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Oh new terrain vid and article

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/12/interview-designing-the-new-sector-imperialis-terrain/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRSwDkoEEOw

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:
Not to be a conspiracists, but I'd figure the only way mandrake don't make it in would be a new kit is in the pipeline, and will be repurposed as expansion fodder.

They might even get their own Codex the way they have been writting the fluff.....

Could be interesting - maybe like Flesh Eater Courts and fo course gives them yet another excuse not to bother with anything related to SOB.

Surely you know by now that GW is releasing SoB sometime next year? Whole new plastic line. If they plan to change the army dramatically there may not be a point to putting rules in the KT publication just yet(or they felt they could omit now and add later to save time/be lazy).

Trying not to derail but we have seen one pic and nothing else - vague promises otherwise and no sign of anyhting tangible - maybe 2019, maybe not.

Then this comes out and:

Nope no Sisters because we are just doing plastic models
But what about these resins
Well not just plastics but ones that have options
Lictor?
-oh yeah those ones without options? Well we figured you wanted them and F Sisters and the others.
and the fact that conversions are hardly needed as its seems to be basic layout.
.........
Yeah well look - we got a Space Wolves box coming out - why not buy that instead?

I get that Shadespire was fixed loadout but they were all specic characters - this could have had so many options.

I asked if Imperial Guard was going to get interesting options that are actually on some of the mdoels - like Carapace armour, Cameo Cloaks etc - Telling silence.

Racerguy180 wrote:

there are already jump troops in the game, Primaris Reivers(unless they don't get grav-chute/grappling hook)

Not if they follow the 40k rules there not. Grav chutes allow Reivers to deep strike, the hooks allow them to move vertically for free.

i wonder how much movemen traversing between the floors cost. they seem about 5-6 inch level difference

Similar devices are in Necromunda

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:
Not to be a conspiracists, but I'd figure the only way mandrake don't make it in would be a new kit is in the pipeline, and will be repurposed as expansion fodder.

They might even get their own Codex the way they have been writting the fluff.....

Could be interesting - maybe like Flesh Eater Courts and fo course gives them yet another excuse not to bother with anything related to SOB.

Surely you know by now that GW is releasing SoB sometime next year? Whole new plastic line. If they plan to change the army dramatically there may not be a point to putting rules in the KT publication just yet(or they felt they could omit now and add later to save time/be lazy).

Trying not to derail but we have seen one pic and nothing else - vague promises otherwise and no sign of anyhting tangible - maybe 2019, maybe not.

2019 seems to be a promise from them, and they said that they would keep us up to date with studio previews, the first set for August, I believe that direct quote is from the Adepticon Video.

Racerguy180 wrote:
there are already jump troops in the game, Primaris Reivers(unless they don't get grav-chute/grappling hook)

Except all that does is giving them deep strike/outflank, not increased speed of true jumpers...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:
They seem to be avoiding any sort of jump or bike troops. Due the small size of the gaming area, this is probably a good idea.

What about wolf-wolves?

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Carnikang wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
Old, badly painted models, with (half of the time) illegal loadouts and pretentious names.

Yup, it's Phil Kelly all right

One thing of note, though, unless he screwed up list building again, only 4 models suggest Tyranid Warrior costs about the same as Lictor in KT, given the upper limit from WC. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't Warriors much less expensive in 40K?

What? Illegal loadouts? Explain.

Also, Warriors are cheaper in 40K because they come in squads, and are a troop choice, with lots of weapon and biomorph options. Lictors come stock and are cheap as dirt for an Elite Slot.

Back in the 4th Edition codex you could double up on ranged weapons(Devourers/Barbed Stranglers) to give them Twin-Linked, or two different ranged weapons on Warriors. Phil Kelly has a few models that date from that era, plus he’s got a few oddballs here and there that don’t really have an explanation other than “rule of cool”.

To expand on the above, it's not just that he has some models with odd or old loadouts. Everyone does. The problem is, he played some games on WC before and almost all of these lists had errors, omissions, wrong gear/models/points that as far as I could tell, did not correspond to older editions and were just a result of sloppy rule reading. I don't think he posted even one list that was entirely correct even going as far back as 4th edition - just stuck me as bizarre as other players on 40K twitch somehow managed to make legal (if often very badly choosen) lists almost all the time, even with completely new armies...

So, yeah, after third or fourth list full of mistakes I lost faith Kelly actually know the rules, and that is before considering he decided to first write borderline OP 6th edition eldar, then, after 3 years of feedback, decided that was not enough cheese and actually buffed the army across the board, with only one tiny nerf to the worst offender (which ceased to be the best not even because of nerf, but because of buffs to other stuff)

 Mr Morden wrote:
Nope no Sisters because we are just doing plastic models
But what about these resins
Well not just plastics but ones that have options
Lictor?
-oh yeah those ones without options? Well we figured you wanted them and F Sisters and the others.
and the fact that conversions are hardly needed as its seems to be basic layout.

Hey look! It's a Sisters player complaining about... wait, everything after "player" is redundant, so I won't finish that sentence.

Sisters not being included is completely logical. They're not about to put a ruleset for a faction in the core book that will be completely outdated in a year's time. We have no clue what options Sisters are going to get (probably bolters, probably flamers, and that's about it) and they could change dramatically between now and then what with their whole model line being completely redone.

And as this appears to be a product that they want to have legs (rather than a one-and-done like Shadow War), they're not going to put such a limited shelf-life set of rules in the core book.

On the other hand, the Lictor is the same Lictor we've had for a decade (or more?). It ain't changing. No reason not to include it.

This release is looking... poorly though-out so far. So many wonky decisions.

No Inquisition because metal is harder to convert so feth everyone with experience converting metal and those that don't mind simply assembling and painting them.

But wait- Lictors are in, because they make sense.

But Mandrakes? Ogryns or anyone with a jump pack? Nah.

Single-player boxes? Awesome! But wait- they're single-unit starters (all intercessors, all burnas, etc.) and bundled with a little terrain because feth those players that want an affordable game at a lower price point from GW. And the rules are separate, of course. (Really, they could have followed Wyrd with this one and made the rules-only digital copy free, but hardcopies with lore and rules available for under $50 to make it easier for people to get into. It's, what, $100 for the rulebook and one of the single-player boxes? Still a bit steep for new players who don't own any GW stuff.)

 Irbis wrote:

Yup, it's Phil Kelly all right

To expand on the above, it's not just that he has some models with odd or old loadouts. Everyone does. The problem is, he played some games on WC before and almost all of these lists had errors, omissions, wrong gear/models/points that as far as I could tell, did not correspond to older editions and were just a result of sloppy rule reading. I don't think he posted even one list that was entirely correct even going as far back as 4th edition - just stuck me as bizarre as other players on 40K twitch somehow managed to make legal (if often very badly choosen) lists almost all the time, even with completely new armies...

So, yeah, after third or fourth list full of mistakes I lost faith Kelly actually know the rules, and that is before considering he decided to first write borderline OP 6th edition eldar, then, after 3 years of feedback, decided that was not enough cheese and actually buffed the army across the board, with only one tiny nerf to the worst offender (which ceased to be the best not even because of nerf, but because of buffs to other stuff)

Why do you insist on attacking Phil Kelly all the time? He has not been a rules writer for many years. He has absolutely nothing to do with the rules of Killteam or anything in 8th edition. Even the stuff you are angry with him about is not true
He was not the lead rules writer on the 7th edition Eldar book. James Hewitt explained that the most broken rules were a result of upper management pressure.

Chikout wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

Yup, it's Phil Kelly all right

To expand on the above, it's not just that he has some models with odd or old loadouts. Everyone does. The problem is, he played some games on WC before and almost all of these lists had errors, omissions, wrong gear/models/points that as far as I could tell, did not correspond to older editions and were just a result of sloppy rule reading. I don't think he posted even one list that was entirely correct even going as far back as 4th edition - just stuck me as bizarre as other players on 40K twitch somehow managed to make legal (if often very badly choosen) lists almost all the time, even with completely new armies...

So, yeah, after third or fourth list full of mistakes I lost faith Kelly actually know the rules, and that is before considering he decided to first write borderline OP 6th edition eldar, then, after 3 years of feedback, decided that was not enough cheese and actually buffed the army across the board, with only one tiny nerf to the worst offender (which ceased to be the best not even because of nerf, but because of buffs to other stuff)

Why do you insist on attacking Phil Kelly all the time? He has not been a rules writer for many years. He has absolutely nothing to do with the rules of Killteam or anything in 8th edition. Even the stuff you are angry with him about is not true
He was not the lead rules writer on the 7th edition Eldar book. James Hewitt explained that the most broken rules were a result of upper management pressure.

He was lead writer on 4th edition Eldar, and that was also broken.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
He was lead writer on 4th edition Eldar, and that was also broken.

Yeah but he doesn't write rules anymore. Problem solved.

4th Ed? I forget. Did we have electricity back in the days of 4th Ed? That was a while ago.

Blastaar wrote:
But wait- Lictors are in, because they make sense.

Well... they do.

Blastaar wrote:
But Mandrakes? Ogryns or anyone with a jump pack? Nah.

We could still see rules for them. Probably not in the core book, but you never know.

I just want this game to have light walkers.

I imagine that we'll see some sort of new core rules for when they want to expand upon things. Like some sort of Abhuman rules for IG down the line, they just want to make things easily available enough with the starting line.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
4th Ed? I forget. Did we have electricity back in the days of 4th Ed? That was a while ago.

Blastaar wrote:
But wait- Lictors are in, because they make sense.

Well... they do.

Blastaar wrote:
But Mandrakes? Ogryns or anyone with a jump pack? Nah.

We could still see rules for them. Probably not in the core book, but you never know.

I just want this game to have light walkers.

They need to make KillTeam into RT/2nd Edition,
with fine grained vehicle and terrain rules,
and fix all the stuff that sux about 8th.
Games practically limited to maybe 1000pts
but typically played around 500 or 750.
Characters can be developed at this level,
and these characteristics can then be scaled up into
a slightly courser grained rules system
at the 2000 point level and there abouts.

Then, scale up for larger points, as grains become courser, and there you go.
A truly scalable rules set,
indeed a formalized world beginning with the rpg elements
at low entry points in terms of cost.

Just without the herohammer aspects of 2nd, where basic troops were basically worthless.

If this game is as tight balanced as claimed I understand very well the lack of specific troop choices. I tried to come up with a 40k Mordheim crossover 10 years ago and the playtesting led to cutting down a lot of stuff as well. Bikes and light walkers are really the only thing I can see coming later down the line.

Indeed, starting small and semi-contained to lay down the basics may be the best way to go, with more types of unit or equipment added over time. Though once the core rules and stats are known to us, it shouldn't be too hard to implement the missing units, or even bigger models for special scenarios a-la the previous edition, where a team is tasked with taking down a tank or a powered-down super-heavy.

Heavy infantry is certainly something I see them doing though, vehicles and bikes are a bit iffy in my eyes, seeing as the standard table format is quite cozy and in your face.

I'm just happy that bikes are not in from the get go, I've come to loathe them fiercely from previous editions of this game.

Ummm don;t get me wrong but there is a possible reason for not including bulky, loud jump packs and huge hulking abhuman's in games focusing largely on stealth operations...?

I mean weren't reivers noted for having specifically CUT DOWN LIGHTER power armour? as opposed to dropping through the sky on sheets of flame like assault marines ad precisely how often does a convent of nuns attempt an armed infiltration? and don;t inquisitors generally send disposable underling on these type of missions like, for example, specially equipped and trained imperial guardsmen?

Though to be fair the lack of mandrakes and striking scorpions on release does seem like a weird omission...

So far I'm quite happy with the choices, though I don't play every army previewed so far. They're either nice multi-part plastics, or thematic choices like Kommandos, Lictors and Rangers (who are all more expected in Kill team than e.g. Wracks, IMHO, even though those would also have made sense). We certainly have far more options already than in SW:A, which is fun. I can't wait to see the proper rules for building lists. As they have said they will continue to support the game, and certainly with Open play being a thing, I expect that eventually most if not all 40k (infantry, possibly also vehicles and big monsters) units will receive Kill Team rules.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

X078 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

How is GW terrain mandatory for Kill Team? If you’re talking about the preview article maps, those are suggested terrain setups, not mandatory.

Just my view of it but the terrain in the pictures shown so far is really specific so i wouldn't be surprised if it's the case, similar to bring only GW models to GW events etc.
Terrain has been a largely untapped source from their side so far.

In the community article with the terrain maps you can faintly make out “Create the battlefield and set up terrain. An example of how you might do this is shown below” under the Battlefield section. It’s a recommendation, not set in stone for the scenario.

Exactly. These maps are no different to the scenario maps published in every GW game for the past 30 years - right back to the ones in 3rd edition Warhammer and 1st edition 40k, and in the Lord of the Rings games. They all show scenery layouts, and none of them matter if you change things.

Apart from anything else, they're all top-down views, so you can't tell how many storeys the structures have.

If they did go down the line of saying "you can only play this scenario on exactly this layout" I can't see it being in anything except Competitive play. It goes completely against the grain of Narrative play for a start - which will be where a lot if not most of the gameplay will be, I would think.

danp164 wrote:
Ummm don;t get me wrong but there is a possible reason for not including bulky, loud jump packs and huge hulking abhuman's in games focusing largely on stealth operations...?

I mean weren't reivers noted for having specifically CUT DOWN LIGHTER power armour? as opposed to dropping through the sky on sheets of flame like assault marines ad precisely how often does a convent of nuns attempt an armed infiltration? and don;t inquisitors generally send disposable underling on these type of missions like, for example, specially equipped and trained imperial guardsmen?

Though to be fair the lack of mandrakes and striking scorpions on release does seem like a weird omission...

No, inquisitors do this sort of stuff all the time.

I'm pretty sure this game is about blasting dudes to orbit, not so much sneaky and stealth there. Deffgun loota and Boombox Infiltrator are probably not the unit for any stealth operation.

Designers decide which unit/factions they want in the game.

danp164 wrote:


I mean weren't reivers noted for having specifically CUT DOWN LIGHTER power armour? as opposed to dropping through the sky on sheets of flame like assault marines ad precisely how often does a convent of nuns attempt an armed infiltration? and don;t inquisitors generally send disposable underling on these type of missions like, for example, specially equipped and trained imperial guardsmen?

Though to be fair the lack of mandrakes and striking scorpions on release does seem like a weird omission...

Listen here, sonny boy! Sister Superior Mildred has been serving the emperor since before he could walk and is so exquisitely "old nun-like" that she can freeze enemy sentries with a dirty look! She's even been known to kill men with such a withering glare! And if that doesn't work (for those real tough bastards of the 41st millennium) she's ALWAYS got her ruler....

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Nope no Sisters because we are just doing plastic models
But what about these resins
Well not just plastics but ones that have options
Lictor?
-oh yeah those ones without options? Well we figured you wanted them and F Sisters and the others.
and the fact that conversions are hardly needed as its seems to be basic layout.

Hey look! It's a Sisters player complaining about... wait, everything after "player" is redundant, so I won't finish that sentence.

Sisters not being included is completely logical. They're not about to put a ruleset for a faction in the core book that will be completely outdated in a year's time. We have no clue what options Sisters are going to get (probably bolters, probably flamers, and that's about it) and they could change dramatically between now and then what with their whole model line being completely redone.

And as this appears to be a product that they want to have legs (rather than a one-and-done like Shadow War), they're not going to put such a limited shelf-life set of rules in the core book.

On the other hand, the Lictor is the same Lictor we've had for a decade (or more?). It ain't changing. No reason not to include it.

You might have noticed I was also asking why options shown on Guard models were not part of the game, why resin inflitarators like Mandrakes were not included but Scouts and Lictors are fine

but hey its easier to insult rather than discuss - well done.

On Sisterrs specfically - we don't know when they are coming and they are "Supposed" to be sorting out "something" for Chapter Approved - well if they can be bothered and its not replaced by something to do with Marines.

Are you really suggesting that these rules will not need huge FAQs and updates anyway over the course of a year - have you ever played a GW game?

Inquistiors are THE unit that would have been perfect for this sort of game but guess what.

I can understand people's frustrations - but I'd much rather have fewer units and a cleaner, smoother ruleset. Shadespire is great - if Matched Play Kill Team is even half as balanced as that we should have a really strong tournament scene.

Inquisition not being included is odd, but the only conclusion I can come to is that they'll get a model release through Kill Team. A few plastic acolytes and a multi-part Inquisitor in a box, to go with the Rogue Trader release. They're still lacking a Codex, after all - an Imperial Agents book with Inquisition, Rogue Traders, Sisters Of Silence and Assassins would tidy that up nicely.

Just chopped up a 22x30 pallet topper at work to act as a base for the game board, i really like the size. Looks like it'll offer the opportunity for actual tactical game play, especially once you add in some huge LOS blocking terrain.

Still need to make actualine of Sigh blocking buildings... Hiding behind a building offers services protection. It's why I always pass on the GW terrain at my LGS for the scratch built stuff when setting up a table.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Still need to make actualine of Sigh blocking buildings... Hiding behind a building offers services protection. It's why I always pass on the GW terrain at my LGS for the scratch built stuff when setting up a table.

I mean, we're talking about a game with less than 10 models per team, a coke can is LOS blocking for this game.

danp164 wrote:
Ummm don;t get me wrong but there is a possible reason for not including bulky, loud jump packs and huge hulking abhuman's in games focusing largely on stealth operations...?

I mean weren't reivers noted for having specifically CUT DOWN LIGHTER power armour? as opposed to dropping through the sky on sheets of flame like assault marines ad precisely how often does a convent of nuns attempt an armed infiltration? and don;t inquisitors generally send disposable underling on these type of missions like, for example, specially equipped and trained imperial guardsmen?

Though to be fair the lack of mandrakes and striking scorpions on release does seem like a weird omission...

I had the same idea at first, but then we are still talking about 40k killteam and not sneaky military simulator. Things like bolters, plasmaguns and melters are not that subtle either, so please let my fire up my jump pack, at least after the guy on the other side of the table has begun to fire its heavy weapon at me.
I mean, you can take bright yellow, red or purple marines for you covert ops...