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angel of death 007 wrote:
The models are a lot better then the privateer press plastic models I have worked with.

If they weren't, it would be cause for alarm.

Eh, dunno. PP's plastics being worse than FFG's should probably be cause of alarm for PP, given how long they've been making them already...

 Albertorius wrote:
Eh, dunno. PP's plastics being worse than FFG's should probably be cause of alarm for PP, given how long they've been making them already...

They've largely abandoned the plastics. They're still out there simply because they haven't been replaced, but new stuff is pretty much exclusively resin/metal these days.

The experiment with the Boardgame/Restic/PVC plastic was short but painful
while some of the last models were not bad overall it was nearly a disaster (from a modelling point of view)

So FFG is doing better with their first minis than PP with their first plastics is good but not the best comparison

PS: Are there any hints what is planned after Veers/Solo?

 kodos wrote:
The experiment with the Boardgame/Restic/PVC plastic was short but painful
while some of the last models were not bad overall it was nearly a disaster (from a modelling point of view)

So FFG is doing better with their first minis than PP with their first plastics is good but not the best comparison

PS: Are there any hints what is planned after Veers/Solo?

The developers supposedly kind of hinted at scout troopers on foot, though don't ask me for proof of that. The 3rd imperial commander could be anyones guess. But they seem to announce new expansions during the middle-ish of every month so we'll know in a couple weeks. Some people have suggested Tarkin but I honestly don't think he would fit into this game setting very well.

Assembled a batch of the core Rebels last night, and in my opinion they’re the best pvc Minis I’ve ever seen. Are they full on GW styrene quality? No. Styrene still makes better Minis, but this is definitely a good gateway or entry to Minis games since it’s a huge name license that may attract new players to the hobby. Gots to assemble a second batch of core Rebels tonight.

As an aside, are people sticklers for needing the actual upgrade cards? I know locally the opinion is more of a whatever, just print off your own copies if you need more. Seems like it would be pretty easy to do that for anything outside big events run by actual FFG staff.

WYSIWYG is big question for now as there are no official rules if you need the original upgrade card, or the model or both
eg are the upgrade cards enough or need the model to be equipped with the upgrades too or vica versa

 Thargrim wrote:

Some people have suggested Tarkin but I honestly don't think he would fit into this game setting very well.

There are already Spaceship Troops so why not a Space Commander
But I agree that it is unlikely, same as the Emperor

 LunarSol wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Eh, dunno. PP's plastics being worse than FFG's should probably be cause of alarm for PP, given how long they've been making them already...

They've largely abandoned the plastics. They're still out there simply because they haven't been replaced, but new stuff is pretty much exclusively resin/metal these days.

Oh, that's good to know given the ones I've seen. How are the newest resin/metal ones? I must admit I've been veering off them for some time now.

 AduroT wrote:

As an aside, are people sticklers for needing the actual upgrade cards? I know locally the opinion is more of a whatever, just print off your own copies if you need more. Seems like it would be pretty easy to do that for anything outside big events run by actual FFG staff.

Not really, though at the moment there's not enough of them to really matter either way. I've played X-Wing without cards for ages despite owning them all. At some point I just got tired of managing them.

 AduroT wrote:
Assembled a batch of the core Rebels last night, and in my opinion they’re the best pvc Minis I’ve ever seen. Are they full on GW styrene quality? No. Styrene still makes better Minis, but this is definitely a good gateway or entry to Minis games since it’s a huge name license that may attract new players to the hobby.

My box is coming today, so I haven't seen them in person yet, but I will say that Runewars has a noticeable change in quality from the core box to the later expansions (like the latari or uthuk army expansions). The plastic isn't as bendy and seems to keep details better. Spears definitely still droop though.

I only had to re-set one Rebel gun with hot water. otherwise they are very nice quality. I appreciate that the minis come bagged with pieces already separated. Saves a vast amount of time in comparison to a sprue.

Hairdryer works just as well if you keep one at your hobby station for painting (and you really should). Out of 2 cores I've only had to fix one stormtrooper who's legs were a bit too close together. Hit it with a hairdryer for 15 seconds and it was all set to go. I'm still assembling the second rebel models though, I was waiting for some aftermarket resin alien heads to come in which they just did yesterday

Set two of Core stuff assembled just as nicely as the first, though had some mispack issues. Didn’t get the little handlebar for the AT-RT, and the guy who got the Imperials says he got an extra bag of one of the Stormtrooper grunt poses instead of the rocket launcher guys. It sounds like mispacks are fairly frequent, which would be the downside to everything being desprued and separated before packing I imagine.

Also got my first game in today. Skipped the demo rules and went straight to the 800pt level. Learned some stuff, made some mistakes, opponent’s defense dice were pretty hot, got my butt kicked, had a bunch of fun. Playing again on Sunday I believe after a local Shadespire tournament.

Just got mine yesterday and started putting together last night. Only problem I'm having is I can't quite make out how to put the fins on the front of the speeders, my old, tired eyes just can't make out the proper detail.

The plastic figures are overall pretty good. I wouldn't listen to any naysayer that hasn't held one - it's just sour grapes.

Since other people are sharing their opinions, thought I'd share mine. Got it earlier this week, did assembly and played one game with it so far.

The models are later Runewars quality, which means they have flash, but fit together fine (early RW stuff required a lot of cutting off bits). No mispacks either, thank goodness. I didn't hate the models as much as I expected to, design-wise, which I attribute to using poor paintjobs on the FFG website. They look a lot nicer in person, unpainted, than they do in the glamour shots. My main complaint is that I had to wash all the figures first - you could feel the greasy residue on the bases, and I'd read a lot of reports of paint/glue not sticking. The assembly instructions for the speeder bikes was done at a poor angle and it isn't obvious where a few pieces go (even the glamor shots on the FFG website don't help), but I figured it out eventually. On the whole, I'd give the models a decent score but I didn't enjoy assembling them.

Playing the game did not leave me impressed. I think just a core box robs you of so many things that would be in the full experience (the command cards are basically unimportant when you only have 4 units - just put orders on your two unique units and all that's left are interchangeable stormtroopers, enough dice to play, variety in units and customization). The learn to play guide skips a lot of details that are only found in the PDF-only rules reference (I play miniature games to get away from computer screens). With RuneWars, I felt like the core box was representative of the game, and I wanted more because I liked the game and wanted bigger battles and to customize my trays. With Legion, I felt like I got half a game - one which only half impressed me - and I now I have to decide if I want to invest another $75 (at least) to get a second set (which I wouldn't look forward to assembling).

There were things I did like, such as the command card system. It gives a bit of a bluffing to initiative, gives commanders a unique feel, and with the random activation, can make a tactical impact. Despite making it more complicated, I like that cover and dodges don't cancel critical hits. I had a unit of two guys firing at another unit behind a barricade. Under normal circumstances, the barricade would cancel any potential damage I do (I can do 2, heavy cover cancels 2), but with criticals, I managed to sneak a shot past. Otherwise, it would've been a stalemate where the first one who left cover would lose. While I dislike the measuring stick, the movement tools turned out to be a non-event, and I guess did their job to make sure that vehicles weren't just large people and that facing mattered (especially with compulsory moves). I liked only measuring form the leader and just teleporting the rest of the unit into cohesion. That speeds up the game a lot, I think.

I'm not blown away. I see a hint of potential, but I really don't have any desire to play a starter game ever again. I'm not sure I want to invest further in the game either, so either my core set just became worthless or it became a down payment. As a game, I'm not sure what to think, but as a starter box, I think FFG screwed up. And what the hell with the dice? Units have a minimum of 4 models in it, yet only 3 dice?

 Sqorgar wrote:
...And what the hell with the dice? Units have a minimum of 4 models in it, yet only 3 dice?

That's an FFG tradition. You either buy a 2nd starter or one of their $10 plus (depending on the game) extra dice packs.
Or you write down or remember the results of the first roll and then roll enough dice again to make up the difference.

I'm well familiar with FFG's cheaping out on dice, but it was never this bad before. There was rarely enough for two players, but Legion doesn't even have enough for ONE player. Combined with not even printing the rules reference (which is required to play a full game), I feel like FFG is starting to cut too many corners with Legion. It's gone from irritating to offensive.

Meanwhile... almost everyone has bought over $40 in dice within the last year. Some of us purchased vanity dice that look interesting but are actually harder to read, or less random, than normal vanilla dice.

And a few of you purchased those specialist games dice too.

Yeah, it sucks, yes, it's getting more money out of you, but this dice based argument is tired and old.

The dice argument is pretty valid when you reach the point in turn 1 of the intro game and realise you need five dice but have three fir a squad to shoot, and the rules are written in such a way that you obviously need the dice. If it used regular d6 then no argument, but it uses custom, limited supply, dice. Half the units in the box need the extra dice just in the demo to attack. That's before you get to defence....

Say what you like about GW but as a starter box this is woeful in comparison, leaving aside the lack of a game legal force in the box - should have had greater variety in trooper unit sizes.

FFG is no stranger to not including enough dice in their core sets.

The X-Wing starter also needed at least one or two more of each colour IIRC, it's been years since I last played, but it annoyed me when I got the starter that we didn't have enough dice.

The core set is made to be bought twice
same as it was for X-WING

You get 2 Boxes exchange units with your opponent and have enough gaming material

1 Box is just to get into it and not a full game

 kodos wrote:
The core set is made to be bought twice
same as it was for X-WING

You get 2 Boxes exchange units with your opponent and have enough gaming material

1 Box is just to get into it and not a full game

So... get 4 boxes' worth of minis of one faction? (because otherwise you won't be getting enough dice to play with unless you always play together) Kinda seems overkill. Now that I got my complimentary box, though, I'll probably buy another one to get enough for two players. Plus, I kinda dig the game, and I have novice wargame players to teach.

 Vertrucio wrote:
Yeah, it sucks, yes, it's getting more money out of you, but this dice based argument is tired and old.

The argument isn't old when literally the first roll you make in the game will come up short of dice. This isn't a "it would've been nice if I didn't have to share dice" deal. You physically can not play the game with the amount of dice included. BatteLore 2e had too few dice, but situations where you came up short were less common. In Legion, it is every roll - and you really need the dice because many of the rules change the dice (rerolls, converting one symbol to another, cancelling symbols). And they didn't even print half the rulebook, not to mention that completely worthless box insert.

To be clear, I generally don't have a problem with FFG's "double up on cores" philosophy. I find it mildly irritating, especially when there is waste (like Arkham Horror LCG), but I've always felt like one core box was enough to accurately judge the game, such that the second core contributed to my experience rather than completing it.

Legion's box, as a starter product, I think joins the ranks of Wrath of Kings, X-Wing, Malifaux, and The Walking Dead's solo box where the starter boxes do an extremely poor job of being a good introduction to the game. I think 40k's First Strike box does more with less, and I think the gold standard for starter boxes is Infinity's Operation: Icestorm (if there's a better one out there, let me know).

 Vertrucio wrote:


Yeah, it sucks, yes, it's getting more money out of you, but this dice based argument is tired and old.

Cant even come close to try to understand this. You are completely wrong here.Besides the other 100 reasons this game will be short lived and terrible, its just being cheap and lazy. Its their usual MO, and for some reason this decided to make this one the worst for their biggest IP. 2 Core sets and you still need to share dice. They wanted to hit the 90$ mark for some reason to make it appealing, but it would have been better to make it 100$ and add in the 5 extra dice.

str00dles1 wrote:

 Vertrucio wrote:


Yeah, it sucks, yes, it's getting more money out of you, but this dice based argument is tired and old.

Cant even come close to try to understand this. You are completely wrong here.Besides the other 100 reasons this game will be short lived and terrible, its just being cheap and lazy. Its their usual MO, and for some reason this decided to make this one the worst for their biggest IP. 2 Core sets and you still need to share dice. They wanted to hit the 90$ mark for some reason to make it appealing, but it would have been better to make it 100$ and add in the 5 extra dice.

lol... "the other 100 reasons this game will be short lived and terrible"

It's Star Wars. It has decent models and a tight rule set. Initial reports are that it's fun to play. It's significantly cheaper than the main competitor's offerings. It's definitely not going to be "short lived and terrible". You sound like a GW diehard who automatically hates anything non-GW. 40k can be fun. So can tons of other games.

The core box is $90. If you want to double the dice, buy the dice pack and just pretend like the core box was $105, instead... which seems to be what you want. Also, to be clear... a dice pack is 15 dice and not 5.

 Kriswall wrote:
lol... "the other 100 reasons this game will be short lived and terrible"

It's Star Wars. It has decent models and a tight rule set. Initial reports are that it's fun to play. It's significantly cheaper than the main competitor's offerings. It's definitely not going to be "short lived and terrible". You sound like a GW diehard who automatically hates anything non-GW. 40k can be fun. So can tons of other games.

I don't think you have to be a GW diehard to think the game won't have legs. For one thing, look at FFG's past history. They outright abandoned many great game systems (including several miniatures games), and even their best, most successful game series (like Imperial Assault) only last a few years. If FFG doesn't feel like Legion is making money, they'll drop it like a hat, Star Wars or otherwise, and they won't ever tell you that they've done it. If you go more than 3 months without an update, just assume FFG killed the line. Honestly, as much as I like FFG games, I think they are their own worst enemy when it comes to selling lifestyle games.

I wouldn't describe Legion as significantly cheaper either, since you will be paying a minimum of $150 to get started. Apparently, an 800 pt game is two core sets + a vehicle (snowspeeder or AT-ST), so split two cores ($45 + $45) + AT-ST ($40) + dice pack ($10). That's cheaper than GW stuff, but I think GW games are still fun at smaller point levels. Age of Sigmar with a few units is still fun. Legion with few units undermines Legion's only unique gameplay selling point, the command system. Also, $150 isn't cheap compared to other non-GW games, like Infinity or Malifaux. You also get a lot less than two cores of Runewars will get you (Legion's 66 minis vs Runewars' 120+)

It does have Star Wars, and that's not nothing, but with Disney doing everything in its power to kill the brand, I wonder how much longer being Star Wars will mean something? Not to mention that the Star Wars game market is oversaturated in ways that make even Cthulhu jealous. What does Legion bring that you can't get from Imperial Assault, Armada, X-Wing, Rebellion, Star Wars: The Card Game, their RPG, or Destiny - or for that matter, what does it do that you couldn't get from WotC's SW Miniatures, the WEG SW Miniature Battle, or Decipher's CCG?

Hopefully a lot. We'll have to wait an see. But it's entirely reasonable to be wary here.

The core box is $90. If you want to double the dice, buy the dice pack and just pretend like the core box was $105, instead... which seems to be what you want. Also, to be clear... a dice pack is 15 dice and not 5.

And then buy another $90 core set, with duplicate cards, figures, and tokens you don't need, because you still don't have a game with only one.

Locally, this game is rotting on the shelves...

BOTH of my buddies at the shops are worried that they made a bad investment in picking this up. Two different towns, two different shops. The Star Wars IP is toxic and people pretty much STOPPED playing anything Star Wars related.

We were talking all sorts of mess about it when we took a look at the rules, then the figures... THEN the dice. To that guy that automatically assumes that you are going to buy TWO games.... No. The game is meh.

The "Move and shoot constructible whippy stick is a joke. The movement stick is unusable, and whoever designed these rules did it on the back of a napkin at the local strip club when they had a few too many drinks.

The "Units" are supposed to move on the whole, and are on par with meat shields, who do not move in a normal logical fashion. The figures themselves are overly complicated, and pedestrian.

6 siders, and some D 20's, a tape measure, and get rid of that stupid attaching crap on the bases and that idiot maneuver shooting stick. As a STart, then go back and give these rules to an Editor, and playtest the game.

Did I mention that it is filling the shelf, and no one wants it?

Yeah, This one will be in the sale pile in about a month...

 Sqorgar wrote:

I wouldn't describe Legion as significantly cheaper either

We have already compared it, if take on the cheapest possible way to enter 40k, Legion is still 100€ cheaper.

Compared to other games, ~200€ is the level for a complete army or whatever and Legion fits in there the same way as X-Wing

And then buy another $90 core set, with duplicate cards, figures, and tokens you don't need, because you still don't have a game with only one.

or just get the expensions instead

 Grot 6 wrote:
Locally, this game is rotting on the shelves...

BOTH of my buddies at the shops are worried that they made a bad investment in picking this up. Two different towns, two different shops. The Star Wars IP is toxic

Anyway, you've got the expensive bit. The good news is that if you want to play a Star Wars game, sci fi skirmish rules are dead cheap.

 Grot 6 wrote:
Locally, this game is rotting on the shelves...

BOTH of my buddies at the shops are worried that they made a bad investment in picking this up. Two different towns, two different shops. The Star Wars IP is toxic and people pretty much STOPPED playing anything Star Wars related.

We were talking all sorts of mess about it when we took a look at the rules, then the figures... THEN the dice. To that guy that automatically assumes that you are going to buy TWO games.... No. The game is meh.

The "Move and shoot constructible whippy stick is a joke. The movement stick is unusable, and whoever designed these rules did it on the back of a napkin at the local strip club when they had a few too many drinks.

The "Units" are supposed to move on the whole, and are on par with meat shields, who do not move in a normal logical fashion. The figures themselves are overly complicated, and pedestrian.

6 siders, and some D 20's, a tape measure, and get rid of that stupid attaching crap on the bases and that idiot maneuver shooting stick. As a STart, then go back and give these rules to an Editor, and playtest the game.

Did I mention that it is filling the shelf, and no one wants it?

Yeah, This one will be in the sale pile in about a month...

Interesting as my LGS invested in a full shelf, they have 4 for GW stuff, and SW legion shelf looks like a Walmart after a zombie apocalypse.

On the arguement of GW 40k vs Legion is cost, there is no comparison. GW is a crap ton more expensive even if you go the cheapest routes possible to build a typical entry level tournament army. Between rule book a codex and possibly a chapter approved you are already up there in money, and that is before adding it models or any other add ons. Yes you can get some SC sets for GW which are nice but they don't come with everything you need to field them and are far from what you need for an army.