea.

It isn't a bad idea by any means though. Strike From The Shadows is fluffy for them to am extent, and you want everything super close anyway to get the bonus from Tyberos.

Also keep in mind Tyberos is one of the few HQ units we have with enough killing power to gain his points back. Don't be afraid to charge him into something larger than himself on occasion.

 Captain Garius wrote:
@godardc The best way to keep the Preds alive is to run 4-5. It sucks but it works. Another option is to make them need to kill something else first. Like a Land Raider or Storm Raven with dangerous cargo, or some Dreads charging up the field to get into melee. Repulsors may actually be great at this.

@Mandragola Pedro is one of my favorites actually. His +1 attack pairs really well with Terminators, Assault Centurions, Honor Guard, or Melee Vets. I do admittedly run the Lieutenant or a Captain as my Warlord with him, but he can make a scary CC bomb in an otherwise lackluster CC army. Stormraven with him, Lieutenant, Apothecary, 3 Assault Centurions, and an Ironclad is downright scary if you can't shoot it down.

@Kdash I want to like the Storm Raven, but I find them to be too big of a magnet without other threats. It gets expensive to make other threats though. If you can keep it out of LOS it is definitely worth it but otherwise, I find they get dropped pretty quickly. That being said I prefer the second list. I like inceptors since their price cut, and scout bikes are pretty decent for what they are.

@SputnikDX The Mortis Relic Contemptors also hit on a 2+ rather than a 3+ on top of being more tanky. Is it worth it? Still not sure but it is more in favor of the contemptor.

There's a lot of dreadnoughts:
Dreadnoughts, Mortis Dreadnoughts, and Ironclad Dreadnoughts hit on 3+
Venerable Dreadnoughts, Contemptor Dreadnoughts, Mortis Contemptor Dreadnoughts, and all Relic Dreadnoughts hit on 2+

You don't need to go Relic Contemptor if he's just gonna be doing some dakka. The only thing you'll miss out on is some extra wounds, 2+ armor, FNP, and you'll be taking a Heavy Support slot instead of an Elite slot.

Company veterans with chainswords and stormbolters seem rather killy, but can quickly become expensive (almost 100pts for 5 guys). How do you play them ? I think of playing 15 of them, making the bulk of my ùain combat force, supported with some auras rerolls. They could even kill a rhino or preda without any heavy weapon.
But I am afraid that would be too expensive ?

Actually I think Command Squads might be a perfect fit for that new drill transport FW just released.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Yeah, Carcharodons are all but confirmed to be Raven Guard, so I'd say use them like that and get used to the idea.

It isn't a bad idea by any means though. Strike From The Shadows is fluffy for them to am extent, and you want everything super close anyway to get the bonus from Tyberos.

Also keep in mind Tyberos is one of the few HQ units we have with enough killing power to gain his points back. Don't be afraid to charge him into something larger than himself on occasion.

Well, in the list with the Stormraven, it'd cost 3 CP in Strike from the Shadows, Tyberos and 2 units of Reviers,(if i need null zone turn 1, then 4 CP) but list 2 means 5CP spent. Now, to me that is fine as it'd leave me with 3CP spare for the rest of the game, and as i'm already re-rolling most things it wouldn't really have too much of an impact.


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 SputnikDX wrote:

 Captain Garius wrote:
@godardc The best way to keep the Preds alive is to run 4-5. It sucks but it works. Another option is to make them need to kill something else first. Like a Land Raider or Storm Raven with dangerous cargo, or some Dreads charging up the field to get into melee. Repulsors may actually be great at this.

@Mandragola Pedro is one of my favorites actually. His +1 attack pairs really well with Terminators, Assault Centurions, Honor Guard, or Melee Vets. I do admittedly run the Lieutenant or a Captain as my Warlord with him, but he can make a scary CC bomb in an otherwise lackluster CC army. Stormraven with him, Lieutenant, Apothecary, 3 Assault Centurions, and an Ironclad is downright scary if you can't shoot it down.

@Kdash I want to like the Storm Raven, but I find them to be too big of a magnet without other threats. It gets expensive to make other threats though. If you can keep it out of LOS it is definitely worth it but otherwise, I find they get dropped pretty quickly. That being said I prefer the second list. I like inceptors since their price cut, and scout bikes are pretty decent for what they are.

@SputnikDX The Mortis Relic Contemptors also hit on a 2+ rather than a 3+ on top of being more tanky. Is it worth it? Still not sure but it is more in favor of the contemptor.

There's a lot of dreadnoughts:
Dreadnoughts, Mortis Dreadnoughts, and Ironclad Dreadnoughts hit on 3+
Venerable Dreadnoughts, Contemptor Dreadnoughts, Mortis Contemptor Dreadnoughts, and all Relic Dreadnoughts hit on 2+

You don't need to go Relic Contemptor if he's just gonna be doing some dakka. The only thing you'll miss out on is some extra wounds, 2+ armor, FNP, and you'll be taking a Heavy Support slot instead of an Elite slot.

Is the 29 points per Dreadnought that big of an impact though/is the extra 29 points "worth it"? In one list it essentially means the stormraven changes its bolters for missiles and the other list it amounts to 2-4 more MEQ bodies. The heavy vs Elite slot doesn't really bother me that much, as i have enough "normal elites" to meet the "relic" tax.


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For reference, below are the 2 lists i'm looking at. Only restriction is that you can't have more than 1 of each detachment type.

List 1 - 1999 pts, 7CP




List 2 2000 pts, 8CP

I think I like the second list quite a lot better. But I’m not a fan of your battalion. I’d trim away the spare guys do as to turn the tacticals and maybe one of the scout squads into intercessors. You’d get more staying power and a bit more offence too that way.

What are people’s thoughts on the termite? It looks like a good ride for assault centurions. Only thing is it fails to explain when they get out - so presumably they don’t until the start of the following turn - or when the thing explodes.

If you can’t get out when it turns up then the thing’s a gimmick really. Awesome model though.

Did they forget to include Centurions on the list of things they can't transport?

I'm liking that idea instead of Command Squads?

Mandragola wrote:
I think I like the second list quite a lot better. But I’m not a fan of your battalion. I’d trim away the spare guys do as to turn the tacticals and maybe one of the scout squads into intercessors. You’d get more staying power and a bit more offence too that way.

What are people’s thoughts on the termite? It looks like a good ride for assault centurions. Only thing is it fails to explain when they get out - so presumably they don’t until the start of the following turn - or when the thing explodes.

If you can’t get out when it turns up then the thing’s a gimmick really. Awesome model though.

The battalion is a bit... different i admit, but my thought process is like this -

the 2 scout squads are simply there to take board control in deployment. 5 man squads are ok at this, but having 2 extra models per squad gives me an extra ~6" of control. Everything kinda revolves around dropping in a lot of squads with Strike from the Shadows, so i'm going to need the control and space. The 6 man tac squad - i simply had the points for a 6th model. Doesn't really do much, but, it is just a final line of defence for the Contemptors. I could go for scouts - but the tacs have more staying power, just as the Intercessors have more over the tacs. Maybe i should find 10 points somewhere and upgrade them (but part of me also wants at least 1 squads in MKV armour for fluff bunny purposes. But, i guess it's kinda the right choice! Drop 1 scout, add in 5 Intercessors with a Grenade Launcher, and back at 2k)

Pistols and Knives for the Scouts, simply because they'll be in Tyberos' +1 strength bubble and already up the table. Just another annoying threat to have to be removed.
Leiutenant babysits the dreads, and the Librarian is a mobile null zone bunker. I'd prob drop the Teeth of Terror and run Armour Indomidus on the Libby instead, and then just pay the CP for ToT if i feel like i need it, as the Captain will prob be mostly hovering around 12" away most of the time anyway.

As for the Termite - i'm not sure right now. It is essentially a 106 point Drop Pod that causes 1 mortal wound when it arrives to every enemy unit in 12". In most games i reckon you'll only get 1 or 2 wounds tops - especially once your opponent knows its restrictions. Carrying 12 is ok, but, where it differs from the Drop Pod, is that it looks like you don't disembark straight away, so it essentially means it just turns into a dead weight first turn that deals a couple of mortal wounds and shoots 2 storm bolters. It has 10 wounds, so it degrades and while it is T8, it's still going to get popped quickly, especially if the unit inside is scary, or something like 216 points of storm bolter wielding veterans. A 6" move as well, means that certain armies (Dark Eldar most of all) can just ignore it and move away from it, waiting for you to disembark the units inside.

The other option is to take them on mass, and use their mortal wounds to remove small screening units - but, at that point you could just spam Librarians and smite, as you'll be getting D3 per smite every turn instead of just an initial 1 or 2. (jump pack libby with staff and storm bolter is 122 points)

It is also worth noting, that this is a Space Marine only transport as well, which Chaos also get to use, but with extra special rules - because Chaos. In fact, it might be better for Chaos and Marines, simply because it can transport 12 Cultists, opening up a couple more of the "spam" options. I still don't think we'll see it anywhere near events though.
Rules



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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Did they forget to include Centurions on the list of things they can't transport?

I'm liking that idea instead of Command Squads?

Good point, but, are you really going to spend 300-400+ points on a min squad of Centurions and this transport? Sure, it can hold 12 Centurions atm, but that's then well over 50% of your 2000 points and offers you nothing beyond a turn 2 horde clearing gimmick. On top of that, chances are you won't get the Centurions into combat in your next turn either, unless you're playing against a hard dedicated immovable castle army. You'd prob be looking at an 8" change, if not more, depending on how the screen was setup and which model gets removed from the mortal wound. (also without taking advancing into account for the screen)

Hello

Not a lot of opinions of the terminators or centurions? (very sorry if I failed using the ´search´ -ability...)

Am I the only one who thinks centurions are waay too costly for what they do? No near the power of obliterators.

Terminators (assault and normal) also feel pretty pricey, for the survivability they bring or have I missed something?