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It's literally *written in the fluff on the opposite page* about how there are Terminators

and then they missed them off the list

I get its meant to be a stopgap, but why is our faction utter garbage, and other factions get the shizzle?

It's just... bloody stupid.

So after a page or two complaining about it, could we put the speculations to a rest, please. This is a news & rumor thread and will bring you proper information once it is available

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Galas wrote:
That quote of Gav is how I see it. Being a marine devoted to Nurgle dont makes you a Plague marine. You can be a Khorne marine renegade chapter without being all Berzerkers.
A Terminator devoted to Nurgle isnt a Death Guard elite plague terminator. Is the difference between following a religion and becoming a fanatical and totally devoted member of that religion.
To say that all Slaaneshi marked and blessed marines are Noisy ones isnt correct.

That's why I overall feel the new Death Guard Terminators should have a mildly specific loadout like the current Thousand Sons Terminators. You trade flexibility for a really fixed job and to be good at it (which, for Rubrics, is durable Anti Infantry plodding foward).

I'd like to see some options, but yeah I doubt they'll be as versitle as standard chaos termies. I'm just hoping they have a "Tatical build" and a "plague reaper" build.

Mostly, all the Cult Legions need to be able to get regular Terminators as well, but the fixed ones do make sense.

Fixed ones make zero sense unless they are a seperate and second unit altogether. The only reason the Thousand Sons have a fixed layout is because they're Rubrics! Rubrics sacrifice a lot of versatility for raw survivability - in 2nd ed is was immunity to strength weaponry, in 3.5 it was the extra wound, with the Scarab Occult it's the increased invuln during 7th ed and in 8th it's the bonus to ALL saves against low damage weapons.

To be quite frank - I'll only accept fixed Legion Terminators for DG, WE and EC if we see the exact same nerf happen to SW, BA and DA.

And for those of you who are going ' stop overreacting, you're getting equality' - can you imagine the veritable gakstorm that would happen if BA, SW and DA Terminators lost options they've had since 2nd ed?

Let's take away the standard power fist and stormbolter combo from Wolf Guard Terminators.
Let's remove Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields from Deathwing.
Let's take away standard power fist and stormbolter for Blood Angels.

To make it even more like what DG are potentially going to get shafted with....

Your Wolf Terminators now all have a fixed layout of Power swords and combi-frost guns! Oh, you have Terminators with other layouts? Well, you can always field them with a seperate Chapter using the Imperium keyword.

Your Deathwing now all have a fixed layout of Power Fists and Power Mauls. Oh? You don't have that modelled? You have other layouts? Well it's okay....

Your Blood Angels Terminators now have a fixed layout of Power Axes and single Lightning Claws. Oh? You have other layouts....well, you can always field them as....

Do you see how telling us 'we can always field them as Nurgle Marked Terminators' isn't quite the same thing? How getting fixed weapon layouts which we're likely to not even have modelled (thus making it impossible to even physrep existing units as the new unit for 99% of us) is not a positive but a ridiculous penalty?

That isn't actually an accurate analogy to what Death Guard would be going through if they lost access to normal terminator options in favor of the new guys. It would be like Dark Angels losing basic Deathwing squads entirely because they have Deathwing Knights, Blood Angels losing assault marines because they have death company, etc.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:


Fixed ones make zero sense unless they are a seperate and second unit altogether. The only reason the Thousand Sons have a fixed layout is because they're Rubrics! Rubrics sacrifice a lot of versatility for raw survivability - in 2nd ed is was immunity to strength weaponry, in 3.5 it was the extra wound, with the Scarab Occult it's the increased invuln during 7th ed and in 8th it's the bonus to ALL saves against low damage weapons.

2nd ed Thousand Sons were the most versatile Cult Troops. They were allowed 3 choices per squad from the Special/Heavy Weapons.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Galas wrote:
That quote of Gav is how I see it. Being a marine devoted to Nurgle dont makes you a Plague marine. You can be a Khorne marine renegade chapter without being all Berzerkers.
A Terminator devoted to Nurgle isnt a Death Guard elite plague terminator. Is the difference between following a religion and becoming a fanatical and totally devoted member of that religion.
To say that all Slaaneshi marked and blessed marines are Noisy ones isnt correct.

That's why I overall feel the new Death Guard Terminators should have a mildly specific loadout like the current Thousand Sons Terminators. You trade flexibility for a really fixed job and to be good at it (which, for Rubrics, is durable Anti Infantry plodding foward).

I'd like to see some options, but yeah I doubt they'll be as versitle as standard chaos termies. I'm just hoping they have a "Tatical build" and a "plague reaper" build.

Mostly, all the Cult Legions need to be able to get regular Terminators as well, but the fixed ones do make sense.

Fixed ones make zero sense unless they are a seperate and second unit altogether. The only reason the Thousand Sons have a fixed layout is because they're Rubrics! Rubrics sacrifice a lot of versatility for raw survivability - in 2nd ed is was immunity to strength weaponry, in 3.5 it was the extra wound, with the Scarab Occult it's the increased invuln during 7th ed and in 8th it's the bonus to ALL saves against low damage weapons.

To be quite frank - I'll only accept fixed Legion Terminators for DG, WE and EC if we see the exact same nerf happen to SW, BA and DA.

And for those of you who are going ' stop overreacting, you're getting equality' - can you imagine the veritable gakstorm that would happen if BA, SW and DA Terminators lost options they've had since 2nd ed?

Let's take away the standard power fist and stormbolter combo from Wolf Guard Terminators.
Let's remove Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields from Deathwing.
Let's take away standard power fist and stormbolter for Blood Angels.

To make it even more like what DG are potentially going to get shafted with....

Your Wolf Terminators now all have a fixed layout of Power swords and combi-frost guns! Oh, you have Terminators with other layouts? Well, you can always field them with a seperate Chapter using the Imperium keyword.

Your Deathwing now all have a fixed layout of Power Fists and Power Mauls. Oh? You don't have that modelled? You have other layouts? Well it's okay....

Your Blood Angels Terminators now have a fixed layout of Power Axes and single Lightning Claws. Oh? You have other layouts....well, you can always field them as....

Do you see how telling us 'we can always field them as Nurgle Marked Terminators' isn't quite the same thing? How getting fixed weapon layouts which we're likely to not even have modelled (thus making it impossible to even physrep existing units as the new unit for 99% of us) is not a positive but a ridiculous penalty?

That isn't actually an accurate analogy to what Death Guard would be going through if they lost access to normal terminator options in favor of the new guys. It would be like Dark Angels losing basic Deathwing squads entirely because they have Deathwing Knights, Blood Angels losing assault marines because they have death company, etc.

Death guard haven't lost anything though, they didntnexist previously. They had substitute rules to represent a force similar to the legion using nurgle marked terminators.

The only true death guard units have been plague zombies, plague marines and typhus. Everything else is a generic unit with a Mark, not death guard.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Galas wrote:
That quote of Gav is how I see it. Being a marine devoted to Nurgle dont makes you a Plague marine. You can be a Khorne marine renegade chapter without being all Berzerkers.
A Terminator devoted to Nurgle isnt a Death Guard elite plague terminator. Is the difference between following a religion and becoming a fanatical and totally devoted member of that religion.
To say that all Slaaneshi marked and blessed marines are Noisy ones isnt correct.

That's why I overall feel the new Death Guard Terminators should have a mildly specific loadout like the current Thousand Sons Terminators. You trade flexibility for a really fixed job and to be good at it (which, for Rubrics, is durable Anti Infantry plodding foward).

I'd like to see some options, but yeah I doubt they'll be as versitle as standard chaos termies. I'm just hoping they have a "Tatical build" and a "plague reaper" build.

Mostly, all the Cult Legions need to be able to get regular Terminators as well, but the fixed ones do make sense.

Fixed ones make zero sense unless they are a seperate and second unit altogether. The only reason the Thousand Sons have a fixed layout is because they're Rubrics! Rubrics sacrifice a lot of versatility for raw survivability - in 2nd ed is was immunity to strength weaponry, in 3.5 it was the extra wound, with the Scarab Occult it's the increased invuln during 7th ed and in 8th it's the bonus to ALL saves against low damage weapons.

To be quite frank - I'll only accept fixed Legion Terminators for DG, WE and EC if we see the exact same nerf happen to SW, BA and DA.

And for those of you who are going ' stop overreacting, you're getting equality' - can you imagine the veritable gakstorm that would happen if BA, SW and DA Terminators lost options they've had since 2nd ed?

Let's take away the standard power fist and stormbolter combo from Wolf Guard Terminators.
Let's remove Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields from Deathwing.
Let's take away standard power fist and stormbolter for Blood Angels.

To make it even more like what DG are potentially going to get shafted with....

Your Wolf Terminators now all have a fixed layout of Power swords and combi-frost guns! Oh, you have Terminators with other layouts? Well, you can always field them with a seperate Chapter using the Imperium keyword.

Your Deathwing now all have a fixed layout of Power Fists and Power Mauls. Oh? You don't have that modelled? You have other layouts? Well it's okay....

Your Blood Angels Terminators now have a fixed layout of Power Axes and single Lightning Claws. Oh? You have other layouts....well, you can always field them as....

Do you see how telling us 'we can always field them as Nurgle Marked Terminators' isn't quite the same thing? How getting fixed weapon layouts which we're likely to not even have modelled (thus making it impossible to even physrep existing units as the new unit for 99% of us) is not a positive but a ridiculous penalty?

That isn't actually an accurate analogy to what Death Guard would be going through if they lost access to normal terminator options in favor of the new guys. It would be like Dark Angels losing basic Deathwing squads entirely because they have Deathwing Knights, Blood Angels losing assault marines because they have death company, etc.

Yes. The DG termies will probably be an entirely different unit, like Death Wing knights, and may still have access to regular terminators. So calm down. Plus most people I've played with have no issue with counts-as models, so you could just take regular chaos terminators and ask your opponent if its ok. Or take another detachment of some DG splinter group, paint them as DG and roll with it.

Dudeface wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Galas wrote:
That quote of Gav is how I see it. Being a marine devoted to Nurgle dont makes you a Plague marine. You can be a Khorne marine renegade chapter without being all Berzerkers.
A Terminator devoted to Nurgle isnt a Death Guard elite plague terminator. Is the difference between following a religion and becoming a fanatical and totally devoted member of that religion.
To say that all Slaaneshi marked and blessed marines are Noisy ones isnt correct.

That's why I overall feel the new Death Guard Terminators should have a mildly specific loadout like the current Thousand Sons Terminators. You trade flexibility for a really fixed job and to be good at it (which, for Rubrics, is durable Anti Infantry plodding foward).

I'd like to see some options, but yeah I doubt they'll be as versitle as standard chaos termies. I'm just hoping they have a "Tatical build" and a "plague reaper" build.

Mostly, all the Cult Legions need to be able to get regular Terminators as well, but the fixed ones do make sense.

Fixed ones make zero sense unless they are a seperate and second unit altogether. The only reason the Thousand Sons have a fixed layout is because they're Rubrics! Rubrics sacrifice a lot of versatility for raw survivability - in 2nd ed is was immunity to strength weaponry, in 3.5 it was the extra wound, with the Scarab Occult it's the increased invuln during 7th ed and in 8th it's the bonus to ALL saves against low damage weapons.

To be quite frank - I'll only accept fixed Legion Terminators for DG, WE and EC if we see the exact same nerf happen to SW, BA and DA.

And for those of you who are going ' stop overreacting, you're getting equality' - can you imagine the veritable gakstorm that would happen if BA, SW and DA Terminators lost options they've had since 2nd ed?

Let's take away the standard power fist and stormbolter combo from Wolf Guard Terminators.
Let's remove Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields from Deathwing.
Let's take away standard power fist and stormbolter for Blood Angels.

To make it even more like what DG are potentially going to get shafted with....

Your Wolf Terminators now all have a fixed layout of Power swords and combi-frost guns! Oh, you have Terminators with other layouts? Well, you can always field them with a seperate Chapter using the Imperium keyword.

Your Deathwing now all have a fixed layout of Power Fists and Power Mauls. Oh? You don't have that modelled? You have other layouts? Well it's okay....

Your Blood Angels Terminators now have a fixed layout of Power Axes and single Lightning Claws. Oh? You have other layouts....well, you can always field them as....

Do you see how telling us 'we can always field them as Nurgle Marked Terminators' isn't quite the same thing? How getting fixed weapon layouts which we're likely to not even have modelled (thus making it impossible to even physrep existing units as the new unit for 99% of us) is not a positive but a ridiculous penalty?

That isn't actually an accurate analogy to what Death Guard would be going through if they lost access to normal terminator options in favor of the new guys. It would be like Dark Angels losing basic Deathwing squads entirely because they have Deathwing Knights, Blood Angels losing assault marines because they have death company, etc.

Death guard haven't lost anything though, they didntnexist previously. They had substitute rules to represent a force similar to the legion using nurgle marked terminators.

The only true death guard units have been plague zombies, plague marines and typhus. Everything else is a generic unit with a Mark, not death guard.

I'm sure that will come as something of a surprise to people who've been collecting Death Guard for over 20 years using the rules GW explicitly told them to use to collect Death Guard.

Anyone waiting for a fully fleshed out, multi pose multi options terminator kit will be sorely dissapointed.
Just like the death guard biker squads, havocs and just normal csm hoping to get ANY bonuses at all to their models.

I'm shocked rubrics had flamers, that was weird. And i dont think the lack of options had anything to do with fluff, it's just based on cheaper production.

Dudeface wrote:

Death guard haven't lost anything though, they didntnexist previously. They had substitute rules to represent a force similar to the legion using nurgle marked terminators.

The only true death guard units have been plague zombies, plague marines and typhus. Everything else is a generic unit with a Mark, not death guard.

Do I need to fish out the 3rd ed Index Astartes article and the 3.5 CSM Codex images again?

Do I need to remind you that back when Index Astartes first came out we were given a Death Guard list that told us which units to use and this continued into 3.5?

Do I need to remind you that this was around the same time that Black Templars and Salamanders gained their own identities? The same time as Imperial Fists and Iron Hands getting their own identites? Before Deathwatch was even a thing? Before the GK army even really existed as anything more than a single unit?

We've lost our Chosen/Veterans, Terminators and Havocs. We've lost the Terminators we've had since 2nd edition, who have been mentioned countlessly in the fluff and are referenced to on the opposite page to the crappy Index list.

'We've not lost anything'

Might I ask if you've lost your awareness of reality in general? What magical world do you live in where units we've been able to reliably field since 2nd edition, that were further reinforced in character in 3rd and 3.5 just didn't exist at all?

Are you really that oblivious?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:

I'm sure that will come as something of a surprise to people who've been collecting Death Guard for over 20 years using the rules GW explicitly told them to use to collect Death Guard.

Especially when skippy there realises that Typhus came about with the 3.5 CSM Codex and Plague Zombies weren't a Death Guard 'thing' until our shoddy 6th ed Codex. Previously Plague Zombies were a Lost and the Damned thing way back in 3.5 that also existed in the Renegades and Heretics list.

Yet Cult Terminators have existed in 2nd edition, 3rd edition and 3.5 and returned rather profusely with Traitor Legions.

But it's ok - Plague Marine Terminators aren't Death Guard. Not like every DG background article and snippet in 5 editions worth of books didn't mention them extensively. Not like their 30k counterparts can't field a rather impressive amount of Terminator units - having 2 unique Terminator units compared to everyone else's 1 at most, in addition to standard Legion Terminators. - oh, and also having a Terminator heavy background in 30k fluff too.

They clearly never existed guys.

Yonasu wrote:


I'm shocked rubrics had flamers, that was weird. And i dont think the lack of options had anything to do with fluff, it's just based on cheaper production.

Its for balance gameplay reasons, gives Tsons a useful option against hordes

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Death guard haven't lost anything though, they didntnexist previously. They had substitute rules to represent a force similar to the legion using nurgle marked terminators.

The only true death guard units have been plague zombies, plague marines and typhus. Everything else is a generic unit with a Mark, not death guard.

Do I need to fish out the 3rd ed Index Astartes article and the 3.5 CSM Codex images again?

Do I need to remind you that back when Index Astartes first came out we were given a Death Guard list that told us which units to use and this continued into 3.5?

Do I need to remind you that this was around the same time that Black Templars and Salamanders gained their own identities? The same time as Imperial Fists and Iron Hands getting their own identites? Before Deathwatch was even a thing? Before the GK army even really existed as anything more than a single unit?

We've lost our Chosen/Veterans, Terminators and Havocs. We've lost the Terminators we've had since 2nd edition, who have been mentioned countlessly in the fluff and are referenced to on the opposite page to the crappy Index list.

'We've not lost anything'

Might I ask if you've lost your awareness of reality in general? What magical world do you live in where units we've been able to reliably field since 2nd edition, that were further reinforced in character in 3rd and 3.5 just didn't exist at all?

Are you really that oblivious?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:

I'm sure that will come as something of a surprise to people who've been collecting Death Guard for over 20 years using the rules GW explicitly told them to use to collect Death Guard.

Especially when skippy there realises that Typhus came about with the 3.5 CSM Codex and Plague Zombies weren't a Death Guard 'thing' until our shoddy 6th ed Codex. Previously Plague Zombies were a Lost and the Damned thing way back in 3.5 that also existed in the Renegades and Heretics list.

Yet Cult Terminators have existed in 2nd edition, 3rd edition and 3.5 and returned rather profusely with Traitor Legions.

But it's ok - Plague Marine Terminators aren't Death Guard. Not like every DG background article and snippet in 5 editions worth of books didn't mention them extensively. Not like their 30k counterparts can't field a rather impressive amount of Terminator units - having 2 unique Terminator units compared to everyone else's 1 at most, in addition to standard Legion Terminators. - oh, and also having a Terminator heavy background in 30k fluff too.

They clearly never existed guys.

There are death guard terminators on the way, hence why they're not in the index list, that was obvious. More importantly plague marine terminators never existed, only terminators with the mark of nurgle.

But as someone who started in 3rd ed with the 3.5 book, yes those were to help you represent a legion forces within the limitations of the book. Fluff wise they have options lacking until the codex, but there have been as many plague marine havocs released/entries over the years as there have specific iron hands devastators.

You're currently in a state of rage over the fact you're going to get nice new unique entries, stuff that will make the other legion players feel bland, but you can't see beyond the possibility you might lose a combi bolter on a terminator.

Unless of course you have the book in hand, you have no way of knowing what units are or are not present in that codex. In which case I would question your grasp on the situation skippy.

Dudeface wrote:
but there have been as many plague marine havocs released/entries over the years as there have specific iron hands devastators.

So, would you like to eat your words now or later?

Death Guard - 1. Iron Hands - 0.

You're currently in a state of rage over the fact you're going to get nice new unique entries, stuff that will make the other legion players feel bland, but you can't see beyond the possibility you might lose a combi bolter on a terminator.

I'm pretty certain getting lumped into fixed layouts doesn't make other Legions who have access to Chaos Terminaors (including World Eaters and Emperor's Children btw) feel bland at all. If anything it makes us feel bland. And it writes off significant chunks of people's existing armies TO SELL THE NEW SHINY. That's not a good thing by the way.

Oooh, a nice new tank. That might have two variants. I'm sure that makes up for the loss of Vindicators, Maulerfiends, Forgefiends and Heldrakes. 2 tanks for the price of 4. And they also look like gak. FANTASTIC.

Unless of course you have the book in hand, you have no way of knowing what units are or are not present in that codex. In which case I would question your grasp on the situation skippy.

You are trying to White Knight your very, very hardest, aren't you?

You're ignoring the mention of the Terminators being fixed layout - and seem to believe this is parity for Chaos armies. Yeah, cause, it's not as though multiple unit types (Deathwing, Deathwing Knights) or flexible armament with unique weapon options too Chapter/Legion specific Terminators (Wolf Guard) have ever existed, eh?

It's not as though Parity would be to put us in a similar situation to the Imperial Equivalents (i.e. a slightly restricted list with a number of additional specific units/characters) such as DA, BA or SW, hmm?

No, no, clearly Parity should be stripping our options away and forcing us into incredibly niche fixed layout units.

For real though, how are you not getting this?

I'm gonna a leave it there, you clearly want all existing options plus all the new shinies and think that GW are making the wrong choices. Just accept some people are excited for change.

I would only advise to hold your anger in check regards what choices they have until you know what choices they have.

Dudeface wrote:
I'm gonna a leave it there, you clearly want all existing options plus all the new shinies and think that GW are making the wrong choices. Just accept some people are excited for change.

I would only advise to hold your anger in check regards what choices they have until you know what choices they have.

Well.. no we all know we are losing things. I can't imagine any of us would expect to get raptors or bikers. Even if bikers were a staple of nurgle lists last edition, they just don't work with DG thematically. So no one is complaining about that in particular, even though I'm sure most of us own a biker lord and a unit of bikers.

People don't mind losing things.... when it makes sense. Losing normal configuration terminators, vindicators, and havocs/chosen are all questionable to varying degrees. That's screwing us and our lore over just to sell new models. That's not reasonable or acceptable for most of us.

Anyways, OT: Anyone heard any new rumblings? Even questionable stuff? I really want new rumors!

Dudeface wrote:
I'm gonna a leave it there, you clearly want all existing options plus all the new shinies and think that GW are making the wrong choices. Just accept some people are excited for change.

I would only advise to hold your anger in check regards what choices they have until you know what choices they have.

OK, who had "When confronted by direct evidence contradicting one of their claims, poster withdraws from discussion without acknowledging fault and attempting last minute grab for moral high ground" in the Forum Argument Bingo?

I don't think any of us long term Death Guard players really asked for new stuff, nobody was clamouring for a grinning terminator with vaguely defined weapons or long range artillery on a new tank chassis (because really, who associates Death Guard with artillery? even if the Plaguecrawler IS a reinterpretation of the Contagion Plague Engine)

We just want our existing armies to not be invalidated. to not have to tear apart models we've constructed over several editions, to have a sense of continuity where options that have been consistently available to us for years and editions do not get summarily removed and replaced with units that we didn't need and didn't ask for.

Charax wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
I'm gonna a leave it there, you clearly want all existing options plus all the new shinies and think that GW are making the wrong choices. Just accept some people are excited for change.

I would only advise to hold your anger in check regards what choices they have until you know what choices they have.

OK, who had "When confronted by direct evidence contradicting one of their claims, poster withdraws from discussion without acknowledging fault and attempting last minute grab for moral high ground" in the Forum Argument Bingo?

I don't think any of us long term Death Guard players really asked for new stuff, nobody was clamouring for a grinning terminator with vaguely defined weapons or long range artillery on a new tank chassis (because really, who associates Death Guard with artillery? even if the Plaguecrawler IS a reinterpretation of the Contagion Plague Engine)

We just want our existing armies to not be invalidated. to not have to tear apart models we've constructed over several editions, to have a sense of continuity where options that have been consistently available to us for years and editions do not get summarily removed and replaced with units that we didn't need and didn't ask for.

Not so much more that there's little point arguing in that environment.

In honesty the entire thread just reads like people wanted the options out of the chaos book with a cursory disgustingly resilient thrown on top as an army rule and mortarion - call it done.

The problem is if you do that then death guard aren't unique, you give them new stuff on top, what does heretic astartes/general chaos offer instead?

People whined for best part of 4 editions to get legions books, it's finally happening. I play world eaters and I can't wait. If my daemon engines get parked or I can't take generic marines alongside zerkers, then I'll take those from a book where I can.

It's really just people wanting to continue using the models they already have and have been using as Death Guard for some time. Asking not to have broad swathes of their army invalidated isn't an unreasonable request. Saying that the sky s falling and they can't field those models at all is overreacting (as previously mentioned they can run a Nurgle army with Death Guard in it as a imperfect but viable substitute), but wanting their Death Guard army to stay as such is not. If it were just a few cuts it would be one thing, yet the loss as it stands is much more than that.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It's really just people wanting to continue using the models they already have and have been using as Death Guard for some time. Asking not to have broad swathes of their army invalidated isn't an unreasonable request. Saying that the sky s falling and they can't field those models at all is overreacting (as previously mentioned they can run a Nurgle army with Death Guard in it as a imperfect but viable substitute), but wanting their Death Guard army to stay as such is not. If it were just a few cuts it would be one thing, yet the loss as it stands is much more than that.

Thank you for a reasonable response. I can understand that fear entirely its not a fun concept for people.

You're exactly right - it is possible to represent all existing units with the present and assumingly future rules by fudging death guard with chaos marines.

Again my earlier point was not that they don't deserve options necessarily, but that in every edition so far they've only ever had chaos space marines with the mark of nurgle, the only thing lost in a practical sense is the death guard keyword at present.

Dudeface wrote:

The problem is if you do that then death guard aren't unique, you give them new stuff on top, what does heretic astartes/general chaos offer instead?

What does Codex Space Marines offer that Space Wolves, Dark Angels and Blood Angels don't?

This statement is a desperate attempt to justify huge cuts and you know it. You know it doesn't hold up. People still play Codex SM over the other chapters - so clearly the concern that having the Death Guard have like, 80% of the CSM list plus a few unique units of their own would make normal CSM useless is a false one.

Legion Traits will be the strong thing. Flexibility to take different cult units within the same detachment and get bonuses will be strong as well. It's not like normal CSM will be getting nothing - if anything they might be stronger due to their flexibility of choice.


And for the record - parts from those old metal Havocs are still being used today by GW in their studio army...and the newer stuff they've produced.

The converted Plague Marine squad on page 30 of the CSM Index uses them - the shoulderpads in particular. Mind you that entire squad is bizarre considering how GW seem to treat conversions as a sort of anathema these days....

Dudeface wrote:
Not so much more that there's little point arguing in that environment.

You mean the environment where you make an assertion without anything to back it up, and then have it thrown in your face with actual evidence that contradicts your views?

You know you're right. There is little point in arguing in such an environment, because why would someone continue to argue when they've been so conclusively proven wrong.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

The problem is if you do that then death guard aren't unique, you give them new stuff on top, what does heretic astartes/general chaos offer instead?

What does Codex Space Marines offer that Space Wolves, Dark Angels and Blood Angels don't?

This statement is a desperate attempt to justify huge cuts and you know it. You know it doesn't hold up. People still play Codex SM over the other chapters - so clearly the concern that having the Death Guard have like, 80% of the CSM list plus a few unique units of their own would make normal CSM useless is a false one.

Okay, so just to be clear, Normal marines have a garbage load of options that none of the other codex marines have, so this is argument may actually do the opposite of what you want.
My blood angels do not get;
Land Speeder Storms, Honor Guard, Generic Chapter Masters(at least in the past), Bikes as troops regardless of chapter, A myriad of formations, 2 flyers, 3 tanks, centurions, 2 dreadnoughts, cataphracti terminators and captains, legion of the damned....
Seriously.

Dudeface wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It's really just people wanting to continue using the models they already have and have been using as Death Guard for some time. Asking not to have broad swathes of their army invalidated isn't an unreasonable request. Saying that the sky s falling and they can't field those models at all is overreacting (as previously mentioned they can run a Nurgle army with Death Guard in it as a imperfect but viable substitute), but wanting their Death Guard army to stay as such is not. If it were just a few cuts it would be one thing, yet the loss as it stands is much more than that.

Thank you for a reasonable response. I can understand that fear entirely its not a fun concept for people.

You're exactly right - it is possible to represent all existing units with the present and assumingly future rules by fudging death guard with chaos marines.

Again my earlier point was not that they don't deserve options necessarily, but that in every edition so far they've only ever had chaos space marines with the mark of nurgle, the only thing lost in a practical sense is the death guard keyword at present.

I think right now we should try not to panic and adopt a wait and see approuch.

RULE #1 - BE POLITE.

Broken so many times in this thread.

Consider this the General In Thread Warning portion of the program.

From this point forward, if someone breaks it again, they'll be rather unhappy.

And not posting for a while.

A lot of people being really out of line over toy soldiers in this thread.

Get a freaking grip, people.


Really excited about the new Death guard. Seeing as I played a fluffy Death Guard army for the last 4 editions, this affects me very little. And if the rumors that there are a unique plague marine heavy weapons squad are true, I've only potentially lost daemon engines and nothing else.

EDIT: And just saw the mod post.


Anyone think we will get some version of cloud of flies/ shrouded for our version of chapter tactics?

 Starfarer wrote:



Anyone think we will get some version of cloud of flies/ shrouded for our version of chapter tactics?

This is exactly what I thought we'd get, until I saw the ravenguard rules. I figured -1 to hit at longer range fits perfectly for the cloud of flies. Unfortunately, I'm afraid they'll get cover now, regardless of them being in cover or not. I hope this isn't the case, though; Imperial fists would ignore our entire chapter tactic in that case.

What they could do is give death guard -1 to hit for units within 12" (or 18) including close combat. Reason being flies and other flying nurgly things harassing the attackers up close.

Milkshaker wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:



Anyone think we will get some version of cloud of flies/ shrouded for our version of chapter tactics?

This is exactly what I thought we'd get, until I saw the ravenguard rules. I figured -1 to hit at longer range fits perfectly for the cloud of flies. Unfortunately, I'm afraid they'll get cover now, regardless of them being in cover or not. I hope this isn't the case, though; Imperial fists would ignore our entire chapter tactic in that case.

What they could do is give death guard -1 to hit for units within 12" (or 18) including close combat. Reason being flies and other flying nurgly things harassing the attackers up close.

Really? That made me think it'd be more likely tbh. I don't think GW has an issue copy pasting similar CT for different armies. Consider every army is planned to have some version, from IG, to eldar, to admech. They will likely have repeats.

SilverAlien wrote:

Milkshaker wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:



Anyone think we will get some version of cloud of flies/ shrouded for our version of chapter tactics?

This is exactly what I thought we'd get, until I saw the ravenguard rules. I figured -1 to hit at longer range fits perfectly for the cloud of flies. Unfortunately, I'm afraid they'll get cover now, regardless of them being in cover or not. I hope this isn't the case, though; Imperial fists would ignore our entire chapter tactic in that case.

What they could do is give death guard -1 to hit for units within 12" (or 18) including close combat. Reason being flies and other flying nurgly things harassing the attackers up close.

Really? That made me think it'd be more likely tbh. I don't think GW has an issue copy pasting similar CT for different armies. Consider every army is planned to have some version, from IG, to eldar, to admech. They will likely have repeats.

I'd honestly be surprised if the Space Marine CT don't end up being the archetypes

Neronoxx wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:

Milkshaker wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:



Anyone think we will get some version of cloud of flies/ shrouded for our version of chapter tactics?

This is exactly what I thought we'd get, until I saw the ravenguard rules. I figured -1 to hit at longer range fits perfectly for the cloud of flies. Unfortunately, I'm afraid they'll get cover now, regardless of them being in cover or not. I hope this isn't the case, though; Imperial fists would ignore our entire chapter tactic in that case.

What they could do is give death guard -1 to hit for units within 12" (or 18) including close combat. Reason being flies and other flying nurgly things harassing the attackers up close.

Really? That made me think it'd be more likely tbh. I don't think GW has an issue copy pasting similar CT for different armies. Consider every army is planned to have some version, from IG, to eldar, to admech. They will likely have repeats.

I'd honestly be surprised if the Space Marine CT don't end up being the archetypes

Seeing as I think the Raven Guard one is one of the best, I hope that they will get that one

I think it's more likely then not the DG aren't actually getting "chapter tactics" per say, but instead it's gonna defact be disgustingly resliant on everything. (which means stuff like hellbrutes with it etc)
The people thinking they could ALSO get something like the RG tactics are living in a dream world, GW's not gonna give DG a -1 to hit them in addition to what is basicly a 5+ FNP

BrianDavion wrote:
I think it's more likely then not the DG aren't actually getting "chapter tactics" per say, but instead it's gonna defact be disgustingly resliant on everything. (which means stuff like hellbrutes with it etc)
The people thinking they could ALSO get something like the RG tactics are living in a dream world, GW's not gonna give DG a -1 to hit them in addition to what is basicly a 5+ FNP

Seeing the upgrades marines are getting in their Codex, I'm not sure why not