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2018/04/16 20:00:18
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
killerpenguin wrote: I'm so bummed out right now. I'm gonna have to change up my list and play style completely. No round 1 DS, thats some BS, if you know what i mean.
"oh hi IG, I got first turn? Yea, I'll come in next round, have fun shooting at whatever I have on the board this round, there'll be more next round. Have fun!"
The 50% power level on the table is going to hurt more than the turn 1 deployment zone.
Both is gonna hurt like crazy. We are gonna struggle against gunlines. If we didn't struggle before, we are really gonna feel it now.
How do they justify nerfing alpha strike like this?
Nerfing alpha strike was sorely needed, games cannot be decided turn 1!
If they managed to move the main action to turn 2, then this game just got incredibly better, time will tell if the nerfs they made to the specific gunlines will be enough to not make them rule the meta.
2018/04/16 20:05:58
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
killerpenguin wrote: I'm so bummed out right now. I'm gonna have to change up my list and play style completely. No round 1 DS, thats some BS, if you know what i mean.
"oh hi IG, I got first turn? Yea, I'll come in next round, have fun shooting at whatever I have on the board this round, there'll be more next round. Have fun!"
The 50% power level on the table is going to hurt more than the turn 1 deployment zone.
Both is gonna hurt like crazy. We are gonna struggle against gunlines. If we didn't struggle before, we are really gonna feel it now.
How do they justify nerfing alpha strike like this?
Nerfing alpha strike was sorely needed, games cannot be decided turn 1!
If they managed to move the main action to turn 2, then this game just got incredibly better, time will tell if the nerfs they made to the specific gunlines will be enough to not make them rule the meta.
Someone in a different thread said that they made comments to the effect that this was intended to nerf plasma spam alpha strikes. Not exactly sure why they thought that was needed, or how it impacts the handful of lists that use drop plasma, but GW gonna GW.
2018/04/16 20:15:11
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Wilson wrote: Big nerf to swarmlord;- you can no longer move again after deepstriking using the hive commander ability. Main rulebook FAQ.
yeah. Basically we are no longer a DS army. Jorm is done.
Flyrant DS is done
Swarmy Slingshotty a DS unit is done
Biovore spore mine "spam" is hurt pt increaes to 50
Flyrants point increase to 170 (0-3 units; im personally ok with this)
In other news... we did get 1 good change. Paroxysm does beat out Counter Offensive.
EDIT: Whats crazy is the Necrons Night Scythe and Monolith can use Invasion Beams (DS) there units in at the BEGINNING Of the movement phase and still move their guys. They have 1 maybe 2 units that benefit from an assault style list, meanwhile, the assault style list of nids have just turned into cannon fodder. Anything not wearing power armor must DIE DIE DIE!
EDIT 2: Just saw this
Q: Can such a unit move or Advance for any other reason
e.g. because of an ability such as The Swarmlord’s Hive
Commander ability, or because of a psychic power such as
Warptime from the Dark Hereticus discipline, or because
of a Stratagem like Metabolic Overdrive from Codex:
Tyranids, etc.? A: No."
I should have kept reading welp. We cant even overdrive anymore.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/16 20:24:08
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
Well...too soon to tell, but we might just be the best Beta strikers in the game. Jormangandr might become the new contender for "best" Hive Fleet. I already build around one Brigade, so most of this seems to not hit me. Did I see that "Brotherhood of Psychers" ignores the Smite nurf...I need to check how my beloved Zoeies are written up.....
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2018/04/16 23:05:15
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
The competitiveness of the whole game has gone down considerably, we are not the only ones who lost something, nor we are the ones who were more hurt by this FAQ.
Sure, our top stuff is gone, but also the top stuff of all other factions is gone, so before losing ourselves in negativity, we should try to assess the new global situation.
We could easily come on top after all this, simply because our top builds were just the lid that covered a codex full of viable builds that were just a little bit worse. Flyrants and mega alpha strikes were not a clutch for us.
Compare that to what other factions have lost:
- Eldars? Point increases to all psy supports, point increases on DA, nerf to WoP, nerf to Quicken, nerf to fire and fade...
- Blood angels? RIP
. Poxwalker farms? RIP
- Tzangor/bloodletter bombs? RIP
- Scion plasma? RIP
- Dark talon spam? RIP
- Mortar spam? RIP
. PB crawler spam? RIP
- Oblits? Coming turn 2
- And so on and so on...
The game is so different now that saying "We suck because we lost our top builds" is meaningless.
The 2 only possible troubles come from long range castles, which right now are 2 factions:
- AM - T'au
We are a counter to both of these, simply because they are BS4+ factions, and we can provide plenty of hit penalties.
In addition, AM has lost what made the lists possible, which is the mobile element: Scion or BA complement. If they want to go the gunline route, they will have to do it the hard way, which is zero mobility.
T'au did also lose the drone alpha strike.
Let's play it out guys, this is a new world.
2018/04/17 06:51:50
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
The competitiveness of the whole game has gone down considerably, we are not the only ones who lost something, nor we are the ones who were more hurt by this FAQ.
Sure, our top stuff is gone, but also the top stuff of all other factions is gone, so before losing ourselves in negativity, we should try to assess the new global situation.
We could easily come on top after all this, simply because our top builds were just the lid that covered a codex full of viable builds that were just a little bit worse. Flyrants and mega alpha strikes were not a clutch for us.
Compare that to what other factions have lost:
- Eldars? Point increases to all psy supports, point increases on DA, nerf to WoP, nerf to Quicken, nerf to fire and fade...
- Blood angels? RIP
. Poxwalker farms? RIP
- Tzangor/bloodletter bombs? RIP
- Scion plasma? RIP
- Dark talon spam? RIP
- Mortar spam? RIP
. PB crawler spam? RIP
- Oblits? Coming turn 2
- And so on and so on...
The game is so different now that saying "We suck because we lost our top builds" is meaningless.
The 2 only possible troubles come from long range castles, which right now are 2 factions:
- AM - T'au
We are a counter to both of these, simply because they are BS4+ factions, and we can provide plenty of hit penalties.
In addition, AM has lost what made the lists possible, which is the mobile element: Scion or BA complement. If they want to go the gunline route, they will have to do it the hard way, which is zero mobility.
T'au did also lose the drone alpha strike.
Let's play it out guys, this is a new world.
I agree with you. However, I think that the Guard lists can now just field 3 Heavy weapon squads + 3 Leman Russ + 3 Manticore and the Scions can still deep strike turn 2 and do their thing.
I am also afraid that it will be the return of mass spamming AssBack + Gulliman.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Some other questions/discussions?
- How much more important are Venomthropes now? You have to at least field 50% of your army on the field and can be shot for one round...
- Is the Mawlock still interesting, since he cannot do damage turn 1?
- How much better got the survival Hive Traits like Leviathan and Jormungandr?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 07:24:08
2018/04/17 08:46:52
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
The competitiveness of the whole game has gone down considerably, we are not the only ones who lost something, nor we are the ones who were more hurt by this FAQ.
Sure, our top stuff is gone, but also the top stuff of all other factions is gone, so before losing ourselves in negativity, we should try to assess the new global situation.
We could easily come on top after all this, simply because our top builds were just the lid that covered a codex full of viable builds that were just a little bit worse. Flyrants and mega alpha strikes were not a clutch for us.
Compare that to what other factions have lost:
- Eldars? Point increases to all psy supports, point increases on DA, nerf to WoP, nerf to Quicken, nerf to fire and fade...
- Blood angels? RIP
. Poxwalker farms? RIP
- Tzangor/bloodletter bombs? RIP
- Scion plasma? RIP
- Dark talon spam? RIP
- Mortar spam? RIP
. PB crawler spam? RIP
- Oblits? Coming turn 2
- And so on and so on...
The game is so different now that saying "We suck because we lost our top builds" is meaningless.
The 2 only possible troubles come from long range castles, which right now are 2 factions:
- AM - T'au
We are a counter to both of these, simply because they are BS4+ factions, and we can provide plenty of hit penalties. In addition, AM has lost what made the lists possible, which is the mobile element: Scion or BA complement. If they want to go the gunline route, they will have to do it the hard way, which is zero mobility.
T'au did also lose the drone alpha strike.
Let's play it out guys, this is a new world.
I agree with you. However, I think that the Guard lists can now just field 3 Heavy weapon squads + 3 Leman Russ + 3 Manticore and the Scions can still deep strike turn 2 and do their thing. That would a terrible list though, it loses against many more lists than it wins against (loses against all hordes and all lists with hit penalties). I am also afraid that it will be the return of mass spamming AssBack + Gulliman. Nah, that list was killed by all the cost increaes on Gman, assault cannons and razorbacks. It's not going to be brough back by yet another cost increase. Even if it happens, that list is based on range 24", not exactly a turn 1 thing.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Some other questions/discussions?
- How much more important are Venomthropes now? You have to at least field 50% of your army on the field and can be shot for one round...
- Is the Mawlock still interesting, since he cannot do damage turn 1?
- How much better got the survival Hive Traits like Leviathan and Jormungandr?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 08:47:28
2018/04/17 09:31:54
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
The competitiveness of the whole game has gone down considerably, we are not the only ones who lost something, nor we are the ones who were more hurt by this FAQ.
Sure, our top stuff is gone, but also the top stuff of all other factions is gone, so before losing ourselves in negativity, we should try to assess the new global situation.
We could easily come on top after all this, simply because our top builds were just the lid that covered a codex full of viable builds that were just a little bit worse. Flyrants and mega alpha strikes were not a clutch for us.
Compare that to what other factions have lost:
- Eldars? Point increases to all psy supports, point increases on DA, nerf to WoP, nerf to Quicken, nerf to fire and fade...
- Blood angels? RIP
. Poxwalker farms? RIP
- Tzangor/bloodletter bombs? RIP
- Scion plasma? RIP
- Dark talon spam? RIP
- Mortar spam? RIP
. PB crawler spam? RIP
- Oblits? Coming turn 2
- And so on and so on...
The game is so different now that saying "We suck because we lost our top builds" is meaningless.
The 2 only possible troubles come from long range castles, which right now are 2 factions:
- AM - T'au
We are a counter to both of these, simply because they are BS4+ factions, and we can provide plenty of hit penalties.
In addition, AM has lost what made the lists possible, which is the mobile element: Scion or BA complement. If they want to go the gunline route, they will have to do it the hard way, which is zero mobility.
T'au did also lose the drone alpha strike.
Let's play it out guys, this is a new world.
I agree with you. However, I think that the Guard lists can now just field 3 Heavy weapon squads + 3 Leman Russ + 3 Manticore and the Scions can still deep strike turn 2 and do their thing.
I am also afraid that it will be the return of mass spamming AssBack + Gulliman.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Some other questions/discussions?
- How much more important are Venomthropes now? You have to at least field 50% of your army on the field and can be shot for one round...
- Is the Mawlock still interesting, since he cannot do damage turn 1?
- How much better got the survival Hive Traits like Leviathan and Jormungandr?
I don't know about the survival Hive Traits, but Behemoth got basically reamed and shafted.
2018/04/17 09:35:07
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
_Ness wrote: did i miss smthn or are we limited to 1 hive fleet armywide?
We are limited to one fleet per detachment. You can still have several detachments from different hive fleets in the army.
Also, if we bring Genestealer Cult units, they need to be in their own detachment. They might BTW be even more useful, because they are now one of few armies that has a really good chance of a first turn charge.
2018/04/17 11:45:45
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
All other things aside, bivores still worth it? I'm happy enough with the faq and whilst meta shifting its certainly interesting. Looking forward to it,
I think the biovore nerf just killed them but they are still the cheapest brigade option so temptation is to keep them (I play events with no duplicate detachments allowed so double or triple battalion isnt an option)
34 points was criminally cheap for a 4-wound infantry model that threw Hail Mary mortal wounds, generated free models, and could be taken in units of 1. 50 points feels much more even, and this is from someone who took 6 of the things.
2018/04/17 14:32:40
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
The competitiveness of the whole game has gone down considerably, we are not the only ones who lost something, nor we are the ones who were more hurt by this FAQ.
Sure, our top stuff is gone, but also the top stuff of all other factions is gone, so before losing ourselves in negativity, we should try to assess the new global situation.
We could easily come on top after all this, simply because our top builds were just the lid that covered a codex full of viable builds that were just a little bit worse. Flyrants and mega alpha strikes were not a clutch for us.
Compare that to what other factions have lost:
- Eldars? Point increases to all psy supports, point increases on DA, nerf to WoP, nerf to Quicken, nerf to fire and fade...
- Blood angels? RIP
. Poxwalker farms? RIP
- Tzangor/bloodletter bombs? RIP
- Scion plasma? RIP
- Dark talon spam? RIP
- Mortar spam? RIP
. PB crawler spam? RIP
- Oblits? Coming turn 2
- And so on and so on...
The game is so different now that saying "We suck because we lost our top builds" is meaningless.
The 2 only possible troubles come from long range castles, which right now are 2 factions:
- AM - T'au
We are a counter to both of these, simply because they are BS4+ factions, and we can provide plenty of hit penalties.
In addition, AM has lost what made the lists possible, which is the mobile element: Scion or BA complement. If they want to go the gunline route, they will have to do it the hard way, which is zero mobility.
T'au did also lose the drone alpha strike.
Let's play it out guys, this is a new world.
I agree with you. However, I think that the Guard lists can now just field 3 Heavy weapon squads + 3 Leman Russ + 3 Manticore and the Scions can still deep strike turn 2 and do their thing.
That would a terrible list though, it loses against many more lists than it wins against (loses against all hordes and all lists with hit penalties).
I am also afraid that it will be the return of mass spamming AssBack + Gulliman.
Nah, that list was killed by all the cost increaes on Gman, assault cannons and razorbacks. It's not going to be brough back by yet another cost increase. Even if it happens, that list is based on range 24", not exactly a turn 1 thing.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Some other questions/discussions?
- How much more important are Venomthropes now? You have to at least field 50% of your army on the field and can be shot for one round...
- Is the Mawlock still interesting, since he cannot do damage turn 1?
- How much better got the survival Hive Traits like Leviathan and Jormungandr?
How is Jorm better. They rely on the DS to get close. With the cover your still marching across the board and getting shot up. Tau and AM definitely won out.
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
The time for Kronos gunline is now? No pesky T1 deepstrikers to bug us any more. Plenty of CP to spend on double tapping our hive Guard. The time of the Exocrine is approaching! The time of the rupture cannon is nigh! The time for the psychic denying spore mine shot out of an invisible biovore 48" away has cometh!
14000
15000
4000
2018/04/17 17:12:48
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Both assault and ranged units suffer from diminishing returns, so going full assault or full shooting is something that you should do only if your faction shoehorns you into that. (Khorne, Tau or stuff like that)
Tyranids can play the 50/50 and should do that for maximum efficency.
2018/04/17 17:47:14
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Astmeister wrote: Automatically Appended Next Post: Some other questions/discussions?
- How much more important are Venomthropes now? You have to at least field 50% of your army on the field and can be shot for one round...
- Is the Mawlock still interesting, since he cannot do damage turn 1?
- How much better got the survival Hive Traits like Leviathan and Jormungandr?
Venomthropes can be very usefull, especially when forgeworld is banned. Now shooting will be more vaueable again, because most armys have to put lot of powerlevel on the table.
Mawlock is still usefull too. If you cant come turn 1, deploy him turn 1 to get powerlevel/units on the table and burrow it for turn 2.
24.000 Tyranids painted, still rising in numbers
4.000 Genestealer Cult
7.000
2018/04/17 18:44:20
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
topaxygouroun i wrote: The time for Kronos gunline is now? No pesky T1 deepstrikers to bug us any more. Plenty of CP to spend on double tapping our hive Guard. The time of the Exocrine is approaching! The time of the rupture cannon is nigh! The time for the psychic denying spore mine shot out of an invisible biovore 48" away has cometh!
Mad love for your bravado, but I'm 95% sure Spore mines don't inherit the HIVE FLEET trait of their creators. Doesn't work that way with Daemons, either.
topaxygouroun i wrote: The time for Kronos gunline is now? No pesky T1 deepstrikers to bug us any more. Plenty of CP to spend on double tapping our hive Guard. The time of the Exocrine is approaching! The time of the rupture cannon is nigh! The time for the psychic denying spore mine shot out of an invisible biovore 48" away has cometh!
Mad love for your bravado, but I'm 95% sure Spore mines don't inherit the HIVE FLEET trait of their creators. Doesn't work that way with Daemons, either.
First item in the tyranids FAQ:
Page 101 – Biovores, Spore Mine Launcher
Change the first sentence of the second paragraph
to read:
‘Each time a spore mine launcher misses its target, set
up a single <Hive Fleet> Spore Mine model anywhere
within 6" of the target unit and more than 3" from any
enemy model (if the Spore Mine cannot be placed it
is destroyed).’
The <Hive Fleet> tag is whatever hive fleet the Biovore has.
6000+
2500
2000
2000
2018/04/17 19:09:15
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
How can heavily melee oriented armies deal with the changes to ruins and suchlike that make upper floors extremely easy to dominate? Can the Dimachaeron accomplish anything whatsoever? Right now my gaming circle is trying to work out how to make our Kraken member stand a chance. Main idea right now is an agreement that Objectives can only be placed at ground level.
topaxygouroun i wrote: The time for Kronos gunline is now? No pesky T1 deepstrikers to bug us any more. Plenty of CP to spend on double tapping our hive Guard. The time of the Exocrine is approaching! The time of the rupture cannon is nigh! The time for the psychic denying spore mine shot out of an invisible biovore 48" away has cometh!
Mad love for your bravado, but I'm 95% sure Spore mines don't inherit the HIVE FLEET trait of their creators. Doesn't work that way with Daemons, either.
First item in the tyranids FAQ:
Page 101 – Biovores, Spore Mine Launcher
Change the first sentence of the second paragraph
to read:
‘Each time a spore mine launcher misses its target, set
up a single <Hive Fleet> Spore Mine model anywhere
within 6" of the target unit and more than 3" from any
enemy model (if the Spore Mine cannot be placed it
is destroyed).’
The <Hive Fleet> tag is whatever hive fleet the Biovore has.
I missed that. THat is a good buff. Get a save with Jorm, or advance quicker if they back away with Kraken. Hell depending on positions, with Leviathan they may even get a 6+++ FnP save.
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
Walkrants are still pants, for the same reason they were pants two days ago.
topaxygouroun i wrote: The time for Kronos gunline is now? No pesky T1 deepstrikers to bug us any more.
Alpha Legion Berserkers will still bug you anywhere they please. Forward Operatives send its regards. If needed, Warp Time'd too.
Why do you say so? It's worth every point you invest in it. It ends up being a 170 point model (without abusing MRC), and has both the offensive and the defensive capabilities of that point cost. On top of that it has 2 powers and a synapse with extended range. It's well worth it's cost. Sure, the flyrant was better, but there's a reason why that got nerfed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 20:46:35
2018/04/17 20:55:05
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
6k 
3k 
1k 
15000
6000+
2000
