[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 148 : Arena expansion, new warzone and new models

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**Red_Five**

Cephalobeard wrote:
Really hoping we get information on what the Cards do within the new kill team boxes. I want the expanded AM rules, but I don't much care for Scions.

Yeah the Tyranid and IG boxes come with 2 shipping containers, rather than the tower-thing that the Wolves come with or the crane and tractor that the Orks come with.

**Crimson**

I think it is bonkers that Killteam models do not have at least the same options than their 40K equivalents have. I expected more gear customisation, not less!

**Sqorgar**

Geifer wrote:
So the dice come separate from the starters they're associated with? And in the same week that new starters are released, which then have to wait for their own dice*? That's odd.

*We are getting more than just Space Wolves and Orks, right?

Tyranid and Astra Militarium are getting them according to next week's list, and Miniature Market has Genestealer Cult dice on preorder.

**Mysterio**

Crimson wrote:
I think it is bonkers that Killteam models do not have at least the same options than their 40K equivalents have. I expected more gear customisation, not less!

Same here!

Definitely disappointed with that.

**BrookM**

I do rather miss shotguns in the Guard list.

**Cephalobeard**

BrookM wrote:
I do rather miss shotguns in the Guard list.

There's a lot about guard that's confusing. Luckily, they let me take enough bodies that I'm not lamenting too terribly.

**Kanluwen**

BrookM wrote:
I do rather miss shotguns in the Guard list.

There's a lot of things I miss from the Guard list...sadly, Kill Team is just reflective of the loss of many of those items in the main book.

**the_scotsman**

JSG wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Cephalobeard wrote:
So, hold on. Your gripe is that... special models, from a different special box set, are not compatible with the rules for another different game, a year or two after that one came out?

I'd wager, my friend, of all the things you could pester yourself to be upset about, that should not be one of them.

"special models" from the initial box set that came out with the release of the army

Yes, I would be hoping that they would bother to allow the 5 monopose Deathwatch Veterans from the DW:Overkill box set to be compatible with Kill Team. That'd have been nice. They hit the mark on 3/5

It'd also be great if they didn't make the basic loadout that was legal in Kill Team incompatible with the multi part box set. I didn't even mention the veterans that I have made out of the basic plastic kit, because they're all illegal anyway - since all the models holding boltguns are one hand carry, and the basic vet loadout in 40k is boltgun/chainsword, all my vets are either built with boltgun/chainsword or boltgun/storm shield.

I suppose you can use the Deathwatch Veterans box set to make basic Kill Team veterans by just leaving one arm off the marines.

I just knew if I mentioned that the white knight brigade would jump down my throat yelling 'hurr durr you could have seen the future and built your models in a way that was legal for kill team!"

But why would anyone in this thread care that you have to buy some new models?

In a thread about an upcoming release of a game for use with 40k models, a complaint that the game's rules do not support a large number of the possible build configurations for one of the factions but do in fact require players to build their models in a way that is impossible with the kit isn't a valid complaint?

**judgedoug**

I thought there was a separate complaint discussion thread?

**Irbis**

the_scotsman wrote:
Chaplain - illegal, even if I wanted to proxy, since I can't take bolt pistols
Librarian - illegal, even if I wanted to proxy, since I can't take bolt pistols

Proxy them as Blackshield with power maul/bolter and team leader with power sword/bolter, problem solved. DW bolters look closer to pistols than regular ones anyway, so I fail to see the problem.

the_scotsman wrote:

Guy with a Chainsword and Boltgun - illegal, no ability to take a chainsword
Guy with plasma pistol and power sword - illegal, can't take plasma pistols

Guy with chainsword also has a big knife. Just say it's a power sword, done. Ditto with the other one, just say it's really short plasma gun, suddenly legal. Yes, gear restrictions are kinda dumb but KT Cassius is entirely usable with tiny minimum of count as that is not really confusing sooo...

**Scott-S6**

The kill team rules match the multipart kit just fine in that you can actually take a gun plus power weapon which is what the kit wants you to build.

**Neronoxx**

Yeah, seems like whining for the sake of whining.

**Chairman Aeon**

BrookM wrote:
I do rather miss shotguns in the Guard list.

Serious question: Are there any shotguns on the Guard sprue?

I think most of the griping is coming from 40K players looking to downsize, while the game is probably meant as a gateway game to get into 40K...or continue to get money from people like me who will never play 40K proper again, but will never quite stop being in love with the setting.

**Mr Morden**

Neronoxx wrote:
Yeah, seems like whining for the sake of whining.

judgedoug wrote:
I thought there was a separate complaint discussion thread?

Well they are at least discussing the topic rather than just complaining about people "whining" - perhaps actually contributing to the thread instead of complainning about other posters might be more useful for us all.

One of the stated reasons for the inclusion of mostly plastic models was that they are easier to convert - fair enough but then to remove so many possible options is just pathetic.

What balance issues would have been generated by allowing say Guard models to take extra close combat weapons?

**the_scotsman**

Irbis wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Chaplain - illegal, even if I wanted to proxy, since I can't take bolt pistols
Librarian - illegal, even if I wanted to proxy, since I can't take bolt pistols

Proxy them as Blackshield with power maul/bolter and team leader with power sword/bolter, problem solved. DW bolters look closer to pistols than regular ones anyway, so I fail to see the problem.

the_scotsman wrote:

Guy with a Chainsword and Boltgun - illegal, no ability to take a chainsword
Guy with plasma pistol and power sword - illegal, can't take plasma pistols

Guy with chainsword also has a big knife. Just say it's a power sword, done. Ditto with the other one, just say it's really short plasma gun, suddenly legal. Yes, gear restrictions are kinda dumb but KT Cassius is entirely usable with tiny minimum of count as that is not really confusing sooo...

Yes, I agree that if I find an opponent who has no problem with mass proxying and counts-as, I can field all my models. I still see it was kind of an epic-level failure that I can own 10 deathwatch veterans built to the basic 40k ruleset with the options they have in the months-old Codex: Deathwatch and 7 of them require proxy/counts as to be usable in a game called Kill Team because the rule support for DW is so sparse.

**Scott-S6**

Mr Morden wrote:
Neronoxx wrote:
Yeah, seems like whining for the sake of whining.

judgedoug wrote:
I thought there was a separate complaint discussion thread?

Well they are at least discussing the topic rather than just complaining about people "whining" - perhaps actually contributing to the thread instead of complainning about other posters might be more useful for us all.

One of the stated reasons for the inclusion of mostly plastic models was that they are easier to convert - fair enough but then to remove so many possible options is just pathetic.

What balance issues would have been generated by allowing say Guard models to take extra close combat weapons?

When your complaint is "I wanted this to be a different game" I'm not sure what useful discussion there is to be had.

**Mr Morden**

Scott-S6 wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Neronoxx wrote:
Yeah, seems like whining for the sake of whining.

judgedoug wrote:
I thought there was a separate complaint discussion thread?

Well they are at least discussing the topic rather than just complaining about people "whining" - perhaps actually contributing to the thread instead of complainning about other posters might be more useful for us all.

One of the stated reasons for the inclusion of mostly plastic models was that they are easier to convert - fair enough but then to remove so many possible options is just pathetic.

What balance issues would have been generated by allowing say Guard models to take extra close combat weapons?

When your complaint is "I wanted this to be a different game" I'm not sure what useful discussion there is to be had.

No the majority fo complaints are

Why did they not include Unit X when they included unit Y
Why are they not allowing options that are in the basic unit template they are copy pasting from.
Why are they not allowing cusotmisation

**Nightlord1987**

Just decided my Ork Boyz mob Killteam. KILLER CLOWNS. Oh the horror.

**Mr Morden**

Nightlord1987 wrote:
Just decided my Ork Boyz mob Killteam. KILLER CLOWNS. Oh the horror.

There are loads of fun things you can do with orks

**the_scotsman**

Mr Morden wrote:
Scott-S6 wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Neronoxx wrote:
Yeah, seems like whining for the sake of whining.

judgedoug wrote:
I thought there was a separate complaint discussion thread?

Well they are at least discussing the topic rather than just complaining about people "whining" - perhaps actually contributing to the thread instead of complainning about other posters might be more useful for us all.

One of the stated reasons for the inclusion of mostly plastic models was that they are easier to convert - fair enough but then to remove so many possible options is just pathetic.

What balance issues would have been generated by allowing say Guard models to take extra close combat weapons?

When your complaint is "I wanted this to be a different game" I'm not sure what useful discussion there is to be had.

No the majority fo complaints are

Why did they not include Unit X when they included unit Y
Why are they not allowing options that are in the basic unit template they are copy pasting from.
Why are they not allowing cusotmisation

You forgot "if they're hard-dedicated to making the core rules identical to base 40k and sacrificing all the possibilities of rebalance that come with that, why can't I use my existing collection of 40k models for this game?"

This game has examples of options you can take that are not included in the base kits (just bolter deathwatch vets, ork nobz with Big Choppa/Kombi-weapons, Hekatrix with a PGL, Guardsmen with plasma guns/melta guns/sniper rifles) and options that you can't take that are included in the base kits (Guard sergeant with boltgun, powerfist, storm guardian with power sword, deathwatch vet with chainsword/plasma pistol/bolt pistol)

**judgedoug**

Ah the old "unrelated and conflicting opinions of two or more persons are somehow justified as being News" thread.

**Mr Morden**

the_scotsman wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Scott-S6 wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Neronoxx wrote:
Yeah, seems like whining for the sake of whining.

judgedoug wrote:
I thought there was a separate complaint discussion thread?

Well they are at least discussing the topic rather than just complaining about people "whining" - perhaps actually contributing to the thread instead of complainning about other posters might be more useful for us all.

One of the stated reasons for the inclusion of mostly plastic models was that they are easier to convert - fair enough but then to remove so many possible options is just pathetic.

What balance issues would have been generated by allowing say Guard models to take extra close combat weapons?

When your complaint is "I wanted this to be a different game" I'm not sure what useful discussion there is to be had.

No the majority fo complaints are

Why did they not include Unit X when they included unit Y
Why are they not allowing options that are in the basic unit template they are copy pasting from.
Why are they not allowing cusotmisation

You forgot "if they're hard-dedicated to making the core rules identical to base 40k and sacrificing all the possibilities of rebalance that come with that, why can't I use my existing collection of 40k models for this game?"

This game has examples of options you can take that are not included in the base kits (just bolter deathwatch vets, ork nobz with Big Choppa/Kombi-weapons, Hekatrix with a PGL, Guardsmen with plasma guns/melta guns/sniper rifles) and options that you can't take that are included in the base kits (Guard sergeant with boltgun, powerfist, storm guardian with power sword, deathwatch vet with chainsword/plasma pistol/bolt pistol)

Yeah Its probably just based on the lead writters own mini collection - you have highlighted some of the many wierd elements.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

judgedoug wrote:
Ah the old "unrelated and conflicting opinions of two or more persons are somehow justified as being News" thread.

Again - just moaning about people actually discussing the game is not somehow contriobuting to anything,

Is there a transcrpt of the twitch thingy that amonsgt other things stated Sisters don;t get anything until they get models - so 2019/ sometime never

**JSG**

the_scotsman wrote:
JSG wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Cephalobeard wrote:
So, hold on. Your gripe is that... special models, from a different special box set, are not compatible with the rules for another different game, a year or two after that one came out?

I'd wager, my friend, of all the things you could pester yourself to be upset about, that should not be one of them.

"special models" from the initial box set that came out with the release of the army

Yes, I would be hoping that they would bother to allow the 5 monopose Deathwatch Veterans from the DW:Overkill box set to be compatible with Kill Team. That'd have been nice. They hit the mark on 3/5

It'd also be great if they didn't make the basic loadout that was legal in Kill Team incompatible with the multi part box set. I didn't even mention the veterans that I have made out of the basic plastic kit, because they're all illegal anyway - since all the models holding boltguns are one hand carry, and the basic vet loadout in 40k is boltgun/chainsword, all my vets are either built with boltgun/chainsword or boltgun/storm shield.

I suppose you can use the Deathwatch Veterans box set to make basic Kill Team veterans by just leaving one arm off the marines.

I just knew if I mentioned that the white knight brigade would jump down my throat yelling 'hurr durr you could have seen the future and built your models in a way that was legal for kill team!"

But why would anyone in this thread care that you have to buy some new models?

In a thread about an upcoming release of a game for use with 40k models, a complaint that the game's rules do not support a large number of the possible build configurations for one of the factions but do in fact require players to build their models in a way that is impossible with the kit isn't a valid complaint?

You buy an intcessor squad and an upgrade sprue. Problem solved. Unless you’re complaining about not being able to use the models you already own. In which case refer to my priginal question.

**the_scotsman**

JSG wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
JSG wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Cephalobeard wrote:
So, hold on. Your gripe is that... special models, from a different special box set, are not compatible with the rules for another different game, a year or two after that one came out?

I'd wager, my friend, of all the things you could pester yourself to be upset about, that should not be one of them.

"special models" from the initial box set that came out with the release of the army

Yes, I would be hoping that they would bother to allow the 5 monopose Deathwatch Veterans from the DW:Overkill box set to be compatible with Kill Team. That'd have been nice. They hit the mark on 3/5

It'd also be great if they didn't make the basic loadout that was legal in Kill Team incompatible with the multi part box set. I didn't even mention the veterans that I have made out of the basic plastic kit, because they're all illegal anyway - since all the models holding boltguns are one hand carry, and the basic vet loadout in 40k is boltgun/chainsword, all my vets are either built with boltgun/chainsword or boltgun/storm shield.

I suppose you can use the Deathwatch Veterans box set to make basic Kill Team veterans by just leaving one arm off the marines.

I just knew if I mentioned that the white knight brigade would jump down my throat yelling 'hurr durr you could have seen the future and built your models in a way that was legal for kill team!"

But why would anyone in this thread care that you have to buy some new models?

In a thread about an upcoming release of a game for use with 40k models, a complaint that the game's rules do not support a large number of the possible build configurations for one of the factions but do in fact require players to build their models in a way that is impossible with the kit isn't a valid complaint?

You buy an intcessor squad and an upgrade sprue. Problem solved. Unless you’re complaining about not being able to use the models you already own. In which case refer to my priginal question.

The deathwatch upgrade sprue only contains shoulderpads, it does not contain a way for me to make a Deathwatch Veteran with a boltgun and no other weapon. Doing that requires me to either use one of the models from Squad Donatus (which are Special Named Characters from a TOTALLY different game system, so wanting their monopose loadouts to be supported is a ridiculous suggestion) or to get bits from other marine sprues.

If we have to give up all the customization that the units have from 40k using bits available in other kits, because the intention of this game is "you buy one box, the game supports the bits from that one box" then the basic trooper loadout should be possible to build out of that kit.

**Red_Five**

the_scotsman wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Scott-S6 wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Neronoxx wrote:
Yeah, seems like whining for the sake of whining.

judgedoug wrote:
I thought there was a separate complaint discussion thread?

Well they are at least discussing the topic rather than just complaining about people "whining" - perhaps actually contributing to the thread instead of complainning about other posters might be more useful for us all.

One of the stated reasons for the inclusion of mostly plastic models was that they are easier to convert - fair enough but then to remove so many possible options is just pathetic.

What balance issues would have been generated by allowing say Guard models to take extra close combat weapons?

When your complaint is "I wanted this to be a different game" I'm not sure what useful discussion there is to be had.

No the majority fo complaints are

Why did they not include Unit X when they included unit Y
Why are they not allowing options that are in the basic unit template they are copy pasting from.
Why are they not allowing cusotmisation

You forgot "if they're hard-dedicated to making the core rules identical to base 40k and sacrificing all the possibilities of rebalance that come with that, why can't I use my existing collection of 40k models for this game?"

This game has examples of options you can take that are not included in the base kits (just bolter deathwatch vets, ork nobz with Big Choppa/Kombi-weapons, Hekatrix with a PGL, Guardsmen with plasma guns/melta guns/sniper rifles) and options that you can't take that are included in the base kits (Guard sergeant with boltgun, powerfist, storm guardian with power sword, deathwatch vet with chainsword/plasma pistol/bolt pistol)

You must be new to Guard. The Cadian Command Squad comes with a Plasma Gun, a Melta Gun, a Flamer, a Grendade Launcher, a Sniper Rifle, a Heavy Flamer, a Bolt Pistol, a Power Fist, a Plasma Pistol, a Chain Sword, and a Power Sword. The only option you are missing is a Bolter and that is something that is super easy to buy as a bit.

You can hardly complain about Storm Guardians. They were only included because it would be weird to not include them. GW has negelcted them for what feels like a decade or more.

**Blastaar**

Scott-S6 wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Neronoxx wrote:
Yeah, seems like whining for the sake of whining.

judgedoug wrote:
I thought there was a separate complaint discussion thread?

Well they are at least discussing the topic rather than just complaining about people "whining" - perhaps actually contributing to the thread instead of complainning about other posters might be more useful for us all.

One of the stated reasons for the inclusion of mostly plastic models was that they are easier to convert - fair enough but then to remove so many possible options is just pathetic.

What balance issues would have been generated by allowing say Guard models to take extra close combat weapons?

When your complaint is "I wanted this to be a different game" I'm not sure what useful discussion there is to be had.

So the only discussion that is "useful" is vapid praise? The entire point of criticism is to communicate how something could have been done better, which includes what choices GW could have made when designing 40k Lite.

**BrookM**

From Black Library, maybe the first of a series of Kill Team themed short stories?

https://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/eshort-choke-point.html

For three weeks, the battered remnants of the Kilgannor 27th Astra Militarum have held the line against the frenzied assaults of Waaagh! Zogreb. Now, deliverance arrives in the form of Commissar Dorin and his troopers, Militarum Tempestus of the famed Delphic Lions. But survival is not enough… When the commissar drafts Lieutenant Kaseen and his surviving soldiers into a dangerous mission that could change the tide of battle, the Kilgannor troopers face victory… or death.

Also, can we please stop regurgitating the same arguments ad nauseum?

**the_scotsman**

Red_Five wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Scott-S6 wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Neronoxx wrote:
Yeah, seems like whining for the sake of whining.

judgedoug wrote:
I thought there was a separate complaint discussion thread?

Well they are at least discussing the topic rather than just complaining about people "whining" - perhaps actually contributing to the thread instead of complainning about other posters might be more useful for us all.

One of the stated reasons for the inclusion of mostly plastic models was that they are easier to convert - fair enough but then to remove so many possible options is just pathetic.

What balance issues would have been generated by allowing say Guard models to take extra close combat weapons?

When your complaint is "I wanted this to be a different game" I'm not sure what useful discussion there is to be had.

No the majority fo complaints are

Why did they not include Unit X when they included unit Y
Why are they not allowing options that are in the basic unit template they are copy pasting from.
Why are they not allowing cusotmisation

You forgot "if they're hard-dedicated to making the core rules identical to base 40k and sacrificing all the possibilities of rebalance that come with that, why can't I use my existing collection of 40k models for this game?"

This game has examples of options you can take that are not included in the base kits (just bolter deathwatch vets, ork nobz with Big Choppa/Kombi-weapons, Hekatrix with a PGL, Guardsmen with plasma guns/melta guns/sniper rifles) and options that you can't take that are included in the base kits (Guard sergeant with boltgun, powerfist, storm guardian with power sword, deathwatch vet with chainsword/plasma pistol/bolt pistol)

You must be new to Guard. The Cadian Command Squad comes with a Plasma Gun, a Melta Gun, a Flamer, a Grendade Launcher, a Sniper Rifle, a Heavy Flamer, a Bolt Pistol, a Power Fist, a Plasma Pistol, a Chain Sword, and a Power Sword. The only option you are missing is a Bolter and that is something that is super easy to buy as a bit.

You can hardly complain about Storm Guardians. They were only included because it would be weird to not include them. GW has negelcted them for what feels like a decade or more.

My original complaint was that the squad of monopose Deathwatch Veterans that came with the initial release of the Deathwatch had more models locked into loadouts that were illegal for Kill Team than loadouts that were legal.

The response to that was essentially "you want to use totally unrelated models in this game you privileged whiner, the only rules support deathwatch get is for the Deathwatch Veterans TM Multi-Part Plastic Model Kit From Games Workshop LTD and you should be glad for that!"

The options you list for guard from the Command Squad kit should not be supported in Kill Team because Cadian Command Squad TM is not Cadian Infantry Squad TM. Also, it seems strange that half the options included in the command squad (Sniper Rifle, Plasma, Melta) are available but the other half (Heavy Flamer, Bolter (if you're using Catachans), Powerfist) are not.

**Crimson**

BrookM wrote:
I do rather miss shotguns in the Guard list.

They even had a picture of a model with a shotgun in the Astra Militarum faction focus!

**Mr Morden**

Crimson wrote:
BrookM wrote:
I do rather miss shotguns in the Guard list.

They even had a picture of a model with a shotgun in the Astra Militarum faction focus!

Can you have all of these loadouts in the game?