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 wallygator wrote:
Yeah i know but it sounds alot like "pay to win" to me. Is the player who's playing with the rulebook alone the underdog vs the player who bought the box and some terrain (and has acces to the double amount of tactics). I fear a yes-answer to this...

That's assuming that the extra tactics are a requirement to winning. That is, they may be situational or advantageous, but to a good player, purely optional. However, if a player with the extra tactics is playing against a player without the tactics and wins most of the time (not 50%-60%, but 80%-90%), then it would be paying to win. I don't consider a slight advantage to be pay-to-win, since I think circumstance, ability, and chance have a far greater effect on the outcome game to game.

Personally, I'm okay with the idea that they are spreading around the tactics and scenarios. Every player not having access to every ability means that there will be more variety in the types of games that you play. You'll play different people with different armies in different killzones, using different tactics in different scenarios - it's really hard to minmax unpredictable variety. People who want to netlist the most overpowered kill teams will have a harder time when the games themselves are not static, and even then, they have to pay more for the privilege of gaining that power "for free" (that is, an increase in ability without having to grow or sacrifice to get it). And I don't think it is unreasonable to ask that the more ardent fans (the tournament players) invest a bit more in the game system. If you want to race Ferrari sports cars, maybe you shouldn't expect to pay family sedan prices for it.

the_scotsman wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
For those who missed it the first time around:

Spoiler:

Beware, some quick camera cuts and odd angles await thee.

Don't forget the ol' stare five feet off to the side of the camera pose as well. Regardless, it's a helpful video to folks following peripherally like me.

Probably old news but it looks like they've changed the turn order for the game with charges determined in the movement phase (similar to many older non-GW games). Is there much of a benefit then to assault weapons other than getting to advance and shoot? I don't play 8th edition so I don't have a current wide knowledge base to fall back on from that game about tips and tricks with assault weapons.

That's all - Assault Weapons advance and shoot, rapid fire weapons get 2 shots at half range, Heavy weapons get a -1 to hit penalty if you move (though one of the available specialities you can assign your troops mitigates this at level 1, so less of an issue in Kill Team)

Thanks. Yeah, I just wasn't sure if there was some secret back door way of still getting to shoot with assault weapons and then assault like in normal 40k (assuming that's still a thing with 8th... only played one game myself so can't recall for sure). With the turn order changed, I figured it'd be unlikely but worth asking. For Primaris marines, it sounds like the rapid fire version of their bolt weapons is the way to go then (for the extra -1 save) in most cases given the small size of Kill Team tables.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wallygator wrote:
Yeah i know but it sounds alot like "pay to win" to me. Is the player who's playing with the rulebook alone the underdog vs the player who bought the box and some terrain (and has acces to the double amount of tactics). I fear a yes-answer to this...

Realistically, the strategems are simply text and I'm sure there will be plenty of web resources out their reviewing them to reference the wording and potentially use them yourself without even resorting to piracy.

 warboss wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
For those who missed it the first time around:

Spoiler:

Beware, some quick camera cuts and odd angles await thee.

Don't forget the ol' stare five feet off to the side of the camera pose as well. Regardless, it's a helpful video to folks following peripherally like me.

Probably old news but it looks like they've changed the turn order for the game with charges determined in the movement phase (similar to many older non-GW games). Is there much of a benefit then to assault weapons other than getting to advance and shoot? I don't play 8th edition so I don't have a current wide knowledge base to fall back on from that game about tips and tricks with assault weapons.

That's all - Assault Weapons advance and shoot, rapid fire weapons get 2 shots at half range, Heavy weapons get a -1 to hit penalty if you move (though one of the available specialities you can assign your troops mitigates this at level 1, so less of an issue in Kill Team)

Thanks. Yeah, I just wasn't sure if there was some secret back door way of still getting to shoot with assault weapons and then assault like in normal 40k (assuming that's still a thing with 8th... only played one game myself so can't recall for sure). With the turn order changed, I figured it'd be unlikely but worth asking. For Primaris marines, it sounds like the rapid fire version of their bolt weapons is the way to go then (for the extra -1 save) in most cases given the small size of Kill Team tables.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wallygator wrote:
Yeah i know but it sounds alot like "pay to win" to me. Is the player who's playing with the rulebook alone the underdog vs the player who bought the box and some terrain (and has acces to the double amount of tactics). I fear a yes-answer to this...

Realistically, the strategems are simply text and I'm sure there will be plenty of web resources out their reviewing them to reference the wording and potentially use them yourself without even resorting to piracy.

No, but on the flip side, you do get to charge, then shoot the enemy in the face with your pistol, which is a nice little boost to Marines' effectiveness in combat in kill team. I'm predicting that there's going to be some initial resistance to it at first because they're so bad on the tabletop, but a Chaos marine with a chainsword and bolt pistol will be a cute little infantry blender in kill team.

But yeah theres definitely not much of a reason for 2/3 of the bolt rifle options for intercessors to exist, they're just going to be copy/paste blandos in kill team. kind of like they are in 40k

Duncan's team:

I envy the GW Teams. They genuinely seem to have fun with their silly builds and narrative setups.

I can't do it, but it makes me happy to see them get excited about it.

With the game being release this weekend and a few people that have access to the rule book I have a question about tactic cards.

So the rule book has a list of the generic ones and there is a few special ones that are in the faction box sets but not required??

You get command points every turn and can decide what tactic you are using.. so if you have one that is a re roll you and your opponent could
use that every turn as long as you meet the requirements of the card, is that right??

Just trying to understand the limitations of the cards before buying just the rule book.

 wallygator wrote:
Yeah i know but it sounds alot like "pay to win" to me. Is the player who's playing with the rulebook alone the underdog vs the player who bought the box and some terrain (and has acces to the double amount of tactics). I fear a yes-answer to this...

Or...you could buy the cards separately off eBay? They’ve already shown 3 of them from each faction, so really you’re only paying for 4 physical cards, if you must have the overpriced GW cardstock.

 Genoside07 wrote:
With the game being release this weekend and a few people that have access to the rule book I have a question about tactic cards.

So the rule book has a list of the generic ones and there is a few special ones that are in the faction box sets but not required??

You get command points every turn and can decide what tactic you are using.. so if you have one that is a re roll you and your opponent could
use that every turn as long as you meet the requirements of the card, is that right??

Just trying to understand the limitations of the cards before buying just the rule book.

The cards are nothing more than reminders. The book has some generic tactics, like what each specialist gets, and each faction has some. The boxes then contain a few extras, that your faction can use, but those are not required. If you must have them, you can get the information from the internet about a day after the release (or just by cribbing the previewed ones on your computer or a piece of paper) or buy buying the boxes.

You gain one CP every turn, plus another one if your leader is alive. The tactics aren't chosen per turn, they are used like Stratagems in 40k: when the card says it can be used, eg. in the Movement phase, when one of your guys shoots, when you are attacked...

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 wallygator wrote:
Yeah i know but it sounds alot like "pay to win" to me. Is the player who's playing with the rulebook alone the underdog vs the player who bought the box and some terrain (and has acces to the double amount of tactics). I fear a yes-answer to this...

Or...you could buy the cards separately off eBay? They’ve already shown 3 of them from each faction, so really you’re only paying for 4 physical cards, if you must have the overpriced GW cardstock.

Thats an idea i can live with

And another Studio team preview: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/26/26th-july-my-kill-team-mike-idris-thousand-sonsgw-homepage-post-1/

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I envy the GW Teams. They genuinely seem to have fun with their silly builds and narrative setups.

I can't do it, but it makes me happy to see them get excited about it.

That makes me sad. The above stuff is the only reason I stayed with 40K for so long. By the time Rogue Trader had morphed into Warhammer Second Edition GW had gotten rid of all those silly builds and narrative set ups. It had been banished to the development league of Necromunda, but seem frowned upon in 40K proper. Things like Inquisitor tried to bring that aspect back, but... Those silly builds and narrative setups are the reason I'll give GW my $$$ in hopes of recapturing a small portion of those early days of 40K before everything became rigid, boring and too grim dark for its own good.

Definitely not saying it's "the wrong kind" of fun or anything, it's just not *my* kind of fun. I'm happy for them.

I think as far as wounds go, you guys are reading way too much into it. The rule that can cause multi-wound models to make multiple injury rolls is there to balance multi-wound models in a game where most Kill Team members only have one wound. I used to play Mordheim, and I remember the most broken team being Undead. This is because Vampires had multiple wounds. If you had a single wound leader and he got taken out, it was just as likely that he would suffer permanent damage as it was that he would gain experience. They counterbalanced. But you had to work twice, or three times as hard to kill a Vampire. Towards the end of the campaign Vampires would have more skills and fewer injuries than other teams, GW probably thought about it this time and decided to include a fix so multi-wound models don't dominate the meta.

So now that we know the prices and stuff are you guys gonna buy the boxes?

I think I will make an Astra Militarum and a Genestealer Cult killteam but Im not sure its a good idea to buy the boxes. The terrain on the main box looks amazing but i don't really like the Adeptus Mechanicus miniatures. Also instead of buying the Tempestus scions box for killteam i can buy a box of tempestus scions and an IG command box.

I really dont know what to buy...

 straken619 wrote:
So now that we know the prices and stuff are you guys gonna buy the boxes?

I think I will make an Astra Militarum and a Genestealer Cult killteam but Im not sure its a good idea to buy the boxes. The terrain on the main box looks amazing but i don't really like the Adeptus Mechanicus miniatures. Also instead of buying the Tempestus scions box for killteam i can buy a box of tempestus scions and an IG command box.

I really dont know what to buy...

I'm still hesitant to go fully in until I read the rules so will probably make a half dozen or so kill teams with my existing (long unused) armies.

 straken619 wrote:
So now that we know the prices and stuff are you guys gonna buy the boxes?

I think I will make an Astra Militarum and a Genestealer Cult killteam but Im not sure its a good idea to buy the boxes. The terrain on the main box looks amazing but i don't really like the Adeptus Mechanicus miniatures. Also instead of buying the Tempestus scions box for killteam i can buy a box of tempestus scions and an IG command box.

I really dont know what to buy...

I’ll be buying the boxes, but mostly for the terrain. Models and cards are gravy for me. But then again I try to help supply my group’s terrain, and have a place to store it so my situation may be unique.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I envy the GW Teams. They genuinely seem to have fun with their silly builds and narrative setups.

I can't do it, but it makes me happy to see them get excited about it.

That makes me sad. The above stuff is the only reason I stayed with 40K for so long. By the time Rogue Trader had morphed into Warhammer Second Edition GW had gotten rid of all those silly builds and narrative set ups. It had been banished to the development league of Necromunda, but seem frowned upon in 40K proper. Things like Inquisitor tried to bring that aspect back, but... Those silly builds and narrative setups are the reason I'll give GW my $$$ in hopes of recapturing a small portion of those early days of 40K before everything became rigid, boring and too grim dark for its own good.

Plenty of us managed just fine with the whole narrative aspect, and personally I've always liked settings that had some effort behind them rather than just being jokey pastiches of popular culture and sci-fi tropes. Rogue Trader was just about tolerable back in its own day, when being into this kind of hobby was still widely considered a shameful secret and going the "haha it's all silly I'm also laughing at how stupid it is and don't care at all and am only enjoying it ironically" route was understandable but these days we can get away with something a bit better.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I envy the GW Teams. They genuinely seem to have fun with their silly builds and narrative setups.

I can't do it, but it makes me happy to see them get excited about it.

It's simple - ignore the rules when building the models. Well, not completely ignore - I'd keep in mind the lega equipment options and the like - but ignore the stats. Build the miniatures with looks and story in mind, not rules. You can see that from Duncan's video - not once does he talk about building a Deathwatch Kill-team because of the rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wallygator wrote:
Yeah i know but it sounds alot like "pay to win" to me. Is the player who's playing with the rulebook alone the underdog vs the player who bought the box and some terrain (and has acces to the double amount of tactics). I fear a yes-answer to this...

It's not been my experience in Necromunda so far.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:


Plenty of us managed just fine with the whole narrative aspect, and personally I've always liked settings that had some effort behind them rather than just being jokey pastiches of popular culture and sci-fi tropes. Rogue Trader was just about tolerable back in its own day, when being into this kind of hobby was still widely considered a shameful secret and going the "haha it's all silly I'm also laughing at how stupid it is and don't care at all and am only enjoying it ironically" route was understandable but these days we can get away with something a bit better.

I don't remember anyone enjoying Rogue Trader "ironically" at the time - that's reserved for today's hipsters who make "retro games" videos on Youtube. I liked the "kitchen sink" aspect of the setting because you can just pick the cool bits you like from some books or films and add them all in together. Once the setting reaches the point where the fanbase gets too judgemental, it does lose something.

the_scotsman wrote:



No, but on the flip side, you do get to charge, then shoot the enemy in the face with your pistol, which is a nice little boost to Marines' effectiveness in combat in kill team. I'm predicting that there's going to be some initial resistance to it at first because they're so bad on the tabletop, but a Chaos marine with a chainsword and bolt pistol will be a cute little infantry blender in kill team.

But yeah theres definitely not much of a reason for 2/3 of the bolt rifle options for intercessors to exist, they're just going to be copy/paste blandos in kill team. kind of like they are in 40k

You actually cannot charge and shoot at all, or be charged and shoot. You have to stay in combat a turn before you can fire pistols and if someone new charges you that turn you still can't shoot

Charging happens in the movement phase which precedes the Shooting phase. Unless some rule specifies you can't even shoot Pistols when you charge, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to? Pistol's whole shtick is to be able to fire when you're within 1" of an enemy model.

Pistols are pretty bad in KT, especially the one that cost point. I hope they make rule allow pistol to be used in CC (1 shot, use fist for the the rest of the attack)

So hanging out at the local FLGS one of the guys said that the Rogue Trader Box set will introduce new unit
types..Plus different types of heroes. Like inquisitors and more detailed psykers. of course more Kill zones..
I am sure a space ship will be it ; you can tell that by the pictures..

Then later on another box set will have light vehicles in it.. Don't know if he was just blowing smoke or
knew something..Anyone else hearing anything this??

 Genoside07 wrote:
So hanging out at the local FLGS one of the guys said that the Rogue Trader Box set will introduce new unit
types..Plus different types of heroes. Like inquisitors and more detailed psykers. of course more Kill zones..
I am sure a space ship will be it ; you can tell that by the pictures..

Then later on another box set will have light vehicles in it.. Don't know if he was just blowing smoke or
knew something..Anyone else hearing anything this??

Someone said they wanted to add light vehicles to Necromunda for the ash wastes, Gorkamorka is also going to turn up at some point too as they committed to rerelease of the specialist games.

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
Charging happens in the movement phase which precedes the Shooting phase. Unless some rule specifies you can't even shoot Pistols when you charge, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to? Pistol's whole shtick is to be able to fire when you're within 1" of an enemy model.

In the charge rules it explicitly states you cannot fire any weapons if you attempt a charge. In the pistol rules it explicitly states if you were charged you cannot fire it that turn. Gotta wait a round of combat to shoot your side piece sorry

 Genoside07 wrote:
So hanging out at the local FLGS one of the guys said that the Rogue Trader Box set will introduce new unit
types..Plus different types of heroes. Like inquisitors and more detailed psykers. of course more Kill zones..
I am sure a space ship will be it ; you can tell that by the pictures..

Then later on another box set will have light vehicles in it.. Don't know if he was just blowing smoke or
knew something..Anyone else hearing anything this??

Hope it's true. At the present state, the game seems to be much too shallow and restrictive for it to be enjoyable imo.

 warboss wrote:
I'm still hesitant to go fully in until I read the rules so will probably make a half dozen or so kill teams with my existing (long unused) armies.

Plan right now is to check out the game and see how many KTs I can do with stuff I already own, which probably will be stuff from about everything but necrons, gtey knights and 1kSons, and maybe tyranids, as I only have stealers and like half a dozen gaunts.

After that, we'll see.

 straken619 wrote:
So now that we know the prices and stuff are you guys gonna buy the boxes?

I think I will make an Astra Militarum and a Genestealer Cult killteam but Im not sure its a good idea to buy the boxes. The terrain on the main box looks amazing but i don't really like the Adeptus Mechanicus miniatures. Also instead of buying the Tempestus scions box for killteam i can buy a box of tempestus scions and an IG command box.

I really dont know what to buy...

I"m getting the ork box because I play orks in 40k but have no burnas/lootas yet (praying they get better once codex drops). I also want to see what the box is actually like before I make any final decisions. It probably helps that I am trading the terrain that comes with it for the Genestealer cult force from the main box. Really I am getting 2 forces for one box price.

 Insurgency Walker wrote:
Someone said they wanted to add light vehicles to Necromunda for the ash wastes, Gorkamorka is also going to turn up at some point too as they committed to rerelease of the specialist games.

I don't think they ever said they were going to re-release every single specialist game ever made. I would be seriously surprised to see a re-make of Gorkamorka seeing as it didn't perform too well the first time around. Light vehicles for an ash-wastes setting I can see, after all they've already set up the Orlocks as biker gangs that ride the wastes between hive cities. But I think we're more likely to see Man'o'war and Warmaster before we ever see Gorkamorka (and I seriously doubt we're likely to see either of those ever again either).

 Genoside07 wrote:
So hanging out at the local FLGS one of the guys said that the Rogue Trader Box set will introduce new unit
types..Plus different types of heroes. Like inquisitors and more detailed psykers. of course more Kill zones..
I am sure a space ship will be it ; you can tell that by the pictures..

Then later on another box set will have light vehicles in it.. Don't know if he was just blowing smoke or
knew something..Anyone else hearing anything this??

The game developer on the chat seemed very discouraging to the idea of vehicles ever being a part of it. So, probably smoke.

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Genoside07 wrote:
So hanging out at the local FLGS one of the guys said that the Rogue Trader Box set will introduce new unit
types..Plus different types of heroes. Like inquisitors and more detailed psykers. of course more Kill zones..
I am sure a space ship will be it ; you can tell that by the pictures..

Then later on another box set will have light vehicles in it.. Don't know if he was just blowing smoke or
knew something..Anyone else hearing anything this??

Hope it's true. At the present state, the game seems to be much too shallow and restrictive for it to be enjoyable imo.

yi

Shallow is the new design paradigm at GW.