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2018/04/19 10:19:27
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I know this concept. But not all armies can pull it of so easily, because they don't have them.
Besides why is everyone crying that he lost first turn deep strike, when it is so easy to screen it anyways?
There are still some possibilities for t1 charges with nids:
- Swarmlord
- Kraken strat
- Hive Crone
- Harpyie
You might even see armies which are not totally made of Flyrants + 60 Genestealers. For me this is a good thing.
2018/04/19 13:18:27
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Tinkering with a list, mostly models that interest me to paint. Been looking at a Xenos army option for a while as I only have Imperial stuff. I wanted to do Nidzilla back when the Codex hit and I think maybe now I can maybe pull it off somewhat.
Here was a list I am tinkering with and hopefully the sageful folks here can steer me in a good direction:
Heavy:
Carnifex
2x Twin Devourers with BLW, Enhanced Senses
[105]
Carnifex
2x Twin Devourers with BLW, Enhanced Senses
[105]
Carnifex
2x Twin Devourers with BLW, Enhanced Senses
[105]
[609]
[1991]
10 CP
Straight-forward list with an emphasis on the gun-toting big critters. I can screen with the Rippers or hold them back and toss them out to take distant objectives (the turn before they auto-die).
Should be legal! Still getting my head around 'Nids too, so if I am goofing on obvious options, let me know!
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Tinkering with a list, mostly models that interest me to paint. Been looking at a Xenos army option for a while as I only have Imperial stuff. I wanted to do Nidzilla back when the Codex hit and I think maybe now I can maybe pull it off somewhat.
Here was a list I am tinkering with and hopefully the sageful folks here can steer me in a good direction:
Heavy:
Carnifex
2x Twin Devourers with BLW, Enhanced Senses
[105]
Carnifex
2x Twin Devourers with BLW, Enhanced Senses
[105]
Carnifex
2x Twin Devourers with BLW, Enhanced Senses
[105]
[609]
[1991]
10 CP
Straight-forward list with an emphasis on the gun-toting big critters. I can screen with the Rippers or hold them back and toss them out to take distant objectives (the turn before they auto-die).
Should be legal! Still getting my head around 'Nids too, so if I am goofing on obvious options, let me know!
You need more chaff, 3 squads of rippers will literally evaporate. I'd suggest cutting a unit of hive guard for either one big blob of termagants or several small blobs, then stick the two remaining hive guard units into one big squad to get the most use out of single minded annihilation.
2018/04/19 15:24:15
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Tinkering with a list, mostly models that interest me to paint. Been looking at a Xenos army option for a while as I only have Imperial stuff. I wanted to do Nidzilla back when the Codex hit and I think maybe now I can maybe pull it off somewhat.
Here was a list I am tinkering with and hopefully the sageful folks here can steer me in a good direction:
Heavy:
Carnifex
2x Twin Devourers with BLW, Enhanced Senses
[105]
Carnifex
2x Twin Devourers with BLW, Enhanced Senses
[105]
Carnifex
2x Twin Devourers with BLW, Enhanced Senses
[105]
[609]
[1991]
10 CP
Straight-forward list with an emphasis on the gun-toting big critters. I can screen with the Rippers or hold them back and toss them out to take distant objectives (the turn before they auto-die).
Should be legal! Still getting my head around 'Nids too, so if I am goofing on obvious options, let me know!
You need more chaff, 3 squads of rippers will literally evaporate. I'd suggest cutting a unit of hive guard for either one big blob of termagants or several small blobs, then stick the two remaining hive guard units into one big squad to get the most use out of single minded annihilation.
Is chaff going to be as vital as it was? Was it for speed-bumping or keeping back alphas? Because I am going to be going full Beta rules and don't expect alphas to be as big of an issue.
But I do like the idea of maximizing the Hive Guard for the strategem. Similar to what I do with my Dakkastelans in AdMech. Could cut a 'Fex to make some more room for chaff, too.
Ok, so. I've done some thinking, some theorizing and some play testing.
Whilst our Alphastrike has been neutered.
We still have other options.
We have many viable ways to play, but really only two against an optimized list.
I play in a competitive environment. Everyone around here runs/attends tournaments with multiple armies and are WAAC type of players.
So, I have no option but to run an optimized list myself. Otherwise, I am as well setting up my Nids, and then removing them in fistfulls in turn 1. Its happened before.
So, we either saturate the table with high T models. Carnies and the like.
Or, we cover the table in T3 1W models with untargetable HQ's.
All their heavy weapons are pointless then.
So. My current work in progress is as follows.
I'll start with my method/thoughts and then provide the list at the bottom.
My thoughts.
The battalion will be Kronos for a heavy psycher meta, or Levi for everything else. 6+++ is invaluable for the list.
The Outrider is undetermined.
The Vanguard is GSC.
So, thoughts.
I deploy the spores and GSC aggressively. Using CP and the Primus to re-roll and get good positioning on deployment.
The gants and Malanthrope will string out to cover a very large area. But they will all benefit from synapse and -1 to hit.
The zoans will be played aggressively but behind gants.
Ultimately, I have no way of dealing with High toughness models outside of MW's. Which is fine.
Once the infantry is dead. The big guns cannot make enough of a dent in my hoard Ill then hold objectives through weight of numbers.
The GSC and Spores create an immediate threat for my opponent which forces them to direct fire while i advance up the table to steal objectives.
There is an option to split 1 unit of gants into 3 units of 10 for objective holding back field.
At the start of the game I will have around 222 bodys on the table at 1W each. Yes, they are easy to kill. But, as above. Once their infantry is neutered, I am more or less impervious to the big guns.
Any comments?
So far, in my single test game against marines, my opponent had no idea what to do with his Predator or heavy weapons teams. The look on his face
We calculated. With the 6+, 6+++ and -1 to hit. Even if every bullet hit, and then rolled to wound + saves. He couldnt kill my army.
He wasn't happy.
I aim to please the Hive Mind.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/19 19:04:36
2018/04/19 20:01:08
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Well, in my test game. With the Primus re-rolls and the 1cp stratagem. I had two units with the Primus deploying 9" away, moving and advancing before T1.
I got T1 and I ate a unit of marines with each squad of Genestealers at full strength and hitting on 2's with the Primus.
After that, my opponent fired EVERYTHING at genestealers. By the end of his T2, I had about 10 left and he had his heavy weapons teams and tanks.
At this point he knew the game was lost as he still had 170 gants to kill plus characters.
His main problem was bunkering behind his marines and scouts. Having them close together let me keep them all in combat, minimising S4 firepower.
I think it went well. If we played again, we will this weekend. Same lists.
He will deploy differently after our post game discussion. Basicly 1k of my army killed about 1k of his army. Fairs fair. But the stuff that was left couldnt kill 170 gants.
I didnt really 'need' speed. Because I got good deployment. It wont always work that way obviously.
If I got bad deployment, I think the end result would have been similar. He cant actually table me. Even with perfect rolling. So...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/19 20:11:07
2018/04/19 20:40:16
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
It's really not. It's a decent utility piece and tough enough to absorb a lot of fire power, particularly in cover and or FNP
The Tervigon is OK, but it seems to be balanced for narrative play, where it can freely spawn Termagants each turn.
In matched play it is wayyyyy overpriced.
It does nothing but cast a single psi power each turn and buff some gaunts lightly + synapse. For 70 points you get a HQ that can do two psi powers, also synapse, can't be targeted.
So to make up the difference in points.. you need to spawn a lot of Termagants. That's hard to do, because in 1500+ games, opponents will simply take out all 30 of them at a time and there is nothing you can spawn...
It can only absorb fire power if your opponent shoots at it, but why should he do that while there are literally any other targets in range?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/19 20:42:08
2018/04/19 23:36:28
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
SHUPPET wrote: havent played since last dex, what changed?
8th edition is rolling along. Nids wonn some tournaments with flyrant spam, flyrant spam + mawlocks, Flyrants + Hivbe guards, and some mixed listst. Eldar reapers and pox walker lists have dominated.
GW has responded with point increases to keep down broken units. But they do not like any of the best practises, smite spam etc. With all the nerfs in play it is expected for gunline armies to do well again. We will see. I expect such a trend to get some nerfed rules in 6 months.
Ok, so. I've done some thinking, some theorizing and some play testing.
Whilst our Alphastrike has been neutered.
We still have other options.
We have many viable ways to play, but really only two against an optimized list.
I play in a competitive environment. Everyone around here runs/attends tournaments with multiple armies and are WAAC type of players.
So, I have no option but to run an optimized list myself. Otherwise, I am as well setting up my Nids, and then removing them in fistfulls in turn 1. Its happened before.
So, we either saturate the table with high T models. Carnies and the like.
Or, we cover the table in T3 1W models with untargetable HQ's.
All their heavy weapons are pointless then.
So. My current work in progress is as follows.
I'll start with my method/thoughts and then provide the list at the bottom.
My thoughts.
The battalion will be Kronos for a heavy psycher meta, or Levi for everything else. 6+++ is invaluable for the list.
The Outrider is undetermined.
The Vanguard is GSC.
So, thoughts.
I deploy the spores and GSC aggressively. Using CP and the Primus to re-roll and get good positioning on deployment.
The gants and Malanthrope will string out to cover a very large area. But they will all benefit from synapse and -1 to hit.
The zoans will be played aggressively but behind gants.
Ultimately, I have no way of dealing with High toughness models outside of MW's. Which is fine.
Once the infantry is dead. The big guns cannot make enough of a dent in my hoard Ill then hold objectives through weight of numbers.
The GSC and Spores create an immediate threat for my opponent which forces them to direct fire while i advance up the table to steal objectives.
There is an option to split 1 unit of gants into 3 units of 10 for objective holding back field.
At the start of the game I will have around 222 bodys on the table at 1W each. Yes, they are easy to kill. But, as above. Once their infantry is neutered, I am more or less impervious to the big guns.
Any comments?
So far, in my single test game against marines, my opponent had no idea what to do with his Predator or heavy weapons teams. The look on his face
We calculated. With the 6+, 6+++ and -1 to hit. Even if every bullet hit, and then rolled to wound + saves. He couldnt kill my army.
He wasn't happy.
I aim to please the Hive Mind.
Your List is amazing!
Would you consider swapping some Termagants for Hormagants?
2018/04/20 11:47:26
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I struggle as it is to get more than 3 turns in, in 8th ed. This army would give me and my opponent 2 turns. I'm kind of a slow player, so that's a problem. ´
Suggestions: Switch Soul Hunger (never does anything on a defensive Neurothrope) for extra synapse range.
2018/04/20 11:52:50
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Years ago I played 180 gant / gaunt lists and I was accustomed at moving large amounts of gribbles fast. If I try to pull this thing now my opponent will punch me in the face
On the other hand, your other phases except movement are mostly nonexistent so you could spend the extra time moving and then passing your turn.
Why termagants though? If you swap the whole thing for hormagaunts you will get a much, much faster army. Which is -I suppose- what your list wants to do.
14000
15000
4000
2018/04/20 13:32:28
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
topaxygouroun i wrote: Years ago I played 180 gant / gaunt lists and I was accustomed at moving large amounts of gribbles fast. If I try to pull this thing now my opponent will punch me in the face
On the other hand, your other phases except movement are mostly nonexistent so you could spend the extra time moving and then passing your turn.
Why termagants though? If you swap the whole thing for hormagaunts you will get a much, much faster army. Which is -I suppose- what your list wants to do.
If people complain about hordes at the next tourney bc I am gonna punch someone. We cant have flyrants/alpha ds, so we go horde. Then people bitch about slow play. They will learn.
I am going to try a swarm list and test out hyrda. though I have 30 hormies in my list.
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Based on the recommendation that I bring at least one sizable chaff unit, I revised my list. Still mostly big stuff, so I am reasonably happy.
Heavy:
Carnifex
2x Twin Devourers with BLW, Enhanced Senses
[105]
Carnifex
2x Twin Devourers with BLW, Enhanced Senses
[105]
Carnifex
2x Twin Devourers with BLW, Enhanced Senses
[105]
[385]
[1995]
Look better? Any more ideas on making it as close to competitive as possible?
Do you foresee not moving the Exo and Tyrannofex much? May want to just go with Kronos for them as well. I would drop 2 rippers from each group; gives you 44 pts, +5 you have left and buy one more Hive Guard to get a nice unit of 6. Other than that looks good. Rippers are meant to park on objectives and hide. Its easier to hide 3 than 5.
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Based on the recommendation that I bring at least one sizable chaff unit, I revised my list. Still mostly big stuff, so I am reasonably happy.
Heavy:
Carnifex
2x Twin Devourers with BLW, Enhanced Senses
[105]
Carnifex
2x Twin Devourers with BLW, Enhanced Senses
[105]
Carnifex
2x Twin Devourers with BLW, Enhanced Senses
[105]
[385]
[1995]
Look better? Any more ideas on making it as close to competitive as possible?
Do you foresee not moving the Exo and Tyrannofex much? May want to just go with Kronos for them as well. I would drop 2 rippers from each group; gives you 44 pts, +5 you have left and buy one more Hive Guard to get a nice unit of 6. Other than that looks good. Rippers are meant to park on objectives and hide. Its easier to hide 3 than 5.
That is a fair point on Kronos for the Exo and Tyranno. I was mostly thinking that they would eat a lot of shooting and the added durability would be useful, as they for sure aren't moving - not with their various perks. I can try them both, as they aren't painted to those specific factions.
And that is a damn good idea on the Rippers. Another Hive Guard would be welcome, for sure!
I am running Termies over Hormies because I for every 20 hormies I can get 25 Termies.
Yes, its faster. Yes I'll get up the table faster.
But I also need some ranged capacity. Albeit at 12".
But, it means my entire army is S4.
Instead of 170+ modele being S3.
If I wanted to have hormies. Id give my termies Spine fists. Same amount of attacks in combat and S3 all over for 1pt less.
Not as fast. But I wont have room to fit them all in anyway.
Also, the Neurothropes will be very aggressive for smite use.
So Soul Hunger will be helpful.
Assuming I run Kronos and not Levi.
On another note, I use movement trays.
MDF 25mm cut out. 5 gants per tray and 1.5" gap between each.
My turns are actually REALLY quick.
Movement takes some time. Movement trays speed this up significantly.
Psychic is quick. Having 2 psychers.
Shooting, is non existent. As my weapons are 12" range. Until later in the game atleast.
Combat is a normal combat phase. Tend to have 8 genestealers worth of dice measured out at a time. This way, when he kills some its easy to calculate. Rather than having to count each time.
All about optimising
My strategy is simple too. Kill anything with lots of shots.
Tanks can be ignored. LOS cam be ignored etc. I dont care about hiding from them
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/20 16:50:20
2018/04/20 17:33:23
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
What do you think about a balanced 50/50, alpha strike/gunline army? I feel like this is building on the strongest alpha strike and shooty units we have. Its going to hit hard from DS turn 2, and still have a lot of solid shooty units.
Flyrants, 2 mawlocs and rippers are in DS. The other Mawloc is deployed, burries turn one and comes in with the rest turn 2.
Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) ++
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant: 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
Hive Tyrant: 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
killerpenguin wrote: What do you think about a balanced 50/50, alpha strike/gunline army? I feel like this is building on the strongest alpha strike and shooty units we have. Its going to hit hard from DS turn 2, and still have a lot of solid shooty units.
Flyrants, 2 mawlocs and rippers are in DS. The other Mawloc is deployed, burries turn one and comes in with the rest turn 2.
Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) ++
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant: 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
Hive Tyrant: 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
Depends on the opponent. If your opponent can swarm the table turn 1, you will have a hard time to place your drops outside your own deployment zone.
Had a game two days ago in which i got encastled by necron scarab swarms and wraiths. If you got first turn in addition it is very anoying...
Not always the case, but keep this in mind.
24.000 Tyranids painted, still rising in numbers
4.000 Genestealer Cult
7.000
2018/04/21 12:28:37
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
killerpenguin wrote: What do you think about a balanced 50/50, alpha strike/gunline army? I feel like this is building on the strongest alpha strike and shooty units we have. Its going to hit hard from DS turn 2, and still have a lot of solid shooty units.
Flyrants, 2 mawlocs and rippers are in DS. The other Mawloc is deployed, burries turn one and comes in with the rest turn 2.
Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) ++
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant: 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
Hive Tyrant: 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
Depends on the opponent. If your opponent can swarm the table turn 1, you will have a hard time to place your drops outside your own deployment zone.
Had a game two days ago in which i got encastled by necron scarab swarms and wraiths. If you got first turn in addition it is very anoying...
Not always the case, but keep this in mind.
That is an issue with alot of beta strike armies, but not a great issue for this list. The mawlocs will get in no matter what, and two of my flyrants are shooty, so the dont depend on getting into combat, sometimes they'd rather stay out of combat. Its actually more of a shooty list with two higly mobile fiering platforms in the dakka flyrands and one CC monster in the WL. The mawlocs are more of a distraction than anything else, they're there to soak up fire and charge shooty units if they survive.
2018/04/22 00:33:47
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
6000+
2500
2000
2000
15000
4000 
10000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
