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 Yodhrin wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
There's something that really excites me in that article

as well as previously unexplored groupings like Necron dynasties and Adeptus Mechanicus forge worlds.

Void Dragon and Ad mech necron cults when?!

Hopefully not until long, long after humanity has died out and the earth has been burnt to a cinder by our expanding sun.

If they want to give us "radical" AdMech stuff like Xeno-Hybris? Yeah, cool. But enough with this "your whole favourite faction are double-dupes who exist only because of Just As Planned by ol' Golden Boy and the god of another faction entirely" guff. I want my hubris and ignorance of man creates monstrous dystopian version of transhumanism AdMech back, not Necron Robo-stooges.

Is better than "Nah, you aren't really good guys, you are Eldar creations and space Stalinism!"

Eh? Maybe I'm having a memory fail, but I don't recall anything about the Eldar in the Mechanicus origins, and if you don't like Space Stalinism and being a not-good-exactly-just-not-the-worst guy I think maybe none of the Imperial factions are for you


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alleus wrote:

I mean, you can hate the fluff all you want, but a cool kit is a cool kit, and if it fills a battlefield role that the marines have been missing until now, isn't that great?

Depends, for me the fluff and the army on the table aren't separate things - I liked SM because they're SM, an elite strike force that conducts brutal shock assaults and decapitation strikes. When I want something different, I go to a different army that better suits that want, I never really felt any need for SM to cover every battlefield role - to my taste they no more need Primaris than they needed their own attack fighters.

Nah , i was talking about the Tau and how they turned the Ethereal in cartoon villains with Farsight lore

 Nuclear Mekanik wrote:

Spoiler:

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
It honestly surprised me that the Primaris are included in the regular SM codex. The keyword system would allow separate regular and Primaris SM books to work together with no problems if the player wanted to mix them. If the Primaris get even half the attention that regular SM have had, how long until we are looking at a 2nd large codex or a codex supplement?

They're in the same codex because they are the same army...

They aren't a separate entity. Primaris Marines that are in the Ultramarines Chapter are Ultramarines. Why would they be in a different book? Should Wulfen be in a separate codex from Space Wolves? Death Company from Blood Angels? Because it is the same type of thing.

Not trying to say that they are a different force. But if the regular SM range is essentially complete and done(yes its a big if) with GW's future focus for releases being on the Primaris line. A separate Primaris codex would give more room for background and rules for both SM types. 8th editions keyword system and army building rules, along side a regular points review in a generals handbook style release(this is probably what Chapter approved is going to be) would allow both to be fully compatible without having to re-do a large book every few years. The Primaris book would effectively be codex SM Vol2 all the new stuff.

The fact that Primaris Marines are in the same codex with the regular Marines goes to show that the SM Range is far from done. If it was done, they would have just left them in the Index and released Codex: Primaris Marines. But they didn't. They put them together because they are meant to be run as one force.

everything GW has said and done with Primaris Marines leads me to belvie they are deliberatly trying to send a "... it's cool, we're not phasing out regular marines, they still have a big place" a divided codex would have likely sent the oppisite message

Also - Yay!! Only one book to collect. Bearing in mind we will probably be getting a SW, DA, BA etc codex as well as Vanilla/Blue Marines + Primaris, I'm really pleased Primaris is NOT separate. People making "sigh, it could have been two books" type noises, please don't encourage GW to print even more £30+ books that we need to play this game.

I get that for some people the books are a huge part of the hobby, the same way that some people enjoy other aspects the most, like painting or converting over actually playing the game, but I can't understand anyone wanting this to be two codexes (codices?) as well as all the other stuff we are investing as part of 8th.

It makes a certain amount of sense if you consider possible new releases. Primaris are pushed for all chapters, so not only the vanilla codex will have the rules for the models released in the near future, but they will be repeated in Codex Space Wolves, Dark Angels and Blood Angels.

Normal Marines are done and only Primaris receive new models in the future. Say a year from now, new models are released. What then? Is GW going to release Codex Space Marines, Codex Dark Angels, Codex Space Wolves and Codex Blood Angels again? Or just a supplement, aka a separate book just for Primaris, for use with all loyalist codices?

There's no real way around a new Primaris book (or updating all loyalist chapter books) except strictly sticking with rules provided in the box. I don't think GW will happily do that. Skip the chance for selling more background and pretty picture books alongside their new release? Nah, I don't think so.

Since GW seems determined to continue releasing books and only includes stuff that is for sale at the time of release, we're bound to get books upon books. You could argue having codices with old Marines that are bought once and can be used until the end of time because new Marines get no more upgrades along with a Primaris book that will be up to date until the next Primaris wave a better outlook than whatever release model GW has in mind for the future. Who knows if they're not going back to having to have a codex, a supplement and three campaign books just to play the latest models?

Or they could simply put out a Chapter Approved 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020.... ect, with new rules.

Which would give the extra book you have to have a different name, but doesn't change the problem of having to have an additional book.

But thanks for the reminder. Now our scenario could be that we need a codex, a supplement, three campaign books and Chapter Approved. That's a clear improvement.

Probably more like Codex, supplement and a stack of data sheets that came with the models or were downloaded from the GW site. Depending on the battleground/campaign rules the mobile library may still have to come along though

30coins wrote:
Not sure if I can post this
Better reiver heads:
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/us8AAOSwG-1Wwb8Y/s-l1600.jpg

Do you know who actually makes these heads? I like 'em a lot, but there's no info on the link to help me find out where to get some.Anyone?

https://wargameexclusive.com/shop/space-warriors/5-rubidium-heads-set-in-28mm/

 BrookM wrote:
https://wargameexclusive.com/shop/space-warriors/5-rubidium-heads-set-in-28mm/

Excellent, thanks.

Just a quick reminder that anyone after the Anniversary Primaris, the nice one with the better weapons and lower price than the non-limited one will first be available to order at GW Milton Keynes tomorrow

Currently got an order to place for early 80!

To those of you who think 'normal Space Marines' are done and that we will only get Primaris new releases from now on...

We currently have the broadest spectrum of currently available armour marks in GW plastic we've ever had. This includes recent releases of Mk III and Mk IV power armour, and equivalent era terminators and characters etc...

There is no evidence to suggest that all future releases will me Mk X onwards only, other than traditional doomsaying from glass half empty speculative rumour-mongers.

We are still waiting for a space marine bike resculpt. Not Deathwatch Bikes, or Ravenwing Bikes, or Gravis Hoverbikes TM just regular vanilla space marine bikes (and attack bikes).

All the evidence suggests that GW recognise an appetite for Power Armour, across all Marks. Whilst this may be much to the chagrin of Xenos players, it will still take years and years to have moved beyond the currently available ranges. We could be comfortably into 9th Edition and still be seeing current power amour marks across the entire range on the shelves and getting new releases. There is no need for Codex Primaris.

they'll redo bikes, but they'll be called Primaris Invaderators and will have a variant of mk. 10 - maybe with wheels for arms and legs. Quad bikes! And the eyes are headlights

Joking aside you'd be mad to keep holding out for new plastic bikes in the old scale. No way is that happening

It might not have been GWs plan (or was it), but gamers and hobbyists alike will start flocking to the new Primaris Models to make their "true scale" Space Marine Army. It will be inevitable that larger Primaris models (played as SMs) will overtake the "old" SM model range with conversions and kit bashes. Give it a few years for the old SM stuff to quietly vanish. I watched this same thing happen when my Rogue Trader miniatures (technically still valid and playable army today, bar some weapons) were side lined for the newer & shinier models over the first few years of the new SM models. Then poof, no more Rogue Trader minis... Heck, a Primaris is on the new Astares/SM codex cover for Pete's sake! Never say never...

 Bull0 wrote:
they'll redo bikes, but they'll be called Primaris Invaderators and will have a variant of mk. 10 - maybe with wheels for arms and legs. Quad bikes! And the eyes are headlights

Joking aside you'd be mad to keep holding out for new plastic bikes in the old scale. No way is that happening

My over all feel is that Inceptor Marines are intended to be the "Primaris Bikes"

 krazynadechukr wrote:

Spoiler:

 Nuclear Mekanik wrote:
To those of you who think 'normal Space Marines' are done and that we will only get Primaris new releases from now on...

We currently have the broadest spectrum of currently available armour marks in GW plastic we've ever had. This includes recent releases of Mk III and Mk IV power armour, and equivalent era terminators and characters etc...

There is no evidence to suggest that all future releases will me Mk X onwards only, other than traditional doomsaying from glass half empty speculative rumour-mongers.

We are still waiting for a space marine bike resculpt. Not Deathwatch Bikes, or Ravenwing Bikes, or Gravis Hoverbikes TM just regular vanilla space marine bikes (and attack bikes).

All the evidence suggests that GW recognise an appetite for Power Armour, across all Marks. Whilst this may be much to the chagrin of Xenos players, it will still take years and years to have moved beyond the currently available ranges. We could be comfortably into 9th Edition and still be seeing current power amour marks across the entire range on the shelves and getting new releases. There is no need for Codex Primaris.

It might not have been GWs plan (or was it), but gamers and hobbyists alike will start flocking to the new Primaris Models to make their "true scale" Space Marine Army. It will be inevitable that larger Primaris models (played as SMs) will overtake the "old" SM model range with conversions and kit bashes. Give it a few years for the old SM stuff to quietly vanish. I watched this same thing happen when my Rogue Trader miniatures (technically still valid and playable army today, bar some weapons) were side lined for the newer & shinier models over the first few years of the new SM models. Then poof, no more Rogue Trader minis... Heck, a Primaris is on the new Astares/SM codex cover for Pete's sake! Never say never...

I think this is the most likely case. Though I would like to see vanilla marines continue on with a re-shaped sculpt to make them more true scale (while also not being Primaris) utilizing the older marks of armor to distinguish them since the size will be similar.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
they'll redo bikes, but they'll be called Primaris Invaderators and will have a variant of mk. 10 - maybe with wheels for arms and legs. Quad bikes! And the eyes are headlights

Joking aside you'd be mad to keep holding out for new plastic bikes in the old scale. No way is that happening

My over all feel is that Inceptor Marines are intended to be the "Primaris Bikes"

Yeah GW seem to be going with "close but different" with the Primaris units so far. Close enough to fill a similar role, but different enough to not be a direct replacement. Time will tell if they are willing or able to keep that up as the Primaris line expands.

GoatboyBeta wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
they'll redo bikes, but they'll be called Primaris Invaderators and will have a variant of mk. 10 - maybe with wheels for arms and legs. Quad bikes! And the eyes are headlights

Joking aside you'd be mad to keep holding out for new plastic bikes in the old scale. No way is that happening

My over all feel is that Inceptor Marines are intended to be the "Primaris Bikes"

Yeah GW seem to be going with "close but different" with the Primaris units so far. Close enough to fill a similar role, but different enough to not be a direct replacement. Time will tell if they are willing or able to keep that up as the Primaris line expands.

well what we can see so far they've got a good base. the real trick'll be long term with vehicles etc.

It is kind of dumb that things that can carry a Terminator or Centurion can't carry Primaris.

 krazynadechukr wrote:

Spoiler:

 Nuclear Mekanik wrote:
To those of you who think 'normal Space Marines' are done and that we will only get Primaris new releases from now on...

We currently have the broadest spectrum of currently available armour marks in GW plastic we've ever had. This includes recent releases of Mk III and Mk IV power armour, and equivalent era terminators and characters etc...

There is no evidence to suggest that all future releases will me Mk X onwards only, other than traditional doomsaying from glass half empty speculative rumour-mongers.

We are still waiting for a space marine bike resculpt. Not Deathwatch Bikes, or Ravenwing Bikes, or Gravis Hoverbikes TM just regular vanilla space marine bikes (and attack bikes).

All the evidence suggests that GW recognise an appetite for Power Armour, across all Marks. Whilst this may be much to the chagrin of Xenos players, it will still take years and years to have moved beyond the currently available ranges. We could be comfortably into 9th Edition and still be seeing current power amour marks across the entire range on the shelves and getting new releases. There is no need for Codex Primaris.

It might not have been GWs plan (or was it), but gamers and hobbyists alike will start flocking to the new Primaris Models to make their "true scale" Space Marine Army. It will be inevitable that larger Primaris models (played as SMs) will overtake the "old" SM model range with conversions and kit bashes. Give it a few years for the old SM stuff to quietly vanish. I watched this same thing happen when my Rogue Trader miniatures (technically still valid and playable army today, bar some weapons) were side lined for the newer & shinier models over the first few years of the new SM models. Then poof, no more Rogue Trader minis... Heck, a Primaris is on the new Astares/SM codex cover for Pete's sake! Never say never...

What? The RT minis were replaced due to wear and replacement kits, as well as improvements in manufacturing (especially plastic, which was their first large scale effort... ever). There are a lot of recent SM kits, making the situation very different.

I also think you vastly overestimate how many people care about supposed 'true scale,' Since it's a scale GW actively avoids, in favor of the exaggerated heroic scale, I don't see them caring about it either.

fyi pre-orders are up on NZ site.

reivers heads are indeed separate - can see those parts being sought after.
one thing i didnt really notice when the pics of them were first shown, is that they only have a full shoulder pad on the left arm, which is an... interesting design choice imo. offends my sense of symmetry

 Nicky J wrote:
fyi pre-orders are up on NZ site.

reivers heads are indeed separate - can see those parts being sought after.
one thing i didnt really notice when the pics of them were first shown, is that they only have a full shoulder pad on the left arm, which is an... interesting design choice imo. offends my sense of symmetry

Might be easy eneugh to toss a shoulder pad on the other arm though, if youre like me you're sitting on a big stockpile.

I really like to see space marines without a shoulderpad. Now we only need SPace Marines without Backpacks.
After bulding the Primaris of Dark Vengeance I actually didn't put Backpacks in them. They look so much... cooler, at least to me.

So to get a squad of 5 intercessors I could either buy 2 packs of easy to build ones and convert a Lieutenant or buy the magazine and get a painting lesson as well.

Voss wrote:

I also think you vastly overestimate how many people care about supposed 'true scale,' Since it's a scale GW actively avoids, in favor of the exaggerated heroic scale, I don't see them caring about it either.

Truescale in this context doesn't mean Classical/Da Vinci accurate human proportions, it just means Space Marines that are actually bigger than normal human models. All of the methods commonly used for truescaling still result in models that are pretty heroically proportioned. And Primaris are near enough spot-on for "truescale" Marines, even to the point that they're roughly the "correct" size next to the basic washing machine dread, so I suspect despite the protestations of the "7 feet and not a single more micometer!" and "it's the Guard that are too big!" brigades somebody at GW cares about it to some extent.

---

Looking at the Reivers I'll be holding off for the full kit, I've made quite enough offerings to the blood god chopping the shoulderpads off the box set Primaris, I suspect trying to turn those into Scouts would cost me a finger or two.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
So to get a squad of 5 intercessors I could either buy 2 packs of easy to build ones and convert a Lieutenant or buy the magazine and get a painting lesson as well.

Or grab a set of 5 off ebay for ten quid, unless you're specifically after the new slightly different poses.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Voss wrote:

I also think you vastly overestimate how many people care about supposed 'true scale,' Since it's a scale GW actively avoids, in favor of the exaggerated heroic scale, I don't see them caring about it either.

Truescale in this context doesn't mean Classical/Da Vinci accurate human proportions, it just means Space Marines that are actually bigger than normal human models. All of the methods commonly used for truescaling still result in models that are pretty heroically proportioned. And Primaris are near enough spot-on for "truescale" Marines, even to the point that they're roughly the "correct" size next to the basic washing machine dread, so I suspect despite the protestations of the "7 feet and not a single more micometer!" and "it's the Guard that are too big!" brigades somebody at GW cares about it to some extent.

---

Looking at the Reivers I'll be holding off for the full kit, I've made quite enough offerings to the blood god chopping the shoulderpads off the box set Primaris, I suspect trying to turn those into Scouts would cost me a finger or two.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
So to get a squad of 5 intercessors I could either buy 2 packs of easy to build ones and convert a Lieutenant or buy the magazine and get a painting lesson as well.

Or grab a set of 5 off ebay for ten quid, unless you're specifically after the new slightly different poses.

I agree with what you're saying but should point out. This is the same "true scale" that involves Da Vinci, the 8 heads rule or anything else. The problem is, These are not humans. People getting hung up on the fact that they should be this high or that high.. Ultimately, for me the biggest thing that matters, is that we're told in numerous books and pieces of lore that a Space Marine towers over a person.. Which, previously they did not. Now they do. Is their scale accurate? Who knows.. they're fictional superhumans that are ridiculously big wearing armor that surpasses our current technological capabilities.. ie.. science fiction.. So everyone hating on the scale.. From a narrative standpoint, these guys tower over normal humans. Old marines did not. See.. wasn't that easy?

Next up, an in-depth discussion on how logical sentient homicidal fungi are as a species and a personal favorite, how are those crisis suits supported by such a thin ankle!

For real though, I'm building my Primaris as Black Templars and looking over the upgrade kit from the old BTs (which I never owned), I'm thinking that the weapons and hands might be at least somewhat similarly sized. Has anyone given this a look?

I think it is dumb that, as of right now, Reivers are only available in 3-man Squads but their minimum squad is 5 Marines. I guess I could get two of them, but I would much rather just wait for a kit that has five already in it, unless the cost is significantly greater than the Easy to Build kit. Same for the Intercessor.

I am ready for them to start rolling out previews for actual Primaris kits, to be honest. I will wait until then. I am afraid the Repulsor is going to be $80+ USD though.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I think it is dumb that, as of right now, Reivers are only available in 3-man Squads but their minimum squad is 5 Marines. I guess I could get two of them, but I would much rather just wait for a kit that has five already in it, unless the cost is significantly greater than the Easy to Build kit. Same for the Intercessor.

I am ready for them to start rolling out previews for actual Primaris kits, to be honest. I will wait until then. I am afraid the Repulsor is going to be $80+ USD though.

the blurb on the website says "Rules for these miniatures are included in the box", so i'm assuming that will be rules for a 3 man squad...?

 Nicky J wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I think it is dumb that, as of right now, Reivers are only available in 3-man Squads but their minimum squad is 5 Marines. I guess I could get two of them, but I would much rather just wait for a kit that has five already in it, unless the cost is significantly greater than the Easy to Build kit. Same for the Intercessor.

I am ready for them to start rolling out previews for actual Primaris kits, to be honest. I will wait until then. I am afraid the Repulsor is going to be $80+ USD though.

the blurb on the website says "Rules for these miniatures are included in the box", so i'm assuming that will be rules for a 3 man squad...?

Very likely. The other Primaris Marines operate in fairly small squads. It's the main reason I've not been in a big hurry to assemble the ones I've got.

 Nicky J wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I think it is dumb that, as of right now, Reivers are only available in 3-man Squads but their minimum squad is 5 Marines. I guess I could get two of them, but I would much rather just wait for a kit that has five already in it, unless the cost is significantly greater than the Easy to Build kit. Same for the Intercessor.

I am ready for them to start rolling out previews for actual Primaris kits, to be honest. I will wait until then. I am afraid the Repulsor is going to be $80+ USD though.

the blurb on the website says "Rules for these miniatures are included in the box", so i'm assuming that will be rules for a 3 man squad...?

They can still be run with the understrength unit rule, but it is still ridiculous.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I think it is dumb that, as of right now, Reivers are only available in 3-man Squads but their minimum squad is 5 Marines.

Wait, we have the rules for them already? Where?

Edit: oh, I see, the squad size for matched play.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I think it is dumb that, as of right now, Reivers are only available in 3-man Squads but their minimum squad is 5 Marines.

Wait, we have the rules for them already? Where?

Edit: oh, I see, the squad size for matched play.

We should see their rules early next week. That is when the Captain and Librarian rules hit.

One thing though, Deathwatch finally got Scouts! Sorta!