Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

You're spot on about their demise - though I don't think we'll ever know their sales volumes for sure.

But I can only point to Kharadron Overlords. They're very nearly 40k in their style and approach. Just change the solid shot magic weapons to laser or plasma based.

So I'm now wondering if the Squat question is no longer 'if', but very much when.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So I'm now wondering if the Squat question is no longer 'if', but very much when.

That there is a massive shift. First Adeptus Titanicus. Now, Squats. 2018 seems like all my Christmases will come at once!

Did someone in this thread seriously and unironically say they'd never bring back Squats because it would require a massive Retcon?

... I mean... You have seen the Primaris Release, yes?

 zedmeister wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So I'm now wondering if the Squat question is no longer 'if', but very much when.

That there is a massive shift. First Adeptus Titanicus. Now, Squats. 2018 seems like all my Christmases will come at once!

Might be later than this year, but the Kharadron, and the reception thereof, really has me thinking they'll be able to do Squats justice.

Because let's be honest. Epic Squats were excellent. 40k Squats, much more limited, largely by their casting options at the time.

But in the age of 40k scale Imperial Knights, Gorkanauts and assorted other large, impressive plastic kits - the sky seems the limit.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Did someone in this thread seriously and unironically say they'd never bring back Squats because it would require a massive Retcon?

... I mean... You have seen the Primaris Release, yes?

The primaris still isn't the same as "this group of abhumans are suddenly no longer near extinct and have the ability to field in force with power armor and heavy vehicles with no interference from the administratum or the admech because reasons"
The primaris sort of had a plausible reason for existing. Not so much of a retcon than a "this guy you never heard of was in his basement for the last 10,000 years making super soldiers" sort of thing, which is still dumb but passable. Its still not great, but better than centurions, which was quite literally "suddenly, marine matroskas! They've been around since 38k, honest", or necrons which had a massive and sudden tonal shift in their background.
Retcons overall are pretty gakky writing. Just because its for something you like doesn't make it good.

I think the biggest reason for not getting a Squat army is that GW can't copyright 'Squat'and I can't think of any seudo-latin name they could come up with to call the army.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Because let's be honest. Epic Squats were excellent. 40k Squats, much more limited, largely by their casting options at the time.

But in the age of 40k scale Imperial Knights, Gorkanauts and assorted other large, impressive plastic kits - the sky seems the limit.

I had a colossal Squat army for Epic. They were excellent to play with. They were small in number, tough but stupidly hard to break. And that's before we get to the Cyclops, Colossus, Overlords, etc.

As for 40k, I want my Gyrocopter!

Charax wrote:


Personally I'd go the grudge-driven nomads route, emerging from the warp hunting their ancient foes. I would have had Baal saved not by the Primaris marines, but by a vengeful fleet of Squats emerging from the Maledictum to annihilate the Tyranids in retaliation for the destruction of the Homeworlds. Too late to do that now, of course, but that would have been a crazy awesome way to reintroduce them.

Heh, that actually sounds plausible. As long as they are an independent force and not under the Imperium, and its clear they have to make do with scavenged and jury rigged equipment to reflect the loss of their production capabilities.
Like, a crude looking suit of power armor that still works fine because they are really good at making it, it just looks makeshift.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:
I think the biggest reason for not getting a Squat army is that GW can't copyright 'Squat'and I can't think of any seudo-latin name they could come up with to call the army.

Upcoming release : codex Skwats
Hey, it worked for AoS.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Charax wrote:


Personally I'd go the grudge-driven nomads route, emerging from the warp hunting their ancient foes. I would have had Baal saved not by the Primaris marines, but by a vengeful fleet of Squats emerging from the Maledictum to annihilate the Tyranids in retaliation for the destruction of the Homeworlds. Too late to do that now, of course, but that would have been a crazy awesome way to reintroduce them.

Heh, that actually sounds plausible. As long as they are an independent force and not under the Imperium, and its clear they have to make do with scavenged and jury rigged equipment to reflect the loss of their production capabilities.
Like, a crude looking suit of power armor that still works fine, it just looks makeshift.

It'd dovetail with the Demiurg background too - nomad miners. I can see the Squats fracturing after the attacks. Some nomads drifted towards the Tau specialising in deep space mining, others become roving marauders and mercenaries used patched up and scavenged equipment.

Aren't pre-primaris marines the new squats?

 zedmeister wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Charax wrote:


Personally I'd go the grudge-driven nomads route, emerging from the warp hunting their ancient foes. I would have had Baal saved not by the Primaris marines, but by a vengeful fleet of Squats emerging from the Maledictum to annihilate the Tyranids in retaliation for the destruction of the Homeworlds. Too late to do that now, of course, but that would have been a crazy awesome way to reintroduce them.

Heh, that actually sounds plausible. As long as they are an independent force and not under the Imperium, and its clear they have to make do with scavenged and jury rigged equipment to reflect the loss of their production capabilities.
Like, a crude looking suit of power armor that still works fine, it just looks makeshift.

It'd dovetail with the Demiurg background too - nomad miners. I can see the Squats fracturing after the attacks. Some nomads drifted towards the Tau specialising in deep space mining, others become roving marauders and mercenaries used patched up and scavenged equipment.

Oh yeah, It would be interesting if the Demiurg was really the Tau word for Squats, and they broke off from the Imperium after the loss of their worlds and reclaimed their independence.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
I mean... You have seen the Primaris Release, yes?

Primaris are not retcons. They're an evolution of existing fluff. If you want to talk about retcons, Necrons going from a cool iteration of Lovercaft's cosmic horror to Tomb Kings in space would be more appropriate as an example.

Not that it matters. If GW wants Squats back in 40k, they'll most likely go with Demiurg being an offshot of the original Squat species that adopted to nomadic existence after the destruction of their home world. No retcons required since we don't know the origins of Demiurg and we have no "exit story" for the Squats so connecting the two would be trivial.

It would also save us from having an army called Squats.

I mean, come on.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
I mean... You have seen the Primaris Release, yes?

Primaris are not retcons. They're an evolution of existing fluff. If you want to talk about retcons, Necrons going from a cool iteration of Lovercaft's cosmic horror to Tomb Kings in space would be more appropriate as an example.

Not that it matters. If GW wants Squats back in 40k, they'll most likely go with Demiurg being an offshot of the original Squat species that adopted to nomadic existence after the destruction of their home world. No retcons required since we don't know the origins of Demiurg and we have no "exit story" for the Squats so connecting the two would be trivial.

It would also save us from having an army called Squats.

I mean, come on.

I would be fine with this. A logical and consistent evolution of the setting is always preferable to a retcon.
Also the Necron retcon was some bs. What a way to kill the army's theme and hammer in the Egypt in Space meme. I mean, necrons did have a bit of Egypt in them, but just the mortuary cult aspect. They were mostly death / grave theme rather than Egyptian.

Demiurg are aliens. Squats are abhumans.

There is a difference between them... much in the same way that Tau aren't the same as humans.

There is also lots of old-school fluff for the Squats, whereas Demiurg only have a smattering of information (and most of that was from BFG).

Talking to Andy Hoare (of GW), he mentioned that the general consensus in the design studio was that the Demiurg were effectively 'alien rock people'... just because they are a short race, doesn't make them Squats.

 Inso wrote:
Demiurg are aliens. Squats are abhumans.

There is a difference between them... much in the same way that Tau aren't the same as humans.

There is also lots of old-school fluff for the Squats, whereas Demiurg only have a smattering of information (and most of that was from BFG).

Talking to Andy Hoare (of GW), he mentioned that the general consensus in the design studio was that the Demiurg were effectively 'alien rock people'... just because they are a short race, doesn't make them Squats.

Huh, I thought it wasn't confirmed in the fluff they are aliens. Ah well, was just an idea.
I guess one possible way to connect Demiurg with squats is to say that the warp mutated the squats into rock people due to them spending so much time travelling thanks to not having a homeworld anymore.

KHARDON Overlords sold amazingly, well above there expectations. I mean not just a little bit but enough to get a Monty Burns style "Exxxccelent" out of the board.

After that it went from an if till a when the Squats return. I personally believe we ill see a Squat by another name force long before SoB get a release.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Did someone in this thread seriously and unironically say they'd never bring back Squats because it would require a massive Retcon?

... I mean... You have seen the Primaris Release, yes?

The primaris still isn't the same as "this group of abhumans are suddenly no longer near extinct and have the ability to field in force with power armor and heavy vehicles with no interference from the administratum or the admech because reasons"
The primaris sort of had a plausible reason for existing. Not so much of a retcon than a "this guy you never heard of was in his basement for the last 10,000 years making super soldiers" sort of thing, which is still dumb but passable. Its still not great, but better than centurions, which was quite literally "suddenly, marine matroskas! They've been around since 38k, honest", or necrons which had a massive and sudden tonal shift in their background.
Retcons overall are pretty gakky writing. Just because its for something you like doesn't make it good.

What does "near extinct" mean, in the context of a civilisation spanning dozens of worlds? After all, there's fewer than 10,000 Adeptus Custodes, and they get a book to themselves. Or Blood Angels and Dark Angels, with about 1,000 warriors in total. There can be millions of Squats and they'd still be "nearly extinct". That wasn't the reason they got rid of Squats - Jervis, Rick and Andy didn't decide one day that "well, I know people like the Squats, but we've decided to make them extinct, so no more army, sorry" - it was the excuse given after the fact to shut the whingers up; "what happened to the Squats?" "Eaten, sorry". If they want to bring back Squats, they'll come up with a new excuse. Yarrick fighting Ghazgkull on Golgotha is still canon, it's just that the Squats aren't any more. That can be retconned back.

It'll never happen, but a boxed set or boardgame featuring Squats vs Red Corsairs would be a good way to introduce new Squats, new Chaos Space Marines and a new Huron Blackheart model. Have a Squat brotherhood refugee fleet come across the Macragge's Honour and capture it back from Huron's forces.

Charax wrote:
Genestealer cults were a niche army that didn't justify the effort to develop into a full force - Deathwatch:Overkill proved there was sufficient demand, they got brought back as a full army

In the case of Genestealer Cults there's a little more to it than that...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Charax wrote:
Genestealer cults were a niche army that didn't justify the effort to develop into a full force - Deathwatch:Overkill proved there was sufficient demand, they got brought back as a full army

In the case of Genestealer Cults there's a little more to it than that...

Indeed...

A single squat. Not squats.
And for necroboardgame.

Or are we also going to start decreeing that since the plastic sisters clock was five minutes to midnight that the sisters obviously get a full release in July? Because 12-5 =7?

Voss wrote:
And for necroboardgame.

It's not a board game.

Voss wrote:
Or are we also going to start decreeing that since the plastic sisters clock was five minutes to midnight that the sisters obviously get a full release in July? Because 12-5 =7?

Some people have.

 Grimgold wrote:
This is literally like McDonalds bringing back szechuan sauce for rick and morty fans. I wouldn't plan on it being anything more than that.

Squats actually ever existed as a product nostalgically demanded by fans, prior to a misinterpreted joke.

 mrhappyface wrote:
I think the biggest reason for not getting a Squat army is that GW can't copyright 'Squat'and I can't think of any seudo-latin name they could come up with to call the army.

You mean like Homo Rotundus?

 Malika2 wrote:
Catgirls?

OK, now I'm interested. If they were cute enough, I could buy an army of them!


Or not.

 Not-not-kenny wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
I think the biggest reason for not getting a Squat army is that GW can't copyright 'Squat'and I can't think of any seudo-latin name they could come up with to call the army.

You mean like Homo Rotundus?

I'm sure that'd get past marketing.

 Inso wrote:
Demiurg are aliens. Squats are abhumans.

Extensive, accelerated genetic modification undertaken to survive the loss of the reproductive base. Abhuman -> alien.

Done, next customer please.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Inso wrote:
Demiurg are aliens. Squats are abhumans.

Extensive, accelerated genetic modification undertaken to survive the loss of the reproductive base. Abhuman -> alien.

Done, next customer please.

Or warp magic. Or a disease that slowly turns them into stone.
Its entirely possible for abhumans to get mistaken for aliens at first glance if they've undergone enough physical changes.

Awesome video.

It is a shame comments are disabled on it though.

Removing the throwaway "they got eaten by the Nids" thing would be fine. It was only done as an excuse to try to shut people up, and (subject to checking the latest Nids book), I doubt it is even mentioned in anything currently in print.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Inso wrote:
Demiurg are aliens. Squats are abhumans.

Extensive, accelerated genetic modification undertaken to survive the loss of the reproductive base. Abhuman -> alien.

Done, next customer please.

Okay, and why exactly GW should bend past fluff into a pretzel to justify this in the first place?

Squats were tough, technologically advanced, proud race that agreed to stand with Imperium itself as equals. Why they would agree to play some low-ladder lackeys for upstarts with vastly inferior tech base, population, and incompatible ideology, again?