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Hi, I'm about to go to a (NOVA) tourney and it's my first time fielding custodes. I have a bunch of custodes questions, but first...

The list:


The tactics:


Questions:
1. Is Victor of the Blood Games worthwhile on my lead warlord biker(s), or should I just save a point or two for command rerolls? An opponent of mine took VotBG on his lead 3++ warlord in a recent tournament game - I took him out with hellfire shells and flakk missiles, bypassing both. In what matchups should I go for VotBG?
2. Suppose you're facing this with a custodes biker spam list. Say with a knight and IG Cp battery. How do you deal with my list? What do you fear and target early?
3. What should I NOT assault with my bikers? What has been capable of withstanding your bikers' assault?
4. How have your shield-captains fared against demon princes?
5. Do your opponents tend to fear biker captains? Most of the point is to draw fire away from my devastators, mortars, and NOVA engineer units, and then tank all day.
6. This will be my first fight fielding custodians. What should I watch for as a newb?
7. Other pointers?

Celerior wrote:
Questions:
1. Is Victor of the Blood Games worthwhile on my lead warlord biker(s), or should I just save a point or two for command rerolls? An opponent of mine took VotBG on his lead 3++ warlord in a recent tournament game - I took him out with hellfire shells and flakk missiles, bypassing both. In what matchups should I go for VotBG?
2. Suppose you're facing this with a custodes biker spam list. Say with a knight and IG Cp battery. How do you deal with my list? What do you fear and target early?
3. What should I NOT assault with my bikers? What has been capable of withstanding your bikers' assault?
4. How have your shield-captains fared against demon princes?
5. Do your opponents tend to fear biker captains? Most of the point is to draw fire away from my devastators, mortars, and NOVA engineer units, and then tank all day.
6. This will be my first fight fielding custodians. What should I watch for as a newb?
7. Other pointers?

1. VotBG is a must if you want your warlord to go tanking the enemy all day (though be careful of those times when you send your shield captain to tank everything but immediately go down because you rolled triple 1 for saves and rolled a 1 and a 2 for CP re-roll and VotBG: this is something that did happen to me).
2. The Mortar teams, the Devastators and the Captains would be my targets if I went up against you; keep your Devastators and Mortars hunkered down in the back field and use your Captains to draw people away from parts of the board or possibly to scare them away from an area (depending on how aggressive your opponent is).
3. Anything that is Super tough, see: Primarchs, DeathGuard, Nurgle, Imperial Knights, etc. Don't let your bikes get bogged down, try to charge things you know you'll kill in a round or 2 (unless your charging a tank to stop it from shooting).
4. Normal DPs can be taken by a Captain or 2 but be careful of Tzeentch/DeathGuard DPs because they'll tank a Captain for a few turns.
5. Everyone fears Bike Captains but some people react to that fear by throwing everything they have at them and others try to bog the Captains down and focus on something else.
6. Watch out for mortal wound factories like Psyker armies and DeathGuard as well as Knight armies that can ignore wounds, squeeze you to death and explode in your face. Mortal wounds are the death of a Custodes army.
7. Be the most agressive with your warlord since it doesn't matter if he dies.

Good luck!

1. Is Victor of the Blood Games worthwhile on my lead warlord biker(s), or should I just save a point or two for command rerolls? An opponent of mine took VotBG on his lead 3++ warlord in a recent tournament game - I took him out with hellfire shells and flakk missiles, bypassing both. In what matchups should I go for VotBG?

It is worth if you have a good number of command points to start the game after you have paid for relics and pre-game stratagems (say at least 8).

2. Suppose you're facing this with a custodes biker spam list. Say with a knight and IG Cp battery. How do you deal with my list? What do you fear and target early?

Focus on killing the Knight first but don't unnecessarily suicide units to do so.

3a. What should I NOT assault with my bikers?

Super killy overwatch mostly like Yhvarra and Knight super flamer.


3b. What has been capable of withstanding your bikers' assault?

Knights and some vehicles mostly.


4. How have your shield-captains fared against demon princes?

Make sure you charge them - use Stooping Dive if you have to.

5. Do your opponents tend to fear biker captains? Most of the point is to draw fire away from my devastators, mortars, and NOVA engineer units, and then tank all day.

Depends on the army really I say.

As someone that is building a Knight + bike spam army I say your main target should be the bikes.

Its going to take a lot of firepower to get the Knight down (esp if it gets a 3++ from WL+Strat) and that buys the time for all the bikes to close the distance and inflict their damage.
And runaway bike units are going to do a lot more then a Knight can do per turn.

You have a lot of CP so VotBG can be nice. I use it in matchups where I expect my captains to operate alone and draw lots of attention. Which for your list is probably every game?
If you make a Company Commander your warlord for Grand Strategist you can actually try to regain the CP spend on VotBG since it is done during deployment.

As said be careful with charging stuff like Knight and Primarchs. While bike spam armies can try to overwhelm these targets you won't have the volume of attacks for it. (a captain being almost double the cost of a normal bike but with only 1 attack more).

 Ordana wrote:
As someone that is building a Knight + bike spam army I say your main target should be the bikes.

Its going to take a lot of firepower to get the Knight down (esp if it gets a 3++ from WL+Strat) and that buys the time for all the bikes to close the distance and inflict their damage.
And runaway bike units are going to do a lot more then a Knight can do per turn.

You have a lot of CP so VotBG can be nice. I use it in matchups where I expect my captains to operate alone and draw lots of attention. Which for your list is probably every game?
If you make a Company Commander your warlord for Grand Strategist you can actually try to regain the CP spend on VotBG since it is done during deployment.

As said be careful with charging stuff like Knight and Primarchs. While bike spam armies can try to overwhelm these targets you won't have the volume of attacks for it. (a captain being almost double the cost of a normal bike but with only 1 attack more).

this BTW is why I think Bike Captains are over rated. the additional attacks normal bikes have should not be dismissed lightly.

Yeah regular bikes are definitely stronger. They’re just harder to fit into non-AC armies because a Custodes Outrider is most of your list (and a Patrol isn’t all that much cheaper).

meleti wrote:
Yeah regular bikes are definitely stronger. They’re just harder to fit into non-AC armies because a Custodes Outrider is most of your list (and a Patrol isn’t all that much cheaper).

which is honestly why I think they need to do away with supreme command detachments. 8th edition is stuck with em and I have a hunch we're not apt to see that change with 9th. but if the various tounries started saying "supreme command detachments are not accepted as valid here" it'd proably be a good thing

Could be a beta rule for matched play specifically. They aren't adverse to going in and tweaking one gameplay mode.

If GW gets rid of the supreme command detachment for matched play it’d only be a good thing. TOs can ban it as well.

What is the best mono Custodes list that doesn't spam bikes (a unit or two is ok)

Obviously not for a hyper competitive environment (most pickup games here are going for the win but there isn't the extreme hyper min maxing of guard battalions for all etc)

Min units of SS Guard? Is there value in going heavy on Allarus and splitting them or is that just entertaining jank?

Keep in mind it doesn't have to be very strong, more a thought experiment trying to make the most of a tough situation.

 Eldarain wrote:
What is the best mono Custodes list that doesn't spam bikes (a unit or two is ok)

Obviously not for a hyper competitive environment (most pickup games here are going for the win but there isn't the extreme hyper min maxing of guard battalions for all etc)

Min units of SS Guard? Is there value in going heavy on Allarus and splitting them or is that just entertaining jank?

Keep in mind it doesn't have to be very strong, more a thought experiment trying to make the most of a tough situation.

You don't need a lot of Storm Shields. I've done 3 units of 4 dudes, and that's 3 Spears and 1 Sword/Shield. It does pretty good.

 Primark G wrote:
If GW gets rid of the supreme command detachment for matched play it’d only be a good thing. TOs can ban it as well.

might be something to write GW about, as well as message the folks who manage the various tournment types.

 Eldarain wrote:
What is the best mono Custodes list that doesn't spam bikes (a unit or two is ok)

Obviously not for a hyper competitive environment (most pickup games here are going for the win but there isn't the extreme hyper min maxing of guard battalions for all etc)

Min units of SS Guard? Is there value in going heavy on Allarus and splitting them or is that just entertaining jank?

Keep in mind it doesn't have to be very strong, more a thought experiment trying to make the most of a tough situation.

A few min squads for objectives. prob 1 SS in them. A big squad to teleport and some Allarus probably. Or scrap the big squad and bring more Allarus.

I agree that supreme command detachments are pretty lame. This will be my first time fielding one.

Bike captains don't make sense next to regular bikers when it comes to damage output, but on the other hand with 7 wounds, the character rule, and a 3++, bike captains have well over twice the survivability of regular praetors.

Compared against vertus praetors, captains do less damage. But compared to other options in other codices in their roles, they're hopefully going to be worth their points. For example, suppose I'm trying to hunt down my opponent's pesky engineer rangers. Those hurricane bolters will force my opponent to spend a command point on the alaitoc stratagem, and then the other two bike captains can target a different unit, and I can throw lasguns or mortars (hitting on 6es anyway) at the first engineer unit.

I see it like this.
If you want to spend 1000+ points bring an Outrider of bikes.
If you want to spend less bring a Supreme Command of bike captains.

And yes I would be totally fine with removing the Supreme Command detachment. Its only use is to bring abusive HQ units without paying a tax of other units.

So I placed an order for an Achillus Dread yesterday, and while I was reading over the instructions online it occurred to me that it'd be pretty easy to just magentise the spear so I could run him as an Exemplar Dread if I wanted to. The Exemplar seems to be a bit forgotten-about, probably due to him lacking a model. Looks like a decent piece of kit, 210 points basic, but can take Heavy Flamers or Plasma Ejectors, as well as a Las Pulsar for a bit of anti-tank.

Is he worth it at all? 280pts gets me a Plasma Ejector and Las Pulsar for 2D3 S9 shots, but then again, I could pay 30pts more and get a twin-Illiastus Telemon.

I'd say wait for the IA book before making any rash decisions. How good are you at magnetizing?

I've already got a FW Custodes Contemptor, they have inbuilt recesses in the arm joints for sticking a magnet in, no need for drilling.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:I'd say wait for the IA book before making any rash decisions. How good are you at magnetizing?

Pretty good, I've magnetised a variety of things from Combi-Weapons to Reaver Titans.

mrhappyface wrote:I've already got a FW Custodes Contemptor, they have inbuilt recesses in the arm joints for sticking a magnet in, no need for drilling.

Even better, that's great to hear Still unsure about the Exemplar however.

 mrhappyface wrote:
I've already got a FW Custodes Contemptor, they have inbuilt recesses in the arm joints for sticking a magnet in, no need for drilling.

Thats good to know, how big are the magnets? Is the same true of the telemon?

Meatgrinder wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
I've already got a FW Custodes Contemptor, they have inbuilt recesses in the arm joints for sticking a magnet in, no need for drilling.

Thats good to know, how big are the magnets? Is the same true of the telemon?

I've used 5mm but there's space for a 6mm I reckon and, yes, the Telemon has the same spaces for magnets.

Meatgrinder wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
I've already got a FW Custodes Contemptor, they have inbuilt recesses in the arm joints for sticking a magnet in, no need for drilling.

Thats good to know, how big are the magnets? Is the same true of the telemon?

Yes there is, I put mine together using 6mm magnets last night. They've put holes slightly bigger than 6mm on the arms (where the weapon part purchased joins to the base kit above the elbow) and on the missile pod on top. However I like to magnetise my bigger humanoid models at the waist as well, so had to drill a hole into the ball joint there.

You could probably do with far smaller magnets as there's not much weight for them to bear, but 6mm fits quite conveniently.

 Valkyrie wrote:

Is he worth it at all? 280pts gets me a Plasma Ejector and Las Pulsar for 2D3 S9 shots, but then again, I could pay 30pts more and get a twin-Illiastus Telemon.

Double Iliastus Telemon is the more shooty-killy choice while being a lot more survivable. That being said, the Telemon will still go down if focused and benefits greatly from a Vexilus Praetor (carrying a Magnifica) babysitter.

Though I am playing Custodes with IG most of the time, I am starting to feel the burn out. IG as allies, being a CP farm, are simply not exciting. As such, I tried to play most games solo Custodes and it was a blast.

Seeing as CP farming may take a hit in the big FAQ, what do you guys think is a good combination for Custodes? Play them solo with their FW units? Assassins? IK? Something to spice things up without sacrificing too much of power.

 Trade_Prince wrote:
Though I am playing Custodes with IG most of the time, I am starting to feel the burn out. IG as allies, being a CP farm, are simply not exciting. As such, I tried to play most games solo Custodes and it was a blast.

Seeing as CP farming may take a hit in the big FAQ, what do you guys think is a good combination for Custodes? Play them solo with their FW units? Assassins? IK? Something to spice things up without sacrificing too much of power.

I do SoB for my CP, and b.c i like them better, sure they are double the points, but they are more fun!

I'm actually wondering if custodes and space wolves might work together alright, I don't expect it to be a power combo but could be a fun intreasting thing. Properio Redux!

For fun you can do whatever you want.

For competitive. I don't see how SW's complement Custodes. They don't provide much to mitigate Custodes weaknesses.

 Ordana wrote:
For fun you can do whatever you want.

For competitive. I don't see how SW's complement Custodes. They don't provide much to mitigate Custodes weaknesses.

yeah thats what I'm thinking, although if they don't patch choser of the slain a rune priest to escort your main force could be REALLY good.

It'd be really bloody good in a meta that has a lot of GSC and Daemons. But do you want to pay the extra points for a Rune Priest and scouts just in case you come up against one of the above mentioned?

 mrhappyface wrote:
It'd be really bloody good in a meta that has a lot of GSC and Daemons. But do you want to pay the extra points for a Rune Priest and scouts just in case you come up against one of the above mentioned?

Space Wolves scouts are elites so even worse