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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Right, but look at the leap of DG or BA or even DA from 8th, to 9th. Their effectiveness is orders of magnitude greater now. If the codex leaks are true. I don't see how a codex could make give us that sort of boost. I hate to use this analogy, but the DA/BA/DG boost was almost Kiao-kenish.


We don't need that kind of boost I think. We are already quite strong. A gentle push towards better and more interesting weapon profiles as well es some extra abilities baked into our main units is all it takes.
Though I can see custodes players being put off by the inner circle rule of the new dark angels. Permanent transhuman is just a dumb rule, but I digress.


None of these factions needed the boost either
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




I never take a weapon on a flag, but that's just me. Always a shield. That being said, I think a lot of us saw the Flag points as wrong or a flat out error when they came out. There was no way GW just outright made them free.
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I never take a weapon on a flag, but that's just me. Always a shield. That being said, I think a lot of us saw the Flag points as wrong or a flat out error when they came out. There was no way GW just outright made them free.


Only the magnifica with - 1 to hit costs points, the other 2 still appear to be free. The big price hike was actually in the base cost of the unit. Both normal vexillus and in terminator amor.

But yeah, like you said. A lot of people were sceptical that a 95point vexillus would stick.
   
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Price hike on the vexilla was expected but still stupid.

He's litterally an allarus terminator with +1 wound and a flag (that takes the place of his weapon).

How is +1 wound and the flag worth almost 40 points?

We dont even have enough infantry on the board getting buffed for the buff to make a huge difference.


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Audustum wrote:
Our statline really just needs +1W I feel. Gravis armor is infringing on our territory too much.

I've said it once and I'll say it again:

Bring swords/spears into alignment with force weapons (as they started out). So +1 S on swords, +2S on spears.

Make all weapons flat 2, but axes flat 3.

Give all Custodes +1W across the board.

That PROBABLY does it. If we still need a little push then re-roll invulnerable saves of 1 for a pure army should do it.

Just as a quality of life, our FNP needs to be made for all MW too, not just psychic phase.


I'd probably do a few more things but mostly to separate out the options a bit. I'd probably make Axes strictly superior to Spears per attack (S9 AP-3 D4 or so might be appropriate) but also give them 1-2 fewer attacks. This makes them excellent for killing Gravis, terminators, tanks, etc but more mediocre if you're trying to kill power armoed units or weaker. Something like 3 attacks with an axe or 5 with a spear on terminators seems reasonable.
   
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Don't forget the Flag has character protections.
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






So to bring this topic up a bit more and back to life - I need some advice when dealing with space wolves.
They can put out some real pressure. Bladeguards, Blood Claws, TWC in combination with Librarians, Chaplains and Judicars I find really hard to deal with.
Bladeguards are broken as is, but with exploding 6s, auto wounding hit rolls of 6 and MW on 6s are downright nasty.
Blood Claws have a fethton of attacks and can easily hide a Thunderhammer and/or Power Fist while coming down in a pod on a central objective, creating a no-go zone.
TWC with Thunderhammers are tough, fast and with 3D extremely good at dealing with non-terminators.
Combine all those factors and the quality combined with quantity just topples the quality we have.
Any general tips or units that are especially able to deal with SW?

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 Thairne wrote:
So to bring this topic up a bit more and back to life - I need some advice when dealing with space wolves.
They can put out some real pressure. Bladeguards, Blood Claws, TWC in combination with Librarians, Chaplains and Judicars I find really hard to deal with.
Bladeguards are broken as is, but with exploding 6s, auto wounding hit rolls of 6 and MW on 6s are downright nasty.
Blood Claws have a fethton of attacks and can easily hide a Thunderhammer and/or Power Fist while coming down in a pod on a central objective, creating a no-go zone.
TWC with Thunderhammers are tough, fast and with 3D extremely good at dealing with non-terminators.
Combine all those factors and the quality combined with quantity just topples the quality we have.
Any general tips or units that are especially able to deal with SW?


The answer is to just dig in. Space Wolves are more mobile so you want to pick secondaries that you can grab without moving too much or by something reliable like a deep strike (deploy Scramblers for example). Grind Them Down isn't bad either.

From there, it's less a matter of killing than holding. 5-man squads of Sword+Board will be hard to clear off objectives. Don't forget Emperor's Auspice and Arcane Genetic Alchemy work on them too.

Illiastus Accelerator Culverins are ideal for shooting most of them, on whatever platform you want to use. Venatari aren't awful but have to get too close for their pistol shooting.

Jetbike Hurricane Bolters will do wonders on the light infantry. Don't forget that Stopping Dive fights first -and he can't swing at your Jetbikes after they Dive if he also charged something-. It's an extremely powerful deterrent that hinders his mobility.

I'd need to know more about the board terrain, the mission and your lists to advise further.
   
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Well that I can provide.

My current army consists of (planning to expand ofc):
1 Shield-Captain
1 Shield-Captain in Allarus
1 Shield Captain on Dawneagle

9 Shield Guard
9 Sagittarum Guard

1 Vexilus Praetor

5 Allarus

8 Vertus Praetors

1 Telemon Dread /w 2 Arachnus, 2 Illiastus and a Caestus available

The last game was yesterday, which I won 76 to 58. Mostly because he played a bit to passively, having a suboptimal army (Doggo flyer that did 4 damage to the Telemon, then got shot down by 4 Archeotech Salvo launchers) and choosing poor secondaries.
I scored max primary, 9 pts in Assassination (all characters he had), 12 in Attrition and 12 in Engage. Pic is mid turn 1 for him, going first, but we use a lot of terrain. The entire diagnoal line from bottom right to top left was obscuring with a few gaps for shooting.

Mission was Aggressive Strike.

I was playing as Shadowkeepers:
Shield Captain in Allarus
Shield Captain on Dawneagle (WL, Superior Creation)

2x3 Sagittarum Guard /w Misericordias
2x3 Shield Guard

5 Allarus

5 Dawneagle /w Salvos

Telemon /w Cestus and Arachnus

Hurricane bolters seem kind of awful tho - even within rapid fire range, all those shots kill 4 marines on avg, less if in cover and do basically nothing against storm shields. Problems I face are the "bearing down" of TWC /w thunderhammers, eradicators, 4 dozen attacks from Blood Claws, Bladeguard veterans all buffed and protected by chaplain(s) and librarian(s). And Armour of Russ/Judiciar(s) take care of me always fighting last whereas the SW strat disabled Tanglefoot on a choice charge. Add to that autowound on 6's, MW on 6's and exploding 6's and pretty much everything just keels.
Custodes are durable, but I think the entire game I got to use my armour save once - and then only a 3+ because for some reason pistols have -1 in Assault Doctrine too
So he has the numbers, the statistics, the abilities and the board control all on his side it feels like. If he optimized his list a lil', I'd expect to be tabled turn 3, turn 4 at the latest in yesterdays game.
[Thumb - 20210213_152458.jpg]

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/14 16:09:31


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My best friend plays space wolves, so I have at least a bit of experience against them. I'm not the best player though so take my advice with a grain of salt.

In my experience a galatus dread is surprisingly good against bladeguard. He has a lot of attacks and flat 3 dmg. He is also a really bad target for them due to being -1dmg.

Venatari are another all star unit against them in my opinion. They are fast and their pistols are just perfect at dealing with interecessors or wulfen for example (just have that CP for superior firing patterns ready). I've had a lot of success with them.

Allarus terminators also can do absolute wonders against them imo. Sniping characters with the inescapable vengeance strat can be devastating against space wolves. Their axes are surprisingly good at sniping with dmg2, and don't forget that they can also benefit from the superior firing strat, essentially doubling their shots. Taking out a judiciar or a character with armor of russ this way can be crucial.

You mentioned it in your post, but it's worth repeating again: tanglefoot grenade is imo one of our best stratagems. In my first few games I sometimes forgot to use it and it would have changed the outcome of quite a lot of fights.

Other than that...basically what audustum said. Shield guard are arguably our best unit right now for their ability to be really difficult to shift from objectives. Though in my opionion space wolves definitely have the tools to do it.

I am not a fan of the illiastus accelerator culverin on the telemon though. Not because it's bad, but the arachnus storm cannon is perfect for dealing with eradicators. Flat 3 dmg and with -4 AP they won't get a save either. I'd prefer saggitarum and/or venatari for 2dmg shooting.

My last advice is include trajann if you can make room for him. Not because he is particularly good against space wolves, but he is worth it simply due to his moment shackle. Getting a free stratagem once per game is just so good, especially considering how powerful our stratagems are. His re rolls are nice too.

Hope that helps.

Edit: Aquilon terminators are also absolute powerhouses and they offer some nice flexibility....going up against a lot of gravis stuff or blade guards? Invest in the 3dmg adrathic destructors. Their 2dmg fists are very good against marines as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/14 17:29:03


 
   
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 Thairne wrote:
Well that I can provide.

My current army consists of (planning to expand ofc):
1 Shield-Captain
1 Shield-Captain in Allarus
1 Shield Captain on Dawneagle

9 Shield Guard
9 Sagittarum Guard

1 Vexilus Praetor

5 Allarus

8 Vertus Praetors

1 Telemon Dread /w 2 Arachnus, 2 Illiastus and a Caestus available

The last game was yesterday, which I won 76 to 58. Mostly because he played a bit to passively, having a suboptimal army (Doggo flyer that did 4 damage to the Telemon, then got shot down by 4 Archeotech Salvo launchers) and choosing poor secondaries.
I scored max primary, 9 pts in Assassination (all characters he had), 12 in Attrition and 12 in Engage. Pic is mid turn 1 for him, going first, but we use a lot of terrain. The entire diagnoal line from bottom right to top left was obscuring with a few gaps for shooting.

Mission was Aggressive Strike.

I was playing as Shadowkeepers:
Shield Captain in Allarus
Shield Captain on Dawneagle (WL, Superior Creation)

2x3 Sagittarum Guard /w Misericordias
2x3 Shield Guard

5 Allarus

5 Dawneagle /w Salvos

Telemon /w Cestus and Arachnus

Hurricane bolters seem kind of awful tho - even within rapid fire range, all those shots kill 4 marines on avg, less if in cover and do basically nothing against storm shields. Problems I face are the "bearing down" of TWC /w thunderhammers, eradicators, 4 dozen attacks from Blood Claws, Bladeguard veterans all buffed and protected by chaplain(s) and librarian(s). And Armour of Russ/Judiciar(s) take care of me always fighting last whereas the SW strat disabled Tanglefoot on a choice charge. Add to that autowound on 6's, MW on 6's and exploding 6's and pretty much everything just keels.
Custodes are durable, but I think the entire game I got to use my armour save once - and then only a 3+ because for some reason pistols have -1 in Assault Doctrine too
So he has the numbers, the statistics, the abilities and the board control all on his side it feels like. If he optimized his list a lil', I'd expect to be tabled turn 3, turn 4 at the latest in yesterdays game.


You've got some good terrain. Make sure some of it is Difficult so he gets -2 to Move and Charge. What I can see though, indicates that lots of GT 2020 missions will have objectives in cover. You should be able to take something like:

Grind Them Down
Deploy Scramblers
Linebreaker

And get some serious points up.

You're gonna want to hang back. Missions where you score 5 points for 1 objective and 2 for 10 are ideal for you. Then you don't have to expand far. Remember, you only need one turn of 15 (and the rest 10's) to max Primary. This should also give you some comfort, it means that if your opponent racks up 15's all but one turn and you only get one turn of 15, you're tied on primary. His extra points don't carry over.

With shooting and hanging back, you should get Grind Them Down easily the first two rounds. Then it's more of a fight. Remember to just slow him the heck down. Tanglefoot him in his movement phase' AND charge phase (or drain his CP by forcing him to try and stop it constantly). Use the Jetbikes as counter chargers only. It doesn't matter if they fight last -if he can't swing at them-.

Use the Allarus to (unit and HQ) to score Linebreaker and Deploy Scramblers. Remember, the goal is to get points more then kills. Don't deep strike them aiming for a charge. Whip as far back and out of the way in his deployment zone as you can. Deploy Scramblers should be an auto 10 points for you unless he holds a lot of screening back. Linebreaker gets you 4 points for every round those units stay back there (and he'll have to turn his more vicious units around, hopefully, to come back and stop you from gaining those points). These units can also be used to (SAFELY) snag a homefield objective in T4 or T5 to get you the 15 you need to max.

Hurricanes don't do alot to Storm Shields but nothing does, it's an invuln. The idea is to just beat the whole thing down with volume of fire (how you deal with any good invuln unless you can spam MW). Don't risk getting the Jetbikes charged to shoot though. The name of the game is delay, delay, delay. Remember, he doesn't auto-win even if you get tabled. You want to just drag it out as much as you can and get points.

Following all of this, it wouldn't be unusual for you to consistently get:
45 primary
10 for painted
10 for Scramblers
8 for Linebreaker
12 for Grind Them Down

Netting you an average 85 points for the match which places good odds to win.

One thing to consider is to bring a Culexus Assassin yo counteract the Armor of Russ/Judiciars. The Culexus has a fight last aura that hits every enemy in range. If you're all dropped to last, it'll return to alternating activation.
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






That is some absolutely brilliant advice.
I'll have to read that twice or thrice more to actually commit it to memory, but that is pretty much exactly what I was looking/hoping for!

I didnt even think of half those options you presented me with - especially the Culexus, which I own, is something that never even crossed my mind.

Also, big thanks to Tiberias above, which I didnt notice at first
Having Trajan to get a Stooping Dive in... I can see the merit.
I've also eyed the Gallatus... The additional -1 to hit in melee makes him quite a breaker, at least for the cost. But since an Achillus and a Gallatus are on my to-buy list anyway, that is just more reason to get one

I'll modify my list accordingly.
Not that much can change, but I'm thinking:

1 Culexus

1 SC Allarus
1 SC Dawneagle (WL, Superior Creation, Strategic Mastermind)

1x4 Shield Guard
1x3 Shield Guard
1x3 Sagittarum

5 Allarus

5 Vertus Praetors /w Hurricane Bolters

Telemon /w Arachnus (points shook out that way, also some AT fire cant hurt - plus these, as said, destroy Gravis).

I dont intent do spend any more CP on pregame-strats since I feel I will need every CP I can get my hands on, especially with abundant tanglefooting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/14 20:00:03


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I know this isn't "popular" but I've seen a pack of eversor Assassins' drop ruin a Wolf player's day several times. That Bio-meltdown can wreck an a character's day.
   
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Mysterious Techpriest






That is a rather low chance tho.
You need to get in combat, die, roll a 4+ for D3 MW - chances for 5+ wounds is rather small. Fighting last/alternating and having Stooping Dive in our opponents charge phase is VERY hard on your CP, but 5 jetbikes/Allarus can kill characters a bit more reliably

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Thairne wrote:That is some absolutely brilliant advice.
I'll have to read that twice or thrice more to actually commit it to memory, but that is pretty much exactly what I was looking/hoping for!

I didnt even think of half those options you presented me with - especially the Culexus, which I own, is something that never even crossed my mind.

Also, big thanks to Tiberias above, which I didnt notice at first
Having Trajan to get a Stooping Dive in... I can see the merit.
I've also eyed the Gallatus... The additional -1 to hit in melee makes him quite a breaker, at least for the cost. But since an Achillus and a Gallatus are on my to-buy list anyway, that is just more reason to get one

I'll modify my list accordingly.
Not that much can change, but I'm thinking:

1 Culexus

1 SC Allarus
1 SC Dawneagle (WL, Superior Creation, Strategic Mastermind)

1x4 Shield Guard
1x3 Shield Guard
1x3 Sagittarum

5 Allarus

5 Vertus Praetors /w Hurricane Bolters

Telemon /w Arachnus (points shook out that way, also some AT fire cant hurt - plus these, as said, destroy Gravis).

I dont intent do spend any more CP on pregame-strats since I feel I will need every CP I can get my hands on, especially with abundant tanglefooting.


Looks like a nice list. What shield host are you going to play with it? Btw I very much agree with you that spending pre-game CP is somewhat tricky. We have amazing pre-game strats, but not having enough CP left during a game for the likes of emperors auspice or superior firing patterns left can be really bad.

I'd like to hear afterwards how the culexus worked out for you.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:I know this isn't "popular" but I've seen a pack of eversor Assassins' drop ruin a Wolf player's day several times. That Bio-meltdown can wreck an a character's day.


As much as I like assassins and the eversor in particular, that plan is not very effective imo. You need multiple of them, they need to make their charges and then they are going to be fighting a judiciar and/or a character with armor of russ which makes them fight last anyway. And when they die it's a question of whether they even explode and whether they even do enough mortal wounds.

Edit: @Thairne: regarding your list I forgot to say, depending on how shooty the space wolves list is going to be (eradicators for example), a vexillus praetor with magnifica might be worth considering. He got more expensive again (which was to be expected) I know, but I think the -1 to hit can still be very valuable.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/16 10:25:15


 
   
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Current plan is to go again with Shadowkeepers.
The -1S strat is imo one of the best defensive ones we have - it reduces Bladeguard against infantry, Melta and Thunderhammers quite nice when targeting dreads.

Next game gonna take a while naturally, I might even have more models available (Galatus/Pallas mostly). I'm mostly worried about the CP cost of the Soul Horror strat to just counter a basically free relic, but we'll see.

So far the list he brought is not shooty at all - single unit if devastators and a eradicator squad with standard rifles were all noticable shooting. Against the SoB however...

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Ok, so ive been through many test games and I think i've decided to go with the shadowkeepers list for the dallas open.
Spoiler:
+++ Shadowkeepers 2k (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [100 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Shield Host: Shadowkeepers

+ Stratagems +

Open the Vaults: Open the Vaults: 1 Extra Relic

+ Agents of the Imperium +

Inquisitor: 4) Mental Interrogation, Blackshroud, Combi-melta, Force sword, Ordo Minoris, Psyker, Puritan, Stratagem: Arbiter of the Emperor's Will

+ HQ +

Captain-General Trajann Valoris

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike: Auric Aquilas, Captain-Commander, Hurricane Bolter, Indomitable Constitution, Superior Creation, Warlord

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield

Custodian Guard Squad
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield

Sagittarum Custodians: Sagittarum Custodian, Sagittarum Custodian, Sagittarum Custodian
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia

+ Heavy Support +

Caladius Grav-tank: Twin Arachnus Heavy Blaze Cannon

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought: Eternal Penitent
. Telemon Caestus
. Telemon Caestus

+ Flyer +

Ares Gunship

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Now, I know what your thinking; A double fist telemon?
Well, i've played with the storm cannon version as a backfield holder and its fine that way, but i really find myself lacking the models or ability to push into my opponents table edge with just the ares and bike captain, so I think my deep striking double fist telemon is gonna give me the push. All its costing me is for my sag guard to hang back (mabey with the 3 man shield guard squad if I think my opponents can get to them fast). The addition of the inquisitor is gonna give me a reliable CP generation method and a deny, not to mention the Cyclonic torpedo strat for turn 1 nastiness.

Engage is almost guarenteed 3 points a turn with the ares, telemon, and biker captain. After that i dont have any easy secondaries, but kill secondaries can be achieved. If no good kill secondaries I can go for mission specifics, linebreaker, or domination depending on opponent. Trajann, the 4 man squad, and the tank can go up one flank, while biker captain and ares blaze up the other side.

Biggest factor is I own all these models and they look good on the tabletop.

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Hey folks, new collector here.
As i am in my early steps of my collection, i wish to know what FW dread i should get for a general porpuse use for casual and drop-in games?

I kinda want all 3 versions but my wallet cant allow that( shipping, import tax, and VAT on top of the salesprice), so i have to limit myself to just one.
And yes, this is more me beeing a dread fan above anything else, as the reason to why i want a FW dread.


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 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Hey folks, new collector here.
As i am in my early steps of my collection, i wish to know what FW dread i should get for a general porpuse use for casual and drop-in games?

I kinda want all 3 versions but my wallet cant allow that( shipping, import tax, and VAT on top of the salesprice), so i have to limit myself to just one.
And yes, this is more me beeing a dread fan above anything else, as the reason to why i want a FW dread.



Ok, good question. I own and play all three. The best FW dread is still the telemon. Both the achillus and the galatus can do good work also. The galatus is more suited against multi-wound heavy infantry and the achillus is great against vehicles.

Now which one should you pick. Imo that depends. Generally I would say pick the one which you like most visually, but from a gaming and list building perspective I strongly believe that you can't go wrong with a telemon.
Regarding telemon loadouts, all of them can work, even double fist, but arachnus storm cannon+fist is arguably the most versatile option.

If you have never assembled FW models and especially FW dreadnoughts, be aware that you are going to have to work with super glue, which means you kinda have to know beforehand which pose you want for your dreadnought.
I have built and painted both a galatus and a telemon and my best advice is to pre assemble the model with something that can be easily removed later like blutack until you find a pose you like, then take a fine sharpie and draw a line over some joints which are made up from multiple parts so you can later recreate the pose when you remove the blutack and glue everything in place with super glue. Also wash each part of the model first in soapy water to remove remnants of release agent from the casting process to ensure your primer adheres to the model properly.

Edit:
I'm also a big advocate for accountability when giving advice on how to build such expensive models, so here are my examples to give you an impression and show that my advice actually gives decent results:

Spoiler:







One last thing: if you are into that, the weapon options for the telemon are very easy to magnetise. You need disc shaped neodym magnets with 2mm height and 6mm diameter.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/02/22 12:13:52


 
   
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Thank you.

Not to worry about the modeling, this aint the first resin show i am running


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Can anyone find a clear example of how our Tangle foot grenades work now with Deathguard's IA? It seems they can just charge right through our tanglefoots. Also, I am betting this invalidates things like Quake Cannons and other charge stopping attacks. Oh well, I wanted to be in melee anyway, if you are dumb enough to charge me, then prepare to reap the whirlwind of my many random damage attacks!
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can anyone find a clear example of how our Tangle foot grenades work now with Deathguard's IA? It seems they can just charge right through our tanglefoots. Also, I am betting this invalidates things like Quake Cannons and other charge stopping attacks. Oh well, I wanted to be in melee anyway, if you are dumb enough to charge me, then prepare to reap the whirlwind of my many random damage attacks!


tanglefoot does not work in the movement phase but it does work in the charge phase. Tanglefoot's wording says that it only modifies the charged distance not the charge roll. GW's fact says that difficult terrain is not stopped by inoxerable advance because it affects the move distance not the move characteristic. since tango foot is affecting distance in the charge phase it's just like difficult terrain and slows the charge down.
   
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I thought the wording of the new FAQ says it applies to "All movement altering affects, in every phase". Charges include movement, a few people over in the DG sub say that RAW Tanglefoot no longer works against IA, but no one has clear proof. I'll drop a thread in YMDC....sorry for wrong thread.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/24 17:33:34


 
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I thought the wording of the new FAQ says it applies to "All movement altering affects, in every phase". Charges include movement, a few people over in the DG sub say that RAW Tanglefoot no longer works against IA, but no one has clear proof. I'll drop a thread in YMDC....sorry for wrong thread.



So this is not the FAQ. The FAQ that was dropped the day before yesterday explicitly says that in oxfordable advance does not stop difficult terrain. it goes further and says that the reason it does not stop difficult terrain is because difficult terrain does not affect the movement characteristic but instead affects the move distance.


If you look at the wording of tanglefoot, when tanglefoot is used in the movement phase it modifies the move characteristic. This means inoxerable advance will stop it. when tanglefoot is used in the charge phase it does not modify the charge roll. The stratagem specifically says it modifies the charge distance. Since it is just modifying the distance, just like difficult terrain modifies the move distance, it's still applies. The Death Guard player saying that are wrong.
   
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Thank you. I am trying to be less hyperbolic, and I was really disheartened by this apparent change.
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Thank you. I am trying to be less hyperbolic, and I was really disheartened by this apparent change.


Oh I thought you were fine. It's definitely a confusing situation we're in.

Inexorable Advance: "...If this unit has the INFANTRY keyword, it can ignore any or all modifiers to its Move characteristic, Advance rolls and charge rolls."

Tanglefoot Grenade: "...Your opponent must reduce that unit’s Movement characteristic or charge distance by the result until the end of the phase. Units with the FLY keyword are not affected."

Difficult Ground: "If a unit makes a Normal Move, Advances, Falls Back or it makes a charge move, and any of its models wish to move over any part of this terrain feature, subtract 2" from the maximum distance that every model in that unit can move..."

The distinction in the charge phase is the fact that Tanglefoot modifies the charge distance, not the charge roll. Maybe GW will change it when we get a Codex, but for now it should work fine on IA for the same reason Difficult Ground works.
   
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So I just ran this list up against necrons today and it smashed them:

Spoiler:
+++ The Watch (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [103 PL, 2CP, 2,000pts] +++

++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Shield Host: Solar Watch

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike: Auric Aquilas, Captain-Commander, Hurricane Bolter, Indomitable Constitution, Superior Creation, Warlord

+ Elites +

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought: Eternal Penitent, 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought: Eternal Penitent, 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought: Eternal Penitent, 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought: Eternal Penitent

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought: Eternal Penitent

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought: Eternal Penitent

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought: Arachnus Storm Cannon, Arachnus Storm Cannon

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought: Arachnus Storm Cannon, Arachnus Storm Cannon

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)




They had Silent king, 2 squads sword and board lych guard at 5 strong, a big squad of lychguard with spears, 2 full squads of canoptek spiders, a squad of 6 tomb blades, a Triarch stalker, a technomancer, and a small squad of the fast moving lychguard (forgot the name).

I went first and he failed a big charge when he ported into my backfield so that went all in my favor. At the end of the game I had only lost 1 galatus, my vertus praetors, and my bike captain to his army being tabled.

The -1 damage on almost the whole army was pretty harsh for him (ashamed not everyone gets it). He told me he was kinda expecting terminators, and yes his army would have probably mulched them.

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A Protoss colony world

Hey guys, silly noob question here. I've lately been considering starting a Custodes army as I could start one cheaper than a lot of other armies, outside of Forge World stuff. The question is, is it possible to make a competitive Custodes list (or at least semi-competitive) without taking any of the super expensive (in terms of $$$) Forge World units? Playing around in Battlescribe, I reasoned that I could make an army by combining the one Custodes set I own (from the Burning of Prospero box) with 2 more boxes of Guardians, 2 boxes of Allarus Custodians, and 3 boxes of Jetbikes, and that it wouldn't break the bank for me to do so. I'd probably also pick up Trajann Valoris just so I have a few options. Plus the Codex and whatever PA book has the subfaction rules in it. Would that be any good, or am I likely to just be a punching bag if I were not to pick up any Forge World stuff?

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 25 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
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You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
 
   
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You could run this:

Spoiler:
+++ Footstodes (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [92 PL, 9CP, 1,992pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Shield Host: Dread Host

+ Stratagems +

Open the Vaults: Open the Vaults: 1 Extra Relic

+ Agents of the Imperium +

Vindicare Assassin

+ HQ +

Captain-General Trajann Valoris

Shield-Captain: All-seeing Annihilator, Auric Shackles, Captain-Commander, Inspirational Exemplar, Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield, Warlord

Shield-Captain: Impregnable Mind, Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield, Ten Thousand Heroes

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield

Custodian Guard Squad
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield

Custodian Guard Squad
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield

Custodian Guard Squad
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield

Custodian Guard Squad
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield

+ Elites +

Prosecutors: Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun, 4x Psyk-Out Grenades

Vexilus Praetor in Allarus Terminator Armor: Eagle's Eye, Misericordia, Vexilla Imperius

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)




No forgeworld models, highly competitive if played correctly. Alot of people rag on the vindicare, but he gives you a very punchy hidden threat for characters.
You take banners and domination almost every game. Third option would be up in the air depending on opponent. Play super cagey and hide as much as possible while still running up onto objectives.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/05 04:48:38


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 Eihnlazer wrote:
So I just ran this list up against necrons today and it smashed them:

Spoiler:
+++ The Watch (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [103 PL, 2CP, 2,000pts] +++

++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Shield Host: Solar Watch

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike: Auric Aquilas, Captain-Commander, Hurricane Bolter, Indomitable Constitution, Superior Creation, Warlord

+ Elites +

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought: Eternal Penitent, 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought: Eternal Penitent, 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought: Eternal Penitent, 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought: Eternal Penitent

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought: Eternal Penitent

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought: Eternal Penitent

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought: Arachnus Storm Cannon, Arachnus Storm Cannon

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought: Arachnus Storm Cannon, Arachnus Storm Cannon

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)




They had Silent king, 2 squads sword and board lych guard at 5 strong, a big squad of lychguard with spears, 2 full squads of canoptek spiders, a squad of 6 tomb blades, a Triarch stalker, a technomancer, and a small squad of the fast moving lychguard (forgot the name).

I went first and he failed a big charge when he ported into my backfield so that went all in my favor. At the end of the game I had only lost 1 galatus, my vertus praetors, and my bike captain to his army being tabled.

The -1 damage on almost the whole army was pretty harsh for him (ashamed not everyone gets it). He told me he was kinda expecting terminators, and yes his army would have probably mulched them.


I dont' want to take anything away from but you this matchup was highly stacked against the necrons player. He had basically no chance. I hope he is not pissed at you ^^
   
 
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