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Worthless is strong but not sure if it's enough for those playing in cutthroat circles.

There is definitely a lot of good stuff in PA which makes us a lot stronger, just no marine strong.

So if worthless = not marine, then yes, BoB was worthless.

On one hand i say "Yay! Powercreep avoided!" on the other though i now that i will have to face marines like this for at lest 3 months...

Niiru wrote:
Oh, so is the consensus now that the entirety of PA for tyranids is worthless?

That wasn't even the best part of PA. Yeah it's annoying that it's gone but no, not even close, you just put an adaptation on something else now

I think the physiology still have uses, it certainly nerfs a few. I really think we should have got 1 per detachment and then the strat to buy a 4th and the option to give up the WLT for a 5th. I think they will be best on larger units.

Anything compared to SM, but SM, is gak. Tyranid are definitely in dire need of an hand, but nothing should be ever again at SM levels. That is how you break a game

So, I had a rather interesting game yesterday against my friend's Raven Guard. I had originally been planning on playing with one of our local Daemon players that tends to bring more mild/narrative-driven lists, so I had brought a Kronos Shadowbrink-style gunline with 3x Tervigons, 90x Termagants, 2x Exocrines, 3x Biovores, 6x Hive Guard, a Malceptor, and a unit of shooty warriors with me. They didn't show up this week, so I fought my friend instead. He brought his standard sniper and infiltrator-heavy Raven Guard list (infiltrators, some scouts, eliminators, character support, Shrike, Reavers, Hellblasters, Storm Raven, Venerable Dread).

To cut to the chase, the Encephalic Diffusion stratagem for the Malceptor is actually really solid and the game actually ended up fairly close despite my bringing a list that wasn't intended to fight Marines. Bolt weapons needing 4's to wound replenishing Termagants and 5's to wound my Warriors (which took the Enhanced Resilience Adaptive Physiology) was a huge improvement, while overcharged Plasma needing 5's to wound the T8 monsters was exceptionally nice to have and saved one Exocrine that otherwise should have been reduced to ash. I ended the game having only lost two Tervigons, two units of Termagants (one on the first turn that was out of range of the Malceptor, the second after a couple rounds with tying up Shrike and Reavers), an Exocrine, and the Malceptor on the last turn. I had a 2 point lead in victory points when we called it.

My friend's been theorycrafting a Maleceptor-based list using 18 Tyranid Warriors. Apparently buffed up warriors in the current meta have enough durability to function kinda like daemons/TSons plaguebearers in prior metas.

Should be interesting to see people running more of these buffed up troops alongside tyranid gunlines.

I just played my Behemoth against World Eaters and, whoa Nelly, did I bounce off

CA19 Scorched Earth mission, longways deployment

Tyranid Prime
Neurothrope: Resonance Barb, Paroxysm, Catalyst, Hunger
30 Hormagaunts
6 Warriors: Spitters, Stranglers, Claws
3 Rippers

OOE
Acid maw Dakkafex
Rupture Tfex
Biovore

Terminator Lord, Melta, Brass Collar (DTW, causes PotW)
Juggerlord
10 Zerks
10 Zerks
5 Zerks
5 Red Butchers (Berzerker Terminators), power fists galore
Helbrute - fists, Flamers

20 Bloodletters

Turn one, I get charged by Berzerkers rolling a 12, Warriors punched to death by champ and an objective killed

Rupture fails to kill Helbrute, Hormagaunts Brute Force it and eat half the Bloddletters

OOE doesn’t do enough to kill a Zerk squad, revenge kills Jugger Lord in Chaos turn after Butchers charge on a 10

Her home guard Zerks move up to drive the horms off the centre objectives

Rupture performs poorly against Butchers twice, leaving them in charge distance of Neurothrope. Rippers aren’t going to harvest enough from her unprotected DZ to turn around her 12-3 lead, so I concede at T4

I love Rupturefex but feel like I might get more out of an Exocrine these days, especially if I have Biovores to put down long range pressure (anyone done the numbers on damage efficiency vs Rupturefex?)

Resonance Barb
PSYKER model only. A model with this Relic can attempt to manifest one additional psychic power in your Psychic phase and attempt to deny one additional psychic power in your opponent’s Psychic phase. In addition, when a Psychic test is taken for a model with this Relic, add 1 to the total

You still know only one power + smite.

What is the purpose of Carnifexes? Rhinos are tougher than them FFS.

And what is the purpose of Hive Tyrants? Every time I've put one down on the table it has no wounds by the end of my opponent's next turn.

Rhino's don't get 24x S6 shots.

Flyrants, I dunno. I guess their purpose is if you want to put your synapse, mobility, psychic spells and dakka all in the same basket, so that when it gets blown off the table you lose everything at once?

Honestly they are probably best used for redundant wounds and drawing fire, which the 4++ lets them do... semi-efficiently at least.

Walkrants are quite decent when equipped as gunboats.

A walkrant with the right equip can almost one round a ravager (8,6 wounds). For a 172 point model that is protected by a 4++, casts 2 powers, does not degrade in BS until the last 3 wounds, and has double range synapse, that is not so bad. It's under the 200 point mark, so if the opponent focuses him down you are not so sad about it.

Asking for a friend: what do Tyranids have that's good against vehicles?

I have a friend with an army with around 30 Genestealers, 60 Termagants, 30 Hormagants, 10 Warriors, Broodlord, Prime, Trygon, Tervigon, and a Hive Tyrant (At least, that's what I remember). I completely smashed him with my Guard army last game, and primarily with my Tanks, so was wondering what he should look into getting to counter my tanks and any Space Marines vehicles.

Hiveguard, exocrines, OOE, and sometimes we dont kill we just wrap and make them useless

 lindsay40k wrote:

I love Rupturefex but feel like I might get more out of an Exocrine these days, especially if I have Biovores to put down long range pressure (anyone done the numbers on damage efficiency vs Rupturefex?)

Math says the Exocrine is better against anything less than T8, by virtue of having better accuracy and a larger dice pool. Against T8+ the Rupture Cannon pulls a bit ahead due to an easier time wounding compensating for the accuracy and volume of fire difference.

In the current environment, you are probably better served with the Exocrine unless you see a lot of Repulsors or similar heavy vehicles.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What is the purpose of Carnifexes? Rhinos are tougher than them FFS.

The Carnifex is the only monster in the codex that doesn't degrade and is one of a handful that can be tailored to perform different roles depending on load-out. It is also the cheapest (provided you don't go too crazy on gear) which lends well towards threat saturation. Carnifexes are also mostly self-sufficient apart from synapse. They don't really need stratagems to do their job and they can bring their own spore clouds.

Competitively, they are one of the better ranged platforms in the army due to Enhanced Senses and relatively high volume of fire weaponry. The main issue for most variants is that the majority of their guns have low-to-middling AP, which isn't so great in a marine-dominated metagame.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

And what is the purpose of Hive Tyrants? Every time I've put one down on the table it has no wounds by the end of my opponent's next turn.

"Jack of all trades, master of none" basically. There is a reason they were considered good when spammed but aren't super competitive in smaller numbers. Tyrants can do everything (move, psychic, shoot, assault) reasonably well but they pay a premium for the ability to do so. The main issue is as you said, they are a huge target for the opponent. In a spam list it wasn't as large a concern since each Tyrant provided threat saturation for the others, but alone there isn't really any other Tyranid model that can compare in terms of target priority.

I do still have a soft spot for my walking Tyrant. He still sees play from time to time as a gunline overseer with Kronos or Jormungandr. He doesn't care about snipers as much as the Prime or Malanthrope and brings a more appropriate backfield weapon with the Stranglethorn or HVC.

I agree with what Strat said just wanted to point out, Carnifexes are pretty self sufficient even concerning Synapse, it will help but Instinctive Behavior still doesn't bother them a whole lot since they are gunning for the screens anyway

More of a rule question I guess but anyway the stratagem overrun. Can you use it when you are still in combat with something and even more crucially can you use it to get out of combat with the enemy?

Today when I faced tyranids we weren't sure on that but he opted in the end not leave combat but if he could leave that could be pretty nasty. Basically stealers charged into IG squad(couldn't reach anything else rolling just 6" for charge though he tagged several more units as charge targets). My knight heroic intervened. Unsurprisingly IG soldiers died so he wondered could he avoid gallant attacks with the stratagem but ended up staying in combat in the end. I was totally ??? on that one. Gut feeling says you can't leave combat though rest could move with it.

Well he got rewarded in the end hitting something like 12 times and rolling 6 6's so he got piled of wounds which helped him to later bring gallant down. Though he got 2 big bugs(big one that becomes better after killing infantry in cc and 12 battle cannon shot that tried to kill in charge and did get down to 4 wounds) and unit of gaunts before succuming to rupture cannon(and more importantly it's heavy bolter kind shots that caused whopping 3 wounds despite knight's 2+ save...So much for that relic!)

Those T8 shooty bugs always in cover were giving me quite a bit of grief :-/

The stratagem specifics you can't be within 3" of another unit for it to work. So if you're in combat, it doesn't work. I can't understand how there is any question involved here, did you just not bother reading the rule or am I completely misunderstanding this question or something?

They probably just read about the strat from others and wanted to try it.


Overrun is literally just that; you overrunning your opponents lines to strike deeper.

Its meant to show a swarm of tyranids killing the front line defenders and pouring past them in an endless wave.


In game, if you destroy the units you have charged, you then get an additional move with the unit you were fighting with. If combed with something like kraken genestealers you have tremendous potential.

Charge everything within 12", but only move up and attack the screens. Mulch them to bits. Overrun to move up even more and into a better position 2-3" away from everything else you charged, then fight again for 3 CP and mulch some more.


It rarely works out in such a perfect manor, but you could also use the strat to run away into a safer position instead of fighting twice.

Ingore Tneva82. He´s just a troll. Nobody listen to him in ork forum nomore.

 Eihnlazer wrote:


Charge everything within 12", but only move up and attack the screens. Mulch them to bits. Overrun to move up even more and into a better position 2-3" away from everything else you charged, then fight again for 3 CP and mulch some more.


It rarely works out in such a perfect manor, but you could also use the strat to run away into a safer position instead of fighting twice.

Here it didn't work as i had positioned knight close enough if he attacks screen hard to avoid the heroic intervene helped by somewhat low roll on charge that even after double move struggled to reach since he had well over 30" to cross

Cost tons of wounds on the knight though which proved fatal for the knight

A3d how was thbre question? That's what you get when oppoeent has no codex and relies on battlescribe.

My Behemoth got butchered by World Eaters last week

Most because she kept rolling 10-12 on her own rerolled charges, but also because Rupturefex whiffed most of its work

I’ve posted above that I’m looking at switching it for an Exocrine, especially in sub-1500pt games

It’s been remarked that it outperforms exact against T8. How do Biovores and rupturefexen compare, points per damage, against hard targets?

 lindsay40k wrote:
My Behemoth got butchered by World Eaters last week

Most because she kept rolling 10-12 on her own rerolled charges, but also because Rupturefex whiffed most of its work

I’ve posted above that I’m looking at switching it for an Exocrine, especially in sub-1500pt games

It’s been remarked that it outperforms exact against T8. How do Biovores and rupturefexen compare, points per damage, against hard targets?

So you get about 5 biovore per rupturefex. Average hit is 1mw so 2.5 mw plus 2.5 floating mines. Rupture cannon stationary causes 2 wounds vs t8 at -3. Assuming imperial knight they can have 4++ so 3.5 damage. 5++ 4.666 damage. No inv save 5.8333.

Biovore also leaves mnes around, shoots out of los and is easy to hide.dies easily to indirect fire weapons like thundercannon.

Shooting gunline 'Nid beasts:

Kronos or Jormungandr?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Shooting gunline 'Nid beasts:

Kronos or Jormungandr?

I've had a lot of success with Jormu shooty nids, as I have found it hard to claim the reroll 1s on most nids barring rupturefexs, and the extra pip of armour can make all the difference in the attrition game combined with venomthropes.

Ooor, take a Kronos detatch and a Jorman detatch, one for shooting, one for camping on objectives.

a month ago I'd have said Jorm hands down, these days Kronos is a real contendor with symbiostorm and Exocrine combo. I think both are viable. Malanthrope bubble also granting ignoring all cover is a nice buff from Jorm too.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Shooting gunline 'Nid beasts:

Kronos or Jormungandr?

if playing for fun then choose the paint scheme you would rather paint.

If playing competitively then choose Kronos. The reason why is Iron Warriors + Auspex Scan completely negate any Jormungandr advantages and you will see IW at tournaments in droves for the foreseeable future as its now a looooooong wait to Chapter Approved 2020 or 9th edition before a potential nerf (if any).

Got around to reading the Nid rules in battle for baal.

Is it me or are 90% of them total trash? And I do mean trash.
Out of two pages of stratagems, 2 pages of physiologies and a page of artifacts I can pick maybe 5 that are decent or semi competitive.

The rest I was sort of agog at. Considering what SMs and Eldar got its a bit depressing =/

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Shooting gunline 'Nid beasts:

Kronos or Jormungandr?

Depends on what your shooting beasts are. Kronos is best for mostly-static fire support with good range (Hive Guard, Biovores, Exocrine, Rupture Cannon Tyrannofex, Biocannon Carnifex/Tyrant) since you loose the perk when you move. If you have a lot of short-range shooters (Dakkafex/DakkaTyrant, Termagants, Thornback, Shockguard, Warriors, Sporocyst with Deathspitters, Tyrannofex with Acid Spray/Fleshborer Hive) Jormungandr will generally do better since units can still move into firing range and still benefit from the trait. The added durability is also nice for these units, since they have to expose themselves to more fire than their long ranged counterparts.

Another consideration is whether you want the entire army to use a single adaptation or not. Jormungandr is generally best off running as a mono-Hive Fleet for threat saturation and being able to use their deepstrike shenanigans to the fullest, while Kronos is happy to mix in with other fleets that can do stuff for your melee assets. Last consideration is how much of your army has fly. Jormungandr does more-or-less nothing for flyers while Kronos provides its adaptation ability and can use flying creatures as speedy vectors for the Deepest Shadow.

I suppose in short, if you want to dominate the midfield Jormungandr is appealing, while a more traditional sit-back-and-shoot gunline is Kronos' specialty.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Shooting gunline 'Nid beasts:

Kronos or Jormungandr?

Both are good....I prefer Kronos...