Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I mean, the assumption in my earlier posts is that there aren't full kits on the way, and the SC set is the extent of the update (which is how I read the article), in which case, yeah, there's no reason to discontinue the current Warriors and Knights and lose every option not in the box. Thought that was fairly obvious, but if it wasn't clear enough, then my bad, I'll cop that.

As much as I dislike the current models for the Warriors (the Knights are perfectly fine), I wouldn't be happy with the ten in the SC set being the only ten available. That's why it's disappointing to me. More than happy to be incredibly wrong, but until we get confirmation otherwise, what we're getting now is a "starter" set that goes nowhere.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm surprised someone is able to frame new and old kits being available concurrently as a bad thing, but whatever.

It's baffling, huh?

Really this is just a pivot on what Start Collectings! are. Soon they'll all be more simplistic minis (like the last 2 that came out, and this one), and not something existing players use to bulk up an army.

But... all three _can_ be used to bulk up an army.

Seriously, the SM is $15 cheaper than the two boxes of it that are actually available, and gets you the unit that doesn't otherwise exist, plus the yet-another-lieutenant. You might have to buy the eliminators separately (though those are also out of stock still) if you want las-talons, but it seems pretty hard to justify $50 for 3 guns.

Chaos Marines are similar, and arguably even better at army building.

This one isn't quite as clear since the price/unit size of the old models is different, but I'd definitely take the new warriors with set poses over the march-of-the-clones warriors. Multiple boxes don't seem at all a bad thing, though there is less value than the Marine ones.

Sure, if you want to bulk up your army with the same minis repeated over and over again. Does everyone want the same two Greater Possessed over and over? Chaos Lord on Chaos Crododile? Same Phobos LT in the same post over and over?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sure, if you want to bulk up your army with the same minis repeated over and over again. Does everyone want the same two Greater Possessed over and over? Chaos Lord on Chaos Crododile? Same Phobos LT in the same post over and over?

Not saying it is a good thing, but it has always been like that, only now everything is in plastic instead of metal/resin. Just looking at the ogre lineup without 3rd party stuff.... Frost Sabre pack of 12 with only 2 slightly different poses. 3 Butcher with different heads, and two weapon options, etc.
Monopose models are pretty awesome, because they allow for far better poses, but GW builds games where you want to have multiples of the same unit/hero.
I think the Primaris kits are a pretty decent compromise between these two worlds. Body posture is fixed (5 variations), but there are so many arms and heads, no model looks the same.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sure, if you want to bulk up your army with the same minis repeated over and over again. Does everyone want the same two Greater Possessed over and over? Chaos Lord on Chaos Crododile? Same Phobos LT in the same post over and over?

Does anyone realistically buy 2x the same HQ/Hero model?

 Overread wrote:
I think he means he'd rather they discontinued the only knights and warriors and replaced them with these newer sculpts with multi-part options for various weapons. Rather than the current setup where you've got old warriors, old knights and at least one weapon upgrade pack for the warriors.

So nothing would be lost from the army, just updated with a new sculpt.

Well they could still do that later. Remember until GW is ready to announce it they will deny it. Even if announcement is in 2 weeks. So no reason this can't be for few months and THEN come multi part kit. Wouldn't be first time GW has done that.

Yeah... I think some folks are reading a bit much into this. The article just says that these kits aren’t replacing the existing ones, and if you like the old, you can keep using them. That doesn’t indicate to me that new multipart kits aren’t going to happen. Just that while this SC is introduced, you can still use the old multipart kit. They don’t appear to be saying much at all about the future,really.

Cronch wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sure, if you want to bulk up your army with the same minis repeated over and over again. Does everyone want the same two Greater Possessed over and over? Chaos Lord on Chaos Crododile? Same Phobos LT in the same post over and over?

Does anyone realistically buy 2x the same HQ/Hero model?

Depends on the kit, and whether you want to use it as a conversion base or not. I know I've done that with several GSC hero/commander models.

I like the new Krakalackadile a lot. And might try to change it a bit if I get more then one SC.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/12/03/faction-focus-slaves-to-darknessgw-homepage-post-2/

Faction Focus

'In-game, you’ll be able to harness the fickle blessings of the Chaos Gods with a truly glorious random table. Roll after you slay a hero or a monster and you could see some incredible new powers, including transformation into a Daemon Prince. Or you might transform into a Spawn – the gods have a sick sense of humour like that.'


Nothing inspires more fear in me (while controlling that army) than a 'truly glorious random table.' They trend toward actively terrible.



-----

 Carnikang wrote:

I like the new Krakalackadile a lot. And might try to change it a bit if I get more then one SC.

Ah goofy fantasy names. It doesn't help that it looks like a typo for Kraka Drak, the norse dwarf stronghold.
Though imagining it as a lizard made up of the essence of thousands of dwarf corpses helps, oddly enough.

I'm still hoping to see the scions of flame in this codex

The Ravagers are rather interesting, given that aura abilities get better for the army general. You can basically tailor and buff sections of the battlefield as you need it.


On an odder note....

These could be Chaos Warriors for an elite force, Chaos Marauders for a horde, or Chaos Knights and Marauder Horsemen for faster, mounted horses!

mounted...horses?

I know what they were going for here, but, mounted horses sounds like the start of a weird hentai pyramid scheme, when they should have been aiming for 'faster mounted units or faster mounted troops'

The Ravagers sound extremely cool to play, TBH.

Hmm... I see a direct reference to "Chaos Undivided". So that's changed again.

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/12/03/faction-focus-slaves-to-darknessgw-homepage-post-2/

Faction Focus

'In-game, you’ll be able to harness the fickle blessings of the Chaos Gods with a truly glorious random table. Roll after you slay a hero or a monster and you could see some incredible new powers, including transformation into a Daemon Prince. Or you might transform into a Spawn – the gods have a sick sense of humour like that.'


Nothing inspires more fear in me (while controlling that army) than a 'truly glorious random table.' They trend toward actively terrible.

So the table from CSM 1 or 2 editions ago. Pure cancer.

Can anyone watch it?

i really need to know if scions of the flame are in this book




pd. Does anyone know if there will be a seminar at PAX Unplugged this weekend?

I assume if they were doing a thing at Pax, they'd have a banner on the WarCom site announcing it, promising reveals. They've been pretty consistent about it for event coverage this year.

The next preview will most likely be at the New Year Open Day on January 4th.

I want to see what mark of Slaanesh does.

 Ghaz wrote:
The next preview will most likely be at the New Year Open Day on January 4th.

I’m sure I’d seen them mention that the 40k open day was the last preview of the year.
Though I suppose that could have meant last 40k one and not overall, but..

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/12/03/faction-focus-slaves-to-darknessgw-homepage-post-2/

Faction Focus

'In-game, you’ll be able to harness the fickle blessings of the Chaos Gods with a truly glorious random table. Roll after you slay a hero or a monster and you could see some incredible new powers, including transformation into a Daemon Prince. Or you might transform into a Spawn – the gods have a sick sense of humour like that.'


Nothing inspires more fear in me (while controlling that army) than a 'truly glorious random table.' They trend toward actively terrible.

So the table from CSM 1 or 2 editions ago. Pure cancer.

That was my first thought too. I'm getting PTSD flashbacks to the previous 40k Daemons Codex and the 30min pre-game book keeping phase "just sit tight for a while while I roll all my boons and gifts"

Well the WoC one from 8th was pretty good, so I wouldn't give up hope yet.

 Ghaz wrote:
The next preview will most likely be at the New Year Open Day on January 4th.

full reveal of the next psychic awakening is on December 25

If chaos battletome has rules for tyrants and the ogroid (they look in the pictures), the logical thing would be to also have rules for scions of the flame and other monsters, so the ideal would be to show them at pax.

If they don't include the rules of scions of the flame in the book, it would be a bit shabby to leave a single chaotic band out of the book

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Well the WoC one from 8th was pretty good, so I wouldn't give up hope yet.

This right here. The 8th ed Eye off the Gods table wasn't remotely comparable to its dumb 40k counterpart.

It was a 2D6 table with mostly good results and the ability to manipulate it with the Chaos Shrine. It may have even been a little too good considering it gave me an unbeaten Chaos Lord who always took down the enemy army by herself while the rest of the army mostly just stood there and cheered her on.

I will say I was not impressed with how the Vortex Beast lost its random table, too, when AoS came out. That used to be great fun. People can be skeptical about random tables all they want, I say a Chaos army without them is dull and boring. Part of the reason why I played Slaves to Darkness exactly once. The army had lost any and all flavor in the transition to Age of Sigmar (which, admittedly, was partly due to the core rules of AoS - the odd random table alone wouldn't have done anything to fix that).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sure, if you want to bulk up your army with the same minis repeated over and over again. Does everyone want the same two Greater Possessed over and over? Chaos Lord on Chaos Crododile? Same Phobos LT in the same post over and over?

I had no idea GW forbid doing conversions and made CSM and SM arms/heads/other stuff no longer compatible. It's like half of the fun in this hobby is making your own stuff, did they blocked it with mandatory prison sentences or should I just pay a fine?

As for the Lord, please, not only there is a whole range of bits to swap (in the same box, even), but you're also acting like any GW box ever that was a Character on Beast was in any way not-repeatable. If anything, plastics are getting better at this, instead of terribad Fantasy metals that were impossible to convert you often have multiple heads and other stuff to differentiate appearance of big AoS kits. Look at say Lord of Change or bonestealer mounted General and tell me with a straight face any Fantasy kit was better (especially their direct equivalents)...

I think having SC! boxes with the monopose/starterlike plastics is a bad thing, because it disallows people from buying multiples to make their armies cheaper.

I could accept it with the excuse of "but they are doing it to make the boxes cheaper, so they catter more for new players" if that were true. Yes, the Stormcast and the Bloodbound boxes that feature the miniatures from the first AoS starter are still at the old cost of 65€. But the new ones from Shadowspear for example are at 80€, the higher of the new SC! cost.

And I doubt this new Slaves to Darkness SC! will cost 65€. It will probably be also 80€.

I can see GW's angle, esp for AoS. There's a couple of AoS factions which have so few models you basically only buy start collecting sets for them. Flesheaters its pretty much ALL in the start collecting set and GW even made it more practical by giving them the ability to take an army of all dragon/gast models.

So I can see where their logic comes from that the start collecting set is supposed to be a starting point that offers discount to get in the door, then GW cleans up profits from sales of model sets through regular channels.


The only real issues are going to be when they've got it like Slaves appears to be; where they've got two different and distinct styles of model. Hopefully that's just a short term thing and in the new year we'll see new knight and warrior kits released for Slaves.

In theory for expanding the core basic units it shouldn't be a huge problem. Even with variable parts most GW kits have a limited range of practical poses of weapons and heads and such. With many having quite a fixed leg and torso construction. So variable parts is never going to give infinite variety (at least in a practical sense).

 Galas wrote:
I think having SC! boxes with the monopose/starterlike plastics is a bad thing, because it disallows people from buying multiples to make their armies cheaper.

I could accept it with the excuse of "but they are doing it to make the boxes cheaper, so they catter more for new players" if that were true.

Why? Having new poses is good, and you can always grab a box of multipose unit to mix and match/customize them to produce something new, at least if my experience with primaris is any indication. The price issue is entirely different matter, caused by price raises of SC kits in March, and would have been a problem no matter if the SC had monopose or normal kits...

I don't disagree with having monopose and then multipart. Thats why I always buy the monopose options at least once , to add variety to my forces.

But as you say, money is the problem here. Because they are charging you the same for less options. Multipart kits are not only a matter of more options in poses but also, normally, in weapons, etc...

Multipart no longer means multipose though. Take Namarti thralls and reavers, one of the newer kits. Just about the only thing you can pick and mix are heads. Besides that you get to pick between two weapons for about 5 out of the 10 models in the box, so if you have 20 models, you've exhausted all the posing options.

Danny76 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
The next preview will most likely be at the New Year Open Day on January 4th.

I’m sure I’d seen them mention that the 40k open day was the last preview of the year.
Though I suppose that could have meant last 40k one and not overall, but..

You do realize that the New Year Open Day occurs next year?